Poll

What are your favorites of these Iron Maiden songs?

Strange World
11 (4.5%)
Innocent Exile
5 (2.1%)
Twilight Zone
4 (1.7%)
Invaders
14 (5.8%)
The Prisoner
25 (10.3%)
Die With Your Boots On
17 (7%)
Sun and Steel
6 (2.5%)
The Duellists
11 (4.5%)
Sea of Madness
23 (9.5%)
The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner
14 (5.8%)
The Prophecy
13 (5.4%)
Run Silent Run Deep
6 (2.5%)
Judas Be My Guide
12 (5%)
Look For the Truth
3 (1.2%)
The Unbeliever
6 (2.5%)
Lightning Strikes Twice
4 (1.7%)
The Educated Fool
5 (2.1%)
The Fallen Angel
11 (4.5%)
Montsegur
17 (7%)
New Frontier
2 (0.8%)
The Pilgrim
4 (1.7%)
Out of the Shadows
4 (1.7%)
Mother of Mercy
8 (3.3%)
The Alchemist
6 (2.5%)
When the River Runs Deep
6 (2.5%)
The Man Of Sorrows
5 (2.1%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Senjutsu  (Read 183478 times)

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Online cramx3

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1015 on: August 18, 2017, 07:12:55 AM »
Also, if you haven't seen/listened to this version of Tears of a Clown, I highly suggest you check it out (that instrumental breakdown  :metal):

Tribuzy (featuring Bruce Dickinson and Roy Z) performing Tears of a Clown the Dragon live

Wrong band/song, right singer...  :biggrin:

LOL at the song, but who is the band?  I only went off youtube, not familiar at all with who that band actually is.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1016 on: August 18, 2017, 08:50:31 AM »

Ozzy's success was, like most things in his life it seems, a freak accident. The fact that he even lived through the 80s, let alone with a really successful solo career, is amazing. That being said, Ozzy and Dio also had really good timing. Many other artists went solo later in the 80s or in the 90s and missed their wave. The problem with the Geoff Tate solo career is that people lost interest in him long before he left Queensryche.

If Ozzy played on one, or two, or even three classic records, I would agree that he's been the lucky recipient of a freak accident.  But for me, he's sustained it now for 48 years, and I have a really hard time dismissing that as a "freak accident".  It wasn't just his partners; even when Sabbath was not getting along, they put out great music.   I personally don't think there's a duff record in the Ozzy Sabbath catalogue (yes, Never Say Die is not the same style as Paranoid, but honestly, I think that's a matter of taste more than anything else).   The two Randy records are masterpieces - at least the second one is - but Bark is a very good album (with Jake) and he has at least two classic records with Zakk (No More Tears and Ozzmosis; No Rest For The Wicked has its moments).   For my money, he's only really gone off the rails with the last two, Black Rain and Scream, but that's a stylistic issue (I miss the more classic NWOBHM stylings of the older Ozzy stuff). 

I do agree - and hadn't thought of this before - that Dio and Ozzy went solo at the "right time".  That early, mid 80's period for metal was pretty robust and strong, and both Dio and Ozzy were out there, and both put out two great albums right in a row (Blizzard and Diary, Holy Diver and The Last In Line).   Some of that is clearly luck, but some isn't.  They were good performers backing good material.

As with a lot of musicians, I think it is both:  luck/timing AND talent/writing good songs.  To go back to Mosh's example of Geoff Tate, part of his problem was timing.  But a huge part of it was that the songs on his solo album just weren't good.

Ozzy and RJD also had the advantage of great guitarists too. Tate went the other way, into a direction away from any fan base he had.

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1017 on: August 18, 2017, 10:11:59 AM »
Also, if you haven't seen/listened to this version of Tears of a Clown, I highly suggest you check it out (that instrumental breakdown  :metal):

Tribuzy (featuring Bruce Dickinson and Roy Z) performing Tears of a Clown the Dragon live

Wrong band/song, right singer...  :biggrin:

LOL at the song, but who is the band?  I only went off youtube, not familiar at all with who that band actually is.

I just meant that listed it as the maiden song title. To be honest, I'm not sure who all those guys are in that clip. I know Roy, but I'm lost beyond that.
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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1018 on: August 18, 2017, 10:40:58 AM »
Also, if you haven't seen/listened to this version of Tears of a Clown, I highly suggest you check it out (that instrumental breakdown  :metal):

Tribuzy (featuring Bruce Dickinson and Roy Z) performing Tears of a Clown the Dragon live

Wrong band/song, right singer...  :biggrin:

LOL at the song, but who is the band?  I only went off youtube, not familiar at all with who that band actually is.

I just meant that listed it as the maiden song title. To be honest, I'm not sure who all those guys are in that clip. I know Roy, but I'm lost beyond that.

That band is Brazilian, and the singer is Renato Tribuzy. That show was a one off event.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1019 on: August 18, 2017, 10:42:44 AM »

Offline Mosh

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1020 on: August 18, 2017, 11:35:41 AM »

Ozzy's success was, like most things in his life it seems, a freak accident. The fact that he even lived through the 80s, let alone with a really successful solo career, is amazing. That being said, Ozzy and Dio also had really good timing. Many other artists went solo later in the 80s or in the 90s and missed their wave. The problem with the Geoff Tate solo career is that people lost interest in him long before he left Queensryche.

