Author Topic: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions  (Read 68888 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1050 on: June 04, 2018, 12:44:57 PM »
I thought Curry should have been the Finals MVP in 2015, so getting it this year will be some poetic justice.

Seems like many think Durant is better, but I will take Curry over him.  He is more valuable and lights up that crowd way more than Durant ever could.

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1051 on: June 04, 2018, 01:07:22 PM »
For some reason, I still don't see Durant as a core member of GSW.  He still feels like a 'hired gun' vs part of the team.  That's just my perception.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1052 on: June 04, 2018, 01:49:38 PM »
Yeah, I get that.  I think fans here somewhat feel that way as well, but to a lesser degree.  Part of the issue is that their true core was together for SEVERAL years and already proved they could get to the go all the way before he got here.  Another part of it is that he is a longtime veteran player with ties to another community.  And yet another part of it is that there are still streaks when he gets away from that part of the "team ball" aspect of what the Warriors do.  Granted, the rest of the team is guilty of that too when they get lazy.  But since he was an "outsider," it feels different when he does it.  I think when this contract is up will be telling.  If he sticks around, especially if he again sacrifices some money to do it, will make him feel like more of the then-existing core of the team.  If he bolts, he will cement his "hired gun" status.  We'll see.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1053 on: June 04, 2018, 02:15:29 PM »
I don't see why he would bolt unless they start struggling financially. He has a poor reputation in the rest of the league for jumping into that team already. Unless he is soooo desperate to prove that he can win a championship without a super-duper team around him. But still, I don't think that will happen.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1054 on: June 04, 2018, 02:29:17 PM »
Who knows?  What if, for example, L.A. or Miami wanted to put together a super team with him and LeBron and were able to make it more financially attractive than what the Warriors have to offer?  I'm not sure where his heart would lie in such circumstances.  Steph, Klay, and Draymond want to be "Warriors 'til death."  I'm not sure KD feels nearly that much of a tie to the team.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1055 on: June 04, 2018, 04:55:05 PM »
For some reason, I still don't see Durant as a core member of GSW.  He still feels like a 'hired gun' vs part of the team.  That's just my perception.

He feels like icing on the cake to me, in that they really don't need him, but he is there to sweeten thinks up.  They'd still be the best team without him, but he's an extra treat that makes them that much better.

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1056 on: June 04, 2018, 05:11:41 PM »
And insurance when somebody else goes down.  And I'm glad.  It isn't talked about much, but every single one of the true "core" lineup that was here from the beginning of the championship run through this season (Curry, Thompson, Green, Iguodala, and Livingston), as well as Durant, have been injured and missed multiple games this year in the regular season and/or playoffs.  It's good to have an extra deep team. 
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1057 on: June 04, 2018, 06:49:58 PM »
I would love to see him get it as well.  I think he is truly deserving.  And I also strongly dislike the narrative about some in the NBA that he isn't a "real" basketball player.  That alone makes me really want him to get that to put alongside his championship rings and regular season MVP trophy.

Hmm... makes me wonder what or who is considered as real then...
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1058 on: June 06, 2018, 09:19:39 AM »
Revisiting a couple of things from game 1:  Screw LeBron James and screw the Cleveland Cavaliers team.  Despite my obvious dislike of both, I've tried to give the benefit of the doubt.  I mean, concerning LeBron in particular, I have to acknowledge that someone in his shoes is naturally going to be challenged in a lot of ways because of what an abnormal life he has led.  Even as a kid, he was told he was going to be great and would be a superstar.  He has had celebrity status and money all his adult life.  Of course he is going to be challenged in being a "grounded" "down-to-earth" person.  I get that, and I give a lot of credit to how he has still managed to come across as decent in a lot of situations. 

