Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[bosk1]

I think playing BMS/HK/LITS is the way to go. BMS has MP lyrics (and he loves to play the DT songs he wrote the lyrics for) and has a great Derek keyboard solo. Also, these 3 songs flow so well toghether, that, imo, it's best to play them back to back.

Good observation.  My only reason for believing they will not do all of those is that that is a pretty long chunk of the set to do all three.  I don't think they would do that.

As for using Bumblefoot's voice, I don't think they'll use it too much, maybe not at all. Don't ask me why...

Well, they already have been using him in that capacity, so no reason to believe they wouldn't do so on a cover.

[The Walrus]

"No iPads, no apps, no cheesy ass gadgets."

[bosk1]

"No iPads, no apps, no cheesy ass gadgets; no class."

Fixed.

[ganpondorodf]

Eat my apps and balls?

[Samsara]

Cool video. Looking forward to hearing the record. They need to have at least one tour shirt with a Minotaur on it. 

[devieira73]

"No iPads, no apps, no cheesy ass gadgets; no class."

Fixed.

Oh, Derek, why, why?!
Anyway, this won't take away my appreciation for the album 

[rumborak]

As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

[MirrorMask]

As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

I thought it was just showmanship but now that I think about it, you could be right...

[gzarruk]

I think playing BMS/HK/LITS is the way to go. BMS has MP lyrics (and he loves to play the DT songs he wrote the lyrics for) and has a great Derek keyboard solo. Also, these 3 songs flow so well toghether, that, imo, it's best to play them back to back.

Good observation.  My only reason for believing they will not do all of those is that that is a pretty long chunk of the set to do all three.  I don't think they would do that.

Their album is just about an hour long, going by the song lenghts posted, so they should have a lot of extra time on their set to add these songs without worrying too much about the time. It could definitely work.

[Stadler]

The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous". 

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

[bill1971]

The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous". 

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

If it is just between them, then why is Derek making it public?

[Orbert]

As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

It is.  It's a much more natural position for playing.  The disadvantage is that you don't have great visibility to the controls, but since Derek only ever uses the same two patches, that's not an issue for him.

[bosk1]

The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous". 

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

If it is just between them, then why is Derek making it public?

Exactly.  The point is--and has always been--what Mike and Derek have been saying publicly.  Whatever is going on privately, whether real or imagined, should be kept private.  They don't have any business taking shots publicly, even if there hypothetically could be "more to the story" that could somehow make the shots "justified."  Dirty laundry shouldn't be aired publicly.  That's why people keep responding to Stadler that any other behind-closed-doors fact are "irrelevant."  The "whole story," assuming there is more, may be perfectly relevant to why certain people may be justified in feeling a certain way.  But it is irrelevant to whether any of it should be aired publicly. 

[Stadler]

The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous". 

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

If it is just between them, then why is Derek making it public?

I meant the interpretation and feelings.  I can only speculate, like you, why he's posting what he's posting.  My personal guess, based on his response and Mike's, is to be funny and to continue the dialogue, good or bad.  Not my sense of humor, then again, most comedy isn't.   Patton Oswald isn't funny either, and yet he keeps posting.     

[Stadler]

As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

It is.  It's a much more natural position for playing.  The disadvantage is that you don't have great visibility to the controls, but since Derek only ever uses the same two patches, that's not an issue for him.

You should do that at your next church gig.  I'll bet lunch after you get at least two people coming up to you and saying "do you need help fixing your keyboard stand? I have tools in the car..."

[OpenYourEyes311]

The thing that gets me is that Jordan has been the only member of DT that has publicly been friendly and seen with Mike since the split. To let Derek continuously make those comments, let alone laugh at them, makes Mike look really bad in my eyes.

And honestly, I don't get the comments anyway. You're a freakin' KEYBOARD player. Your whole thing is emulating sounds that you cannot make acoustically... that's what a keyboard does. So why are you making fun of someone who's doing the same thing you're doing, but in a more interesting way... oh, I guess I answered my own question

But isn't that between them?   It's not up to us to say whether Jordan should be uncomfortable or pissed off or amused, or whatever, at Mike or Derek or both.   Maybe it's me; having lived through a marriage where most of my friends (at least the ones that mattered) hated my wife (and vice versa) I kind of see a different side.  It isn't always be a clear, "us or them" environment.     Then again, the opposite could be true:  Jordan could be "this is fucking ridiculous". 

