Poll

How would you rate psycotic Symphony on a scale from 1 to 10?

10 (highest)
8 (3.4%)
9
13 (5.6%)
8
23 (9.9%)
7
43 (18.5%)
6
33 (14.2%)
5
32 (13.8%)
4
24 (10.3%)
3
14 (6%)
2
7 (3%)
1 (lowest)
7 (3%)
0. Their online behaviour ruined it (won't listen)
28 (12.1%)

Total Members Voted: 229

Author Topic: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)  (Read 469389 times)

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Offline Lowdz

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1785 on: October 30, 2017, 06:52:30 AM »
This is the song that made me love JSS's voice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlN4shUCGc

Which is why I can not get how he sounded the way he did in Labyrinth.

That is an awesome performance, as was the Queen convention gig 15 years or so ago. The band posted a link to the YouTube video of it (which is a bit dodgy as it is commercially available but I guess Jeff must have given the go ahead).
I think he has lost a bit of sparkle from his voice but he’s been at it years so it’s inevitable. He’s certainly still a fine singer.

Offline ariich

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1786 on: October 30, 2017, 07:22:41 AM »
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Not sure what's supposed to be wrong with that bit. Seems to fit the mood well.

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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1787 on: October 30, 2017, 07:30:11 AM »
As others have noted, it sounds like he's straining; go a note or two higher and his voice will break. Sounds like me singing in my car: muy mal.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1788 on: October 30, 2017, 07:36:12 AM »
Sure, but that fragility fits the mood of those opening bars pretty well to my ears. I'd never thought anything of it, and still don't. Fair enough if people aren't keen on it, I guess, just from the comments I was expecting bad singing.

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Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1789 on: October 30, 2017, 07:59:08 AM »
Ok, have had this for a few days now so my early verdict is that it is a lot better than I was expecting especially after seeing some 3/10 ratings and below on here.  They seem very, very harsh but clearly everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I was not keen on the first 2 singles released, they weren't terrible but nothing especially exciting either.  Was also not excited about the line up apart from Portnoy/Sherinian (I refuse to call them the Del Fuvio Brothers!).  Not a massive fan of Sherinian in DT but have always loved his lead tone which is almost as cool as lead guitar (intro into LITS is one of the great keyboard moments of all time imo).  Was less of a fan of some of his in song playing though and FII is one of the patchier albums for me even if it does have some great songs on it.  When I say I was not a fan of the line up, this should not be taken as a slight on Jeff Scott Soto who I have been a huge fan of in his days with Yngwie Malmsteen and Axel Rudi Pell, I even enjoyed his Soul Sirkus album with Neal Schon but I just assumed his voice would be shot by now and also felt that he was not heavily involved in the songwriting for most of the projects I listened to so was unsure what he'd add.

Lost in Oblivion was the first single that got me a little more excited as Soto sounded great on the chorus which I also thought was catchy and melodic.

Listed to the album initially on Apple Music and and God Of The Sun just sounded great (apart from the instrumental section) classic DS intro and riff and, when Soto kicked in on the chorus, it was like welcoming an old friend back, been so long since I'd heard him and I fell in love with his voice again.  Don't understand the criticism on here for Soto, I really think he elevates these songs immensely especially in the choruses.  I do accept that his vocals sound rough at the beginning of Labyrinth and they should not really be on the record in that form for me but, apart from that, he sounds great considering he's been around since the early-mid 80's.  Like I said wasn't initially keen on the chugga chugga instrumental section but it has grown on me to the extent that it doesn't detract from the song anymore.

The two singles that follow remain just ok, don't feel the need to skip them but they are nothing special imo, I do enjoy Ron Thal's soloing in Signs of the Time though.  Labyrinth took a while for me as no real huge hooky chorus to hang on to and it just seemed to be all over the place.  I have gradually come to really appreciate it though and it's now a highlight of the album.

Alive is a decent radio friendly rocker which should really have been the single for me ahead of Coming Home, much more crafted and accomplished for me.  Really enjoy Lost In Oblivion and Divine Addiction is just great, love the Purple sound and the chrorus could have been pulled from Soto's time in Yngwie/Axel.  He would have killed this chorus even more in his pomp.

