Poll

How would you rate psycotic Symphony on a scale from 1 to 10?

10 (highest)
8 (3.4%)
9
13 (5.6%)
8
23 (9.9%)
7
43 (18.5%)
6
33 (14.2%)
5
32 (13.8%)
4
24 (10.3%)
3
14 (6%)
2
7 (3%)
1 (lowest)
7 (3%)
0. Their online behaviour ruined it (won't listen)
28 (12.1%)

Total Members Voted: 229

Author Topic: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)  (Read 464364 times)

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Offline Art

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5880 on: January 17, 2020, 04:50:00 AM »
After listening to the album, the only song i actually liked is Desolate July. Go figure...

This is really not for me.

Offline devieira73

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5881 on: January 17, 2020, 04:57:07 AM »
So after the unison runs taken straight from The Sons of Anu in Fall to Ascend there's also a section taken from Derek's State of Delirium in the middle of Desolate July. As a fan of the originals I find it a bit weird to hear these ideas re-used in different songs.
If I understood right, MP mentioned they used some ideas from Derek’s solo albums in that interview with RodrigoAltaf. Sure it’s controversial, but personally I don’t have problem with it. I think this can be an interesting way to make more known good musical ideas that otherwise would be forgotten in some more “obscure” solo records (Vinnie Moore did the same when he recorded his first UFO album).
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Online Evermind

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5882 on: January 17, 2020, 06:29:50 AM »
I think I'll actually spin this on my commute back from work today. If I like the album, I'll consider seeing them live in March, we'll see.

Yeah, that would be a big nope for me. Considered turning it off twice during the last song but got through. Not for me. Seems like I wasn't missing anything when I decided not to listen to the first album.

After listening to the album, the only song i actually liked is Desolate July. Go figure...

This is really not for me.

Pretty much my thoughts. Also whoever said earlier in the thread that the songs have cool intros and that's it (Stadler?) was right.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5883 on: January 17, 2020, 07:13:29 AM »
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

I'm sorry to keep picking at this, but I can't help it.  I don't want to be mean or unfair to Mangini (or you), because he's excellent, there's no doubt.   But I'll listen to "boring stale complacent" Portnoy EVERY SINGLE TIME over the human Tommy Gun Mangini.  Doing crazy athletic gymnastics doesn't necessarily make good MUSIC, and isn't that the point?  This is an awkward conversation because the SOA record is problematic for me, but it's because of Jeff Soto, not Mike Portnoy.   (And this of course concedes the argument that Mangini IS furthering the instrument, but honestly, other than physical dexterity, I don't personally see a lot of that on the last couple DT records). 

Is David Gilmour legendary because every solo, every note is something new and unheard, or because every solo, every note is just right for the song, the moment, the context?   I say this respectfully, but I just think it's a shade unfair to expect a 52 year-old drummer with 35 years in the business to not be able to shift his focus as appropriate to his circumstances. 

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5884 on: January 17, 2020, 08:49:55 AM »
Well...

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5885 on: January 17, 2020, 08:57:49 AM »
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

I'm sorry to keep picking at this, but I can't help it.  I don't want to be mean or unfair to Mangini (or you), because he's excellent, there's no doubt.   But I'll listen to "boring stale complacent" Portnoy EVERY SINGLE TIME over the human Tommy Gun Mangini.  Doing crazy athletic gymnastics doesn't necessarily make good MUSIC, and isn't that the point?  This is an awkward conversation because the SOA record is problematic for me, but it's because of Jeff Soto, not Mike Portnoy.   (And this of course concedes the argument that Mangini IS furthering the instrument, but honestly, other than physical dexterity, I don't personally see a lot of that on the last couple DT records). 

Is David Gilmour legendary because every solo, every note is something new and unheard, or because every solo, every note is just right for the song, the moment, the context?   I say this respectfully, but I just think it's a shade unfair to expect a 52 year-old drummer with 35 years in the business to not be able to shift his focus as appropriate to his circumstances.

Ironic because you said this "listen to "boring stale complacent". It just doesn't make sense.

Especially when MM is finally able to craft his drumming. While MP keeps his same style.

