Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[Sycsa]

Yeah that's what they're saying.  Nothings been announced yet.

They're headlining a prog festival called "Be prog! My friend" next June in Spain (or maybe by that time it will be independent Catalonia).

[MirrorMask]

Well, to be honest, I don't see something terribly wrong with what he said. Sure, he may come off as egoistical, but I see nothing but blunt honest truth in what he said. That's his way of seeing things, and of course we can disagree about it with him, but for the way he's used to work, he sees being in control of a band as less of a burden than being in yet another situation where there have to be compromises on everything.

So if that works for him, good for him I guess, then of course I can see why people would frown upon this. And I don't see him bragging about DT too much either, it was the way it was in the end, he's not saying false things or that we didn't know anyway.

[erwinrafael]

So he had creative control of Dream Theater?

This contrasts with JR's candid claim in TA interviews that the crediting of JP and JR as main songwriters was reflective of how it actually has been since he joined the band.

[Madman Shepherd]

I thought the headline for the article might have been overblown and taken out of context tto but that's certainly no the case.

This is absolutely mine and Derek's band. We essentially put it together and produced the album and he and I are kinda doing this as partners, with the understanding that I am the leader, to be honest. I don't want to sound brash, but it's the truth. When Derek approached me about doing this last year [he said] 'Let's finally do it and get a singer and turn it into a real band.' I was like 'Look, I already have FLYING COLORS, METAL ALLEGIANCE, THE NEAL MORSE BAND, THE WINERY DOGS. I can't handle another band where I have to get a thousand e-mails every morning from everybody making a decision.' So I said to him, 'If I do another band, it has to be the way I ran DREAM THEATER. It has to be the same dynamic. I have to have creative control. I have to be able to call the shots, make decisions on my own and everybody's got to trust me and my direction as a leader.' And Derek was like 'Absolutely. We'll be partners in terms of business and in terms of producing the album,' but beyond that, it's the way it was in DREAM THEATER where I'm [calling] the shots and I'm in control. I just had to have that to be able to move forward with this band. Everybody is cool with it and understands it and supports that."

 

This band is going to last a long long time.    So let me get this straight, Mike has too much on his plate, so for him to be in with this band he has to take on the full responsibility and take on a bigger workload for the runnings of the band.  He has to have full control, because it wouldn't be possbile to split responsibilies because talking to the other bandmates and answering emails everyday about business decisions is just too much.  Right Mike, wake up to yourself.

Derek: Hey Mike, I think we should start a proper prog metal band with a kickass singer.  We can call it Sons of Apollo.
Mike: Hey Derek, what a great idea, I'm glad I thought of it

It's interesting that he says it's his and Derek's band and that they call the shots except when they don't and he gets to call the shots.

[MirrorMask]

So he had creative control of Dream Theater?

This contrasts with JR's candid claim in TA interviews that the crediting of JP and JR as main songwriters was reflective of how it actually has been since he joined the band.

Probably he was more an orchestrator of the direction; even if he didn't actually compose the music with an instrument in his hands, maybe he was saying stuff like Give me a heavy piece, try a slow piece, how about we make this section a little more intense, like, dunno, dadedudida, "ah you mean like this?" "Exactly!", and so on.

[King Postwhore]

Watch the TOT doc with them in the studio.  He definitely was.

[devieira73]

So he had creative control of Dream Theater?

This contrasts with JR's candid claim in TA interviews that the crediting of JP and JR as main songwriters was reflective of how it actually has been since he joined the band.

Probably he was more an orchestrator of the direction; even if he didn't actually compose the music with an instrument in his hands, maybe he was saying stuff like Give me a heavy piece, try a slow piece, how about we make this section a little more intense, like, dunno, dadedudida, "ah you mean like this?" "Exactly!", and so on.

For sure. In interviews even Jordan refered to Mike as a "musical director" of the band a lot of times. So there's no contradiction neither arrogance from MP on this at all.

[DT2003]

EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him. 

[DT2003]

I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

With the exception of Adrenaline Mob, I don't feel that anything Mike has released since he left DT could be considered lackluster.  His work with Neal Morse/NMB, Flying Colors, and Transatlantic is top notch IMO. 

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

[ytserush]

... so they've been (well, mostly Derek) been taking jabs at DT but they're going to play DT music live? Well... that's interesting... not sure why they don't play some of Derek's solo stuff instead, show us what the #KingofKeys is all about

I'd love to hear Derek's songs in this context.

[ytserush]

I do wonder how John Lennon would have been perceived if he'd been around in the age of social media. He was one of the great songwriters of the 20th century but was also a complete piece of shit. How well known were his personal foibles at the time?

Very interesting point, actually.

[The Walrus]

I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

With the exception of Adrenaline Mob, I don't feel that anything Mike has released since he left DT could be considered lackluster.  His work with Neal Morse/NMB, Flying Colors, and Transatlantic is top notch IMO. 