If Ozzy played on one, or two, or even three classic records, I would agree that he's been the lucky recipient of a freak accident.  But for me, he's sustained it now for 48 years, and I have a really hard time dismissing that as a "freak accident".  It wasn't just his partners; even when Sabbath was not getting along, they put out great music.   I personally don't think there's a duff record in the Ozzy Sabbath catalogue (yes, Never Say Die is not the same style as Paranoid, but honestly, I think that's a matter of taste more than anything else).   The two Randy records are masterpieces - at least the second one is - but Bark is a very good album (with Jake) and he has at least two classic records with Zakk (No More Tears and Ozzmosis; No Rest For The Wicked has its moments).   For my money, he's only really gone off the rails with the last two, Black Rain and Scream, but that's a stylistic issue (I miss the more classic NWOBHM stylings of the older Ozzy stuff). 
I should clarify that I don't mean freak accident in the sense that Ozzy got lucky and that wasn't meant to be dismissive. If Ozzy didn't have the great material and live act, none of this would matter. But he also had the right timing and somehow managed to never lose relevance when his contemporaries were struggling. You could make a great album and still go unnoticed for a number of reasons, just ask Bruce. Anyway, the point was that it's almost unfair to use Ozzy as a benchmark for solo careers because his success is an outlier.

I was going to post X Factor today, but there's some good discussion happening so I'll wait a day or two.
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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1021 on: August 18, 2017, 07:23:25 PM »
I must say that I hardly ever listen to Alive In Studio A. Not sure why..
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1022 on: August 19, 2017, 09:05:54 AM »

Ozzy's success was, like most things in his life it seems, a freak accident. The fact that he even lived through the 80s, let alone with a really successful solo career, is amazing. That being said, Ozzy and Dio also had really good timing. Many other artists went solo later in the 80s or in the 90s and missed their wave. The problem with the Geoff Tate solo career is that people lost interest in him long before he left Queensryche.

If Ozzy played on one, or two, or even three classic records, I would agree that he's been the lucky recipient of a freak accident.  But for me, he's sustained it now for 48 years, and I have a really hard time dismissing that as a "freak accident".  It wasn't just his partners; even when Sabbath was not getting along, they put out great music.   I personally don't think there's a duff record in the Ozzy Sabbath catalogue (yes, Never Say Die is not the same style as Paranoid, but honestly, I think that's a matter of taste more than anything else).   The two Randy records are masterpieces - at least the second one is - but Bark is a very good album (with Jake) and he has at least two classic records with Zakk (No More Tears and Ozzmosis; No Rest For The Wicked has its moments).   For my money, he's only really gone off the rails with the last two, Black Rain and Scream, but that's a stylistic issue (I miss the more classic NWOBHM stylings of the older Ozzy stuff). 
I should clarify that I don't mean freak accident in the sense that Ozzy got lucky and that wasn't meant to be dismissive. If Ozzy didn't have the great material and live act, none of this would matter. But he also had the right timing and somehow managed to never lose relevance when his contemporaries were struggling. You could make a great album and still go unnoticed for a number of reasons, just ask Bruce. Anyway, the point was that it's almost unfair to use Ozzy as a benchmark for solo careers because his success is an outlier.

I was going to post X Factor today, but there's some good discussion happening so I'll wait a day or two.

Let's not kid ourselves.  Ozzy(tm) was the OG of BS, and the benefactor of Iommi's amazing riff writing.

As a solo act, he has 3 excellent albums written by other people (who were the real talent).   That guy is still relevant today for one reason, and one reason ONLY.   MARKETING.   He has successful created a "brand".   So he has Iommi to thank for his early career, and $haron to thank for marketing his brand.   She is the heavy metal Walt Disney, and Ozzy(tm) is her Mickey Mouse. 

But no more off topic.  I'm excited to talk about the most underrated IM album in their catalog. 

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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1023 on: August 19, 2017, 12:06:15 PM »

Ozzy's success was, like most things in his life it seems, a freak accident. The fact that he even lived through the 80s, let alone with a really successful solo career, is amazing. That being said, Ozzy and Dio also had really good timing. Many other artists went solo later in the 80s or in the 90s and missed their wave. The problem with the Geoff Tate solo career is that people lost interest in him long before he left Queensryche.

If Ozzy played on one, or two, or even three classic records, I would agree that he's been the lucky recipient of a freak accident.  But for me, he's sustained it now for 48 years, and I have a really hard time dismissing that as a "freak accident".  It wasn't just his partners; even when Sabbath was not getting along, they put out great music.   I personally don't think there's a duff record in the Ozzy Sabbath catalogue (yes, Never Say Die is not the same style as Paranoid, but honestly, I think that's a matter of taste more than anything else).   The two Randy records are masterpieces - at least the second one is - but Bark is a very good album (with Jake) and he has at least two classic records with Zakk (No More Tears and Ozzmosis; No Rest For The Wicked has its moments).   For my money, he's only really gone off the rails with the last two, Black Rain and Scream, but that's a stylistic issue (I miss the more classic NWOBHM stylings of the older Ozzy stuff). 
I should clarify that I don't mean freak accident in the sense that Ozzy got lucky and that wasn't meant to be dismissive. If Ozzy didn't have the great material and live act, none of this would matter. But he also had the right timing and somehow managed to never lose relevance when his contemporaries were struggling. You could make a great album and still go unnoticed for a number of reasons, just ask Bruce. Anyway, the point was that it's almost unfair to use Ozzy as a benchmark for solo careers because his success is an outlier.

I was going to post X Factor today, but there's some good discussion happening so I'll wait a day or two.

Let's not kid ourselves.  Ozzy(tm) was the OG of BS, and the benefactor of Iommi's amazing riff writing.