Also....This sounds like ToT, which he wanted a different singer for. Complaining about JLB, yet JSS is even worse
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5886 on: January 17, 2020, 09:01:35 AM »
This album is only slightly better than the debut to me and that really isn't saying much. The 16 minute number is better than Opus Maximus in some ways, and yet... it really feels as long as that number looks. And crikey Jeff does not sound good. The hooks, overall, are stronger, though (imo). But once again it feels like another get-in, get-out record, a bit slapdash and unpolished.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5887 on: January 17, 2020, 09:05:35 AM »
This album is only slightly better than the debut to me and that really isn't saying much. The 16 minute number is better than Opus Maximus in some ways, and yet... it really feels as long as that number looks. And crikey Jeff does not sound good. The hooks, overall, are stronger, though (imo). But once again it feels like another get-in, get-out record, a bit slapdash and unpolished.

It basically showcases Bumble. Everyone else ia by the numbers. Honestly, I thought I was listening to ITPOE pt.1 the drums sound exactly the same.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5888 on: January 17, 2020, 09:07:50 AM »
Well, one listen in and its not as bad as some are saying, but its not great.  Not sure how it compares to the first, feels a bit heavier.  The keyboard solos are actually pretty cool on this, I'm surprised to admit.  The songs just aren't very catchy, nothing overall felt very memorable after one listen.  My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut.  I'll be listening more and have better feelings later.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5889 on: January 17, 2020, 09:21:08 AM »
Well, one listen in and its not as bad as some are saying, but its not great.  Not sure how it compares to the first, feels a bit heavier.  The keyboard solos are actually pretty cool on this, I'm surprised to admit.  The songs just aren't very catchy, nothing overall felt very memorable after one listen.  My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut.  I'll be listening more and have better feelings later.

Just finished first listen and this is my sentiment. It's not bad by any means.....these guys can play their instruments for sure. But, it's the same feeling for me I had with the first album....while the musicianship is there I have to agree with the bolded above. It's hard to explain. And, unfortunately....JSS isn't really memorable at all on this. Having seen him sing live I know he gives a good show and entertains but there's not a lot on this album from him to get excited about.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5890 on: January 17, 2020, 09:33:35 AM »
Well, one listen in and its not as bad as some are saying, but its not great.  Not sure how it compares to the first, feels a bit heavier.  The keyboard solos are actually pretty cool on this, I'm surprised to admit.  The songs just aren't very catchy, nothing overall felt very memorable after one listen.  My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut.  I'll be listening more and have better feelings later.

Just finished first listen and this is my sentiment. It's not bad by any means.....these guys can play their instruments for sure. But, it's the same feeling for me I had with the first album....while the musicianship is there I have to agree with the bolded above. It's hard to explain.
My immediate reaction is a 7/10 which I may have given the debut. 

I'd probably rate it slightly higher, but am basically right there with both of you.  As I said in my review, this new album brings nothing new to the table that the first one didn't do.  If you liked the first one, you'll probably like this.  If you didn't, you won't.  This literally could have come from the same writing sessions.  And I have no problem with that.  But at the same time, the lack of any evolution just as a writing/performing band does maybe give it a bit of a "been there, done that" feel.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5891 on: January 17, 2020, 10:26:22 AM »
And that's fine.  But, again, your "expectation" is just odd.  That isn't how music works, and especially drumming.  It's like saying, "Tom Brady is a 'world class,' elite quarterback.  Therefore, I expect him to be constantly working at throwing the ball farther.  In my personal opinion, if he does not throw farther, I just can't find him interesting.  He always throws 5-yard and 10-yard routes.  It's SO predictable.  I need to see him improve to where the ball travels 60 yards in the air after leaving his hand, or I'm done with him."

On the other hand I look at it like a Pitcher who can throw 104 mph and strike near everyone out on near every at bat.....but....although he's still perfectly capable of throwing 104 mph and striking everyone out.....he now throws nothing but change ups and gets some runs scored on him and maybe a lot of contact outs.

I just see it as MP got to a point and said "that's good enough" and kind of went on auto pilot. Which is perfectly fine. He's earned it....logged the time and still produces nice music. I'm just left to wonder about 'what could have been' had he stayed engaged ala a Mike Mangini who is always looking for ways to improve.

I'm sorry to keep picking at this, but I can't help it.  I don't want to be mean or unfair to Mangini (or you), because he's excellent, there's no doubt.   But I'll listen to "boring stale complacent" Portnoy EVERY SINGLE TIME over the human Tommy Gun Mangini.  Doing crazy athletic gymnastics doesn't necessarily make good MUSIC, and isn't that the point?  This is an awkward conversation because the SOA record is problematic for me, but it's because of Jeff Soto, not Mike Portnoy.   (And this of course concedes the argument that Mangini IS furthering the instrument, but honestly, other than physical dexterity, I don't personally see a lot of that on the last couple DT records). 