As for the "more interesting"... that's personal taste.  It's kind of a less-exaggerated difference between Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.    Potayto, potahto.

As has been previously stated, it's NOT between them. It is now public. As soon as you post a video with Derek making a joke clearly at JRs expense, and Mike laughs at that joke, it's public. And they both don't look good because of it.

And I think you missed the point of my second paragraph. The point was not who I or anyone else thinks is more interesting. It's about who cares how either one makes the sound, as it's not an acoustic sound anyway. Derek is playing Keyboards. Jordan is playing Keyboards and apps on the iPhone (most of which he created) and keytar, etc... they're all noise makers. None of them are guitars or drums or piano. They're not acoustic instruments. They are literally doing the same thing (making noise by pressing buttons designed to make a specific noise), and Derek feels the need to make fun. I just don't get it.

[Orbert]

As a serious question, that way of angling the keyboards must be better for the wrists, no?

It is.  It's a much more natural position for playing.  The disadvantage is that you don't have great visibility to the controls, but since Derek only ever uses the same two patches, that's not an issue for him.

You should do that at your next church gig.  I'll bet lunch after you get at least two people coming up to you and saying "do you need help fixing your keyboard stand? I have tools in the car..."

I would!  No bet.

[vtgrad]

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Or they just don't have an album to push at this point.   It's a really tough thing for me to read too much into "silence".  "Silence" is too easily "anything we want it to be".    For me, no indication of how they feel is exactly that:  no indication.    They could be pissed off, they could be laughing their asses off, they could be having a heart-to-heart with their management about how to move forward... who knows?    It's the worst sort of speculation.

I would argue that the bold quote above is the best way to handle any situation like this (or most situations in general); why does the aggressive party need to know what the other party is feeling... for that matter, why does anyone need to know what the other party is feeling?  Feelings are fluid things ("life turns on a dime" to quote SK) and change with the wind in some cases... why clue-in the aggressive party in a situation like this as to how you are feeling about anything that's spoken or done, when those feelings may change suddenly?  Why not keep your own council within your own circle and go about your own business in the best way that you see fit?

I believe that King Solomon was right: "He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.  Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."  Proverbs 17:27-28

[The Silent Cody]

I enjoyed the video from the studio, funny to watch How was the working title from the end? Fuck Stand 45? or probably I'm misspelling something very badly

[MirrorMask]

Saw the video. Jeff Scott Soto starts to sing and after 5-6 seconds  it cuts away. DAMN!

I tell you, there aren't nearly enough videos of singers recording vocals where you hear only their bare voice and nothing else. I understand many are into instruments and so it's nice to see drum cams, people recording guitars etc but there should be more videos of singers just singing in the studio, and hearing all the nuisances of their actual voice rather than hearing it along with the other instruments on the final, mastered and mixed record.

[Stadler]

Saw the video. Jeff Scott Soto starts to sing and after 5-6 seconds  it cuts away. DAMN!

I tell you, there aren't nearly enough videos of singers recording vocals where you hear only their bare voice and nothing else. I understand many are into instruments and so it's nice to see drum cams, people recording guitars etc but there should be more videos of singers just singing in the studio, and hearing all the nuisances of their actual voice rather than hearing it along with the other instruments on the final, mastered and mixed record.

If memory serves, there is a great passage in the doc that came along with Iron Maiden's "A Matter of Life or Death", which does just that.  It gives me the chills.  There's no studio tomfoolery or hijinks, at least with Maiden. 

[Dave_Manchester]

I can only speculate, like you, why he's posting what he's posting.  My personal guess, based on his response and Mike's, is to be funny and to continue the dialogue, good or bad. 

If his intention is to "continue the dialogue, good or bad" then why does he delete absolutely every reply which pushes back a little on his 'Jordan jabs', no matter how politely or respectfully expressed they are? You said your guess is based on his "response", but his response so far has been to shut down every instance of counter opinions. How is that continuing a dialogue?

