Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Orbert]

What are you guys listening to?  I click on the jpg, and all I get is a bigger jpg, no audio.

[MirrorMask]

What are you guys listening to?  I click on the jpg, and all I get is a bigger jpg, no audio.

I assume they go looking for places where music can be found. They're not listening through the link, which is indeed a jpg.

[TAC]

Orbert is working my side of the street.

[noxon]

Such horrible misspellings on that sheet..

Anyways, it was apparent when it was leaked that it was Derek doing it. The reason for him doing it was also apparent: he felt like he deserved some praise for SFAM as several ideas were reused in that CD. The Demo version leaked was cut short to include most of the stuff DT reused - making it more apparent what Derek had participated on. THe actual demo version that Mike released on the FII demos was 21 minutes long.

[gzarruk]

Anyways, it was apparent when it was leaked that it was Derek doing it. The reason for him doing it was also apparent: he felt like he deserved some praise for SFAM as several ideas were reused in that CD. The Demo version leaked was cut short to include most of the stuff DT reused - making it more apparent what Derek had participated on. THe actual demo version that Mike released on the FII demos was 21 minutes long.

This.

Also, I find they removed all "Derekisms" from the song on SFAM, so I don't think any of his contributions to it ended up being used on the final version.

Btw, I'm so glad they didn't get to release this on FII, because we got the mighty SFAM from it 

[MirrorMask]

Btw, I'm so glad they didn't get to release this on FII, because we got the mighty SFAM from it 

Yeah, the bittersweet irony of it all: through all the torment and frustations they went through for the FII sessions, the outcome was one of their acclaimed masterpieces. Had they had free reins at the time, we'd have "just" gotten Metropolis pt.2 as a long song (and a quirky version of Burning My Soul stopping in the middle for a completely different instrumental break  )

[Madman Shepherd]

Btw, I'm so glad they didn't get to release this on FII, because we got the mighty SFAM from it 

Yeah, the bittersweet irony of it all: through all the torment and frustations they went through for the FII sessions, the outcome was one of their acclaimed masterpieces. Had they had free reins at the time, we'd have "just" gotten Metropolis pt.2 as a long song (and a quirky version of Burning My Soul stopping in the middle for a completely different instrumental break  )

I agree with you for the most part except that I don't think the majority of people view it as their acclaimed masterpiece.  For a long time that album was panned by most DT fans I knew and on message boards, mailing lists, etc.  People have been more kind over time.

In fact, when I finally got the FII demos I was shocked at how underwhelming they were.  People who had got the Cleaning Out the Closet CD raved about how much better they were than the actual album.  Perhaps they were just caught up in the emotion of hearing Portnoy trash the album so much. 

[KevShmev]

I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece.

And I agree about the FII demos.  Every single one of those songs that ended up on FII is better on the album than on the demo.

[Mosh]

Yup. I love that the demos are available and there's some good stuff, but this was a case of outside influences being right. Those changes needed to happen. There are still some major missteps on the album but that's more because the band was creatively lost than outside meddling.

I do wish Raise the Knife made it on the album though. If they included that and got rid of You Not Me, Burning My Soul, and Just Let Me Breathe the album would've improved a ton.

[MirrorMask]

I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece.

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

[Ben_Jamin]

Take Away My Pain was best when they performed it live with the demo feel and studio chorus. Thats how the song should have been on the record. It really captures the emotion in the lyrics.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I wasnīt there of course, but I think that their dissatisfaction with FII has less to do with record company interference than they think/are ready to admit. JP has said recently that the album came out as they intended to. I think they lost a majnor creative force when KM left, and had a hard time to adjust to the new state of things when Derek joined. Creatively, I think their musical horizons expanded in all sorts of different directions, and they wanted to reinvent themselves instead of releasing another Awake or I&W and staying in their comfort zone. As is the case with any shift in direction, thereīs a period of adjustment, and that might have led to some frustration, of course. I honestly didnīt enjoy the album when it came out, but 21 years later, I appreciate it for what it is, and itīs one of their albums I listen to the most.

[MirrorMask]

Well, the record company had its say in many of the songs. Petrucci was more willing and open to the idea of accepting suggestions, Portnoy was strongly against it. But I agree that that's the kind of music they wanted to do at the time, it's not that FII is all commercial, pop-like songs and the demos are insane prog heavy metal in the vein of Awake. That was the style nevertheless. And I have to say I agree with most of the decisions imposed on them - Hollow Years is better with the bridge streamlined, Burning My Soul flows better without half of Hell's Kitchen stuck in the middle, even You Not Me, for what it is, is catchier the way it's on the album.

And again, another good outcome out of a seemingly bad situation - having to split Hell's Kitchen from Burning My Soul made them write that brilliant ending section, that would tie in to Lines in the Sand.

[KevShmev]

What is interesting is that time period is the one where the shorter rocking/metal songs were probably the weakest of the lot.