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

I love Mike's playing on Hot Streak by The Winery Dogs. IMO it doesn't get nearly the praise it should (the record, that is) - it's my favorite album with MP on it over the last 10 years. His playing on that one doesn't show off or get too flashy, he plays just enough to complement the rest of the song (like the ballad Fire). That's why I'm disappointed they're on this indefinite hiatus because Richie wants to do solo stuff. I'd honestly rather see Mike do more of that these days than technical, flashy prog metal.

[devieira73]

I was watching Live in Chile today... what awesome band!

[ytserush]

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

It's been pretty much like that for me.

[Fritzinger]

I'm just getting so tired of the quantity over quality work ethic of MP. He says he wants complete control so he doesn't have to deal with hundreds of emails about arrangements, but that's what collaboration and creating music is. I know he's not bringing in riffs or anything so why does he imagine that his say is somehow more important (or correct?) than the actual creators of the music? What's the point of shitting out lackluster album after album rather than taking lots of time and creating something really unique and interesting? I'll never understand how taking time in the studio to refine the music and live with it a bit before recording is seen as a negative thing in his world.

With the exception of Adrenaline Mob, I don't feel that anything Mike has released since he left DT could be considered lackluster.  His work with Neal Morse/NMB, Flying Colors, and Transatlantic is top notch IMO. 

At the same time I have loved everything DT has released since Mike left so to me it's been the best of both worlds by Mike leaving the band.

This. I don't like TWD too much but at least the prog stuff he did (FC, TA, NMB and I hope SoA) is pretty awesome imo. Still I think he and his bandmates (of whatever band) could take some more time for their records and produce something even more awesome. Like Haken. They take their time for their albums and they always turn out to be something completely new and amazing.

[XeRocks81]

I do wonder how John Lennon would have been perceived if he'd been around in the age of social media. He was one of the great songwriters of the 20th century but was also a complete piece of shit. How well known were his personal foibles at the time?

Very interesting point, actually.

The thing with Lennon is, yes he was a piece of shit for a long time but towards the end of his life he was much better, taking a few years off to be with his wife and young child (the way he totally wasn't for his first wife and child) wich is why it being cut short like that is all the more tragic.

[KevShmev]

EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him.

I think he does that because a) he always assumes everything he does will turn to gold, and b) he wants to make sure he gets the bulk of the credit when things go well.  "I am the leader and look how well we are doing!"  He's always been like this.

[bosk1]

Yeah, so I am pretty trying to paint Jordan as agreeing that Mike "called all the shots" in DT or was the "musical director" in DT is misquoting him and is not accurate at all.  I would like to see what quotes you are referring to.

[Madman Shepherd]

EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him.

I think he does that because a) he always assumes everything he does will turn to gold, and b) he wants to make sure he gets the bulk of the credit when things go well.

When things go well is the key.  When he gets a lot of blowback, suddenly it's a "band decision."  e.g. not letting John Myung write lyrics. 

Sure Petrucci might have been annoyed with the process but as soon as Mike was gone, Myung starts writing again and Petrucci doesn't have much of a problem working a little extra to get Myung's lyrics into shape for a song. 

This also is goes along with the argument that Mike should take more time writing and recording.  Sure it may have been extra work to format and organize John Myung's lyrics, but when the results are Learning to Live, Trial of Tears, and Breaking All Illusions, for the love of god just work a little more because the results are amazing. 

[Herrick]

EDIT: Let me clarify... I just felt like one of his reasons for leaving DT was because he was burnt out the band and was seemingly handling too much responsibility, so him taking on the same exact role in SoP seems... ironic.  So that's why I said maybe that's part of the reason he's no longer in DT.  If it's what's best for him and the band so be it, but the whole "I'm calling the shots" persona should be kept private within the band, in my opinion.

Yeah Mike calling the shots is perfectly fine and I think he did a great job of doing that in DT.  The fact that Mike has to make it known that he is calling the shots though I think is part of what turns so many off to him.

I don't think it's a big deal if an interviewer asks Portnoy how the band functions and Portnoy says he's in charge.

I wonder how much creative control he has when he is "The Leader". If the rest of the band really likes a musical part and Portnoy doesn't, does he have veto power or something?

[devieira73]

Yeah, so I am pretty trying to paint Jordan as agreeing that Mike "called all the shots" in DT or was the "musical director" in DT is misquoting him and is not accurate at all.  I would like to see what quotes you are referring to.

From memory, I'm 90% sure that I've read or watch somewhere Jordan saying something like that (the musical director part). But I tried google and couldn't find it, sorry.

[devieira73]

While in search for that, I found this, about Jordan joining DT:
https://www.getreadytorock.com/rock_stars/jordan_rudess.htm

"In 1999 you became a member of the Dream Theater family. I was about to ask you whether your participation in the Liquid Tension Experiment project was the thing that made them become interested in you, but I guess that you already named the reason that generated their interest in you.

