Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)

[gmillerdrake]

When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business. 

totally get it.....but, you can still 'look' interested. JR and others fist pump a bit.....and display emotions. DS literally has the most disappointed look on his face the entire time. It's very off putting. Maybe he just has resting dick face? But he could make an effort to at least fake a smile or two or some type of positive interaction. 

[The Walrus]

When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business. 

You can do a lot to look engaged as a keyboardist. Derek himself used to have those stands where he'd play with the boards tipped with their backs angled at the ground; I always thought that was a cool look and comfortable for the wrists to boot. Wonder why he stopped doing that (just from what I've seen). JR has his awesome hifalutin swivel stand, I've seen Vikram Shankar of Redemption do the same. Vadim Pruzhanov (ex-Dragonforce) used to jump up and down behind his boards like a kid jacked up on sugar. Yeah you can't do sick guitar stunts or twirl your sticks but you can still engage Derek I think just likes to look serious and in the moment.

[bosk1]

When I think about it,  what is a keyboardist really supposed to do to enhance the performance,  start headbanging or running around on stage?  I think he's probably stuck in the confines of keyboard land and has a lot of notes to concentrate on. I mean, what can he really do to put on a good show?  I don't think he's much of a key-tar guy.
 I think he just likes to put on his leather jacket and try to look cool, knowing he's the most ripped keyboard player in the business. 

You can do a lot to look engaged as a keyboardist. Derek himself used to have those stands where he'd play with the boards tipped with their backs angled at the ground; I always thought that was a cool look and comfortable for the wrists to boot. Wonder why he stopped doing that (just from what I've seen). JR has his awesome hifalutin swivel stand, I've seen Vikram Shankar of Redemption do the same. Vadim Pruzhanov (ex-Dragonforce) used to jump up and down behind his boards like a kid jacked up on sugar. Yeah you can't do sick guitar stunts or twirl your sticks but you can still engage Derek I think just likes to look serious and in the moment.

And even without the "gimmicks," there is still a lot.  As Cram said:

And what could he do?  Smile is the easy answer, but if that's too difficult to do while concentrating, then just don't look like you hate everything and everyone.

Even without a cool spinny, tilty keyboard stand, you can still smile and try to look like you're having a good time.  Even without Jordan's specialized stand and his various mobile keyboards, he has always smiled.  When he wasn't playing or wasn't playing a part that demanded absolute concentration on the keys, he would (and still does) turn to the audience and smile.  When playing something that did require more concentration, he would smile.  Between songs or between parts when there was nothing going on, he would do other things: nod at the audience, fit pump, clap, etc.  Again, his look and demeanor never screamed out, "I wish I were anywhere but here!" as Derek's appears to.  And I take Derek at his word that that isn't what he is intending.  But when your business is entertaining, you need to be aware of how your audience perceives you.  And the easy comparisons to some other projects he has done where he has done those things to convey that he is engaged and glad to be there are do not help his case.

[The Walrus]

I'm serious, maybe he just needs a lava lamp or a nice rug under his feet again.

[Architeuthis]

I'm serious, maybe he just needs a lava lamp or a nice rug under his feet again.

Or perhaps "the soup",  whatever that may be.. 

[Dublagent66]

Last Saturday night's show at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd was pretty cool.  Small venue but according to Jeff, they like it that way.  Still, there were too many people in such a small space and it needed to be a little more wide open.  Everyone did a solo and they did a small tribute to Neil Peart and Rush with a portion of Tom Sawyer.  Oh yeah, and I think Derek smiled at least once. 

[cramx3]

Last Saturday night's show at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd was pretty cool.  Small venue but according to Jeff, they like it that way.  Still, there were too many people in such a small space and it needed to be a little more wide open.  Everyone did a solo and they did a small tribute to Neil Peart and Rush with a portion of Tom Sawyer.  Oh yeah, and I think Derek smiled at least once. 

Prove it!  but glad you had fun.  Regardless of any negativity I might have, I'm excited to see them in a week or so.

[Setlist Scotty]

Haven't seen SoA live yet, but judging by your comments, I have to ask: how different is the way DS is on stage with someone like Neil Peart? Neil was also known for being extremely focused on his playing and didn't look like he was having fun, yet I think the majority of people have no problem giving him a "pass". Why is it different with DS?

[SystematicThought]

Because Derek spent a lot of time ripping on DT and their lack of stage presence, cheesiness, use of technology, and likes to brag about his rockstar energy and larger than life persona. Then you see him on stage and he looks bored and judging from comments here, he’s rude in meet and greets.

Neil never claimed to be larger than life and a rockstar. Derek does and thus doesn’t get a pass for being a bored dude playing keyboards onstage.

[Dublagent66]

Last Saturday night's show at the Roxy on Sunset Blvd was pretty cool.  Small venue but according to Jeff, they like it that way.  Still, there were too many people in such a small space and it needed to be a little more wide open.  Everyone did a solo and they did a small tribute to Neil Peart and Rush with a portion of Tom Sawyer.  Oh yeah, and I think Derek smiled at least once. 

