Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[bosk1]

Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.

That's a very interesting point, Skeever. I think you're right. Mike has replied with sarcastic/satirical comments and tweets to fans that asked him something on social media and he answered something like "If you were a true fan, you WOULD know or do this or that".

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

I agree with this.  I consider myself a "true fan" in the knowledge sense of the word, and the dedication sense of the word, but I missed a LOT of the epic shows in the New York area (Score, Radio City) because I was living in the south, with a newborn, working full time and going to school at night.  It just wasn't in the cards to drop everything, spend money I didn't have, to cavort to NYC to see a concert.   And I refuse to acknowledge that that somehow dictates what level "fan" I am.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, but I would just choose to word it a bit differently:  For me, if it is not in the budget or if I don't think it is in the best interest of my family to spend the time or money to go to a show, the show has to take a back seat to that.  My family comes first, and since stewardship of my time and money belongs to my family just as much as me individually, I'm going to sometimes have to prioritize in a way that causes me to miss some things.  If that makes me less than a "true fan," then I'm just not a "true fan."  And I'm okay with that. 

[Stadler]

How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

[As I Am]

Funny how, if they wanted, they could have almost unanimous support from the DT community.  But due to the way Mike and Derek are handling themselves publicly and privately, they are completely shooting themselves in the feet by alienating some of the fanbase.  Pretty shortsighted to alienate the very fanbase that started out predisposed to support them.  Oh well.  If this project flops, they have no one to blame but themselves.

agreed. Very strange way to "promote"!

[MirrorMask]

Went back to listen to the two songs. I kinda like them by now. Signs of the Time is the better of the two, very nice vocal melodies, maybe the solo runs a little too long. Coming Home has a nice groove, but I'm just totally NOT into the lyrics subject. Never cared for those kind of lyrics, maybe one out of 100 come out nice and catchy but in the majority of cases they just sound a bit cheesy.

[bill1971]

How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

I have been eagerly waiting for you to explain that analogy for the past few years now.

[Sycsa]

Went back to listen to the two songs. I kinda like them by now. Signs of the Time is the better of the two, very nice vocal melodies, maybe the solo runs a little too long. Coming Home has a nice groove, but I'm just totally NOT into the lyrics subject. Never cared for those kind of lyrics, maybe one out of 100 come out nice and catchy but in the majority of cases they just sound a bit cheesy.

I can picture MP, when he saw the lyircs, he was like "dude, I'm gonna have to sing that "I'm coming home" part, since I'm coming back to prog to kick some ass, you know, heh heh." Depending on my mood, that's walking a fine line between being emotional/moving and cringey/cheesy.

[Lethean]

I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.

[ariich]

I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.

Personally, I started out like you not taking sides, and have continued that way, and frankly I don't find it difficult at all.

You're right that the band (well, MP and DS) appear to be bringing the battle mentality, but how I respond to that is up to me. If someone baits me on here to the point where I launch into abuse and personal attacks, I'll still get banned (an unlikely scenario, but an apt analogy!).

[bosk1]

I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.

Great post, Lethean.  That about sums it up for me as well.  Other than "I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD)" (I didn't) and "I don't like it [the present SoA album]" (based on what I've heard so far, I do like it), that post could have been written by me.

[Stadler]

How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

I have been eagerly waiting for you to explain that analogy for the past few years now.

Huh?  It's a fresh one from me, I think. 

If you "eagerly await" something, you are by definition anticipating it.
If you "take a bath" you are by definition getting wet.

[bill1971]

How exactly do you eagerly await something and yet not anticipate it at the same time?   Isn't that like taking a bath and not getting wet?

I have been eagerly waiting for you to explain that analogy for the past few years now.

Huh?  It's a fresh one from me, I think. 

If you "eagerly await" something, you are by definition anticipating it.
If you "take a bath" you are by definition getting wet.

I know I was just trying to show an example of anticipating something I didn't know about.

[Anxiety35]

It would have been better all around if the guys would have just announced the band, released the tracks for promo purposes, and done interviews about the music while refraining from comments about their stints in DT or anything DT related. I get the fact that DT is what makes them well known (MP much more than DS) and DT is the connection between MP & DS. They could have kept it simple and said something to the fact of DT being a great band and they enjoyed their time in the band, etc. Kept it somewhat "politically correct" while not potentially burning any bridges or causing unnecessary friction.

