Author Topic: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting  (Read 81082 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3010 on: July 09, 2018, 10:38:35 PM »
You know me well enough that I should be seeing a ton of humor in all of this, but I just can't. I really can't.  I have Political Surround Sound up here, with Elizabeth Warren in the center channel, Dick Blumenthal and Chris Murphy in the left and right channel, and Chuck Schumer in the left rear.   My local station had a phone in with Blumenthal after the announcement tonight and I almost threw the remote through the TV.    Partisan hack spewing out-and-out, blatant lies, every bit as bad as Trump's contradictory, maybe, seventh grade tweets.   It's not funny anymore.  It really isn't. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3011 on: July 10, 2018, 05:44:19 AM »
I wasn't trying to be funny.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3012 on: July 10, 2018, 08:18:58 AM »
I wasn't trying to be funny.
Thankfully I've always been able to find humor in the absurd. It's just easier to laugh at a petulant child being handed the keys to a tank than to fret over the fact that he's careening it fulls peed towards my home.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3013 on: July 10, 2018, 01:51:23 PM »
You said “peed” in the trump thread
Oh shit, you're right!

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3014 on: July 15, 2018, 01:46:23 AM »




Witch hunt, no collusion!

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3015 on: July 15, 2018, 12:15:58 PM »
In a related story, not one vote was affected by this in November. 
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3016 on: July 15, 2018, 01:37:05 PM »
In a related story, not one vote was affected by this in November.

Incorrect.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3017 on: July 16, 2018, 07:32:40 AM »
In a related story, not one vote was affected by this in November.

Incorrect.

311 is correct; there was at least one vote affected by this in November.  I had considered voting for Hillary - I then and now believe that "President Of The United States Of America" should  not be your first elected office ever - but because of her perjury over the email scandal and the related nonsense, I couldn't in good conscience do it, and voted Independent (which I would do again).   

I'm just amused - the way you're amused at how a car rolls over five times in a wreck - at how many people think that "Russia" started with "Trump".    How many of you even know that Nikita Khrushchev told John F. Kennedy, "We voted for you."   Not excusing it, not saying it's right, not saying it should continue, but Russia has sought to influence every election in the U.S. since at least 1960, and probably at least a decade before that. 

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3018 on: July 16, 2018, 07:43:30 AM »
Still with the perjury. Never change.

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3019 on: July 16, 2018, 07:45:13 AM »
I'm just amused - the way you're amused at how a car rolls over five times in a wreck - at how many people think that "Russia" started with "Trump".    How many of you even know that Nikita Khrushchev told John F. Kennedy, "We voted for you."   Not excusing it, not saying it's right, not saying it should continue, but Russia has sought to influence every election in the U.S. since at least 1960, and probably at least a decade before that.

I forgot how all our past presidents begged Russia to continue hacking our citizens' emails while simultaneously declaring Russia is 100% innocent. Yeah, that slipped my mind.

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3020 on: July 16, 2018, 08:28:18 AM »
I'm just amused - the way you're amused at how a car rolls over five times in a wreck - at how many people think that "Russia" started with "Trump".    How many of you even know that Nikita Khrushchev told John F. Kennedy, "We voted for you."   Not excusing it, not saying it's right, not saying it should continue, but Russia has sought to influence every election in the U.S. since at least 1960, and probably at least a decade before that.

I forgot how all our past presidents begged Russia to continue hacking our citizens' emails while simultaneously declaring Russia is 100% innocent. Yeah, that slipped my mind.

Or blamed their predecessors for the terrible state of relations with an adversarial nation.

Ronald Regan - "We wouldn't be in this cold war if Jimmy had extended an olive branch"
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3021 on: July 16, 2018, 09:46:27 AM »
I'm just amused - the way you're amused at how a car rolls over five times in a wreck - at how many people think that "Russia" started with "Trump".    How many of you even know that Nikita Khrushchev told John F. Kennedy, "We voted for you."   Not excusing it, not saying it's right, not saying it should continue, but Russia has sought to influence every election in the U.S. since at least 1960, and probably at least a decade before that.

I forgot how all our past presidents begged Russia to continue hacking our citizens' emails while simultaneously declaring Russia is 100% innocent. Yeah, that slipped my mind.

