Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[ariich]

Oh totally. Like I said, I haven't seen them. I generally don't read reviews anyway.

Same, the only reason I looked some up were because of this conversation.

[bill1971]

I doubt the number of albums sold will determine if another record is made. I'm guessing the turn out at the shows will be a bigger indicator of their success. Also, I'd be curious if JSS and Billy want to continue. Billy is old and has other commitments and it sounds like JSS didn't have a lot of creative freedom.

I think everyone besides Derek have a lot of other things on their plate, so I would be surprised if this is a full time project past 2018. This seems like a fun one off project.

[cramx3]

Maybe, but to me, it's MP being MP and it's hard to rate him low for doing what he does.  I guess I'll give a shot at my rankings:

1. Bumblefoot - easily the most impressive on this album and that could be due to me not being familiar so I didn't know what to expect, but he really shines here.
2. Sheehan - I've always enjoyed his playing, but I think he takes a back seat in the production and the music benefits from it.  It's not like he's not there, he is and his playing is great, but it's not in your face and it's not disrupting the sound of the album or the other instruments.  Part of me wants to put MP here, but I think that him taking the back seat is actually an advantage and he should be credited for that instead of injecting his tone all over this album.
3. Mike Portnoy - MP being MP.  Nothing new here but also still does his thing and his drums are great on the album.  If the complaint is that he isn't breaking boundaries, fine, that's fair, but it doesn't mean his drumming is bad.  It's great and it's still better than lots of other drumming I personally listen to.
4. Derek - He shines in some spots and in others he just does nothing.  Figaro's Whore is terrible.  His contributions to God of the Sun could have had him higher in this ranking but between Figaro's Whore and his mouth, he goes here.  He didn't live up to his own hype.
5. JSS - Eh, I think from reading others reviews, I am alone here.  But he isn't bad at all, but he also doesn't bring anything to the table for me.  His singing is fairly straightforward for the entire album.  I think I like his softer singing better personally like in Alive, but by the time the album is coming to an end, I feel like I am happy to have an instrumental to let the other guys do their thing vs hearing more of the same from JSS.  It doesn't help that the vocal melodies aren't that interesting either.

[bill1971]

So I want to revise my rating.

As a musical album, I'm still giving it a 5/10.

As background music to my studying? 10/10. At no point am I forced to stop studying to pay attention to a great part.

I'll keep my 6/10 for musical aspects

10/10 as a way to not spend money and not being good enough to purchase.

Your post inspired me.

[Architeuthis]

Yeah, thats what I was talking about in the other thread. I thought JSS's vocals were a little on the conservative side for this album. I don't remember him having a really shining moment where he really belts it out. The harmonies in the choruses are the highpoint. 
 Reminds me of BC&SL where JLB's vocals were good but conservative..

[bill1971]

So I was going to wait to borrow my friends copy but I couldn't resist checking out what I could find from various sources which is almost the whole album.  I am actually quite surprised.  I think the first three tracks released are by far the worst.  They complete fucked up the roll out of this album with Mike's tantrums about people guessing it was Bumblefoot, Derek's jealous sophomoric jabs, and some unexciting introductions.  They should have been bold and released God of the Sun first or Labyrinth.  Both are actually quite good.  The latter has some parts lifted from other songs though.  I noticed a very similar vocal line from Change of Seasons, the drum part half way through with the keyboards coming in is very similar to John Arch's song Relentless.  There is also a part which is pretty similar to a part of Metropolis.  All of these would be a cool nugget if Mike wasn't such a turd about the bullshit ADTOE "similarities" but I guess if it's a desperate attempt to rewrite his past....

Anyway, I think their behavior made my expectations so low that I was pleasantly surprised by the two songs I mentioned.  Also, Divine Addiction is badass.  Great riff.  Great melodies. 

Since I can change my vote, I decided to give it a five temporarily and will go back and rerate it when I can listen to these songs on an actual stereo system.  In fact, based off of the three songs I think are good, I would probably bite the bullet and buy the album if Mike could restrain himself for more than a week.  Another slam on DTF today by the way with another reference to a "bubble" and his imaginary unanimously positive responses online.   