1.  The play.  The uncut footage after J.R. Smith's gaffe is pretty telling.  For those who haven't seen it:  https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/2bdae06b-9d08-30fc-93c4-c2b3f04c942c/ss_uncut-footage-shows-just-how.html  And this is where I have to criticize LeBron and the Cavs team and coaches as a whole.  Smith knew he screwed up.  And I can understand LeBron being upset.  But during that short span after the play and before overtime, NOBODY came to him to try to pick him up and rally him.  In fact, nobody tried to rally the team, really.  Right at the very last second, Corver and Thompson did a little bit.  But mostly, the team, including their self-declared leader, sat there moping.  No wonder they lost in overtime, and lost huge (what was it, a 17-7 overtime?).  There was NO sense of unity, NO sense of team, and NO sense of leadership whatsoever.  LeBron was asked some more questions about it yesterday, I think it was.  And his response was along the lines of, "You're going to criticize ME?  It's not on ME to pick up my team.  This is the NBA finals."  Uh, yeah, it totally IS on YOU.  You are the team leader, both because you have asserted and proclaimed yourself to have that role in every way possible, and because you are the team's veteran superstar.  It is COMPLETELY on you to rally your team and prepare them for that overtime.  You failed them, LeBron.  And they failed each other.  They acted like the game was over, when there was still an overtime period left to play.  Pick up your teammates and PLAY THE GAME.  You were fortunate to even be in the finals.  You were even more fortunate to still be in a position to steal game 1 in Oakland heading into overtime.  Suck it up and PLAY THE GAME.  And especially, rally to J.R. Smith so that he can get his head back in the game instead of him almost assuredly having his head on that final 4.6 of regulation.  Most people would be a basket case after that.  It's on his teammates, and especially LeBron, to let him know they have his back and that they need to get out there and PLAY until the final buzzer.  Newsflash--J.R. Smith did not LOSE that game!  Hill needed to make his freethrows.  He didn't.  Smith made a brilliant rebound by evading Durant's box out, and at least prevented the Warriors from taking a buzzer-beater win.  He could have taken the ball right back up.  Maybe he gets fouled and puts the game away.  Or maybe he makes the shot.  But maybe Durant, who was in position, blocks the shot.  Or he could have quickly kicked it to LeBron.  Maybe LeBron makes the buzzer beater.  Maybe not.  But the game was tied.  Yes, J.R. made a gaffe.  It would have been an inexcusable one if the Cavs were trailing.  But it was tied.  They were assured overtime in any case.  J.R. didn't lose the game.  He just kept the Cavs from winning it in regulation.  If the team had any heart and any leadership, they should have come out on fire in overtime and competed.  They didn't.  That's on them as a team.  That's on the coaching staff.  And that's on LeBron.  If I'm a Cavs fan, I would be more pissed at him than at Smith.  Yes, his 51 points and his leadership put them in position to win it in the first place.  But his completely and utter failure to lead his team heading into overtime cost them, and that is all on him.

2.  The foul.  Golden State got lucky it was reviewed.  But Cleveland got lucky the initial call was charging anyway.  A careful look at the review shows that it wasn't.  As to whether LeBron had his feet planted, it is a VERY close call.  And that is what most are focusing on.  But his upper body really is the key.  His shoulders were FAR from being square, and he threw his upper body into Durant.  That's a blocking foul, plain and simple.  They ultimately got the call right.  And although there isn't talk about it, Green smashing into Durant's right arm and shoulder was also a foul. 

The only issue is the review.  Again, Golden State got lucky.  Acknowledged.  But both refs on the floor were focused on the body contact.  They weren't focused on where LeBron's feet were.  In the split second it took for that all to go down, they missed it, and then saw three bodies lying on the ground in the restricted area.  They were deciding whether to review, when Durant, who had seen the exact same situation play out at the end of regulation in a regular season game, and thus knew the rule, properly lobbied them to review it.  So they did.  The decision to review, under the circumstances, is hardly an egregious one. 

It felt like that call was the backbreaker.  I'm tempted to just repeat what Kev has said in various other sports threads and just say "So what?  Blown calls don't win/lose games.  If you're good enough to win, you have to show it and play well enough to overcome the bad call.  If you can't do that, then you AREN'T really that good."  But I don't think that's realistic.  Sports games are highly situational, and momentum is real.  A call by the refs in a key moment of a game can alter the course of events significantly.  This is one of those, and I think that should be acknowledged.  Golden State got the rare break from the officials, and it had a big impact on the Cavs not winning.  But at the end of the day, the refs unquestionably made the right call.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1059 on: June 06, 2018, 09:31:10 AM »
For some reason, I still don't see Durant as a core member of GSW.  He still feels like a 'hired gun' vs part of the team.  That's just my perception.

He feels like icing on the cake to me, in that they really don't need him, but he is there to sweeten thinks up.  They'd still be the best team without him, but he's an extra treat that makes them that much better.


 There's no way of knowing if they win last years' championship with out him, or if they even sneak by the Rockets without him this year. Sure they'd be perennial contenders without him and they accomplished a lot before he got there, but he is certainly a huge part of their success since joining the team.

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1060 on: June 06, 2018, 09:53:01 AM »
For some reason, I still don't see Durant as a core member of GSW.  He still feels like a 'hired gun' vs part of the team.  That's just my perception.

He feels like icing on the cake to me, in that they really don't need him, but he is there to sweeten thinks up.  They'd still be the best team without him, but he's an extra treat that makes them that much better.


 There's no way of knowing if they win last years' championship with out him, or if they even sneak by the Rockets without him this year. Sure they'd be perennial contenders without him and they accomplished a lot before he got there, but he is certainly a huge part of their success since joining the team.