Jordan: Yeah, yeah - well what happened is that when they originally asked me to join the group eleven years ago, I was also asked to join the Dixie Dregs, and I also had this job with the instrument company. Most importantly, my wife and I had just had our first child, and that's why I said no to them. Kevin Moore had just left the band, they had just finished the - Awake” album and they needed a new Keyboard player. I agreed to make one gig with them, a very important gig called the Foundations Forum. I did that gig and it was all cool, the vibe was great but I didn't want to do the job as a keyboard player in the band. Quite some time after that, I got the offer to participate in the - Liquid Tension Experiment” – that was a band with Mike Portnoy and John Petrucci from Dream Theater and Tony Levin, and I thought - wow, this is cool”. I mean I didn't get to join Dream Theater, but I was working with some of the main guys in the band anyway.

We ended up making two albums together as this, and even though it was a side project for them, believe me when I say that it was a very well-focused effort. After the second Liquid Tension Experiment album we had so much experience working together, composing music together, that we all saw something really brewing there. I saw Portnoy and Petrucci talking about stuff and I thought - Hm, something is happening here”. So then, they re-approached me and asked me again - you know, we've been working for some time together and we have a good vibe with you. What do you think if we asked you again, if you would become member of Dream Theater, would you join?” and I then said - Well, I think so, it's a very good time to join now” (laughs). So, we started a very good working relationship soon after Liquid Tension was over, I was in the studio with the next group which featured John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy and this other bass player who didn't look at all like Tony Levin, but was equally good, and also this quite long-haired singer who wasn't in the studio at the time but he eventually came to record his vocals for the album (laughs)."

Eddie Trunk really caught Mike off guard on that, so I truly believe he just blame "the band decision" for that, because he felt constrained by the question made, right in front of Derek.

[MirrorMask]

I know the situation became current again because of the recent comments, but I thought it was common and widespread knowledge anyway that it was Petrucci and Portnoy wanting to bring Rudess in.

[faizoff]

Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.

[devieira73]

Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.

Yes, you're right, sorry for bringging back that subject again. Let's talk about music, I also think it's much better

[mikeyd23]

I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

[Grappler]

I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

Not necessarily.  In a true band democracy, everyone gets their say and they hash it out until everyone agrees.  In this instance, Mike's not saying that members don't have a say - he's just saying that he makes the final decision.

[As I Am]

OR...maybe that's why DT ISN'T DT anymore!

I have to admit, your hit and run style of posting, that always smacks of "DT sucks without MP; MP rules!" is nothing if not entertaining.  Keep up the good shtick. 

 

I have never said "DT sucks without MP". They're still a very good band. But, IMO, they're not anywhere near as good as when he was in the band and calling the shot. Pretty simple. But, that's just MY opinion

[Skeever]

I miss the DT of of Scenes/Six Degrees dearly.
But if this Sons of Anarchy business is any indication, we were never getting back to that. With or without Mike.

[Lethean]

The Astonishing reminded me quite a bit of Six Degrees.  In the best way - it hinted at it without being an attempt to recreate it, which never works.  Scenes and Six Degrees are my favorite DT albums, but I wouldn't say I miss that DT. The 3 MM albums have all been amazing and I don't want them to purposely try to do a part 2 of my favorites. If something is reminiscent, that would be cool.

[Dreammajesty]

Ooh i remember the Rudes experiment,hearing Jordan play the DT tunes.Holy crap i really wanted him to join DT

[mikeyd23]

I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

Not necessarily.  In a true band democracy, everyone gets their say and they hash it out until everyone agrees.  In this instance, Mike's not saying that members don't have a say - he's just saying that he makes the final decision.

Yup, I get that. Like I said, I would hate to be in a band like that, I'd personally want everyone's opinions to hold the same amount of weight. "Our band" rather than "his band".

[MirrorMask]

Still another 10 days left before the album drops, would be nice to talk about hating the music for a change.

Well, now you can hate the package in which said music will come in!

Pics from the various editions from Mike on FB:

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722124812087/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722398145393/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/photos/pcb.1918731748144458/1918722381478728/?type=3&theater

[SwedishGoose]

Not gonna hate those packages I think they look great.. not gonna make the music sound better though

Still hoping that the rest of the songs fit me better than the released ones.

[Stadler]

I don't think there is generally anything wrong with that MP interview, I honestly would just hate to be in a band like that. Seems like Bumblewhatever, Billy, and Jeff are just kinda hired guns.

Not necessarily.  In a true band democracy, everyone gets their say and they hash it out until everyone agrees.  In this instance, Mike's not saying that members don't have a say - he's just saying that he makes the final decision.

The idea that most bands are a "democracy" is kind of a fallacy.  They are all run differently, but most bands have a decision-maker, even if that decision-maker wields a benevolent hand.   Steve Harris.  Mick Jagger.  The Edge.   Lennon (at first); McCartney (later).    Chris Squire.  Jerry Garcia.   Tony Banks.   Noel Gallagher.   Paul Stanley. 

Rush is one of the very few that really do operate as a democratic collective.