As a solo act, he has 3 excellent albums written by other people (who were the real talent).   That guy is still relevant today for one reason, and one reason ONLY.   MARKETING.   He has successful created a "brand".   So he has Iommi to thank for his early career, and $haron to thank for marketing his brand.   She is the heavy metal Walt Disney, and Ozzy(tm) is her Mickey Mouse. 

But no more off topic.  I'm excited to talk about the most underrated IM album in their catalog.

Well said about Ozzy. But I disagree about The X Factor. Will give it another spin with open eyes and ears in preparation for this discussion, but I'm not keeping my hopes up...

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1024 on: August 19, 2017, 05:17:00 PM »
I'm excited to talk about the most underrated IM album in their catalog.

Well, we already discussed Fear Of the Dark, but if you'd like to get a word in before The X factor, I'd suggest you hurry.  ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: Balls to Picasso (1994)
« Reply #1025 on: August 19, 2017, 10:10:10 PM »
The X Factor (1995)




Alternate "reverse" cover

Blaze Bayley - Vocals
Dave Murray - Guitar
Janick Gers - Guitar
Steve Harris - Bass
Nicko McBrain - Drums

The months following Bruce’s departure were a scary time for Maiden. Not only did they lose a lead singer and major songwriter, but they also lost producer Martin Birch who had retired early 1993. Where other bands would’ve taken the safe route of hiring a Bruce Dickinson clone and making the best attempt at recapturing their 80s glories, Maiden took the opportunity to create what is quite possibly the boldest and most controversial album of their careers.

Of course this starts with the new lead singer. The “obvious” and highly rumored choices included Doogie White and Michael Kiske. However, they were never under consideration as they failed to meet two of Steve’s requirements: One, the new singer had to be a relative unknown. Two, the new singer had to be English. From Steve’s perspective, Blaze fit the bill perfectly. He had a great relationship with the band already and he had a unique voice that was very unlike Bruce’s. Where Bruce had a wide range with an operatic style and tenor voice, Blaze was much more limited and was a baritone. His low vocal style would be well suited to the darker music Steve was writing.

Which brings us to the album itself. Why is The X Factor so dark? The truth is that Steve Harris was going through a very rough time. In addition to the major changes in the Maiden camp, Steve was also going through a divorce. During the making of the album, the band would read interviews from Bruce that were dismissive of Maiden, which didn’t help the morale. It was a time of uncertainty both in the band’s professional and personal lives. However, times like these can serve as inspiration. That is exactly what happened with The X Factor.

Once the band begun to write, doubts within the Maiden camp were quickly cast aside. The music was fresh and exciting. It was a brand new direction, with the band returning to the progressive tendencies of the late 80s but with a new dark twist. The album’s opening song, The Sign Of the Cross, immediately signals to the listener that they are in for something different. The new Steve Harris epic was the second longest Maiden song, being just 2 minutes shorter than Rime. In addition to being the first song on the album, it was one of the first songs brought into the sessions. The dark, heavy, and progressive tone helped shape the rest of the album.

In many ways, The X Factor is Steve’s baby. Through the 80s and early 90s, as the band developed along with Bruce and Adrian becoming increasingly influential in the musical direction, Maiden was becoming more of a collaborative effort. That remains the case on The X Factor, but in some ways it also goes back to the band’s early days when Steve was the primary songwriter and creative director. Steve has a hand in all but one song on The X Factor, with four of the eleven songs being solo compositions. Steve’s lyrics are introspective and brutally honest. The themes include depression, doubting your beliefs, and PTSD. There are also several songs that deal with war in particular. However, they don’t deal it in the almost glorified portrayal of songs like The Trooper, but more along the lines of Afraid To Shoot Strangers. They deal with the effects of war on the soldiers who fight them. The common theme of a soldier’s mental health seems to tie in nicely with Harris’ own autobiographical lyrics.

Interestingly, around the time Bruce was leaving the band, he commented that Steve tends to be closed off and isn’t one to write about his personal experiences or feelings. When informed of the comment, Steve expressed surprise and disagreed. Of course, the next album happened to contain Steve’s most personal songs to date, and maybe the most personal in his career. There is some truth to Bruce’s statement, however. Very few of Steve’s songs were clearly autobiographical. Existential themes were common in songs like Number Of the Beast and Infinite Dreams, but they were through the eyes of another character. On The X Factor, songs like 2 A.M. and Judgement of Heaven seem purely biographical. However, as previously mentioned, there are still moments of allegory in the songs that deal with war and soldiers.

In addition to The Sign Of the Cross, the sole Harris compositions include Fortunes Of War, Judgement of Heaven, and Blood On the World’s Hands. Fortunes Of War is where the meat of the album begins. After an epic and two high energy singles, the album starts to get “difficult”. Fortunes of War is very dynamic, with many abrupt shifts between soft and heavy. It’s one of several songs on the album to use the “heavy song with a soft intro” format that would become a staple of modern Maiden. Blood On the World’s Hands is a much more unique structure, starting with a surprise bass solo. When the song kicks in it’s more characteristic of the rest of the album, although it features really heavy riffing and a triplet based rhythmic structure that gives a contrast to the more typical 4/4 rhythms. Judgement of Heaven is one of the few lighthearted and energetic moments on the album. Lyrically though it’s another dark affair with Steve questioning his purpose in life and the afterlife.