Yes, he said this.

Mike Portnoy And honestly, that seems to be the ONLY place online with negative comments....
You should listen for yourself and make your own judgement.
There's a MUCH bigger world out there than that small little online bubble!
Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late...
Can't please em all...shame...oh well...
We're gonna have a blast with or without em!

Anyhow, I get it, he's proud of this album and in his mind the only way someone wont like it will be for personal reasons not for musical content. Someone a few posts down mentioned that rate your music didn't rate it that high. Someone else pointed out that there are some on DTF that love the album.

[cramx3]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

[SwedishGoose]

It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....

[Metro]

For me it doesn't matter what was said by MP and DS prior to this album. It certainly lowered my opinion of them as people, but it had no effect on my enjoyment of this album(or lack thereof).
It wouldn't matter if they had dropped this album out of nowhere with no promotion whatsoever. A bad album is a bad album.

[ariich]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....

FYI a 3.5 rating at RYM is actually pretty good.

[bill1971]

It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....

I didn't know it was you. Good post. I am surprised it's still there too. I completely disagree with MP. If that were the case I would not like Labyrinth so much. Also I LOVE the members of Rush as people, very classy but it does get me to like Rivendell.

[Madman Shepherd]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

[Anxiety35]

Here are my initial thoughts that I posted in the other SOA thread...

-----------------------------------------

I think it's sold, but not a release that will stand the test of time. I like how it sounds (produced, engineered). Sounds powerful. I imagine that this wold be a fun live experience in concert.

My initial thoughts.

-->MP brings nothing new in the drum department. It's the same fills and patterns he has used for years (decades even). He's good at what he does but I'd like to see him progress or bring something new to the table. However, he does play to the song which is a very valuable quality for a drummer to have.

-->JSS sounds good and he is a good singer but I'm not sure if he is the right singer for this project. Best vocal track is Divine Addiction.

-->Bumblefoot is great.

-->Sheehan is great.

-->DS brings the most color to the project. I have always loved his lead tone. He adds a lot more to the keyboard department than he did in FII. You can hear snippets of his solo work, BCC, and Planet X in this release.

As far as Figaro's Whore, I think it's meant to be an intro to Divine Addiction. Might see it that way live. Divine Addiction is the most "sounds like another band" song. Like if Deep Purple and Rainbow merged.

There were times I was thinking "this sounds like Rainbow" or "this sounds like Deep Purple" or "this has a Pink Floyd vibe" or "this sounds like Led Zeppelin" or "this sounds like Uriah Heep" and whatnot. Nothing in the music really defining the band as Sons of Apollo. The scale runs and odd time signatures are there and I like that. But I think a lot of these were thrown into the middle of songs and as a result disrupted the songs. Kinda what was happening with the last couple of DT albums with MP. Why not write a song around the odd time signatures or chord progressions? I'm not asking for a DT part 2, but prog bands have a knack for being able to do that and do it well. The guys can play and I get it.

Just write a cohesive song.

I've listened to it twice. Favorite song is God of the Sun.

6.5/10 for me.

------------------------------------------------------------

I voted 6 on this thread. My vote was solely based on the music, not the drama made by MP & DS leading up to the release. After being able to listen to it in small chunks since then, I'm getting a better feel for the music. But I am still standing behind my statement, "Just write a cohesive song." The prog parts/solos/scales just thrown into songs, albeit display impressive musicianship, lends no value to the song.

It seems that the reviews are not too favorable here in this forum. Read comments on YouTube for the Lost in Oblivion video. Quite different than here. This community is geared towards DT and is looking for something other than what SOA have delivered.

Maybe a second release in 5 years will produce a better offering.

[cramx3]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

I dont disagree with that

[The Walrus]

This "Del Fuvian" garbage is so cringe. Is he a band member or a fucking superhero?

EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook. The way he frames this place tells me a few things: he reads this thread, he cares about what is said in this thread, and he holds a big grudge against fans who aren't drooling over everything he does with their noses six inches up his backside. Newsflash, Mike: lots of DT fans don't like every DT album, either. They still went out and bought your music and saw your concerts and talked about it all with their friends. And this "Del Fuvian" schtick is embarrassing. Call a spade a spade: he talked shit about DT and JR and you sat back and let it happen. Try and explain what that was about 10 years from now when you do a one-off reunion with DT, just like you had to tell Derek 20 years after the fact that you were the one "most upset" by his departure from DT.

[gzarruk]

After quite a few listens to this album, and being disappointed with it, I wanted to make a better representation of what MP + DS are capable of doing. So, I made a playlist, the lenght of an actual album, with, in my opinion, a better selection of songs from Mike and Derek.

I think it works/flows pretty well, but maybe I should've included a couple more soft songs. What do you think?

1. Signs of the Time
2. Raise The Knife
3. Lost in Oblivion
4. Labyrinth
5. Burning My Soul
6. Hell's Kitchen
7. Lines in the Sand
8. God of The Sun
9. Trial of Tears

(78 minutes)

[Stadler]

it's like the Glimmer Twins (Mick and Keef), or the Toxic Twins (Joe and Stephen).

[Stadler]

I'm a third of the way through, and I'm in the same place I was before:   Pretty damn good music, technically strong singing, but I would have preferred for a more operatic approach to the melodies and vocals.   JSS can do it, he's an amazing singer, but I think he plays it safe.   The same "metal scream" three times in "Coming Home" is a great example.   

You know the double neck guitar (Bumble) and the double neck bass (Billy)?   He needed the vocal equivalent of that.  He needed to be able to send it to the next level and so far I haven't heard him do that. 

[bill1971]

After quite a few listens to this album, and being disappointed with it, I wanted to make a better representation of what MP + DS are capable of doing. So, I made a playlist, the lenght of an actual album, with, in my opinion, a better selection of songs from Mike and Derek.

I think it works/flows pretty well, but maybe I should've included a couple more soft songs. What do you think?

1. Signs of the Time
2. Raise The Knife
3. Lost in Oblivion
4. Labyrinth
5. Burning My Soul
6. Hell's Kitchen
7. Lines in the Sand
8. God of The Sun
9. Trial of Tears

(78 minutes)

Here is a good representation on what DS and MP can do together

Raise the Knife – 11:40
Where Are You Know? – 7:27
Take Away My Pain – 6:49
You or Me – 6:24
Anna Lee – 6:36
Burning My Soul – 8:57
The Way It Used to Be – 7:47
Lines in the Sand – 13:32
CD 2
Just Let Me Breathe – 5:24
Peruvian Skies – 6:47
Trial of Tears – 12:54
Cover My Eyes – 3:23
Hollow Years – 6:26
New Millennium – 8:19
Speak to Me – 6:25
Labyrinth

[pcs90]

While we're on the subject of what Derek can do, I found this video last night. Wish he'd do more like this. For all his talk about soul and emotion I rarely hear it, but this is perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-aruQIdV0

[ariich]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

Huh? Where did I ignore that?

[Madman Shepherd]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

Huh? Where did I ignore that?

See previously quoted post.

[The Silent Cody]

5th listen today, and it's still 5 of 10 for mems. Though I truly enjoy God Of The Sun, especially Derek's solo. My another favourites are Alive, than Sign Of The Times. Then long is nothing, and Labyrinth. Other songs doesn't catch my ear. My opinion isn't driven with any tweets or comments from anybody, it's driven with my love to music. To sum it up, I will definitly go back to mentioned tracks and I'm looking forward for the next album. Guys definitly got to take some more time for writing, not only one week.

[rumborak]

EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook.

Actually, somebody (MP?) is virtually hovering over the SoA page and deletes any post that isn't 100% praise.

[ariich]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

Huh? Where did I ignore that?

See previously quoted post.

The existence of strong negative reactions, and the fact that the overall response has been more negative than elsewhere, does not imply in any way an absence of positive reactions. Not sure why you inferred that from my post, but for clarity: that's not at all what I was saying.