AND

I'm just amused - the way you're amused at how a car rolls over five times in a wreck - at how many people think that "Russia" started with "Trump".    How many of you even know that Nikita Khrushchev told John F. Kennedy, "We voted for you."   Not excusing it, not saying it's right, not saying it should continue, but Russia has sought to influence every election in the U.S. since at least 1960, and probably at least a decade before that.

I forgot how all our past presidents begged Russia to continue hacking our citizens' emails while simultaneously declaring Russia is 100% innocent. Yeah, that slipped my mind.

Or blamed their predecessors for the terrible state of relations with an adversarial nation.

Ronald Regan - "We wouldn't be in this cold war if Jimmy had extended an olive branch"


You shouldn't forget.   No one said to forget that (or, more correctly, since I'm assuming you just forgot the green text, "acknowledge that it's being done now").    All I'm saying is "don't act like it came out of nowhere".   Obama was pretty clear that he felt he "inherited" an economic shitstorm.  "Change you can believe in" isn't necessary if everything before was rosy and dandy.  Clinton made no bones about "inheriting" a problem from Reagan/Bush.  Trump is not an anomaly.  He is the inevitable and predictable escalation of what came before and what are our options now.  Trump is to Obama as Dream Theater is to Rush.   Trump is to Clinton as W.A.S.P. is to Motley Crue.

I can't speak for what Trump meant with his comment.   I don't know any more than you do.   But I think there's one interpretation that is something other than a sincere plea and/or invitation for Russia to meddle.   How do you know it wasn't a reference to the hacking of Podesta's emails?   That was in March of 2016, right?  And Trump's snarky comment was what?   July?   I never took it as "Hey, Russia, HACK HILLARY!"; I took it as "Look, you have a woman who was charged with the security of the United States of America, and she can't find her own emails; maybe Russia, who clearly has access to the Democrats emails, has a copy!"

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3022 on: July 16, 2018, 09:54:35 AM »
I never took it as "Hey, Russia, HACK HILLARY!"

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference.

How could one NOT take it as "hey Russia, hack Hilary".  Seriously, do you believe anything anybody actually says, without looking for the "well, I don't know what they really mean" card - especially when it's convenient to further whatever point you're trying to make.
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And TAC can suck it  :biggrin:, this is heavy in all the right places.  :tup

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3023 on: July 16, 2018, 09:58:20 AM »
I never took it as "Hey, Russia, HACK HILLARY!"

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference.

How could one NOT take it as "hey Russia, hack Hilary".  Seriously, do you believe anything anybody actually says, without looking for the "well, I don't know what they really mean" card - especially when it's convenient to further whatever point you're trying to make.

Beat me to it... honestly I'm very surprised you're arguing what you are, Stadler. This is not a hard one, this 'hack her emails' statement.

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3024 on: July 16, 2018, 10:08:13 AM »
While we’re talking about foreign influence let’s not forget everyone’s favorite first family has a shady past with a large foreign power. IF the same grit and determination were to have been shown in trying to get to the truth of the matter there’d be plenty of actual evidence to show the Clintons and the Chinese have a ‘close’ relationship

This is one of 20 or so articles that pops up when you search it.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/chinese-illegally-donated-bill-clinton-reelection-campaign-media-downplayed/

I always thought it was ‘convenient’ as well when at the end of his second term ol’ Bill sold and shared our satellite technology with the Chinese and then what do you know....he gets a nice chunk o’ change from a Chinese firm for his Library.

The Russians saying mean things about Clinton in social media realms didn’t win the election for Trump. Trump won because Hillary was a horrible candidate. I think it’s utterly comical that there’s rumors of her running again in 2020. I PRAY that happens....would love nothing more than to see her lose twice to Donald Trump...which she would.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3025 on: July 16, 2018, 10:50:23 AM »
I never took it as "Hey, Russia, HACK HILLARY!"

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference.

How could one NOT take it as "hey Russia, hack Hilary".  Seriously, do you believe anything anybody actually says, without looking for the "well, I don't know what they really mean" card - especially when it's convenient to further whatever point you're trying to make.