It's an interesting discussion to have.  When he is playing the Warriors way, he definitely takes them to another level.  And interestingly enough, he often shines the most when he lets the offense run through Curry and lets Curry be the engine.  But he often does not, and when he doesn't, I feel like he is a detriment, and despite putting up good numbers, takes the team down a notch. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1061 on: June 06, 2018, 04:51:35 PM »
For some reason, I still don't see Durant as a core member of GSW.  He still feels like a 'hired gun' vs part of the team.  That's just my perception.

He feels like icing on the cake to me, in that they really don't need him, but he is there to sweeten thinks up.  They'd still be the best team without him, but he's an extra treat that makes them that much better.


 There's no way of knowing if they win last years' championship with out him, or if they even sneak by the Rockets without him this year. Sure they'd be perennial contenders without him and they accomplished a lot before he got there, but he is certainly a huge part of their success since joining the team.

True.  With both teams pretty much at full strength two years ago, the Cavs beat the Warriors, and then it took the Warriors running out and begging who many call the 2nd best player in the league to join their team because they knew they couldn't beat James without stacking their team more than any team has ever been stacked.

As for the quote, ""So what?  Blown calls don't win/lose games.  If you're good enough to win, you have to show it and play well enough to overcome the bad call.  If you can't do that, then you AREN'T really that good." I have never said that or anything close to that.  The "you have to overcome bad calls" mantra is Joe's phrase, not mine.

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1062 on: June 06, 2018, 04:56:47 PM »
True.  With both teams pretty much at full strength two years ago, the Cavs beat the Warriors, and then it took the Warriors running out and begging who many call the 2nd best player in the league to join their team because they knew they couldn't beat James without stacking their team more than any team has ever been stacked.

That's an interesting bit of revisionist history there. 

As for the quote, ""So what?  Blown calls don't win/lose games.  If you're good enough to win, you have to show it and play well enough to overcome the bad call.  If you can't do that, then you AREN'T really that good." I have never said that or anything close to that.  The "you have to overcome bad calls" mantra is Joe's phrase, not mine.

It is a paraphrase, as I said.  And I've seen you make that argument plenty of times in the various iterations of the NFL threads. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1063 on: June 06, 2018, 05:02:10 PM »
Nope. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1064 on: June 06, 2018, 05:26:43 PM »
Even though I do not watch him, I do enjoy reading stories about Skip Bayless making an ass out of himself. To wit:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/06/nba-finals-lebron-james-tired-michael-jordan-skip-bayless

 :lol :lol :lol

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1065 on: June 06, 2018, 05:56:05 PM »
I was wondering where Bayless had disappeared to.  As far as the article, I dunno.  Yeah, Bayless says some stupid things.  But that article seems to miss the point of what Bayless was saying almost as much as Bayless misses the point about...well, pretty much everything.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1066 on: June 06, 2018, 07:48:40 PM »
Is it just me? The Warriors don't seem to be pushing the ball as much as they did in Game 1 & 2.... are they saving energy? Or are they trying to give the LeBrons' one game or something?   ???
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1067 on: June 06, 2018, 08:12:09 PM »
Golden St seems to have one of these games a series, where it seems like they just show up instead of looking motivated to win.  The good news for them is that they can shoot their way back into any game. 

And just when we were ready to give Curry the Finals MVP award, he comes out and looks awful tonight.  Meanwhile, Durant looks great.


Offline Lonk

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1068 on: June 06, 2018, 08:16:00 PM »
There has been a few missed calls so far for both teams but 13FT to nothing is a bit much when Cle has more drives and 2 point shots.

I expect the warriors to take the lead in the 3 but ultimately losing the game.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1069 on: June 07, 2018, 07:20:57 AM »
Even though I do not watch him, I do enjoy reading stories about Skip Bayless making an ass out of himself. To wit:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/06/nba-finals-lebron-james-tired-michael-jordan-skip-bayless

 :lol :lol :lol

My all-time favorite Skip Bayless moment was a week or two ago: The Warriors were losing to Houston at halftime. Bayless tweets that Golden State won't turn it around because Steve Kerr is too nice to light a fire under them. Never mind that the Warriors were the best third-quarter team all season. Armchair psychology is obviously much more relevant.

What ended up happening? Golden State held the Rockets to like 30 points in the second half and drubbed them. :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1070 on: June 07, 2018, 08:24:18 AM »
Golden St seems to have one of these games a series, where it seems like they just show up instead of looking motivated to win.  The good news for them is that they can shoot their way back into any game. 

And just when we were ready to give Curry the Finals MVP award, he comes out and looks awful tonight.  Meanwhile, Durant looks great.