And you've already addressed the issue of making this stuff public, but your marriage scenario was an apt one, though for a slightly different reason. When you were going through your divorce I don't imagine you walked through the public streets of Philadelphia wearing a sandwich board declaring "My Wife Is The Spawn Of Satan", and then when people asked you what you were doing, responded with "Do you mind, this is a private matter between my wife and I"

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this stuff should be private, yes. That it isn't is entirely down to Mr Sherinian.

On the general theme, my opinion is that this forced camaraderie between MP and DS had better be founded on something more than just a mutual grudge against Dream Theater, because if not then I can see 2018 being a difficult year for the band. They have said that they are spending all next year on this band, touring the world, which is great, but I simply don't see them being very successful. I honestly don't think this album is going to take off on any charts and I don't think they're going to be playing decent sized venues, and it'd be wise for Derek and Mike to practice now not simply lashing out at everyone who doesn't unconditionally love what they've done. It'll be interesting to see how this band survives the long, difficult road ahead as they hit the small clubs and play the gigs night after night. There are 5 strong personalities in this band (with rumours of small clashes already between Derek and Jeff), all of whom have known what comparatively big success is to varying degrees. If by March or April of next year Sons of Apollo haven't taken off, will we see the first unfortunate case of "scheduling conflicts"? I suspect so.

[bosk1]

Yup, I agree, Dave.  I personally want them to do well because I want the music to succeed.  But the abominable public face these guys have put forward puts me on the fence in terms of whether or not I will support it.  I am only inclined to do so because I like the music I have heard so far.  The public face the band members themselves have been putting forward is having the opposite effect, and if I liked the music any less, I wouldn't even consider buying it, as I have lost any desire whatsoever to support these guys just because of who they are.

[Stadler]

I can only speculate, like you, why he's posting what he's posting.  My personal guess, based on his response and Mike's, is to be funny and to continue the dialogue, good or bad. 

If his intention is to "continue the dialogue, good or bad" then why does he delete absolutely every reply which pushes back a little on his 'Jordan jabs', no matter how politely or respectfully expressed they are? You said your guess is based on his "response", but his response so far has been to shut down every instance of counter opinions. How is that continuing a dialogue?

And you've already addressed the issue of making this stuff public, but your marriage scenario was an apt one, though for a slightly different reason. When you were going through your divorce I don't imagine you walked through the public streets of Philadelphia wearing a sandwich board declaring "My Wife Is The Spawn Of Satan", and then when people asked you what you were doing, responded with "Do you mind, this is a private matter between my wife and I"

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this stuff should be private, yes. That it isn't is entirely down to Mr Sherinian.

I don't disagree with that, with the caveat that I wouldn't answer that person that way, unless and until they said they were offended and thought it childish (the latter of which is happening here, more or less).  At that point, you are, I guess, entitled to make of that sandwich board what you will (as long as it is keeping with the facts that you know or that are available) but the EMOTIONAL response to it is solely that of my wife.  If she thinks it's childish and inappropriate, that's all that matters.  If she chuckles and says "That's my Stadler..." then no one else has anything to say about it. 

A good example of what I'm talking about is actually Bill and Hillary Clinton.  She took a lot of shit from people for staying with him, and how it's not feminist to stay with him, and how she's an opportunist (which, generally, she is) for staying with him... and I was then and am now of the opinion that it is HER choice and HER prerogative whether to stay, and no one else can make that decision for her, or judge her for that decision.   That's all I'm saying.   

On the general theme, my opinion is that this forced camaraderie between MP and DS had better be founded on something more than just a mutual grudge against Dream Theater, because if not then I can see 2018 being a difficult year for the band. They have said that they are spending all next year on this band, touring the world, which is great, but I simply don't see them being very successful. I honestly don't think this album is going to take off on any charts and I don't think they're going to be playing decent sized venues, and it'd be wise for Derek and Mike to practice now not simply lashing out at everyone who doesn't unconditionally love what they've done. It'll be interesting to see how this band survives the long, difficult road ahead as they hit the small clubs and play the gigs night after night. There are 5 strong personalities in this band (with rumours of small clashes already between Derek and Jeff), all of whom have known what comparatively big success is to varying degrees. If by March or April of next year Sons of Apollo haven't taken off, will we see the first unfortunate case of "scheduling conflicts"? I suspect so.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  100%.  I think some of the members of SoA have an awful lot of eggs in one, flimsy basket.   Here in CT, Dream Theater played the Oakdale Theater in Wallingford, about 5,000.   The last two times I've seen Mike was at the Ridgefield Playhouse, a fantastic place to see a show, but that only seats about 500.   I feel like SoA is far more likely to be playing the latter.  Couple that with the multiple reviews that cite Jeff as perhaps one of the more open to interpretation decisions (I know for me, it's the one area that troubles me the most about SoA), and I don't see the road ahead paved with stadium headlining shows and platinum records.