Steve also wrote two songs with Janick Gers. The first, Lord of the Flies, is another one of the few energetic songs. It was also the second single. Lord Of the Flies is probably the closest thing this album has to a classic Harris rocker. It contains a theme based on literature, it has a “woah oh oh” singalong chorus, and of course it has the Maiden energy. The only thing it seems to be lacking is the classic Maiden gallop, which the band slowly phased out in the 90s. The other Harris/Gers track is the total opposite of Lord Of the Flies. The album closer, The Unbeliever, is one of the oddest songs in the Maiden catalog. It features a really strange rhythm during the verses and an acoustic chorus. It’s a controversial track on an already controversial album, but it is probably the most appropriate way to end the album for that reason. The lyrics are like a continuation of Judgement of Heaven, but with more focus on Harris’ (lack of) faith in God.

One benefit to having a new lineup ready to go when starting sessions for the new album is that Blaze was able to take an active role in the songwriting process. This was important as Bruce had become the most important writer after Steve. Blaze contributes to five songs on the album, although it’s not clear what exactly he contributed to certain songs. Most of the songs he writes on are also credited to Janick and Steve. When Bruce wrote a song with Steve and Janick or Adrian, he typically handled all the vocal parts while Steve tied the parts together and added various sections. However, some of the songs credited to Blaze, Steve, and Janick feature obvious Harris lyrics. The best example is The Aftermath which, similar to Fortunes of War, deals with PTSD and nightmares that former soldiers deal with. The other definite Harris lyric is found on The Edge of Darkness, a song based on the film Apocalypse Now.

Blaze probably wrote the lyrics to the other Bayley/Gers/Harris compositions: Look For the Truth and 2 A.M. The latter in particular fits perfectly with the album’s musical and lyrical themes. Look For the Truth is another song with a slower start. The lyrics for both songs deal with depression, but the theme is given a fresh take coming from a different lyricist than Steve.

The only song without a Harris writing credit also became the first single: Man On the Edge. Along with Lord of the Flies, Man On the Edge is the closest this album comes to classic sounding Maiden (ironic considering it was written by the two most recent members). It’s an uptempo rocker that proves this version of Maiden is still capable of capturing their earlier glories.

Everybody was driven to prove themselves with The X Factor and the sessions proved to be one of Maiden’s most fruitful.  14 songs were written for The X Factor, clocking in at about 80 minutes total. For the first time since Number Of the Beast, Maiden had a surplus of material. Three songs had to be cut from the album: Justice Of the Peace, I Live My Way, and Judgement Day. Justice Of the Peace also happened to be Dave Murray’s only contribution to the album. These songs also happened to represent the more energetic side of the sessions and were probably cut for clashing with the overall mood. They were used later on b-sides and a bonus CD for the Japanese edition. Even with these three songs cut, the 70 minute album was Maiden’s longest at the time.

Like the last two albums, The X Factor was recorded at Steve Harris’ home studio. Though this time it was mostly produced by Steve Harris. The album also credits Nigel Green, who was Martin Birch’s engineer. Steve Harris’ production style is yet another one of the album’s many controversial elements. The X Factor has a very hollow and thin sound that’s very unlike the powerful 80’s albums. In some ways it’s appropriate for the style of music on the album, although the weak sound definitely makes an already challenging album less appealing to many listeners.

All that being said, the album’s controversy starts with the cover. Maiden spent the 90s trying to “modernize” Eddie. The first step was to move away from Derek Riggs as the album artist. Melvyn Grant’s Fear Of the Dark painting was different but still largely maintained the comic book style of Riggs. With The X Factor, Maiden decided to take it to the next extreme: a live action Eddie. The album cover was created by an artist who is notorious around here: Hugh Syme. It featured a realistic looking Eddie undergoing a lobotomy. The cover is nothing like anything Maiden has done before or since and is another aspect of the album that divided fans, although it’s probably much more universally disliked than any other aspect of the album. The graphic nature of the cover also put off retailers, so it was shipped with a reversible cover that showed Eddie at a distance. The artwork for the singles was also all variations of the cover photo shoot.

The title contains multiple meanings. The obvious meaning is that it references this being the band’s tenth studio album. The X Factor was actually the album’s working title and was meant to inspire the band. Many things could be this album’s “X Factor”, from the new lineup to the experimental sound. The band liked this idea so much that they ended up keeping it as the title. This also makes it the second Maiden album not to contain a title track.

Perhaps inevitably, The X Factor was met with mixed reviews. Many fans felt that it lacked the best qualities of early Maiden. There were very few high energy rocking moments and most of the album was slow, introspective, and, to some, plodding. As previously mentioned, the production also didn’t help matters and The X Factor became the first of many Maiden albums to be criticized for Harris’ poor production style.

Most of the criticism seemed directed at the new singer. Again, something that was probably to be expected. It was going to be impossible for anyone to step into Bruce’s shoes, but Blaze’s job was especially hard considering his style was so different. Many were put off by his voice and the dry production gave a very warts and all presentation of his singing. There was a significant backlash against his vocals and many fans walked away from this new incarnation of Maiden.
 
All of that being said, The X Factor is still highly regarded among many fans. For many it was a breath of fresh air after two mediocre albums. Fans of the band’s progressive side welcomed its return in songs like Sign of the Cross, The Unbeliever, and Blood On the World’s Hands. The album’s dark and introspective vibe also spoke to fans, especially those who were in dark places themselves. Those who liked the album hailed it as one of the greatest moments in Maiden’s career. They also welcomed Blaze into the band, arguing that his low voice fit the material.

Commercially, the album actually did OK. By this point Maiden were pretty much irrelevant in America, with the album just barely making it on the Billboard Top 200. In the UK, Maiden still had clout. The Man On the Edge single was met with great anticipation in the UK and landed comfortably at #10. The album followed a month later at #8, no small feat especially for a Metal band in the 90s. Interestingly, the band did especially well in the Nordic countries. Man On the Edge was a #1 single in Finland and the album peaked at #2. Despite the album’s mixed reception, Maiden were still holding on in Europe.