Is David Gilmour legendary because every solo, every note is something new and unheard, or because every solo, every note is just right for the song, the moment, the context?   I say this respectfully, but I just think it's a shade unfair to expect a 52 year-old drummer with 35 years in the business to not be able to shift his focus as appropriate to his circumstances.

Ironic because you said this "listen to "boring stale complacent". It just doesn't make sense.

Especially when MM is finally able to craft his drumming. While MP keeps his same style.

Also....This sounds like ToT, which he wanted a different singer for. Complaining about JLB, yet JSS is even worse

What doesn't make sense?  I don't think it's "boring stale complacent", that's just a paraphrase of what I take others to be saying.   Mike is one of a handful of drummers - Collins, Peart, Bonham - that I will put on the album/song to listen to the drummer.  Mangini is not in that group.  Whether it's drums, guitar, or keys, I'm not really impressed by pure dexterity; I want some connection as well.   It's why I prefer Gilmour or Blackmore over, say, Malmsteen or Orlando.

I respectfully think the JLB/JSS "complaint" issue is a matter of substituting your taste in for someone else's; CLEARLY, based on his choice of singers in the eight and a half years since the split he is not down on the "Steve Perry-esque" operatic singing style.  ALL his singers are of a type - Kotzen, Allen, Soto - and it's consistent.  I'm with you; I don't think it's a trade up either, and I've written that, but he's clearly looking for a more rough, "rock and roll" voice (I've long suspected he viewed "Dream Theater" as his version of his buddy Charlie's Anthrax).

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5892 on: January 17, 2020, 10:29:01 AM »
Have to say, this album has grown on me massively. First couple of listens, I felt bored. But damn, four or five listens in, I've got it. It really rather rocks.

Definitely better than the first album. If only because it doesn't have Divine Addiction or Alive on it :biggrin:
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Offline emtee

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5893 on: January 17, 2020, 11:16:54 AM »
Amazing, tight musicianship and sonic clarity,
with pretty bland vocals that sound exactly
the same from song to song.

Maybe his voice will grow on me but I'm not
hopefull.

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5894 on: January 17, 2020, 11:48:02 AM »
What a painfully generic album.

Offline devieira73

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5895 on: January 17, 2020, 11:57:21 AM »
If anyone is curious about to how they sound without vocals, the deluxe version is on Spotify.
Also if you are curious to hear Jeff without the rest of the band... ;D
I agree, although I find his vocals enjoyable, I think he’s the weakest link.
I also agree that the album has that kind of relentless vibe, like ToT.
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5896 on: January 17, 2020, 12:57:41 PM »
When I played this on spotify there were a couple of moments where I thought the musical passages sounded similar to other songs from other artists. I couldn't put my finger on it most of the time, just that I thought I'd heard it before. But the intro to Goodbye Divinity is very similar to Steve Lukather's "Twist The Knife".

All in all it's solid after one listen. Sometimes very generic and JSS is not a good singer, at least not on this record. Some songs have potential, let's see if they grow on me.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5897 on: January 17, 2020, 02:39:56 PM »
I get sometimes you just want to rock out but this album would have really benefited from more dynamic songwriting. Two albums in, the Sons of Apollo emotional palette is pretty much a mix of anger, indignance, and bravados; the songs that aren't meant to try and empower you with righteous negative energy are meant to wow you with superficial knowledge of mythology. One can understand why a bunch of middle-aged metal-heads would stick to cliches and tried-and-true songwriter forms for their first record, but I hoped after the second these guys would be comfortable enough with one another to let the guard down and write a few songs from the heart.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5898 on: January 17, 2020, 02:45:00 PM »
The guitar sound isn't even heavy here. I just got done driving to about 40 minutes of the album again, and it just... it's gross. It's dirty and sludgy but it isn't heavy, it's just filthy, and I mean all three of those adjectives in the bad way, not the good way. Soto's delivery is uniform across the entire album, as is the mood - every song delivers a variation on the same general dark, blasé energy.