In the context of the facts that Russia already hacked into her account, it is a plausible interpretation.   "[In and among the emails we know you already have from Mrs. I-Am-So-Security-Conscious] I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."

No, I don't take what ANYONE says at face value without at least considering what they are saying, why they are saying it, and to whom they are saying it.   

Case in point:  the press conference today.  Vladimir Putin is by far the smartest, shrewdest leader in the world today.   By FAR.   He and Trump were both asked repeatedly about the meddling/hacking of our election.  And if you listened closely, Putin answered the questions very specifically.   He never said outright that "Russia" - and all that means (the government, the citizens, entities within the geographic boundaries of the country) - didn't meddle.  He said, specifically, "the Russian State".  I  would defer to Dave on this, perhaps he can set me straight if I'm mistaken, but in my opinion, "the Russian State" is not a nebulous, vague term, but in fact refers specifically to the official entity that is the government.  Not individual (rogue?) actors in the government, but the official diplomatic entity that is the republic.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 10:55:45 AM by Stadler »

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3026 on: July 16, 2018, 10:54:45 AM »


The Russians saying mean things about Clinton in social media realms didn’t win the election for Trump. Trump won because Hillary was a horrible candidate. I think it’s utterly comical that there’s rumors of her running again in 2020. I PRAY that happens....would love nothing more than to see her lose twice to Donald Trump...which she would.

See, I deeply and passionately hope she does not, because to me it is a sign of our continual slide into the abyss.   It would be prove positive that we haven't learned anything from the past x years.  It means we're still playing partisan games with our citizenry, it means we're still valuing moral judgment and bullying over hard intellectual analysis, and it means we're destined to keep repeating our mistakes at least for the near future. 

For the life of me, I can't understand why - if we loathe Trump so much - we would go back to the person that is in part responsible for us having Trump to begin with.   

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3027 on: July 16, 2018, 10:56:09 AM »
Because not everybody has political acumen and focus of Stads J. Stadler and might even agree with Hillary on some things. :)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3028 on: July 16, 2018, 12:06:38 PM »
Because not everybody has political acumen and focus of Stads J. Stadler and might even agree with Hillary on some things. :)

What do you mean?  I agree with Hillary on many things.   I agree with Trump on many things too.   But I disagree with both on others, and some of those others are for me a higher priority.   I've never judged anyone on what their priorities are; I judge when they try to force their priorities on me.  We had eight years of putting the individual in front of the collective, and we need a little bit of the opposite for a while (as is the cycle). 

In my view, the election was lost by Hillary because she couldn't possibly understand that someone might prioritize things differently than her.  She even went so far as to call those that didn't prioritize like she does "deplorable".    Not prioritizing everything subordinate to "identity politics" doesn't make you a racist, bigot, homophobe or misogynist.   

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3029 on: July 16, 2018, 12:12:01 PM »
Because not everybody has political acumen and focus of Stads J. Stadler and might even agree with Hillary on some things. :)

What do you mean?  I agree with Hillary on many things.   I agree with Trump on many things too.   But I disagree with both on others, and some of those others are for me a higher priority.   I've never judged anyone on what their priorities are; I judge when they try to force their priorities on me.  We had eight years of putting the individual in front of the collective, and we need a little bit of the opposite for a while (as is the cycle). 

In my view, the election was lost by Hillary because she couldn't possibly understand that someone might prioritize things differently than her.  She even went so far as to call those that didn't prioritize like she does "deplorable".    Not prioritizing everything subordinate to "identity politics" doesn't make you a racist, bigot, homophobe or misogynist.

But it doesn't matter if you agree with her because as you've said yourself many times, the 'perjury' thing was the deciding factor for you. Didn't matter how much you agreed with her, she perjured (even though she apparently didn't... was never tried and convicted for it... hm), therefore, game over. The deplorable thing - was that the first time you've ever heard a politician generalize? You and I both know the answer is 'no.' You've never harped on about Romney's 47% comment which is the same thing as Hillary's deplorable comment, which is why I am amazed at the dedication you have to discussing Hillary's deplorable comment as if it's the most vile thing anyone's ever said (almost as bad as bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, mocking crippled people, attacking families of vets, attacking a war hero turned politician who is dying of brain cancer, generalizing Mexicans as rapists and criminals...).