Still struggling to come to terms with Opus Maximus although I like bits of it.  Compare this though with something from LTE and it is not even in the same league.

Overall I would give this around 8 out of 10.  It's not perfect by any means and not on the level of DT (this would be DT's worst album if it was by DT).  I do agree that the songs are not as meticulously crafted as DT in that the songs don't flow as well from section to section but there's a lot to like for me and I am not an MP fanboy (JP fanboy all the way!).  I really don't see this as 2 or 3 out of 10 if you are a fan of DT.

Some of the "banter" has been over the top, childish and unseemly but, in some ways, Derek is entitled to be bitter about the way DT treated him, it's more surprising though as he has never acted like this previously since he was fired, so why now?.  MP's part in it is less surprising considering how he acts in general and more disappointing considering how thin skinned he is himself to any criticism.  It does seem silly strategy though to take a group of fans who you'd think would be biased towards this band and excited to hear them as they have two former members of DT and turn them against you.  If DT fans are biased against a prog metal band featuring Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian then MP/DS have got something badly wrong!

Hope these guys can stick it out and we then have two decent prog metal bands releasing music.

On a side note this is head and shoulders above any of Mike's other post DT bands imo (I don't include TA and NM in this as these were in existence prior to him leaving DT)

Offline bosk1

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1790 on: October 30, 2017, 07:59:57 AM »
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Not sure what's supposed to be wrong with that bit. Seems to fit the mood well.
Same here.  I wasn't sure what we were supposed to be objecting to before Kattelox posted it.  And now that I do, my reaction is basically:
Sure, but that fragility fits the mood of those opening bars pretty well to my ears. I'd never thought anything of it, and still don't. Fair enough if people aren't keen on it, I guess, just from the comments I was expecting bad singing.
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1791 on: October 30, 2017, 08:11:04 AM »
I do think it's bad singing - it made me cringe when I heard it. As Kattelox said, I expect this from myself when singing in the car. Not something that should be on the final product.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1792 on: October 30, 2017, 08:15:14 AM »
EDIT: Nope, biting tongue...  :biggrin:
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1793 on: October 30, 2017, 08:15:57 AM »
It very much IS MP's new "permanent band". He's said so many times.

But then again, so did he with Adrenaline Mob and Winery Dogs, so...

Even if this is Mike's new "permanent band", Derek's prime commitment is surely to Black Country Communion, and Billy's must be to Mr Big. So SoA can only ever be active when those two bands' schedules de-conflict. And I have no idea what other commitments Bumble and Soto have...
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #1794 on: October 30, 2017, 08:27:36 AM »
Rush has better ones.....(and also worse ones.)

My opinion only, but better ones:




Worse ones:


Offline bill1971

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1795 on: October 30, 2017, 08:36:46 AM »
It very much IS MP's new "permanent band". He's said so many times.





































But then again, so did he with Adrenaline Mob and Winery Dogs, so...










and Dream Theater.....

Offline bosk1

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1796 on: October 30, 2017, 08:43:24 AM »
I do think it's bad singing - it made me cringe when I heard it.

You might want to get that cringe reflex looked at.  I think it might be broken.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1797 on: October 30, 2017, 08:46:31 AM »
I do think it's bad singing - it made me cringe when I heard it. As Kattelox said, I expect this from myself when singing in the car. Not something that should be on the final product.
Sounds like to me like an artistic choice. If they wanted "strong" vocals in that section they could have easily done that, as evidenced all over the album. It's very obviously intentional.

Whether you like or not is a different question, obviously, and you're absolutely entitled not to like that approach or delivery or whatever.

You might want to get that cringe reflex looked at.  I think it might be broken.
Also this.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 09:03:00 AM by ariich »

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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1798 on: October 30, 2017, 08:50:27 AM »
Well, yeah, it's intentional, doesn't mean it sucks any less. This guy sang Journey, Queen, Malmsteen and made it look effortless. What the fuck happened here?
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1799 on: October 30, 2017, 09:00:38 AM »
Enough people have commented on that part, including a huge fan of JSS, that I'm quite comfortable not getting anything checked out. Appreciate the concern though.