Why so much emphasis on the past? It's the past. Can't go back there. All you can do is focus on today and what's to come.

Notice how we've heard absolutely nothing from the DT camp regarding SOA, MP or DS? In my opinion, that's the more professional move.

[Dave_Manchester]

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.


A word on a comment Stadler wrote, about whether or not Mike and/or Marlene are savvy to how these things play out: I once had a nice exchange with his sister Sam over at his Forum. It was in the aftermath of his Facebook rant 'calling out' the London hospital for prioritising all those fucking malingering British taxpayers instead of famous American drummers with gigs to get to. Some guy politely and respectfully responded to him on Facebook, and MP doubled down, once again siccing the Warriors on him. In the relevant thread on his Forum, Sam popped in to defend her brother, which I actually thought was a cool thing to do. She said that she herself sometimes tries to persuade Mike to be less impulsive on the internet, and that she's lost her temper with him now and again over how he occasionally reacts. So I don't know how Marlene feels about his outbursts, but his sister for one isn't entirely down with it.

For what it's worth (which is nothing of course, but I'm absolutely positive MP reads this thread, so just so he knows), I'm not financially supporting this band because of Derek's 'burger flipper' comment; not because of anything MP has done or said regarding this project.

[ganpondorodf]

I think someone needs to sit MP down and explain to him that although he's a professional musician, he's not a rock star. He's a million miles from being a household name and can't get away with being a jerk to his fans in the same way, say, Morrissey can.

Anyway, anytime I read 'Coming Home' it just puts Rock You Like a Hurricane in my head

[bill1971]

It would have been better all around if the guys would have just announced the band, released the tracks for promo purposes, and done interviews about the music while refraining from comments about their stints in DT or anything DT related. I get the fact that DT is what makes them well known (MP much more than DS) and DT is the connection between MP & DS. They could have kept it simple and said something to the fact of DT being a great band and they enjoyed their time in the band, etc. Kept it somewhat "politically correct" while not potentially burning any bridges or causing unnecessary friction.

Why so much emphasis on the past? It's the past. Can't go back there. All you can do is focus on today and what's to come.

Notice how we've heard absolutely nothing from the DT camp regarding SOA, MP or DS? In my opinion, that's the more professional move.

I doubt we will hear anything from DT, they all seem happy where they are in life.

[rumborak]

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

[noxon]

https://metalwani.com/2017/10/review-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony.html

This review is insulting to Derek.

[SwedishGoose]

https://metalwani.com/2017/10/review-sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony.html

This review is insulting to Derek.

Anything less than a 9 out of 10 would be insulting to him...

If they feel it is soo strong then why can't they let rhe music do the talking.

[KevShmev]

To some degree, the way I perceive it, is that the two seem to view us as "musical morons" who will eat up anything that has odd meters and fast solos in it. Because, how can we have taste if we still listen to that unspeakable band that MP was once a part of?!
So, DS and MP form a band to pander to the likes us, but because neither of them even is into prog all that much these days, it becomes a shoehorned effort. Us musical morons pick up on that, but between their incredulity and fragile egos, they quickly conclude that we are indeed the morons they took us for, only for a different reason.
Tldr: "We pandered to morons but they didn't like it, which shows they're even more moronic than we thought."

I cannot disagree with this in any way whatsoever.

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

What was the encore? 

[The Walrus]

So I hate to draw parallels but this situation very eerily reminds me of Timo Tolkki's Symfonia back in 2011. For those who don't know, this supergroup (Symfonia) was supposed to blow the goddamn roof off the power metal house. This was hyped to be unlike anything else, and I and plenty of other people were soiling themselves over the lineup: 2 ex-Stratovarius members (Timo Tolkki and Jari Kainulainen), Mikko Harkin on keys, Andre Matos singing, and Uli Kusch drumming. Unbelievable lineup, amazing chops, and a well respected songwriter in Tolkki. How could this be bad? They hyped the living daylights out of this thing, Tolkki talking about a contract for 4 albums and world tour, band interviews, extremely polished hype videos with flashy hi def graphics, reviews praising the unbelievable power metal pyrotechnics on the album...