There's a lot of musicianship going on, I just can't really differentiate between parts that might've been 'oh shit this is cool' to them in the studio and parts that are just there to fill in space. Lots of the shredding lacks any sense of melody too, it's a bunch of tapping and ornaments around random notes without much thought or structure to it.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5899 on: January 17, 2020, 03:06:36 PM »
I don't have the album yet , but should be here Saturday.   After reading the negative reviews here,  I'm actually excited about this album!   :metal
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5900 on: January 17, 2020, 03:59:54 PM »
I don't have the album yet , but should be here Saturday.   After reading the negative reviews here,  I'm actually excited about this album!   :metal

 :rollin

To me, it's better than the first one, by far, but it's still not quite there yet. As countless others have mentioned, JSS definitely is the weak link here, as he just doesn't have (or doesn't use) a wider dynamic range, he just sings everything in his comfort zone, adds a couple YEAHs and calls it a day (but judging by what others who are familiar with his solo material have said here, this might be a fault of the producers instead of Jeff's).

Highlights for me are King of Delusion, Desolate July and New World Today, but even these songs show some of the same flaws of the previous album. NWT, for example, flows nicely untill that weird guitar riff that sounds just like one in Opus Maximus comes in and ruins the flow of the song. Speaking of OM, Derek's keyboard solo starts the same exact way in both songs, it's as if he transcribed and copied his own solo :huh: (and I'm not talking about the intro, which, as mentioned, was lifted from one of Derek's solo albums). Speaking of... do Wither to Black and King of Delusion have the same ending?.... :facepalm:

The two songs I absolutely dislike are Wither to Black and Asphyxiation, I don't see myself ever coming back to these songs again.

The other songs (Goodbye Divinity, Fall to Ascend and Resurrection Day) aren't that good, but they're growing on me, so they might stay.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5901 on: January 17, 2020, 05:40:59 PM »
So after the unison runs taken straight from The Sons of Anu in Fall to Ascend there's also a section taken from Derek's State of Delirium in the middle of Desolate July. As a fan of the originals I find it a bit weird to hear these ideas re-used in different songs.
If I understood right, MP mentioned they used some ideas from Derek’s solo albums in that interview with RodrigoAltaf. Sure it’s controversial, but personally I don’t have problem with it. I think this can be an interesting way to make more known good musical ideas that otherwise would be forgotten in some more “obscure” solo records (Vinnie Moore did the same when he recorded his first UFO album).

And it is worth noting that Dream Theater did this as well, as the Medicate section from Octavarium has a vocal line that is very similar to one heard in James' first Mullmuzzler album (I think it is from Shores of Avalon).  I caught that the first time I heard Octavarium.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5902 on: January 17, 2020, 07:01:39 PM »
A lot of people saying Soto’s performance is the weak link here but I think that’s unfair. I think he sings ok here but it’s the actual stuff he is singing that’s the weak link. There’s just nothing memorable or catchy about pretty much any of the songs in terms of the melody. You could have Freddie Mercury in his pomp singing these songs and they’d still be no good. Soto himself is maybe responsible for the lyrics and vocal melodies, I don’t know.  If so, I’d argue his songwriting is the problem rather than his singing.

Offline Volante99

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5903 on: January 17, 2020, 07:04:37 PM »
Haven’t listened to the whole album yet but yeah, not loving it BUT

Fall to Ascend would have made an amazing Dream Theater song. That instrumental breakdown would have been right at home in Six Degrees or Train of Thought.


Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5904 on: January 17, 2020, 08:54:48 PM »
A lot of people saying Soto’s performance is the weak link here but I think that’s unfair. I think he sings ok here but it’s the actual stuff he is singing that’s the weak link. There’s just nothing memorable or catchy about pretty much any of the songs in terms of the melody. You could have Freddie Mercury in his pomp singing these songs and they’d still be no good. Soto himself is maybe responsible for the lyrics and vocal melodies, I don’t know.  If so, I’d argue his songwriting is the problem rather than his singing.

I don't know how much, but at least some of the vocal melodies are written by the other guys. Derek specifically wrote at least some of it in Desolate July. I agree though, that it's unfair to call Soto the weak link. I mean, Billy probably is if there is one. He doesn't stand out much and he's the only one that didn't write anything.

As for my verdict, I think this is a pretty big improvement from the first one. I don't think the album is excellent but it has a lot of killer moments, cool riffs, melodies, etc. Even the more generic songs seem less generic than the generic songs on the first one.

New World Today seemed a bit out of place but I ended up liking it all right. If I had to rate the album, I would concur with some others here and give it a 7. I think I gave the first one a 5, and looking back, it may have been a bit generous.