Prove it!  but glad you had fun.  Regardless of any negativity I might have, I'm excited to see them in a week or so.

Enjoy!  You won't be disappointed!

[Madman Shepherd]

Holy crap. This much discussion about whether Derek looks too bored? He is blessed/cursed being on stage with 4 other people who are very engaging. If they all just stood there, that would be a problem.

Tony Iommi is my favorite guitarist of all time. He doesn't do much on stage and I find his live playing engaging as hell. It helps that the last time I saw him there was this guy named Dio running all over the place and engaging the crowd.

Derek is fine in this regard.

I cant believe I'm going to say this but, "Leave Derek alone!!!"

[MirrorMask]

Tony Iommi is my favorite guitarist of all time. He doesn't do much on stage and I find his live playing engaging as hell. It helps that the last time I saw him there was this guy named Dio running all over the place and engaging the crowd.

Iommi has this thing that he's so legendary that just his mere presence makes him look cool. Like Rob Halford, he gets away with staying completely still or with moving like a robot.

[MoraWintersoul]

Madman, I think people are just surprised about him looking bored because that's new, and because "looking bored" is much harsher than simply being unanimated, and yet unbiased people keep saying that. JP and JMX are looking much less animated than 20 years ago, for example, but they never look bored. Derek was always such a CHARACTER. I hope he's not in pain or going through something he's hiding

[cramx3]

Holy crap. This much discussion about whether Derek looks too bored? He is blessed/cursed being on stage with 4 other people who are very engaging. If they all just stood there, that would be a problem.

Tony Iommi is my favorite guitarist of all time. He doesn't do much on stage and I find his live playing engaging as hell. It helps that the last time I saw him there was this guy named Dio running all over the place and engaging the crowd.

Derek is fine in this regard.

I cant believe I'm going to say this but, "Leave Derek alone!!!"

I'm not sure you are understanding the point, that at least I am making as it is not about just standing there.  It's the emotion displayed by him.

Let me start by saying I was not a DT fan when DS was in the band, so my knowledge of him was not much at all.  I enjoyed his work in DT and while not having watched the DVD he is on in a long time, I remember thinking he brought a different vibe to the band but thought it was cool, not the bored/disengaged vibe I get now.  (I mentioned earlier today I want to rewatch that).  So SOA was really my first DS experience which started off with some not so nice tweets to turn me off.  Now it didn't bother me as badly as some here, but it did set the tone.  I forgave and saw them in NYC, which was an awesome show and made me actually like the band, however, DS demeanor was the only negative of the show.  It was noticeable.  Not because he just stood there and played, it's specifically his facial expressions.  He could have resting bitch face.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  Come prog power I got to meet the whole band, EVERYONE was awesome and engaging until I got to the end of the line and DS didn't even look me in the eye or say anything.  I felt really turned off by him at that point.  I don't really remember watching him much at PP but the band was great as a whole again.  Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.  Then last weekend I watched my plovdiv blu-ray for the first time since I got it and noticed again how poorly engaged he was and wrote about it here again (specifically during Coming Home at the highest point at the end of the show).  Maybe I am too harsh, but the meet and greet thing really soured me on him specifically.  More so than the live performances and more so than the tweets.  That's just me though.  If he just smiled a bit it would erase a lot of my dislike, but probably not all of it at this point to be honest.  I feel like I'm going to be watching him like a hawk next week 

[Peter Mc]

Haven't seen SoA live yet, but judging by your comments, I have to ask: how different is the way DS is on stage with someone like Neil Peart? Neil was also known for being extremely focused on his playing and didn't look like he was having fun, yet I think the majority of people have no problem giving him a "pass". Why is it different with DS?

Because Neil is a drummer, not one of the two soloists in the band maybe? He’s expected to put on a bit of a show whereas a drummer is not.

[ytserush]

Honestly album reviews in general mean very little to me.  Only my own ears can tell if I will like music or not.  Same for other artistic reviews.  It's up to the viewer/listener's interpretation if they will enjoy it.

Exactly.

[pcs90]

Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.

Since this is a huge thread... Do you have a link to the details of what happened here?

[Cool Chris]

...resting bitch face...

Is this a thing?

Checking...

It is, it's got its own Wikipedia page! I have never heard of it before!

[Madman Shepherd]

Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.

That's fair and I remember reading your experience. It is a big bummer. If we were to take that bias out, I would still say this whole thing is a bit of an overreaction. When you add that in, with his overall attitude since the band began, I can understand it.

It's funny because in the song by song interviews, he seems really psyched. I wish that attitude would carry over more. It would help the average fan get more excited.

[Ben_Jamin]

...resting bitch face...

Is this a thing?

Checking...

It is, it's got its own Wikipedia page! I have never heard of it before!

