Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[ariich]

So it's apparently possible to change your vote. But how do we do that, please? There doesn't seem to be any option to do so (same for a couple of others, I think).

It wasn't possible before, but I've edited the poll to allow users to change their votes. Under the poll, hit the "Remove vote" button and you can re-vote.

[SwedishGoose]

So it's apparently possible to change your vote. But how do we do that, please? There doesn't seem to be any option to do so (same for a couple of others, I think).

It wasn't possible before, but I've edited the poll to allow users to change their votes. Under the poll, hit the "Remove vote" button and you can re-vote.

Thanks.... It was possible until I added the zero option I think.
Could not see the option then...

[kaos2900]

I went with 0.

[Adami]

So all musicians (who write) are great song writers?

By your definition, if we're not allowed to say that the writing is bad, then you guys can't say the writing is good. If all we can say is we don't like it, then all you can is that you do like it.

Seems like a pretty boring discussion.

[The Silent Cody]

C'mon, God Of The Sun is a very good song, it deserves more than 0 just by presence of this track.
 

[mikeyd23]

I went with a 5. For me, a 5 is a super average, forgettable album. Which is what this album was for me.

[cramx3]

C'mon, God Of The Sun is a very good song, it deserves more than 0 just by presence of this track.
 

Well I guess 0 means you didn't actually listen to that song, or any song.  But I think I could say the same for anyone giving it a 1.  Like, as much as someone dislikes something, how is it that bad that it gets a 1?  To me, that's like trolling the poll.  I feel like getting a 1 is harder than getting a 10.

[nobloodyname]

Why not say why you think someone is a poor song writer? Add some colour to the discussion.

[gmillerdrake]

Finished a second listen to the album and it's a very safe bet to say I won't actively seek out and listen to another one of those songs ever again. Too much good music out there to waste time on music that does nothing for me. It'd be beating a dead horse for me to rip on these tracks individually so I won't.....I just hope that The Neal Morse band doesn't suffer a long hiatus because Mike's on and adventure with this silly project.

[The Walrus]

I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...

[Skeever]

Yeah, giving it a 1 is a little extreme. But if 5/10 or 6/10 is "average", I could easily score this below that. This is, at best, no more interesting than the year's run of the mill prog/rock releases.

[SwedishGoose]

C'mon, God Of The Sun is a very good song, it deserves more than 0 just by presence of this track.
 

Zero is a special case... it's for those who won't even listen as the online shenanigans of DS and MP ruined it for them

[Adami]

Yeah, giving it a 1 is a little extreme. But if 5/10 or 6/10 is "average", I could easily score this below that. This is, at best, no more interesting than the year's run of the mill prog/rock releases.

Yea, I scored it 5/10 because I found it very much below average. So I guess some people might look at our poll and think that most DTFers liked the album to some degree and that only a few people didn't, which I don't think is accurate.

[ZKX-2099]

I feel it's a high 7. But the lack of a full on slow ballady song bumped it to an 8.

Good fun. Will be listening to it a lot.

[bosk1]

I was up in the mountains with my boys since Wednesday night of last week, and once we got back, I had a tough time actually tracking down a physical copy of the album in my local record shops, so I am a bit late getting this album. 

My reaction after one listen (and in the middle of my second):  Wow.  I like this a lot more than I was expecting.  Part of that is due to the fact that the album seems to have gotten somewhat of a lukewarm response from more if its "built-in" fanbase than probably expected.  Part of it is Derek's and Mike's online conduct souring some fans on the album before we even got to hear it.  And part of it is simply that, while the album has many moments that may not be what fans like me were expecting, it's just a flat-out good album. 

God of the Sun is an interesting choice to start off the album.  It is a risky choice for several reasons.  It opens with a sitar and keyboard intro that are reminiscent of both Home and Lines in the Sand.  It tries very hard to be an epic album opener.  And that alone is a risky move.  Is it epic or is it cliché?  I'm not really sure.  Perhaps a bit of both.  But I think it mostly works.  And as the song progresses, I find myself asking that same question several times, whether it be in connection with the instrumental section, the abrupt transitions between disparate segments of the song, or other things.  But I keep arriving back at the same answer:  maybe a bit of both, but I think it mostly works.

For those that heard the two promo tracks (can we even really call songs "singles" anymore?), we are in familiar territory for the next two songs.  I liked both of them initially anyway, but it was nice to get to crank them on a good system and really hear them.  But I was also anxious to get past them and really see what the album had to offer that I hadn't heard yet.  And, to me, the big payoff on this album was yet to arrive.

Labrynth REALLY had some cool moments, and I felt like the album was really starting to hit its stride with this song.  I think those expecting big, "proggy" epics should feel like their needs were catered to with God of the Sun and Labrynth.  And I was staring to feel at this point in the album that, despite it maybe feeling a bit clichéd at the outset, there was definitely sufficient variety and depth to give this album its own identity and credibility rather than it simply being sort of a "progressive metal-by-numbers" album, as some fans feared it would be.  But it is really the three more "straightforward" tracks that came next, Alive, Lost in Oblivion, and Divine Addiction, where the album really takes off for me.  Prior to that, although I was liking the album, one thing that I felt was a bit lacking was a dearth of fun, memorable riffs.  These last few songs bring that, as well as melody, hooks, and just fun songwriting.  Divine Addiction in particular, with its obvious nods to Deep Purple, is incredibly catchy and is a cool "false ending" to the album before wrapping it up with the big instrumental.