[The Walrus]

EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook.

Actually, somebody (MP?) is virtually hovering over the SoA page and deletes any post that isn't 100% praise.

I believe it. I've seen several literally disappear on his own page while I was reading it, both this week and a few weeks ago (when he blocked me) - not surprised it happens on SoA

[Madman Shepherd]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

This is also the only place that has discussed it in this much detail. There has also been quite a positive reaction including from some of MP and DS's biggest critics so I don't know why you or Portnoy for that matter are ignoring that.

Huh? Where did I ignore that?

See previously quoted post.

The existence of strong negative reactions, and the fact that the overall response has been more negative than elsewhere, does not imply in any way an absence of positive reactions. Not sure why you inferred that from my post, but for clarity: that's not at all what I was saying.

Yet you only focus on the negative thus ignoring the positive.

EDIT: This isn't the only place online with lukewarm reactions. I see them on various sites online. YouTube even has them. Facebook has them, literally on Mike's own Facebook.

Actually, somebody (MP?) is virtually hovering over the SoA page and deletes any post that isn't 100% praise.

I believe it. I've seen several literally disappear on his own page while I was reading it, both this week and a few weeks ago (when he blocked me) - not surprised it happens on SoA

Blocking people with negative yet constructive views? Did somebody say bubble?

[?]

Was this a tweet today?  I am curious to find it.  I do think he has some points though, not the "bubble" but the "Just seems to be a lot of prejudice over there between my history with them and now Derek's DelFuvian comments of late..." I think that is true for some people.  Calling this place a bubble just seems ridiculous to me, but I don't think he's that far off with respect to some of the negative reviews here (not all).

Indeed, DTF certainly isn't a bubble, but the negative reactions to MP and DS have been off the chart here and the response to the album is more negative than pretty much anywhere else.

It was in the comments on this Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1936384026379230&id=116713035013014


My comment that was alluded to previously  in full:

Sorry to say but Rate your music has it quite low as well at 3.5 / 5 and there are quite a few lukewarm reviews around. So DTF is definitely not the only place online with negative comments.

Surpriced it's still there....

FYI a 3.5 rating at RYM is actually pretty good.

It is, but there are only 64 ratings at the moment, which is not that much. Even on other sites like Sputnikmusic and Progarchives there are only a dozen ratings or so, which shows that the interest in this band is not that high outside the core DT fanbase.

[kaos2900]

The fact the core audience for this would be primarily DT fans makes the fact that MP and DS talked so much shit about DT even more ridiculous.

[bl5150]

The fact the core audience for this would be primarily DT fans makes the fact that MP and DS talked so much shit about DT even more ridiculous.

yup

[mikeyd23]

The fact the core audience for this would be primarily DT fans makes the fact that MP and DS talked so much shit about DT even more ridiculous.

yup

Yup yup

[Mladen]

I think there are a lot of people who were always aware of Dream Theater (individual members too) and liked them for their metal, in-your-face songs, but were never huge fans in general. Those people are getting hooked on Sons of Apollo, from what I can see in my circle of friends and acquaintances.

[The Walrus]

I think there are a lot of people who were always aware of Dream Theater (individual members too) and liked them for their metal, in-your-face songs, but were never huge fans in general. Those people are getting hooked on Sons of Apollo, from what I can see in my circle of friends and acquaintances.

That's my best friend, his favorite MP moments are actually in Dark Eternal Night, that's one of his all-time favorite DT songs - but he thinks SoA is pretty awful

[ariich]

I do find the banter strategy (assuming it's a strategy) a bit strange. I can only guess that they figure there are enough people who are disillusioned with DT (e.g. who were particularly disappointed) and so they're specifically targeting them, even at the expense of others. I would have thought in general it's better to try and spread your appeal as wide as possible. There are definitely cases where getting high levels of interest from a small niche is better in terms of sales, gigs, etc. then moderate interest from everyone, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

[MirrorMask]

The idea to draw attention from disappointed DT fans is just fine. The execution was quite bad however.