My point was that people will vote for her because, believe it or not, people are out there who agree with her, who - wait for it - think differently than you! Who think she's a better fit for Trump no matter how hard you want to peg her as scum of the earth, Satan incarnate, devil woman waiting to bring down the country with her "malevolent intentions."

Offline sylvan

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3030 on: July 16, 2018, 02:00:07 PM »
YES, I acknowledge that other politicians are also morally bankrupt, including Trump. But as someone sitting in the middle, wanting so badly for the Dems to understand the problem, why Trump IS, and to bring a better option to the table, I tend to be more critical of what THEY are doing. It's fine to think that a lot of Trump supporters need to change, but in reality they have no reason to. Unless the Dems realize that, and do some changing of their own, we're in for more of the same. Unfortunately, I've seen no sign of moderation, only more anti-Trump positioning to capitalize on the hate, which doesn't change anything.

Having said this ^^^ already, it seems like a good time to add that just because you, and even millions others, agree with her, it doesn't make it a good idea for her to have ANYTHING to do with the next election. If Hillary ends up as the Dem on the ticket, it means that nobody learned anything and we're destined for 4 more years of Trump, good or bad. It's fine to agree with her, but I'm also sure there are dozens of other Dems that think the same way as her about whatever important topics are on the agenda. Trump and his supporters are winning the long term game, and any moderates that are looking for another way are going to continue to be turned off by "the same 'ol thing".  So I beg, whomever is listening, PLEASE give us a better option.

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3031 on: July 16, 2018, 02:11:27 PM »
Dude, you're preaching to the choir, only reason I voted for her in the general (my county went to Bernie and I voted for him as well) was because it came down to her vs. Trump. I'm begging for anyone other than her to run.

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3032 on: July 16, 2018, 02:51:56 PM »
The only thing I will add is that it will be interesting to see who ends up being the democrat nominee.  The names in the news lately, Clinton and Warren, aren't very interesting and give me reason to think Trump would win again.  They got to find someone better, and I really think it shouldn't be too hard, but maybe it is, to oppose Trump and not break their own party in half.  Seems to me Joe Biden would be the man who could do it, but I haven't seen his name thrown around recently.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3033 on: July 16, 2018, 03:08:35 PM »
Don't forget Oprah and Howard Schultz!
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3034 on: July 16, 2018, 03:24:58 PM »
"Andrew W.K.: Party hard, vote hard."

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3035 on: July 16, 2018, 03:40:59 PM »
Names I've seen are Biden, Booker, and Gillibrand. I have no comment on any of them.

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3036 on: July 16, 2018, 03:43:20 PM »
It's so sad that neither country, of which I am a citizen, can come up with a good strong candidate.

Do other countries have this problem too? Good Cage.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3037 on: July 16, 2018, 05:22:58 PM »
You don't find solutions in politics (or in anything I suppose) without fully understanding the problem faced, and my question for Americans is: when you speak of wanting a "good candidate", do you have a clear idea on what challenges your country will face over the next decade? Because without that understanding, you won't be in a position to recognise who is a good or bad candidate to navigate those challenges.

Have reporters go out into the streets of all your major towns and cities and ask 100 random people from each of them to give their views on what main issues (economic, geopolitical and social) America faces in the immediate (i.e nearest 10 years) future. Their answers will reveal a lot about the kinds of candidates you can expect to see in 2020.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 05:28:08 PM by Dave_Manchester »
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3038 on: July 16, 2018, 05:52:15 PM »
....ask 100 random people from each of them to give their views on what main issues (economic, geopolitical and social) America faces in the immediate (i.e nearest 10 years) future.

More and more shitty candidates.

To answer you question in earnest, since it is a good question, people are going to say what issues their people face, however they define it, whether it be black people, or immigrants, or blue collar workers, or neo-Nazis. They don't give a crap what issues the nation as a whole faces. And then the candidates will respond to those concerns accordingly. As someone else noted in this thread I believe, are we the only nation on Earth where candidates are focused on securing "the Latino vote" or the "females between 18-25 vote?"
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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3039 on: July 16, 2018, 06:26:04 PM »
To answer you question in earnest, since it is a good question, people are going to say what issues their people face, however they define it, whether it be black people, or immigrants, or blue collar workers, or neo-Nazis. They don't give a crap what issues the nation as a whole faces. And then the candidates will respond to those concerns accordingly. As someone else noted in this thread I believe, are we the only nation on Earth where candidates are focused on securing "the Latino vote" or the "females between 18-25 vote?"