Offline Schurftkut

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1800 on: October 30, 2017, 09:02:46 AM »
dunno if you guys watched those EVH youtube interviews? all the bandmembers are doing them, Billy sheehan was talking about the winery dogs being his favourite band to be in.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #1801 on: October 30, 2017, 09:47:56 AM »




cool, but why'd you include a picture of the Golden Girls?

Offline bosk1

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #1802 on: October 30, 2017, 09:52:58 AM »
:rollin
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1803 on: October 30, 2017, 09:58:19 AM »
The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.
Not sure what's supposed to be wrong with that bit. Seems to fit the mood well.
Same here.  I wasn't sure what we were supposed to be objecting to before Kattelox posted it.  And now that I do, my reaction is basically:
Sure, but that fragility fits the mood of those opening bars pretty well to my ears. I'd never thought anything of it, and still don't. Fair enough if people aren't keen on it, I guess, just from the comments I was expecting bad singing.

The problem for me is that I have heard Jeff Scott Soto do "fragile" many times before and this is not how he does fragile. It's precisely why I used his version of Save Me as an example. The first stanza of that song is Soto's "fragile" style of singing. You'll hear from it how he goes from falsetto to bursts of power to gentle vocals with full emotions without sounding like his voice would break.

In his upcoming solo album, JSS has another great example for his fragile emotional style of singing. His song for his brother who recently passed away:

Song for Joey

That is how Jeff Scott Soto does "fragile" and whether I am boxing him to a certain style or not, I'm pretty sure that his track record shows that how the first part of Labyrinth was sung was not how a JSS fan would expect him to sing.

Anyway, I think some of you might have a blast watching this recent Youtube upload of JSS in a jam with Ron Thal. Great chemistry between the two:

Somebody to Love

Purple Rain

Holy shit, where is this Jeff Scott Soto in the SoA record?

Jeff lost a lot of his range but wow, that beautiful tone is still there. And his falsetto does not falter, unlike that freaking Labyrinth intro that's like an anomaly in the JSS playbook.

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1804 on: October 30, 2017, 10:10:37 AM »
Yea, this isn't a problem with the idea of doing soft or fragile vocals at all. It's 100% the execution. He sounded bad (to many of us). Whether he was trying to sound vulnerable is not relevant. It took me (and many others) out of the moment and that is a bad sign.

Glad you and others like it, but it seems a bunch of us were a bit thrown off by it.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1805 on: October 30, 2017, 10:43:31 AM »
I recall your 'proof' about JLB being debunked - just because you posted it doesn't mean you're off the hook. You posted something about what JLB said, and then I personally even refuted it showing that he didn't say what you said he did. I remember telling you to read the article, because you put words in JLB's mouth, the "quotes" you quoted were things he didn't even say. So, again: consistency, Stadler, that is what you have harped on about repeatedly, so please follow that. :)

"He didn't say what you said he did" was "happy" versus "not sad".   If you're REALLY going to call saying "happy" versus "not sad" as "out of context" and an "outright lie" - quoting Madman Shepard directly, so there's no confusion here - well, that kind of makes my point that there is no discussing this.  At least there is SOME basis (Webster) for using "happy" and "not sad" interchangeably ("happy" and "sad" are listed as "antonyms" on the online version https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy); certainly a more factual basis than that used for calling Derek and Mike names and virtually guessing at what they're feeling and what their motives are. 

And for Madman Shepard:  I don't know how to link to tweets, but on September 11, Derek tweeted (and I cut and pasted this, so any errors are typographical and not an effort to take out of context or outright lie):  "Chops are great to have as a musician, but if you don't have metal and rock in your DNA, you are a fucking pussy".   Then some schmoe responded: "Oh, Derek. You're going to have the DTF forumers' knickers in a twist again with that one 😁" and Derek retweeted that.   Not any of the other ones defending Jordan, or calling bullcrap or any of that.  The one he retweets - which to my knowledge is a way of acknowledging the original as correct or positive or worthy of others' to see it - is the one that notes that he is playing to THIS SPECIFIC forum and its tendency to over-react.   