[Herrick]

Here is the interview. Lots of info and insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7exJyAgjhk

Sherinian really can't stop talking about Dream Theater. I wonder if it's something that eats away at him. I hope not.

[The Walrus]

It definitely eats at him. Why else would he constantly make jabs at JR and DT two full decades after the fact? It's sad.

[Samsara]

*sigh*

Can it just be about the music? I mean, yeah, there are egos involved, and DS said some stupid things that should have been kept private. But once you get the music, and put it on, can you separate the online drama from the tunes?

I know personally that if I am remotely connected to something, that no, I can't. I need distance. But in this situation, with very few exceptions, we're all just fans here. Nothing that goes on with DT/MP/DS affects us in any way in our real lives. So, that said, are people REALLY going to not check out the record and go see them just because of their big mouths? REALLY? I mean, in bosk1's case, who has had direct contact with MP, and with members of Dream Theater because of this forum, I get it (trust me, I get it better than most).

But for the rest of us, come on...

Just put on the tunes and let all this promotional squabble and BS go away...

[bosk1]

It would be much easier to disconnect from it if it was one, or two, or even a handful of relatively isolated comments.  But it's not.  There's something new every couple of days, it seems.  And Mike and Derek are actively trying to get it all out there by making sure it is on social media.  It's more than a few careless comments on social media or in interviews--it is actively using social media to troll on a regular basis now.

[Stadler]

Here is the interview. Lots of info and insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7exJyAgjhk

Sherinian really can't stop talking about Dream Theater. I wonder if it's something that eats away at him. I hope not.

We know one of the commenters. 

[Anxiety35]

Derek said that he wanted to keep it real, old school, and make it rocking. That's great. That should have been all he needed to say.

Why the obvious jab at JR with the reference to the iPad, keytar, apps, and gadgets? The technology side of things is another element that sets JR apart from the rest of the keyboard world, besides his playing ability.

In my opinion Derek will never be the player Rudess is. Just like I will never be the drummer Neil Peart is. I like Derek's playing but I don't care for his current attitude. Just be what makes you Derek Sherinian and let everything else fall into place.

Let it go dude.

[Samsara]

It's just really sad (not meaning that against anyone here) that what could be a really cool musical experience is being tainted -- not just by the commentary from DS and MP, but by the "need" to respond to it, and the pot that gets stirred because of that reaction.

[kaos2900]

I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.

[Nekov]

I'm going to be greedy and say that I hope this goes no where just so Mike can focus his time and energy on Flying Colors 3 and The Neal Morse Band. I think Neal is the Angel and Derek is the devil on Mike's shoulder at this point. Mike needs a positive influence, not someone like Derek who is going to egg him on.

I would like this so much (the flying colors part) and agree that he needs to spend a lot more time with Neal. I'd also love if they could put together another Transatlantic album

[PixelDream]

What I've heard so far from Sons of Apollo seems like enjoyable music, but really nothing new at this point. Alas, I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking either from DT anymore.

Derek's remarks are very childish I agree, but if I empathise real hard I can see where he's coming from. I really like Falling Into Infinity and Derek's work on it, and it must have been devastating to be replaced like that while doing such a good job. Still, this is two decades after the fact, DT is late-career and it just all seems so damn futile. Especially when Sons of Apollo sounds as generic prog metal as it does.

[Herrick]

I enjoyed the video from the studio, funny to watch How was the working title from the end? Fuck Stand 45? or probably I'm misspelling something very badly

I thought it was Fuck Stain 45.

*sigh*

Can it just be about the music? I mean, yeah, there are egos involved, and DS said some stupid things that should have been kept private. But once you get the music, and put it on, can you separate the online drama from the tunes?

I can but since there's only two tracks officially released, there's not much else to talk about. 12 more days!

We know one of the commenters.

Huh?