... and it completely fell flat. One album. A very small tour. Everyone got tired of playing small crowds, they barely sold copies (I don't have numbers, but I was told it was not a pleasant amount despite all the hype and relatively big names attached to it). Worst of all - the music was nothing more than a Stratovarius clone. You could've replaced Andre with Timo and it would've been a B-rate Stratovarius album. And, on top of that giant shit sundae, apparently there was tension in the band because of the behavior of two of the members. Huh.

I fear the same for Sons of Apollo, but it's only made worse by Derek and Mike not only pushing people away from buying the album or going to gigs, but literally making them lose longtime fans like myself. Now, lots of people don't give a shit. That's totally fine and I hope they enjoy the music, and I honestly hope it isn't disappointing for them. But for people like me and others to whom this stuff kinda matters (for whatever reasons), it's sorely disappointing

[cramx3]

It would have been better all around if the guys would have just announced the band, released the tracks for promo purposes, and done interviews about the music while refraining from comments about their stints in DT or anything DT related. I get the fact that DT is what makes them well known (MP much more than DS) and DT is the connection between MP & DS. They could have kept it simple and said something to the fact of DT being a great band and they enjoyed their time in the band, etc. Kept it somewhat "politically correct" while not potentially burning any bridges or causing unnecessary friction.

Why so much emphasis on the past? It's the past. Can't go back there. All you can do is focus on today and what's to come.

Notice how we've heard absolutely nothing from the DT camp regarding SOA, MP or DS? In my opinion, that's the more professional move.

What's interesting is in interviews they do say the "politically correct" thing.  For example, in the Shattered Fortress interview series on youtube, MP comes off very well and says all the right things about DT.  However, when it comes to twitter, we see a different side.  It would be nice if they stayed "politically correct" even on twitter. I don't see much of a difference since both are public representations of themselves.

[KevShmev]

What's interesting is in interviews they do say the "politically correct" thing.  For example, in the Shattered Fortress interview series on youtube, MP comes off very well and says all the right things about DT.  However, when it comes to twitter, we see a different side.  It would be nice if they stayed "politically correct" even on twitter. I don't see much of a difference since both are public representations of themselves.

In interviews, you can almost always tell that he is doing everything he can to not go off, because he knows how poorly it would come off, especially with having the visuals of him saying this or that, but when it comes to social media, where most people in general have difficulty self-censoring themselves, he gets major diarrhea of the mouth.

[Spiritus]

Yup, I agree with this assessment. And I think the other fatal tragedy here is that MP doesn't seem to "get" who his real fans are. Some of the people who wish he'd stop with this "with us or against us" attitude? The very same who attend his special TSF shows, his cruises, buy his albums and box sets, etc. In a way, it's starting to feel like the inverse of Never Enough has become true: it's no longer that fans are ungrateful for MP, it's that no fan can ever live up to the fanboy that MP wants. It's not enough to spend hundreds of dollars per year seeing the man's various projects; all Mike knows or cares about is that one time you gave said one of his projects wasn't your cup of tea.

That's a very interesting point, Skeever. I think you're right. Mike has replied with sarcastic/satirical comments and tweets to fans that asked him something on social media and he answered something like "If you were a true fan, you WOULD know or do this or that".

For example, I remember that someone asked him a while ago if the TSF shows were going to be recorded for a future release, since he, and many many many others, myself included, didn't live anywhere near the places/countries that had been announced for the tour. Mike replied with something along the lines of "This is a once in a lifetime event, and if you were a true fan, you would do whatever it takes to catch one of these shows" (Not his exact words).
Some people just can't afford to travel to another country or get in a cruise for a few days just to see Mike (or any other artist) perform a show, and that doesn't mean they aren't true fans or anything like that. It's just silly.