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1806 on: October 30, 2017, 10:49:48 AM »
Anyway, I think some of you might have a blast watching this recent Youtube upload of JSS in a jam with Ron Thal. Great chemistry between the two:

Somebody to Love

Purple Rain

Holy shit, where is this Jeff Scott Soto in the SoA record?


I agree.   That would have added a ton to my appreciation of this record, and brought it out of the sort of "same-iness" I talked about.   It doesn't have to be full on Steve Perry (or Freddie Mercury), but some variation and color.    Or maybe use the rest of the band for harmonies.   Just not the generic rock scream.

By the way, the "Purple Rain" link is worth it alone for the cut to the audience singing and it sounds as if there are six other, unrelated, songs being sung other than Purple Rain.  :) 

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1807 on: October 30, 2017, 10:50:58 AM »
I recall your 'proof' about JLB being debunked - just because you posted it doesn't mean you're off the hook. You posted something about what JLB said, and then I personally even refuted it showing that he didn't say what you said he did. I remember telling you to read the article, because you put words in JLB's mouth, the "quotes" you quoted were things he didn't even say. So, again: consistency, Stadler, that is what you have harped on about repeatedly, so please follow that. :)

"He didn't say what you said he did" was "happy" versus "not sad".   If you're REALLY going to call saying "happy" versus "not sad" as "out of context" and an "outright lie" - quoting Madman Shepard directly, so there's no confusion here - well, that kind of makes my point that there is no discussing this.  At least there is SOME basis (Webster) for using "happy" and "not sad" interchangeably ("happy" and "sad" are listed as "antonyms" on the online version https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy); certainly a more factual basis than that used for calling Derek and Mike names and virtually guessing at what they're feeling and what their motives are. 

I'm not arguing this again, you can go back and read the discussion. You offered up a link and you quoted JLB, except if you actually read the very article you shared, JLB did not say what you said he did. You've gone from 'quoting' JLB to now offering up a possible interpretation of a broad descriptor. I know how this went down and I'm not interested in arguing semantics. You quoted JLB and he did not say what you said he did, so please stop acting like I'm wrongly calling you out on that. You're a lawyer, you know well enough that you need to be specific and if you quote something it should be accurate. Let's discuss it in PM if you want to continue, my friend.
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Offline nobloodyname

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1808 on: October 30, 2017, 10:52:16 AM »
Then some schmoe responded: "Oh, Derek. You're going to have the DTF forumers' knickers in a twist again with that one 😁" and Derek retweeted that.   

Oi. I am not "some schmoe", I'll have you know, son :lol
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1809 on: October 30, 2017, 11:07:35 AM »
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1810 on: October 30, 2017, 11:30:32 AM »
 :corn
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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1811 on: October 30, 2017, 11:34:44 AM »
Then some schmoe responded: "Oh, Derek. You're going to have the DTF forumers' knickers in a twist again with that one 😁" and Derek retweeted that.   

Oi. I am not "some schmoe", I'll have you know, son :lol

Haha, well played.  :)   :)   :)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1812 on: October 30, 2017, 11:58:37 AM »
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.   

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1813 on: October 30, 2017, 12:00:00 PM »
Hey, do we know to what degree JSS made his own choices, and to what degree Derek "conducted" him?  I remember reading early on that Mike was "in charge" of this, but that Derek was handling a lot of the recording in LA, and I seem to recall "vocals" falling in that category.  Derek also wrote most of the lyrics, so that would lend itself to that scenario.

What do we know? 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1814 on: October 30, 2017, 12:10:58 PM »
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.   

Not at all.  Your citation of a secondary source was turned out to objectively misrepresent what the primary source actually said.  Reviewing what was said, there is no fair or reasonable interpretation that fits your characterization.  Others pointed that out back when you made your original post.  It isn't about bias or redefining words to fit our bias.  It's about looking at what was actually said in context.  There really isn't much room for different interpretation.

Hey, do we know to what degree JSS made his own choices, and to what degree Derek "conducted" him?  I remember reading early on that Mike was "in charge" of this, but that Derek was handling a lot of the recording in LA, and I seem to recall "vocals" falling in that category.  Derek also wrote most of the lyrics, so that would lend itself to that scenario.