As far as the individual member playing and contributions, I think everybody does a pretty solid job.  There are definitely times when I feel like Derek's keyboards are too upfront and flamboyant.  But, hey, it's prog metal.  Really, I feel like each member brings something good to the table and does a nice job on this album.  There is a lot of variety here, and each one of the guys shows he is more than capable of doing a fine job of being bombastic, subtle, or whatever else the music requires of him in the moment.

Overall, I think this is a pretty strong debut.  There is definitely room to improve.  And as these guys spend time touring and writing more together, I fully expect that they will become tighter and more cohesive.  But this is a solid album, and I am pretty happy with it.  Initial impression:  8/10

[erwinrafael]

Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.

I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.

Or maybe they write more coherent tunes when they do more straightforward rock than prog, so they should stick to that.

Alive still in constant rotation in my playlist.

[bosk1]

I liked the two promo tracks.  I thought they were "very good," but perhaps not great.  From what I had read, I assumed there was a SEVERE dropoff from those two tracks.  That, and Mike's and Derek's online behavior, had me expecting this to be a "low 7" or a 6.  After two listens, I give it a solid 8/10 and am pretty happy with it.  Full review here:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50945.msg2369087#msg2369087

Overall, this exceeded expectations for me.  It's a shame that Mike and Derek shot themselves in the foot by pissing of a segment of their built-in fanbase who either won't give this a chance or whose opinions will be tainted because of the way those two have acted in the lead-up to the album's release.  Really bad move on their parts.

[bosk1]

Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.

I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.

Or maybe they write more coherent tunes when they do more straightforward rock than prog, so they should stick to that.

Alive still in constant rotation in my playlist.

Alive is great.  I agree that the more "straightforward" songs are where these guys shine.  But the less conventional songs are still pretty solid and provide a nice variety on the album, IMO.  I'm glad they didn't put themselves in a particular box and just stick to one main type of song structure.

I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...

I get what you are saying, Kattelox.  Good post.

[faizoff]

I need to take a break from this album. My very initial rating was 8/10 and now it's probably 3/10. I can't remember the last album that I felt such an oscillating feeling towards. I'll shelve it for sometime and come back to it later.

I don't think I have any issues with the first 3 tracks, it's the songs after that which I have to listen to in a certain mood to enjoy. Really weird vibe.

[Nick]

Unfortunately I'm only two listens in, but I have to say my overall opinion is positive.

Couple of things, it's not many of the things they claimed it to be, which is just poor on their end, but that doesn't effect what the product is, just how people judge it going into it. It's not revolutionary, and yet it's still enjoyable. It is hard rock prog, it does sound at times like Rainbow, etc, but I think it's a pretty solid effort. Not contending for album of the year, but I look forward to future listens.

[bosk1]

Unfortunately I'm only two listens in, but I have to say my overall opinion is positive.

Couple of things, it's not many of the things they claimed it to be, which is just poor on their end, but that doesn't effect what the product is, just how people judge it going into it. It's not revolutionary, and yet it's still enjoyable. It is hard rock prog, it does sound at times like Rainbow, etc, but I think it's a pretty solid effort. Not contending for album of the year, but I look forward to future listens.

I agree with most all of that.  One of my few caveats is that, for me, it is an album of the year contender.  But that is just as much a factor of this being a weak year for new releases as it is a factor of it being a good album.

[MirrorMask]

Funny thing: the first time Labyrinth started, I was unsure if it was the song, or the Spotify commercial 

[devieira73]

Reading all the discussion about SoA, MP and Derek tweets etc and for those who thinks that we can evaluate a CD (or anything) isolating another aspects surround the music (or any matter), I remembered about a book and I strongly recomend to anyone to read, "Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior" by Leonard Mlodinow. And, yes, maybe despite all MP and Derek's misbehaves, I still like the guys very much and I'm giving a 9 to the album because of that (also)!

[cramx3]

Unfortunately I'm only two listens in, but I have to say my overall opinion is positive.

Couple of things, it's not many of the things they claimed it to be, which is just poor on their end, but that doesn't effect what the product is, just how people judge it going into it. It's not revolutionary, and yet it's still enjoyable. It is hard rock prog, it does sound at times like Rainbow, etc, but I think it's a pretty solid effort. Not contending for album of the year, but I look forward to future listens.

I agree with most all of that.  One of my few caveats is that, for me, it is an album of the year contender.  But that is just as much a factor of this being a weak year for new releases as it is a factor of it being a good album.

Yea I feel the same, gave it a 7.  It's solid for what it is and once you get passed expectations and judge it for what it is, it's really a decent album.  I can't get into JSS though, for me, that's hurting this from being better, he's not bad or anything, but doesn't add anything to the music.  However, I do think there's lots of room for improvement on the next album.  These guys spending significant time together touring may bring out more cohesive writing on the next album.  I guess besides the vocals, my number 2 let down was the songs just aren't coherent enough.  There's so much potential but it really feels like it was rushed and not enough time spend ironing out ideas and making them better and catchier.