Agreed with all of that.  This was NOT a good game for them.  The bad news for the Cavs is that, despite the Warriors (and Curry!) playing horribly most of the night, they still won. 

And yeah, Curry was VERY flat.  Uncharacteristically so.  But still hits his characteristic late-game dagger to help put the game away.  Amazing.

And to double down on my long ranty post above, where was LeBron?  I mean, game-play-wise, I can't criticize.  His numbers speak for themselves.  But I swear, every time there was a break, and for the brief time he was on the bench, he was a "no-show" in terms of NOT being there to encourage his team.  He didn't talk them up.  He didn't motivate.  He really didn't lead at all.  He may be the greatest basketball player of all time.  But other than that, no thanks.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1071 on: June 07, 2018, 08:34:13 AM »
Golden St seems to have one of these games a series, where it seems like they just show up instead of looking motivated to win.  The good news for them is that they can shoot their way back into any game. 

And just when we were ready to give Curry the Finals MVP award, he comes out and looks awful tonight.  Meanwhile, Durant looks great.

Agreed with all of that.  This was NOT a good game for them.  The bad news for the Cavs is that, despite the Warriors (and Curry!) playing horribly most of the night, they still won. 

And yeah, Curry was VERY flat.  Uncharacteristically so.  But still hits his characteristic late-game dagger to help put the game away.  Amazing.

And to double down on my long ranty post above, where was LeBron?  I mean, game-play-wise, I can't criticize.  His numbers speak for themselves.  But I swear, every time there was a break, and for the brief time he was on the bench, he was a "no-show" in terms of NOT being there to encourage his team.  He didn't talk them up.  He didn't motivate.  He really didn't lead at all.  He may be the greatest basketball player of all time.  But other than that, no thanks.


I agree. He's a tremendous talent. But he's no leader.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1072 on: June 07, 2018, 10:53:19 AM »
Colangelo "resigns".  Good riddance!

Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1073 on: June 07, 2018, 10:58:13 AM »
I think LBJ’s frustration is boiling over. I think he’s sick of carrying this subpar roster. He’s bitching at the officials waaaay too much. It was almost embarrassing how many times he threw his arms up looking for a whistle last night. That’s what playing the Warriors can do to ya.

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1074 on: June 07, 2018, 11:04:34 AM »
I think LBJ’s frustration is boiling over. I think he’s sick of carrying this subpar roster. He’s bitching at the officials waaaay too much. It was almost embarrassing how many times he threw his arms up looking for a whistle last night.

I couldn't agree more.  His tank has got to be running dry.  47:52 last night!?!?!?
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1075 on: June 07, 2018, 11:42:11 AM »
I agree that LBJ has probably reached his boiling point. It's one of those situations where you empathize but still cannot condone. All that whining doesn't help anyone, least of all him.
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1076 on: June 08, 2018, 06:27:42 AM »
He’s bitching at the officials waaaay too much. It was almost embarrassing how many times he threw his arms up looking for a whistle last night.

This happens every single game. Lebron is one of the players that complains the most to refs, I don't think this has anything to do with frustration against the warriors.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1077 on: June 08, 2018, 09:44:16 AM »
This kind of sums up why Klay Thompson is probably my favorite all-time NBA player, and perhaps my favorite all-time professional athlete:  https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23707867/klay-thompson-glue-holds-golden-state-warriors-together-nba-finals
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1078 on: June 08, 2018, 09:32:21 PM »
 :hat

Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1079 on: June 08, 2018, 09:33:52 PM »
Congratulations to the Warriors, and all other Dubs fans. James played great in these playoffs. All in all, this off season will be fun.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1080 on: June 08, 2018, 09:36:57 PM »
Wake me up when more than 3-4 teams have a legit chance to win a championship in a given season.

Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1081 on: June 08, 2018, 09:39:22 PM »
Wake me up when more than 3-4 teams have a legit chance to win a championship in a given season.

If not for those untimely injuries, we already have the Cavs, Warriors, Celtics and thr Rockets this year.  Add one more next year... my Lakers... :hat  :metal  :lol
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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1082 on: June 08, 2018, 09:53:16 PM »
LeGone

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1083 on: June 09, 2018, 05:05:03 AM »
Foregone conclusion plays itself out.  My only solace is that the Cavs got done to them what they did to the Raptors - sweep with game 4 being a blowout.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2017-18 v. I dub thee champions
« Reply #1084 on: June 09, 2018, 06:40:48 AM »
Wake me up when more than 3-4 teams have a legit chance to win a championship in a given season.

Sadly, the NBA is like that most of the time, although you will occasionally get a surprise champion like the '04 Pistons or '11 Mavericks. By and large, however, the champion is almost always one of a handful of teams discussed at the beginning of the season as being one of the teams with a great chance to win it.