What do we know? 

The only thing I am aware of is basically what you said, coupled with a short snippet of footage where Derek is coaching JSS while JSS is recording.  It really isn't much to go on as far as drawing firm conclusions one way or the other. 
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1815 on: October 30, 2017, 12:17:20 PM »
Maybe that part was one that JSS and DS had an exchange over.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1816 on: October 30, 2017, 12:43:31 PM »
Not at all.  Your citation of a secondary source was turned out to objectively misrepresent what the primary source actually said.  Reviewing what was said, there is no fair or reasonable interpretation that fits your characterization.  Others pointed that out back when you made your original post.  It isn't about bias or redefining words to fit our bias.  It's about looking at what was actually said in context.  There really isn't much room for different interpretation.

Agree to disagree.  Respectfully.   I'm dropping this, unless and until another post accuses me of being a liar. 

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1817 on: October 30, 2017, 12:53:06 PM »
No one called you a liar. Misrepresentation =/= lie.
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Offline Lethean

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1818 on: October 30, 2017, 01:12:38 PM »
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

How are you getting any of that from what I said? I'm not redefining anything. There's a difference in meaning from "I'm glad Portnoy is gone" and the way JL answered the question in that interview.  On top of that, the interviewer clarified it and then JL himself did. And MP eventually acknowledged he was wrong. So no one is redefining anything.

As for Derek, if he was being misinterpreted somehow, he's had ample opportunity to come out and clarify and apologize. He hasn't done so, and with a lot of his comments you really don't even have to read between the lines. Because someone is joking doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't still rude.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Verdict on: Sons of Apollo - Psycotic Symphony
« Reply #1819 on: October 30, 2017, 01:31:51 PM »
No one called you a liar. Misrepresentation =/= lie.
Stadler, I have to say I was really surprised when I came here to see how far you go to defend MP.  I remember that whole "not sad" incident very well, and it was not a case of JL saying he was "happy" MP was gone. It's true that happy and sad are opposites, but this situation was not a case of not sad equaling happy Mike was gone. The interviewer basically asked "are you sad James?" and he said no he wasn't because he was looking forward to the future. When the whole thing went down on the MP forum, if I recall correctly, the interviewer himself came in to clarify and encourage everyone to listen to the whole thing because neither JL or the interview in general was disrespectful to MP.  And MP himself eventually acknowledged that he was "tricked" by Blabbermouth.

As for DS retweeting that comment about DTF - what is that proof of? It's proof of nothing.  It doesn't even say or imply that he's joking. Maybe he just retweeted it because he likes stirring shit.

No more than "#noapps" is definitely a scathing, personal attack on Jordan Rudess.   I'm less "defending Mike" than I am stepping up for fair assessment.   We have take Mike and Derek literally at their word, with no outside reference (including where Mike said he talks to the guys - three of them - regularly at this point), but when James says "not sad", we have to redefine words in a way that fits our argument, and extrapolate other sources to find ways so that he wasn't talking smack about Mike.   

It is just readily apparent to me that as long as it's negative, we can interpret subjectively the way we want and it's above ridicule, and when it's positive, it's akin to defending Harvey Weinstein's moral character.

How are you getting any of that from what I said? I'm not redefining anything. There's a difference in meaning from "I'm glad Portnoy is gone" and the way JL answered the question in that interview.  On top of that, the interviewer clarified it and then JL himself did. And MP eventually acknowledged he was wrong. So no one is redefining anything.

As for Derek, if he was being misinterpreted somehow, he's had ample opportunity to come out and clarify and apologize. He hasn't done so, and with a lot of his comments you really don't even have to read between the lines. Because someone is joking doesn't mean that what they are saying isn't still rude.

I consider you guys my buds.  Can you please let it go?  I said my peace.  I respectfully disagree.    It's getting uncomfortable; not because I feel I'm wrong or that I can't prove my point, but because to do so I'll be repeating myself, and I've already been admonished for that.  I don't want a ban, and I don't want to alienate (any further) anyone else here.