Edit: I got the deluxe digipak and the booklet is pretty janky. The printing is a bit crooked on the first page and then i noticed there were no song titles. Kind of weird. Then for the lyrics for the fifth track onward, the title is prominent across the side of the page. It has to be a fuck up by somebody.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5905 on: January 17, 2020, 10:38:12 PM »
I'm not even sure I notice the VH influences besides them covering a song or two.

I don't mind their niche either.  I'm more of a metal guy than prog, and generally like a little prog mixed with all my metal so in theory, this is right up my ally.  The songs just aren't terribly strong IMO, that's all.  Some other things like Jeff's samey vocals are minor issues to me, but the songs just mostly don't stick to my ears.

At this point, even if I don't like the album (I expect to find it decent, but not mindblowing) I still plan on seeing them because I know it will be a fun show, but if there's nothing on the new album that sticks to my ears, I'm not sure what the future will be here for them. 

I think back about last years Winery Dogs show and I feel that band has so much more potential than SOA because they right catchy songs to a bigger audience (rock vs. prog metal).  MP/BS would be better off investing their time there IMO.  That venue was PACKED and 3 times the size of what SOA are playing in NYC this tour.

For one, the Winery Dogs have a much higher profile as they have toured a lot more and have gotten radio airplay although I suspect any mainstream acceptance was because of Kotzen.

That said, I think the Winery Dogs are slightly more interesting to me because, as a trio, they have more space to fill and there seems to be room to make things more interesting (especially live) I'm sure if it were up to Mike and Billy, they would want to continue with that but apparently Kotzen wants to focus on a solo career or other projects or something. Have there been any updates on the Winery Dogs front or are they history?

Offline ytserush

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5906 on: January 17, 2020, 10:41:59 PM »
Oh my god, I actually forgot that this came out today :lolpalm:



You're not the only one.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5907 on: January 18, 2020, 02:12:48 AM »
I'm not even sure I notice the VH influences besides them covering a song or two.

I don't mind their niche either.  I'm more of a metal guy than prog, and generally like a little prog mixed with all my metal so in theory, this is right up my ally.  The songs just aren't terribly strong IMO, that's all.  Some other things like Jeff's samey vocals are minor issues to me, but the songs just mostly don't stick to my ears.

At this point, even if I don't like the album (I expect to find it decent, but not mindblowing) I still plan on seeing them because I know it will be a fun show, but if there's nothing on the new album that sticks to my ears, I'm not sure what the future will be here for them. 

I think back about last years Winery Dogs show and I feel that band has so much more potential than SOA because they right catchy songs to a bigger audience (rock vs. prog metal).  MP/BS would be better off investing their time there IMO.  That venue was PACKED and 3 times the size of what SOA are playing in NYC this tour.

For one, the Winery Dogs have a much higher profile as they have toured a lot more and have gotten radio airplay although I suspect any mainstream acceptance was because of Kotzen.

That said, I think the Winery Dogs are slightly more interesting to me because, as a trio, they have more space to fill and there seems to be room to make things more interesting (especially live) I'm sure if it were up to Mike and Billy, they would want to continue with that but apparently Kotzen wants to focus on a solo career or other projects or something. Have there been any updates on the Winery Dogs front or are they history?

MP spoke about TWD in my interview with him. Richie is doing an anniversary tour this year, and there's a will to record a third album once that's done. I think that TWD is the best thing MP has done since leaving DT, and it's not his fault that it didn't take off as expected. After the success of the second album and tour, Richie decided to do another solo album, and this put the band in the backseat. That's why MP got a window to put together Sons of Apollo.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5908 on: January 18, 2020, 02:55:20 AM »
I like SOA much much more than the Winery Dogs!
You can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast, you can make the most of the distance, first you need endurance first you've got to last....... NP

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5909 on: January 18, 2020, 04:14:33 AM »
The Winery Dogs are just as dead in the water as these are unfortunately. They’re perfectly listenable, probably the most listenable of the post DT projects (discounting bands he was already in like TA and NMB) but there’s nothing remarkable about them that stands out. They do catchy radio friendly rock songs but so do a LOT of other more successful and more accomplished bands, they don’t fill any kind of gap in the market.  Why would most people buy a TWD album when they could buy a Slash album or Alter Bridge or countless others.  Like I said, they’re not bad but they’re not good enough to stand out from the crowd either. 