You serious.

I saw a lot of that for ProgPower

[Podaar]

As some one who suffers from chronic RBFS, I'm really feeling empathy for Derek's struggles on stage. Remember, sometimes the cure comes from the sympathy of strangers. Be kind, and whenever possible, cross your eyes and stick your tongue out. That should help.

[cramx3]

Now since then, I've seen others here have similar experiences as me which makes me think it wasn't just a me thing and my benefit of doubt about resting bitch face was erased when I actually met him.  He turned me off big time as a fan.  I wrote about it here before.

Since this is a huge thread... Do you have a link to the details of what happened here?

Nah, it's somewhere on this forum, maybe not even in this thread but I have little desire to dig it up.  It's not much more than what I've already explained here though other than including my interactions with the rest of the band (which was great, including MP who was as cool as everyone had always said he was)

[Anxiety35]

I hadn't listened to Distance Over Time by DT in a while. I put it in during a 3 hour drive for work the other day. I'll have to say, I think it's a better album than the new Sons of Apollo. Not that it's a competition, but after giving MMXX a decent amount of listens, overall DOT is better as far as I'm concerned.

For Derek's face, I remember him having that face when he was with DT. I don't consider it resting bi**h face, I just think he's really concentrating on what he's doing. If you follow him on Instagram, he posts vids of him playing at his home studio and his face is the same.

Someone asked earlier in this thread why Derek doesn't lean his keyboards forward anymore. He was asked that on Instagram and his response was that he was tired of leaning over to play.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Someone asked earlier in this thread why Derek doesn't lean his keyboards forward anymore. He was asked that on Instagram and his response was that he was tired of leaning over to play.

Just imagine trying to tilt the Hammond B3..that would be something else! 
Seriously now let the man be..everyone loves to hate him as it seems..the only thing I'd like from him to improve is something that it's in his hands..literally..and that's playing his parts as he should! That's constructive criticism for ya'll! 

[bosk1]

Haven't seen SoA live yet, but judging by your comments, I have to ask: how different is the way DS is on stage with someone like Neil Peart? Neil was also known for being extremely focused on his playing and didn't look like he was having fun, yet I think the majority of people have no problem giving him a "pass". Why is it different with DS?

I think Cram and others have answered it well already, but I'll chime in as well with similar thoughts.  It isn't just that he's focused.  It's that it goes beyond that, and he looks pissed about having to be there, and doesn't engage the audience at all even when he's NOT playing and being focused.  But it's not just "failing to radiate a positive vibe"; it's more of him actively radiating a negative vibe.  And while that's an area where I might usually give a guy the benefit of the doubt, other things factor in that remove that benefit of the doubt, such as seeing him berating his tech openly on stage, eating his pre-show meal out in the open to be seen by fans while actively looking down or away when those fans make eye contact, and being fairly rude and brusque in the presence of fans.  Those things together do not paint a flattering picture.  And these things, as pointed out, from the guy who chose this tactic to describe himself:

Because Derek spent a lot of time ripping on DT and their lack of stage presence, cheesiness, use of technology, and likes to brag about his rockstar energy and larger than life persona.

Can't speak for anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from and why he seems wildly different than a guy like the one you gave in your example.

[gmillerdrake]

Pretty sure Bosk just gave the perfect description of why DS catches the flak he does for his stage persona. Particularly the phrase 'actively radiating a negative vibe' That along with the other examples listed above pretty much sums it up.

[cramx3]

Just scooped up my ticket for Thursday, under face value on stubhub by about 15 bucks (when you include fees)  also got myself a super cheap room in NYC, no idea why they are so cheap that night (I've never paid this little before) but works well for me to get to work on Friday.

[axeman90210]

I'll see you there on Thursday

[RodrigoAltaf]

I'll see them tonight in Toronto!

[Architeuthis]

I can't believe there are only thirteen U.S. dates before heading to Europe.  Is there any chance of a second leg in the states, or is it gonna turn into a Winery Dogs cycle after that?

[gzarruk]

I can't believe there are only thirteen U.S. dates before heading to Europe.  Is there any chance of a second leg in the states, or is it gonna turn into a Winery Dogs cycle after that?

MP said that depending on how well this leg went they'll do another one or not (up to promoters).

[Architeuthis]

I sure hope so!  It would be nice if they could land a opening spot for a big band that are playing arenas or amphitheaters. SOA put on such a fun and engaging show, they deserve some recognition. It would also be cool if they could co-headline with somebody like Symphony X,  Halestorm, or Nightwish here in the states.

[SystematicThought]

Haven’t they said they aren’t interested in opening for anyone? It would be cool to see them open for an established metal group

[axeman90210]

Just the opposite I think, they'd welcome it but haven't received any offers from bigger bands.

[Adami]

I wonder how much of it is money. As an opening band, they’re not going to picked up by a stadium band. Likely a bigger than them but still relatively small band. They’d make way less opening.