I agree with this.  I consider myself a "true fan" in the knowledge sense of the word, and the dedication sense of the word, but I missed a LOT of the epic shows in the New York area (Score, Radio City) because I was living in the south, with a newborn, working full time and going to school at night.  It just wasn't in the cards to drop everything, spend money I didn't have, to cavort to NYC to see a concert.   And I refuse to acknowledge that that somehow dictates what level "fan" I am.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, but I would just choose to word it a bit differently:  For me, if it is not in the budget or if I don't think it is in the best interest of my family to spend the time or money to go to a show, the show has to take a back seat to that.  My family comes first, and since stewardship of my time and money belongs to my family just as much as me individually, I'm going to sometimes have to prioritize in a way that causes me to miss some things.  If that makes me less than a "true fan," then I'm just not a "true fan."  And I'm okay with that.

You should sacrifice your life, neglect your kids and wife and better see Mike at these shows or you are not a true fan.
I know, I know,  but those lyrics seems fitting, ironic? Hypocritical. Whichever.

[Lethean]

Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.

Really?   That's completely awful.  I just don't understand that; shouldn't he feel happy that he has fans that want to see him live?  Even if they can't afford it?

[Lethean]

I know for me, I've long grown out of the "battle" mentality of music.  I'm not a standard bearer for METAL! or PROG! and I can easily listen to Harry Styles and Sons of Apollo with no irony or no confusion.   My last five shows are Gene Simmons, Iron Maiden, Neal Morse, Shattered Fortress, and Night Ranger.   

I was at Night Ranger Friday - by myself (it was a fairground, and my wife and step-daughter were elsewhere in the fair) - and I can remember when Sing Me Away came on and some old fat guy (not me) and his girl looked over at me and we traded horns and cheesy guitar faces, but we were having a fucking BLAST.  That's what it's about.  Not this nonsense about what's a "real" review or not.   I don't give a flap about apps and wizardry and cheese.  Jack Blades is a walking block of cheddar as far as that goes, and yet there were 5,000 people (at least) rockin' out like it was a Beatles reunion.   I just want good, honest, heart-felt music.

Which is totally fine....  but, what if the artist is bring the "battle mentality" to you?  I decided after the split that I wasn't going to take sides, and I didn't.  I've followed DT and I've followed MP.  I went to shows of MP projects that I don't actually like (AM and TWD) just to see him play.  If this album came out without all of the nonsense that's been going on - I would do the same; I'd be disappointed because I don't like it (and was hoping to), but I'd do what I've always done.  Say "fair enough, I'm not going to like everything, maybe the next one will grab me."  I'd still buy it and still see them live.

Now?  No.  I'm not going to the show, or bringing anyone else with me.  MP is as close as he's ever been to completely losing me as a fan.  Not because I'm offended on behalf of JP or JR or JLB.  Or JM for that matter. But precisely because I hate this "battle mentality." If you just want to brag about how your album is the best thing ever, great - I might roll my eyes, but will probably ignore it.  Belittling fans and reviewers, engaging in personal attacks... it's all just too much.

Personally, I started out like you not taking sides, and have continued that way, and frankly I don't find it difficult at all.

You're right that the band (well, MP and DS) appear to be bringing the battle mentality, but how I respond to that is up to me. If someone baits me on here to the point where I launch into abuse and personal attacks, I'll still get banned (an unlikely scenario, but an apt analogy!).

Completely agreed. I have no intention of personal attacks against Mike or anyone else. I suppose there may come a day when I say something unfortunate, but I try not to.  Or at least, I try to just say those things to myself and then post later.

[ganpondorodf]

Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.

Really?   That's completely awful.  I just don't understand that; shouldn't he feel happy that he has fans that want to see him live?  Even if they can't afford it?

I think he's just totally lost touch.

[gzarruk]

Yeah, there was one occasion where a South American fan wrote to him a message saying how much he loved him and then expressed regret that he wasn't touring in his country. MP's word-for-word response to the guy: "You are aware there's this invention called an airplane, right?" I was tempted to point out to him that there's this other invention called 'money' and not everybody has a lot of it, but it was too late, the Emergency Response Unit of the MP Warriors had already set about publicly humiliating the guy.

Yeah, I remember that one too... 
He expects people to do whatever it takes to follow him, but, if you don't, he calls you a troll or treats you like you're worth nothing.

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.

[ganpondorodf]

And yeah that 'MP Warriors' thing is hilarious and pathetic

[MirrorMask]

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.