The X Factor is really the beginning of the modern Maiden sound. For better or worse, many of the characteristics found on their current albums begin here. From the obvious slow intro format to more subtle things like the E C G D chord progression. It’s also the beginning of songs that are longer and progressive in nature. There are hints of many of these things on the last few albums, but it all comes together in a direct and focused way on The X Factor.

I try not to editorialize too much with these posts, but The X Factor is one of those albums that gets a unique reaction. Most people seem to love it or hate it. Personally, I think it ranks solidly in the middle of Maiden’s discography. It’s certainly their most unique album and takes multiple listens to digest. You also need to be in the right mood for it. This isn’t a carefree summer type of album. It’s best listened to and appreciated when the listener is in a dark place as well. I urge everyone to approach this album with an open mind and try to understand where the band (and Steve in particular) was when they were making it. Regardless of the quality, it’s commendable that they did anything but go the safe route. While maybe it didn’t get the attention it deserved, it’s an example of why Maiden have such a large dedicated fanbase and it was a necessary step toward where they are today.



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Offline stargazer18

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1026 on: August 20, 2017, 01:49:35 AM »
Getting this in before being offline for the next week...

So those who were looking for something different from the band got it on this album at least as far as I’m concerned. I think I heard one or two of the new songs driving home one night listening to college radio. I had not heard Blaze’s voice up until then and thought he sounded good. Not great, certainly no Dickinson, but good none the less.

I think this album is pretty good. The only truly bad song to me is Falling Down because of the horrible lyrics. I couldn’t believe I really heard “The car is an oven and baking is wild.” Really? Skip!

The music is another story and even some of the slower, plodding tunes have enough to keep my interest. My favorites include the The Sign of the Cross, Fortunes of War, Look for the Truth, The Aftermath, Judgement of Heaven, Blood on the Worlds Hands, The Edge of Darkness and The Unbeliever.  So, most of the disc basically!

Their best album of the 90’s for me.

Top Tier:
Sign of the Cross
Fortunes of War
Look for the Truth
Judgement of Heaven
Blood on the Words Hands
The Aftermath
The Unbeliever

Second Tier:
Lord of the Flies
2 A.M.

Third Tier:
Falling Down
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 08:01:37 AM by stargazer18 »

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1027 on: August 20, 2017, 03:03:47 AM »
Sorry, I've tried but this album is very poor. Repetitive, very little in the way of memorable songs (Man on the Edge and SotC are it), and a singer who can't. No range, limited ability to deliver a melody, makes everything sound the same.

I even prefer the next one, but not by enough to ever want to play either again. I have relistened recently for this, but nothing has changed.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1028 on: August 20, 2017, 03:36:07 AM »
The music is another story and even some of the slower, plodding tunes have enough to keep my interest. My favorites include the title track, Fortunes of War, Look for the Truth, The Aftermath, Judgement of Heaven, Blood on the Worlds Hands, The Edge of Darkness and The Unbeliever.  So, most of the disc basically!
This actually isn't the first time I see someone mistakenly refer to Sign of the cross as the title track. Many people do it as well with the follow up album, refering to Futureal as tre title track.  :biggrin:

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but once again, I need to give it up for Mosh. What a masterful write-up!  :tup

This album is magnificent. The mood, lyrical content, melodies, vocal performance - every single one of these aspects is innovative, fresh sounding, and most of all, executed excellently. Sign of the cross is probably the best song I've ever heard. My other favorites include The Aftermath, Man on the edge, The Unbeliever, Fortunes of war and many others. The album is my 3rd favorite Maiden album, right behind Somewhere in time and Seventh son.

Lets also take a moment and appreciate the effort Blaze Bayley put into this album. He was considerably young and inexperienced, yet he managed to pull it together to contribute some fantastic lyrics and make sure he puts his own stamp on the album vocally. His performance is focused, consistent and not for a single moment trying to be something his not, e.g. a Bruce Dickinson clone. If I have to choose my favorite Blaze performance on the album, it's probably The Edge of darkness. Both the highs and the lows are performed with perfect pitch, delivery, energy and passion. What I admire is, even when he's aware of occassional issues and limitations of his voice, he utilizes them in a way that sounds appropriately vulnerable. The "knife in my hand" line in The Edge of darkness comes to mind, as well as the chorus of The Unbeliever. The hopelessness and fragileness of the words couldn't have been performed better by anybody else.

A question regarding the lyrics - I was always sure all of the songs that list Blaze with a writing feature his lyrics. I'm surprised that's not the case. I'd question what his contributions to some of those songs were.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 07:16:16 AM by Mladen »

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1029 on: August 20, 2017, 04:19:05 AM »
For me this was an album I never got into this album as by 1995 I was 8 years into my maiden fandom and discovering other things. I will say this though, I caught the tour for the album and when they came to Sweden they had literally gone in about a year and half time from playing stadiums to a venue I held one of my high school graduation party's in. Seeing Maiden play for about 400 people in a small setting like that was retrospectively something very unique that I still treasure to this day.

Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1030 on: August 20, 2017, 04:35:36 AM »
TXF is criminally under-rated IMO. It's a great album given that it was released at the height of the grunge explosion, it's Maiden 's darkest album, it's better than NPFTD and FOTD, and a million times better than VXI. Sure, Blaze wasn't Bruce, but he was the best replacement they could have hoped to find, and he didn't deserve the hatred that some sections of the fanbase threw at him. An album that is long overdue for a critical reappraisal.
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1031 on: August 20, 2017, 04:45:38 AM »
When Bruce left I was quite excited to see who they would replace him with. They would have the pick of the rock world. And they chose Blaze. I knew him from Wolfsbane, a pretty shit rock band in the uk. I like Blaze, once had a drink with him and the rest of Wolfsbane. He just wasn't a good enough singer for a Maiden.
His vocal lines are flat and monotone and the band had a back catalogue of over a decade that he couldn't sing.

I understand that his personality was a big part of choosing him. They would have to live with him for the rest of their careers in their minds. There must be a nice guy with a great voice out there.

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1032 on: August 20, 2017, 09:50:53 AM »
I listened to it again on my run today...while it's admirable that they tried something different in a time of uncertainty in the music business, this album still doesn't cut it for me. Blaze sounds out of tune even in the studio. There's a scream he does on 2 a.m. which is downright embarassing. Speaking of which, this song does not belong on a Maiden album, much like Weekend Warrior or The Apparition. Blaze has a good personality, but whoever told him he could sing doesn't understand music. When he sang the songs from the back catalogue in his audition, how come nobody noticed he wouldn't be a good fit?!?!?!

With that said, Sign of the Cross and Man on the Edge are cool songs, worthy of a spot in the setlist even in the current lineup. I'm being as generous as I can here. I saw them live in Rio in 96 on my first day of vacation and had fun, but wouldn't catch them live until the Rock in Rio show, even though I had plenty of chances of doing so.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1033 on: August 20, 2017, 10:16:30 AM »
Come on guys.   Iron Maiden hired an Uruk Hai to be their lead singer!!!  How metal is that??

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1034 on: August 20, 2017, 12:16:36 PM »
Great writeup Mosh!!


The X Factor. Wow. Where to begin..
1...Blaze Bayley. I think he really has an awesome voice, and even had a cool look. He did sound like a mix of Dianno and Dickinson. I thought his voice was perfect for what Maiden was doing on this album. But as Blaze's later albums prove, he just wasn't ready vocally to rise to Maiden's level. Blaze has matured into a cool singer. He was just too young and unrefined. By all accounts, Blaze is an awesome guy, and he really deserves respect. Stepping in for Bruce was an unforgiving challenge. And if it truly came down to Blaze and Doogie White, I still say that Maiden easily made the right choice.

2... The Production. Brutal. Terrible. No meat on the guitars, no power on the drums. TXF sounds like a demo, and it will FOREVER hold this album back.

3...Jannick's songwriting is brilliant on this album. He has a hand in 8 of the 11 album tracks plus Judgement Day. I think anyone that takes the position that TXF is a masterpiece, yet doesn't care for Jannick being in the band, is confused.

4....This would be the second half of my Bruce epiphany. Because what this album truly feels like it needs is balance. Personally, other than Sign Of The Cross, Man On The Edge, Lord Of The Flies, and 2 AM, I'm not sure the other tracks are completely fleshed out. I think you get Steve's vision, and I've often referred to TXF as  Steve Harris solo album, but I've always wondered if some of these more meandering tracks could've used a little more push back in the studio. I have a hard time thinking Jannick, and especially Blaze would've challenged Steve with an occasional "you know Steve, that really doesn't work." This is where I truly understood how Bruce's absence would be realized. Especially when comparing TXF to the fresh and exciting Picasso.




I feel like Fortunes Of War, The Aftermath, The Edge Of Darkness are all basically the same song. I just feel like a little refining to these tracks would've really enhanced them. I feel like the FOW chorus is quite weak. I would've stopped TEOD right at "the genius must die".

The only song I really don't like is Judgement Of Heaven. The back half of this album really needed Judgement Day added to it.

Even The Unbeliever, which has all kinds of incredible things going on for a Maiden track, has to me at least, a remedial verse that just doesn't live up to the rest of the track.

To me, Maiden were really sitting on a Back In Black type masterpiece, but it ends up being a "just miss". It's disappointing because I think some of Maiden strongest material is laying dormant here, and these tracks will ultimately be frozen in time with this poorly produced/demo style format.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1035 on: August 20, 2017, 12:35:53 PM »
Even though I'm an enormous fan of the album, the production is certainly its weakness. I can only imagine how powerful this album would have sounded with Martin Birch at helm.

Offline ozzy554

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1036 on: August 20, 2017, 01:03:02 PM »
X Factor ( weak production aside) has my vote for most underrated Iron Maiden album. There are quite a few songs on there that I listen to on a regular basis like 2.am, blood on the worlds hands, SOTC, and man on the edge.

Also you can't really put all the blame on Blaze for how he sounded live. Steve Harris is the one who decided to hire a replacement singer with a much more limited range and then refuse to downtown to make it easier on him to sing the bruce tracks. It really is a shame because some songs he was just so close to doing well. If only they had helped him out a bit I think he would've been looked upon a bit more favorably.
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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1037 on: August 20, 2017, 01:27:19 PM »
Well. I was already a fan of Blaze as I loved Wolfsbane and saw them several times. Maiden were struggling. I didn't like FOTD. I was pretty excited to hear Blaze with Maiden as Bruce had been doing stuff that didn't suit him to my ears When I saw the artwork I was worried. Wtf? It was nasty AND poorly done. It's always disappointing to see your hero's weaknesses in public and this art (and the DOD cover) showed piss-poor judgment. Cut to the music and I really liked TSOTC but the rest has never caught me. MONE is quite fun. I love Falling Down as a movie so that helps. As many have said, it's a dreadful sounding album.