It's just a numbers game at the end of the day that everyone in such a high position plays, but it is funny how it comes out as almost being racist/sexist when you lump people together in voting demographics like that, but also the numbers don't lie.  There are stats and ways to play to those stats.  It's also kind of where our society has gone, everything is about stats now and a number that represents everything including how latinos trend to vote and how many people are my friend on facebook.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3040 on: July 16, 2018, 07:52:00 PM »
You don't find solutions in politics (or in anything I suppose) without fully understanding the problem faced, and my question for Americans is: when you speak of wanting a "good candidate", do you have a clear idea on what challenges your country will face over the next decade? Because without that understanding, you won't be in a position to recognise who is a good or bad candidate to navigate those challenges.

Have reporters go out into the streets of all your major towns and cities and ask 100 random people from each of them to give their views on what main issues (economic, geopolitical and social) America faces in the immediate (i.e nearest 10 years) future. Their answers will reveal a lot about the kinds of candidates you can expect to see in 2020.

This. Whether Dave and I agree with what the problem is, is immaterial.   But this is the root of any comments on Hillary.  And I only point out Hillary, because we have an army of people pointing out the problem(s) with Trump.  You don't need me to pile on with that.  I've been clear on Trump:  I hate the tweeting.  I hate the tariffs (dumbest economic idea since... well, the ACA).  I hate the attacks on our courts.  I like the calling out of some of our press, I don't like the blanket generalizations or the execution generally.    I agree with immigration reform in principle, not at all in execution.   I do like the relaxation of regulation, and I like the direction of the courts (so far). I'm not sure Hillary would be that different, issue-wise, to be honest.

Don't misunderstand; if someone prioritizes differently than me, and that leads to a different outcome, so be it.  I said nothing about Obama for eight years, and that's a paradigm example.  I didn't think we needed "change", even "change you had no shot of believing in".  But the people spoke and I respected that.  I never referred to him as "Obummer".  I never said "Not my president."  I never said "RESIST!".  I never called for his birth certificate.  My biggest disagreement with him is policy (the ACA, primarily).  I actually think he's a smart guy and I'd love to have dinner with him (in a purely non-sexual way).  He's probably tied for second on my "Living Presidents I'd Love To Meet" list.

I think I've been clear that I don't at all think our biggest problem over the next 20 years is issue related.   

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3041 on: July 16, 2018, 09:42:19 PM »
You don't find solutions in politics (or in anything I suppose) without fully understanding the problem faced, and my question for Americans is: when you speak of wanting a "good candidate", do you have a clear idea on what challenges your country will face over the next decade? Because without that understanding, you won't be in a position to recognise who is a good or bad candidate to navigate those challenges.

Have reporters go out into the streets of all your major towns and cities and ask 100 random people from each of them to give their views on what main issues (economic, geopolitical and social) America faces in the immediate (i.e nearest 10 years) future. Their answers will reveal a lot about the kinds of candidates you can expect to see in 2020.

This. Whether Dave and I agree with what the problem is, is immaterial.   But this is the root of any comments on Hillary.  And I only point out Hillary, because we have an army of people pointing out the problem(s) with Trump.  You don't need me to pile on with that.  I've been clear on Trump:  I hate the tweeting.  I hate the tariffs (dumbest economic idea since... well, the ACA).  I hate the attacks on our courts.  I like the calling out of some of our press, I don't like the blanket generalizations or the execution generally.    I agree with immigration reform in principle, not at all in execution.   I do like the relaxation of regulation, and I like the direction of the courts (so far). I'm not sure Hillary would be that different, issue-wise, to be honest.

Don't misunderstand; if someone prioritizes differently than me, and that leads to a different outcome, so be it.  I said nothing about Obama for eight years, and that's a paradigm example.  I didn't think we needed "change", even "change you had no shot of believing in".  But the people spoke and I respected that.  I never referred to him as "Obummer".  I never said "Not my president."  I never said "RESIST!".  I never called for his birth certificate.  My biggest disagreement with him is policy (the ACA, primarily).  I actually think he's a smart guy and I'd love to have dinner with him (in a purely non-sexual way).  He's probably tied for second on my "Living Presidents I'd Love To Meet" list.