Longer, proggy tunes all great: Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears and Raise the Knife
Slow songs/ballads all very good/great: Take Away My Pain, Anna Lee, Hollow Years and Speak to Me
Short rockers/metal tunes all...okay/mediocre: Just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul, Cover My Eyes (rocking demo version pretty mediocre vs the much better live acoustic version) and You Not Me

That's the funny thing: if we condense FII down to the best 78-79 minutes from those sessions, it would be mostly longer, proggy tunes and slow songs, plus Peruvian Skies (which is much slow and rocking), with no "normal length" rockers.  It would be kind of a strange album from that standpoint.

[Mosh]

That's kind of the album's problem. They were a prog Metal band playing and hanging out with other Metal bands (watch the footage from 5 Years In a LIVEtime). I think there was internal resistance to the mellower/prog rock approach to much of the album and they came up with some really mediocre Metal songs to balance it out. Those songs ended up sounding incredibly forced.

[Madman Shepherd]

I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece.

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course. 

[gzarruk]

I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece.

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DT has never released a bad album. However, I think FII and BC&SL are two of their most disappointing (for DT standards), but if we compare them to other bands' albums, they're way better, in most cases.

[Madman Shepherd]

I think Mirror Mask was alluding to Scenes being their acclaimed masterpiece.

Indeed, I probably didn't word it clearly but I meant that after the trials and tribulations of FII, the following album (the outcome of such frustation and desire to do things on their own terms) produced SFAM, aka their acclaimed masterpiece.

Ah, I wasn't paying attention to what you quoted. That makes sense and indeed SFAM is their acclaimed masterpiece. 

I have noticed a lot of people being far too kind to FII.  I mean, its a great album both creatively and sonicly but when I first got into DT after SFAM a lot of the old school fans were like, "Thank god they didn't release another FII."  Then again, DT fans have a reputation for being all over the map so I guess it's par for the course.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DT has never released a bad album. However, I think FII and BC&SL are two of their most disappointing (for DT standards), but if we compare them to other bands' albums, they're way better, in most cases.

I would agree except I would say FII is not disappointing.  Of course, I became a fan after the release so I wasn't able to feel the initial disappointment some felt.  I would actually put BC&SL in with The Astonishing for disappointment. 

[ytserush]

IMHO, this is the only way 50-60 year old guys should do band pics.



 

This has got to be the best band photo I've ever seen. 

Rush has better ones.....(and also worse ones.)

[KevShmev]

I would agree except I would say FII is not disappointing.  Of course, I became a fan after the release so I wasn't able to feel the initial disappointment some felt.  I would actually put BC&SL in with The Astonishing for disappointment.

I was a fan at the time of FII's release, and while I knew it wasn't as good as the prior two records, I still like it a lot.

As a fan since 1993, the only DT album that I was initially disappointed with as a whole was Train of Thought (which ironically I now prefer to the three albums that came after it).

[jakepriest]

I think I'd actually enjoy this album quite a bit if it was instrumental. I can't stand this type of vocals, be it JSS or Allens.

[Stadler]

Can I get a TLDR on DS's behvariour? What happened there? I tuned out after I heard the first song - not my cup of tea.

99% of the times he was tweeting about the band, he was using hashtag to antagonize and mock DT: #noipads, #nocheesyvocals, #nodroidbullshit etc etc, every post essentially 9 times out of 10 was a stab at DT, his entire hype campaign was based on the concept "We're not doing what those losers in DT are doing".

Or, if you're of a different opinion, just having some fun and poking fun at his old band and the inevitable comparisons between the two. 

He never once called them "losers" or anything like that, and he at one point acknowledged that it was all a joke and poking fun.   

Where did he do that?

Not sure, but I'm also not sure it matters.

Yeah.
1.  He didn't (as far as I've seen, anyway).  But:
2.  As you said, it doesn't really matter.

There was a tweet, I'm guessing about two weeks ago, and it might have been technically from Mike, but it referred to the joking about their former band. 

All water under the bridge when referring to the music, though, I agree.

What a fantastic argument you made there, very solid!

1. "Derek acknowledged that it was all a joke"
2. Don't post proof
3. Actually Derek didn't post the tweet, it was Mike.
4. It doesn't matter anyway.

If it doesn't matter, and you're not going to post proof, and you agree that your original claim was false anyway, and someone else posted this tweet... then why bother contradicting the original person at all?

Listen, stop with the "posting proof" stuff.  I put about ten links to things about two months ago (regarding the relationship between LaBrie and Portnoy) and the reaction was either a) I was told I was "being one note" and harping on stuff that didn't need to be repeated again, or b) it was mostly ignored by the person I was debating with.  So don't play that.  You can search Twatter just as easily as I can, and in fact probable easier, since I don't follow a ton of Twitter stuff.  The comments are also discussed enough here that it's not like I'm revealing lost JFK assassination documents.    It's a simple google.   

As for "Mike's tweet" versus "Derek's tweet", you can't have it both ways.  Either Mike's in charge of the band, and so he's guilty of Derek's sins too - but in which case, his defenses count too - or he's not, and they don't.  The consensus here is "it's his band", it's "the Del Fuvio brothers", not just Derek, and so I'm okay with using Mike's tweet to clarify Derek's intent.   