The bottom line for me: I never listen to it. Ever. I never bought VX1 based on this.
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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1038 on: August 20, 2017, 08:13:12 PM »
Agree with Lowdz, dreadful album. My least favorite along with VXI.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1039 on: August 20, 2017, 08:34:05 PM »
Mosh,

Your finest to date. I am so blown away by how detailed this is, i am going to crank the record tomorrow morning in my office and give it a fresh listen.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1040 on: August 20, 2017, 09:49:28 PM »
The production reminds me of the debut (for better or for worse) and I think that's what Steve was going for.

I think the album is completely brilliant.  Easily the most underrated IM album in the catalog.   The biggest crime IM fans commit is lumping this incredible album in with the absolute beer coaster that came after it.  They are nothing alike.  This album is thought out, dark, brooding, calculated, and one of the few post-PS albums with very little nauseating repetition.

The second biggest crime IM fans commit is refusing to listen to this album objectively.   The "no-Bruce = no-Maiden" pre-disposition of most fans prevents this album from getting a fair shake. But to be fair, I kinda get it.   I personally think Blaze kills it.  Even Bruce's live version of SotC cannot touch Blaze's studio version.   They guy comes out of the gates swinging, and he completely owns it.  There is so much conviction in his singing, even if he doesn't have the range.   You can definitely tell that he's young and hungry and feels he has something to prove.  And that raw passion does not go unnoticed. 

The main problem is that this album doesn't exist in a vacuum.   If it did, it may be one of the best Maiden albums ever recorded.   But it doesn't.   Blaze was a TERRIBLE fit for Iron Maiden.   Steve was out of his mind in choosing someone who was never going to be able to sing the back catalog.  The only thing more bone-headed than to pick Blaze in the first place, was to put everyone through the motions of releasing that piece of crap that came after.   But we will get to that. 

I love this album.  SotC is a top 3 all time IM song, and every other song on this album slays.   They wouldn't have an album this conisistent again until AMOLAD.  Fortunes of War may be the one weak point in my mind.   But even that is pretty decent.   
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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1041 on: August 21, 2017, 12:32:43 AM »
I'm not a fan of the darker type of metal, and not Blaze's vocals either. There are some good songs here (Sign Of The Cross, Lord Of The Flies, Man On The Edge, and Judgement Of Heaven), but overall it's not to my taste. I'd rank it last, with Virtual XI one step above it.
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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1042 on: August 21, 2017, 04:50:36 AM »
I've been away for a few days but will go through this thread and post a writeup tomorrow.  What an album this is.
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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1043 on: August 21, 2017, 06:06:45 AM »
The other thing I remember is how the band sent out a call for auditions, asking singers from all over the world to send out tapes. Some Brazilian singers capitalize on that even today. But why doing that, if Steve had his mind set on Blaze all along? And why did nobody hear Blaze test out his abilities on the back catalogue before asking him to join?

Other people who I heard have auditioned were Steve Grimmet and Doogie White. Actually, Doogie went to Steve's studio for his audition on December 24th, thinking "they must be really serious  about hiring me, if they're calling me to drop by on Christmas Eve!".  He's still pissed that they chose Blaze over him.

Offline Art

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1044 on: August 21, 2017, 08:09:57 AM »
First, about IM choosing Blaze to replace Bruce:

As much as i am a Blaze fan (his first 3 solo albuns are KILLER, and he still keeps putting out good albuns, even with a much smaller budget nowadays) he was a strange choice for Maiden. I think Steve got him because he already had an idea about how TXF would sound. Blaze is very good on the album, after all, the songs were written for his voice. If this was another band, or a Steve Harris solo album, Blaze would not get half the critiscism he gets. The error was not considering he would have to sing Bruce-era material live, which he clearly could not do. That frustrated the fans even more, and generated a big backlash against Blaze. I remember at the time, everybody "hated" the album and Blaze, most of the times without even listening to it.

It took me some time to get over that prejudice and give the album a fair listen, but once i did, i was hooked.

About the album:

TXF for me is a very good album, that planted the seeds to what would be the Reunion Era sound of Maiden. Love the songs, especially TSOTC, MOTE, LOTF, JOH, BOTWH...i like the whole album, and never skip a song. The only downside, as already pointed, is the production, which is too weak, thin and flat. That did't help the album.

All in all, this is an album that i hold very dearly, and listen to in a regular basis. And it also turned me into a Blaze fan. I have enormous respect for him, because almost everybody hated him when he was on Maiden, and still give him grief until today about it, and he's still one of the nicest guys in metal. I went to at least 3  Blaze solo concerts here in Brazil, and they were all awesome. The guy really sings his heart out on stage, and is always thoughtful and very nice to his fans. He plays the show, and after he's done, he's on the bar stool having a beer and taking pictures, giving autographs or just having conversations with all the fans. I also admire how he keeps on constant touring around the world, playing small venues and never complains about it. I saw a show of the Syllicon Messiah tour for about 4/5000 people and a more recent tour maybe for 200 people and his enthuasiasm and performance were the same.

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1045 on: August 21, 2017, 08:18:49 AM »
I recently listened to the album in full a few weeks ago as this thread was approaching it.  Since I became a Maiden fan in the late 90's, I usually just put on the first 3 songs, rocked the hell out, and then had my fill of the record.  I agree that Blaze is awesome on the album (and Silicon Messiah, damnit), and the criticism of him really just comes from two things:

1.  He isn't Bruce
2.  He sucks at singing anything that Bruce did.  Also, he isn't Bruce.

I really need to spend some time with it and look at the album as the start of the reunion-era style, as opposed to any other thoughts that I have had about the album over time.