I think I've been clear that I don't at all think our biggest problem over the next 20 years is issue related.

Actually I disagree with the idea that your actual thoughts and ideas are unnecessary and superfluous. So much of the problems we face, even under your own rationalizations, are because no one converses openly. Everything is a debate or competition or battle between sides. Agreement is a weakness. I value actual honest communication as the genuine antidote to a lot of the problems we have. Less debate, more conversation is badly needed. You posting your actual feelings would go a long way.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3042 on: July 17, 2018, 07:42:09 AM »
I'd love to have dinner with him (in a purely non-sexual way).

Most people DO have dinner in a nonsexual way.
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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3043 on: July 17, 2018, 08:09:50 AM »
I'd love to have dinner with him (in a purely non-sexual way).

Most people DO have dinner in a nonsexual way.

Says you :eyebrows:
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Re: Trump's Presidency thread. v 100 days and counting
« Reply #3044 on: July 17, 2018, 08:13:24 AM »
You don't find solutions in politics (or in anything I suppose) without fully understanding the problem faced, and my question for Americans is: when you speak of wanting a "good candidate", do you have a clear idea on what challenges your country will face over the next decade? Because without that understanding, you won't be in a position to recognise who is a good or bad candidate to navigate those challenges.

Have reporters go out into the streets of all your major towns and cities and ask 100 random people from each of them to give their views on what main issues (economic, geopolitical and social) America faces in the immediate (i.e nearest 10 years) future. Their answers will reveal a lot about the kinds of candidates you can expect to see in 2020.

This. Whether Dave and I agree with what the problem is, is immaterial.   But this is the root of any comments on Hillary.  And I only point out Hillary, because we have an army of people pointing out the problem(s) with Trump.  You don't need me to pile on with that.  I've been clear on Trump:  I hate the tweeting.  I hate the tariffs (dumbest economic idea since... well, the ACA).  I hate the attacks on our courts.  I like the calling out of some of our press, I don't like the blanket generalizations or the execution generally.    I agree with immigration reform in principle, not at all in execution.   I do like the relaxation of regulation, and I like the direction of the courts (so far). I'm not sure Hillary would be that different, issue-wise, to be honest.

Don't misunderstand; if someone prioritizes differently than me, and that leads to a different outcome, so be it.  I said nothing about Obama for eight years, and that's a paradigm example.  I didn't think we needed "change", even "change you had no shot of believing in".  But the people spoke and I respected that.  I never referred to him as "Obummer".  I never said "Not my president."  I never said "RESIST!".  I never called for his birth certificate.  My biggest disagreement with him is policy (the ACA, primarily).  I actually think he's a smart guy and I'd love to have dinner with him (in a purely non-sexual way).  He's probably tied for second on my "Living Presidents I'd Love To Meet" list.

I think I've been clear that I don't at all think our biggest problem over the next 20 years is issue related.

Actually I disagree with the idea that your actual thoughts and ideas are unnecessary and superfluous. So much of the problems we face, even under your own rationalizations, are because no one converses openly. Everything is a debate or competition or battle between sides. Agreement is a weakness. I value actual honest communication as the genuine antidote to a lot of the problems we have. Less debate, more conversation is badly needed. You posting your actual feelings would go a long way.

MY point with "superfluous" is to acknowledge that I'm not just playing a political "I know you are but what am I."   I try to be very respectful of ideas I don't agree with, and I'm not just trying to supplant yours with mine.   While some of you don't believe it (and others ought to try it sometime) I regularly revisit things that are even core beliefs.    One has to.  I think one has an obligation to reevaluate everything whenever you get new facts.   It's part of the bigger problem that so many people get an idea and stick with it regardless of whether the facts of the world actually support it (gun bans are a great example).  I get it; be the change you want to see, blah blah blah, but acknowledge that.   DOn't just try to force a square peg in a round hole over and over and over again, especially when by doing so you are compromising OTHER PEOPLE.