I'm curious too, the only problems I can think of are a series of misunderstanding with the venues for some US dates, and not being allowed to play at an indonesian temple.

[Sycsa]

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.

I'm curious too, the only problems I can think of are a series of misunderstanding with the venues for some US dates, and not being allowed to play at an indonesian temple.

Mangini seemed pretty dissatisfied with his position in DT in recent interviews (not being included in the songwriting and such), plus, as far as I know, the Astonishing tour was a financial flop. It's possible that they're doing such an extensive tour, focusing heavily on their biggest hits (I&W, ACoS), to recuperate some of that loss. I don't imagine that it's too much fun doing multiple strings of consecutive nights, and it took its toll on James' voice as well.

[MirrorMask]

I think they're on record saying how they wanted the I&W celebreation relatively short, and that, understandably, they got floode by promoter requests worldwide. I assume they're touring this lot because they're being asked and offered to, not because "Damn people don't like The Astonishing, let's remind them we wrote also Metropolis and A Change of Seasons".

[Logain Ablar]

Mangini seemed pretty dissatisfied with his position in DT in recent interviews (not being included in the songwriting and such), plus, as far as I know, the Astonishing tour was a financial flop. It's possible that they're doing such an extensive tour, focusing heavily on their biggest hits (I&W, ACoS), to recuperate some of that loss. I don't imagine that it's too much fun doing multiple strings of consecutive nights, and it took its toll on James' voice as well.

Do we know for sure that it lost money, or maybe just that it didn't make the money that was hoped for, with venues that weren't completely sold out?

BTW - this thread is a great lurk, but personally I don't like this type of trash talk between musicians. It's self defeating. Even with the drama aside, I haven't liked the two tracks released enough to make me want to buy the album. It was the same with the Winery Dogs - that spark of interest just isn't there for me.

[noxon]

The Astonishing was not s commercial flop for the band - but noe did it bring in a lot of money. The contracts with the promoter guarantuee the band their asking price, it’s almost always the promoter that bears the risk of the concert. There may be a bonus agreement which cuts the initial price in hopes of greater shares of the profit should they sell very well, but it’s not the standard (for DT at least).

[Peter Mc]

Luckily, LUCKILY, DT is smart enough to stay away from this sort of shit. Granted, they have a whole lot of problems in their own camp to deal with, but they definitely know that acknowledging any of this stuff means lowering yourself.

Rumbo, could you elaborate more on the bolded part? I don't necessarily disagree with you on that, but I'd really like to know what are you talking about, they seem to be having a blast lately.

I'm curious too, the only problems I can think of are a series of misunderstanding with the venues for some US dates, and not being allowed to play at an indonesian temple.

Mangini seemed pretty dissatisfied with his position in DT in recent interviews (not being included in the songwriting and such), plus, as far as I know, the Astonishing tour was a financial flop. It's possible that they're doing such an extensive tour, focusing heavily on their biggest hits (I&W, ACoS), to recuperate some of that loss. I don't imagine that it's too much fun doing multiple strings of consecutive nights, and it took its toll on James' voice as well.

Don't DT get paid a flat rate by the promoter whether they sell lots of tickets or not, can't see the tour being a flop for them financially.  The show I saw at the London Palladium looked pretty full and they were doing two nights.  Attendance may not have been all they hoped at some of the shows but that's not their problem, it's the promoter who loses money.  It may mean of course that the promoter thinks twice before booking them for so many shows again or won't pay the same money next time around.

They all seem fairly happy to me, maybe Mangini would like to be more involved but TA was a one off Petrucci project and not a standard DT album.  I'm sure he will be more involved this time around as he was with DT12.  Glad they haven't got involved in all the "banter" with DS/MP as they are far too classy to do so.  Their albums sell themselves based upon one of the most stellar, consistent back catalogues in rock/metal history.

[RoeDent]

This whole promo saga has got to the point where I'm questioning whether I will buy anything from Portnoy ever again. It's put a really really sour taste in my mouth. It's obvious that there is a divide, nay, a chasm, between DT fans who stuck with the band (and have been treated to three of their most wonderful albums), and those who jumped ship when MP left. And MP and DS are only highlighting, and widening, that chasm now with their "us vs them" attitude.