[Lowdz]

Hopefully for album number two they spend more time writing for it. GotS is the strongest track and that’s one Derek brought pretty much finished. There’s a lesson to be learned there.

Still, I’ve played it half a dozen times already and still really like it. Going to have to buy it as JSS, Billy and Bumble deserve my money.

It’s certainly up there for aoty for me.

[Mladen]

While I did enjoy the weekend I spent with this album, Psychotic symphony does leave me thinking that there's a certain spark missing in the songwriting department. There are some truly great melodies and hooks throughout (Sign of the time, Alive, Labyrinth), but there wasn't a single song that I loved in its entirety. Sometimes the virtuostic instrumental bits sound underwhelming to me and I would have liked some of the songs better had the instrumentals been trimmed down. The closer does feature some fantastic themes, though, and there's plenty to like about the opener as well.

But still, overall, there wasn't even that one track that really blew my mind. Hopefully the album does generate enough excitement in the prog community so that we get another release by these guys - they can certainly improve on their next album.

[The Walrus]

No mercy on your bleeding soul... steal mah soul

[Lowdz]

Billy wrote in Alive and Dvine Addiction, the songs that had the most coherence.

Billy should write more.

I think it's probably more relevant to the fact that those are the most classic hard rock in style, rather than the coherence.

Or maybe they write more coherent tunes when they do more straightforward rock than prog, so they should stick to that.

Alive still in constant rotation in my playlist.

Alive is great.  I agree that the more "straightforward" songs are where these guys shine.  But the less conventional songs are still pretty solid and provide a nice variety on the album, IMO.  I'm glad they didn't put themselves in a particular box and just stick to one main type of song structure.

I take the 'not a songwriter' thing as... well, not literally 'can't write a song' but rather 'aren't known for writing earworms or memorable tunes.' Technical chops and flashy songs, sure, all of these guys are known for their technical prowess. But that doesn't translate to good songwriting or even good playing on record. Outside of Derek and Mike I can't tell you a single song Soto, Sheehan, or Bumblefoot are known for. Same with Derek - Lines in the Sand, okay, but that's not that big of a DT tune, and his solo stuff? Can't tell you a single 'hit' or 'definitive Sherinian solo song' and I even own two of his albums. Can't make a fair call on Mike because I own so much of his work and know every DT song, but I'd wager not many non-DT fans know exactly which songs Mike Portnoy himself wrote. Because he writes lyrics, he's not a composer.

So I don't take it literally, but rather, they're not known for writing, they're known for their skills on their given instrument. EDIT: Ugh that was a mess of a post, hope that makes sense. Need... coffee...

I get what you are saying, Kattelox.  Good post.

JSS was in a band called Talisman that has a high ear worm quotient. He can write a melody.

[mikeyd23]

Funny thing: the first time Labyrinth started, I was unsure if it was the song, or the Spotify commercial 

  I did the same!

[emtee]

I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

[Mosh]

So Coming Home is the first Portnoy lyric contribution since leaving DT?

[Adami]

I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

None of this stuff plays well on radio. The style would work on a station that played music from the 90s but they don’t really break new bands. This band isn’t going to catch a big break from radio. Though it their live shows are as fun and entertaining as I think they might be, maybe they can get some good opening spots on a tour and get some fans that way.

[Adami]

So Coming Home is the first Portnoy lyric contribution since leaving DT?

He sang a song on the first FC album. I assume he wrote the lyrics to that.

[emtee]

I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

None of this stuff plays well on radio. The style would work on a station that played music from the 90s but they don’t really break new bands. This band isn’t going to catch a big break from radio. Though it their live shows are as fun and entertaining as I think they might be, maybe they can get some good opening spots on a tour and get some fans that way.

I guess our ears differ  because it sounds on a level playing field with such bands as Volbeat, Five Finger Death Punch, Disturbed,
etc. You've got double bass, heaviness, catchy hooks with a decent chorus and a vocalist that doesn't sing with a high register.
Any of their songs that get edited down to radio length would work just fine IMO. It's the kind of heavy rock that is more universally
liked than our little proggy world here. I think you could even throw Nickelback into the mix of bands whose fans would
like this music.

[cramx3]

I don't love it but I like it. I think they have the potential to make a really great album and maybe this was a warm up.

One thing I will say is this kind of music fares pretty well on FM rock radio. They might get lucky and have one of these songs
catch on like PMU did and if that happens they may get to another level quickly. In this regard they may have played their
cards right. Time will tell.

None of this stuff plays well on radio. The style would work on a station that played music from the 90s but they don’t really break new bands. This band isn’t going to catch a big break from radio. Though it their live shows are as fun and entertaining as I think they might be, maybe they can get some good opening spots on a tour and get some fans that way.

Yea, radio near me doesn't play this music.  This day and age, the music needs to go viral on youtube or something.  Catching that radio break just seems unlikely for this music.