[Stadler]

Don't mind Stadler.  He's a good guy, but he is, by his own admission, part of "Team Mike" and will usually spin just about anything so that it reflects positively on Portnoy. It's almost a running joke at this point, and he never lets us down. 

That sounds like you're talking about the doddering old uncle that sits at the window watching the sunrise, then moves over to the TV to watch Dr. Phil.    Yeah, Team Mike, but not delusionally so.  I don't like everything he does - I HATE Amob, and Sons of Apollo is dangerously close to Amob for me, I'm not really all that thrilled about the "87 bands" (I think it dilutes things too much), and I'm pretty pissed off about the forum stuff (and not just because I posted there, but because of the message it sends).    I'm just willing to see both sides, and acknowledge that both sides might have elements of truth to them.   

[The Walrus]

I recall your 'proof' about JLB being debunked - just because you posted it doesn't mean you're off the hook. You posted something about what JLB said, and then I personally even refuted it showing that he didn't say what you said he did. I remember telling you to read the article, because you put words in JLB's mouth, the "quotes" you quoted were things he didn't even say. So, again: consistency, Stadler, that is what you have harped on about repeatedly, so please follow that.

[majo]

Mike doesn't refer to them as jokes, either. He knows exactly what people are talking about, and he either calls it "Del Fuvian bravado" or "Sherinianisms."

And, most recently, 'Shitstirinian'. Because stirring shit on the internet is hilarious...

...until it gets sent back to you, in which case you close down your forum, delete comments from Facebook, trash a 'rival' (in his mind) forum, and bemoan the hurtful "poisonous negativity" on the internet and plaintively ask why we all can't just get along and be civil to each other.

bulls-eye 

[Madman Shepherd]

Stadler, if google is so easy to use, why don't you just use it. 

Like Kattelox said, the last time you did post "proof" of something you said, the headline was not only out of context, it bordered on an outright lie. 

Honestly, you seem like a decent enough dude but I don't understand why this is your hill to die on. 

[Anguyen92]

For anyone that cares on how many copies of albums they sold in the debut week in the states, this is usually the site I check on first week.

https://hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart

They are not even listed in the top 50, but Trivium, whose new album was out in the same week, sold about 16.5k physical copies (which is basically on par with what they have been selling in the first week of their album releases this decade).

This link which includes streaming services, Sons of Apollo were not on it as well. 

https://hitsdailydouble.com/sales_plus_streaming

Maybe not the greatest start in hopes of creating a second album, but maybe the live shows can bring some goodwill towards this band having a good future.

[Madman Shepherd]

For anyone that cares on how many copies of albums they sold in the debut week in the states, this is usually the site I check on first week.

https://hitsdailydouble.com/building_album_chart

They are not even listed in the top 50, but Trivium, whose new album was out in the same week, sold about 16.5k physical copies (which is basically on par with what they have been selling in the first week of their album releases this decade).

This link which includes streaming services, Sons of Apollo were not on it as well. 

https://hitsdailydouble.com/sales_plus_streaming

Maybe not the greatest start in hopes of creating a second album, but maybe the live shows can bring some goodwill towards this band having a good future.

A quick google search shows ADTOE did 40,000 it's first week to land at number 8 on the charts.  DT12 did 34,000 to land number 7 on the charts.  Sold less but charted higher basically showing the state of record sales.  Astonishing did 30,000 and landed at number 11. 

I'm not at all versed in how the record industry and popular music is doing in today's world, but I honestly expected more than 3300 physical sales or 10,000 sales including streaming. 

[axeman90210]

My reaction so far is that it's about a 6, 6.5. It's fine but certainly nothing in the realm of "reclaiming the throne". For the most part I do like JSS's vocals, they bring something different to the mix. He sounds *terrible* though at the beginning of Labyrinth, I don't know how they heard that and decided to go with it on the album. Still love the hook in the chorus of Sign of the Times.

[The Curious Orange]

Nice to see someone getting back to the music!

I gave it an 8. It's far from perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than The Astonishing. If it were MP's new "permanent band" I'd say it was too derivative of DT, but as it's clearly "yet another side project" (given that other band members have other commitments) I can forgive that. If anything, I'd say the shorter, classic rock type of tracks aren't DT enough.

JSS' vocals grew on me. He's got a Ronnie James Dio quality on the heavier stuff and a Geoff Tate quality on the more melodic stuff (In the sense that Tate has a great metal voice, and not in the sense that Tate is a total a$$hole).

Hopefully if they do a second album Sheeran and Soto will be more involved in the song writing stage.

[noxon]

It very much IS MP's new "permanent band". He's said so many times.





































But then again, so did he with Adrenaline Mob and Winery Dogs, so...

[erwinrafael]

This is the song that made me love JSS's voice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlN4shUCGc

Which is why I can not get how he sounded the way he did in Labyrinth.

[Zydar]

I'm slowly warming up to this album, actually. God Of The Sun is my favourite so far.

[ariich]

I must be missing something as I don't know what vocal bit in Labyrinth everyone is talking about. Timestamp?

[erwinrafael]

The start where he was singing gently with some falsetto notes.