Prog metal is a much smaller pond with Mike and (to a lesser extent) Derek already being fairly big fish in that pond so Sons Of Apollo had a bit of a head start and existing fans avidly waiting for what they’d do especially when they were telling all and sundry that they’d made a classic, were better than DT and were the new kings of prog. The problem is they weren’t good enough to capitalise on that head start as they made a decidedly average first album and Dream Theater then made an album that was light years beyond it to show who the true kings were without ever having to open their mouth.

Soto was surprisingly candid when promoting this album to say (in so many words) that the first album/tour hadn’t done as well as they’d hoped and it had looked like album number 2 wouldn’t happen. I don’t see this going any better.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5910 on: January 18, 2020, 07:30:09 AM »
MP spoke about TWD in my interview with him. Richie is doing an anniversary tour this year, and there's a will to record a third album once that's done. I think that TWD is the best thing MP has done since leaving DT, and it's not his fault that it didn't take off as expected. After the success of the second album and tour, Richie decided to do another solo album, and this put the band in the backseat. That's why MP got a window to put together Sons of Apollo.

Richie pulled an MP on TWD :lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Anxiety35

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5911 on: January 18, 2020, 03:41:43 PM »
The new release is much better than the first. However, it's not "oh my gosh amazing." I think the band is still trying to figure out who they are musically. This is why the supergroup concept sounds cool, but there are 5 guys who have their background of 20+ years each as their musical DNA and to me, SOA sounds like these guys are in a musical casserole instead of a blender. Things are there but they don't quite seem to mesh. It's like Derek has his stuff, Thal has his, MP has his, and so on. Therefore it's just thrown together and put in the oven. You have what you have when it comes out.

My initial thoughts...

Overall the album is heavier than the first release.
I like Derek's playing much better on this one than the previous.
Glad they gave Billy some bass solo spots.
Portnoy plays to the music and throws in his usual fills. Nothing new from him.
I don't care for Thal's guitar tone and his solos seem out of place in relation to the rest of the music. He's a monster player though.
Not a fan of Soto with SOA. The "Yowww!!" and "Yeahhh!!" screams are annoying. With his lack of dynamic, it almost sounds like it could be a vocal demo. This may be the direction of MP and Derek and not solely on Soto.

I give it a 7 out of 10.
 

Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5912 on: January 18, 2020, 03:53:52 PM »
Soto was surprisingly candid when promoting this album to say (in so many words) that the first album/tour hadn’t done as well as they’d hoped and it had looked like album number 2 wouldn’t happen. I don’t see this going any better.

Did Jeff elaborate on what exactly they had hoped for?  I mean only Dream Theater and maybe Kansas seem to have massive crowds in the American-based Prog Rock/Metal realm anymore.

As for this album, nothing reaches Opus Maximus for me, but I really like Desolate July (RIP David Z), New World Today, and Derek's opening to King of Delusion.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5913 on: January 18, 2020, 05:39:45 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQaH69XgvQY&feature=youtu.be

What a statement in the mid of the promotion of the album by JSS

This was the thing I was talking about where he says they nearly didn’t come back as things didn’t go like they hoped.  What he says is slightly different to what I remember but I still think the gist of it is that it was all a bit of a struggle, the band aren’t as big as they should be and ultimately they almost never continued.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Sons of Apollo (feat. Portnoy & Sherinian)
« Reply #5914 on: January 18, 2020, 07:29:31 PM »
But who is to say how big they "should be"? 

I checked out a few of the new tunes on YT and it's clear why they aren't bigger; the songs aren't there. There are good moments, but they seem to get lost in the blandness of many of the others.  The long song, New World Today, was a total and complete mess.  I get that the "sudden left turn syndrome" has been done well by Portnoy's other bands before (see: Dream Theater), but that song seems to randomly bounce from idea to idea with no sense of purpose whatsoever and then the song is over.  Bummer, as the lead guitar that kicked off the song was pretty cool, but then the trainwreck happened. 

Maybe it is not fair to call Soto the weak link, but I am definitely someone who finds his voice and most of the vocal melodies pretty bland and forgettable.  You either connect with a voice or you don't, and I do not connect with his voice in any way at all.  Because they wanted to make it a direct competition, Soto, from what I've heard, cannot come to the greatness of JLB.  La Brie might be very hit or miss live (always has been for me), but he always brings it in the studio, and it is actually hilarious that some Portnoy fans (who love to hate JLB online) talk shit on JLB while praising Soto.  I get it, it's the internet, where people are allowed to have bad opinions, but that is one of the more LOL-worthy ones of recent years.