Finally - there is NO way that Bruce's version of Sign of the Cross isn't better than the album version.  Because....he isn't Blaze.   :lol   I love the live versions of the Blaze songs that Bruce has done, especially Sign of the Cross.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:36:52 AM by Grappler »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1046 on: August 21, 2017, 08:52:05 AM »
I've tried multiple times to get into the Blaze era albums and couldn't. Not much else to say besides that. Just not for me

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1047 on: August 21, 2017, 09:32:04 AM »
Couple things;  I'll put my Maiden bona fides against anyone here, and that is only to say "not a casual fan", and "serious about the context as well as the music".   I object to a fair number of things here:

- First and foremost, the notion that we "reject Blaze" because he's "not Bruce".  Look, it's painfully obvious that he's not Bruce, but I LOVE Di'anno, who isn't Bruce either.  Killers is a Top Three Maiden record for me (and potentially a Top 15 ALL TIME record for me, which I guess makes it a Top Two Maiden album, since only Powerslave is in my Top 15 all time list).  Blaze just wasn't a good fit for Maiden, period.   Di'Anno wasn't either, but the music was different and it didn't show as much.  Maiden then was 3:25 seconds of grit, grime and attitude.  That is NOT Maiden circa 1995.

This was epic metal with a prog underwire supporting it (bra reference, yep!) and Blaze did not have that element to support it.  I don't know that Doogie did either, to be honest, but there ARE guys out there that could have had the "nice guy", the grit, and were not Bruce, but could have bridged the gap to that prog infrastructure.  Tony Martin for one (not that he would have or could have done it). 

- Second, that it is "underrated"; it is, in my opinion, exactly correctly rated. It IS a polarizing album.  There are good points - Sign of the Cross, the Genesis rip-offs not withstanding, and The Unbeliever - but this is a classic example of that common pitfall of the mid'-90's (ironically, Genesis fell into it with "We Can't Dance" as well) and that is, just because a CD holds 80 minutes, doesn't mean that you have 80 minutes worth filling.  "Falling Down" is a generic, middle of the road Maiden song on it's best day.   

- I think that this album was important, though, for one reason:  it confirmed what we all knew:  Iron Maiden exists at the whim and whimsy of Steve Harris.  If he's not on board, it doesn't happen, and if he is on board, it will happen, even if it isn't the best idea on the planet.  I think Blaze is a reaction to Bruce, not a purely singular selection in his own right.  He - Steve - wanted a singer that could contribute creatively, but that was ultimately a cog in the machine.

- What are we, fourth now?  I think the songwriting is average.   I've listened to this countless times - it's not quite "Grace Under Pressure", my least favorite Rush album that I revisit religiously about every year to see if I've missed something or to see if I have warmed to it, but it's close - and there just aren't the hooks or the melodies that the best Maiden - even the heaviest Maiden - has.   

- Fifth, the production DOES blow, but Martin Birch notwithstanding, Maiden has never been known to be a "production paradigm".  Is there a Maiden album where you go "WOW, is that a finely produced piece of work!  The songs suck, the playing is awful, but it just sounds SO FUCKING GOOD?"   There is not.    One of the brilliant things about Jimmy Page is that, in Zeppelin, no one ever stepped on each other.  The guitars were playing in different frequencies than the bass (or keys), the bass was not competing rhythmically with Bonzo, but rather complementing and contrasting, and rarely did anyone venture up into the same registers that Plant did.  Those early and mid period Zeppelin records are master classes in the sonic distinction of the elements in a band all working together to create a sum greater than it's parts.  That is NOT "The X Factor".  I think the various elements of the band are competing for space here in a way that is not complimentary to the music, and Blaze just compounds that problem.  He doesn't cut through, and doesn't contrast enough with everything that is going on around him.  This makes for an EXCEEDINGLY tedious 70 minutes, 54 seconds.

- Sixth, and finally, I think this album suffers because of Nicko McBrain; famously, he was (allegedly) the guy that told Steve "it's your band, your call, but you need to SERIOUSLY consider bringing Bruce back, bro."  I think he consciously/subconsciously knew that this wasn't right.  There are parts on this record (and the follow-up) where I've actually gone to Wikipedia because I wasn't convinced it was actually him playing.   That's a CRUCIAL point for a power band like Maiden.   

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1048 on: August 21, 2017, 10:29:33 AM »
I agree with pretty much everything you said there Stadler. Except I love most of P/g

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Iron Maiden Discography Thread: The X Factor (1995)
« Reply #1049 on: August 21, 2017, 10:32:50 AM »
I recently listened to the album in full a few weeks ago as this thread was approaching it.  Since I became a Maiden fan in the late 90's, I usually just put on the first 3 songs, rocked the hell out, and then had my fill of the record.  I agree that Blaze is awesome on the album (and Silicon Messiah, damnit), and the criticism of him really just comes from two things:

1.  He isn't Bruce
2.  He sucks at singing anything that Bruce did.  Also, he isn't Bruce.

I really need to spend some time with it and look at the album as the start of the reunion-era style, as opposed to any other thoughts that I have had about the album over time.

Finally - there is NO way that Bruce's version of Sign of the Cross isn't better than the album version.  Because....he isn't Blaze.   :lol   I love the live versions of the Blaze songs that Bruce has done, especially Sign of the Cross.

We obviously have very different ideas about what makes an amazing singer.

And I'd also fallen out of love with Bruce at his time so your argument doesn't stand up. I was excited at the thought of Maiden with a new singer, but they blew it.