Dear Dream Theater

[phospheneSOI]

I write this because I hope someone in the band or management actually keeps an eye on here from time to time...

The reason my friend just text me saying your Birmingham gig has lots of empty seats tonight - and why there are still lots of tickets left for the gig in Cardiff on Saturday that I'd like to go to -  is because your tickets are too expensive.

5 years ago - only 5 - your tickets were £25 (including booking fee) for my nearest show. Now a middling is £50.50 (£85 for a top tier!)

I have 4 friends who would have enjoyed to go to your show on Saturday - but we all agreed it's just too much. We agreed that £30 including booking fees etc and we would have been there. However, even though your cheap seats are only about £10 more than that, it crosses the threshold into expensive... there's a line and your prices just cross it.

I know it's not necessarily your fault. I know overheads are crazy. BUT - honestly - the band have basically lost out on a potential £150 worth of ticket sales and a lot more full seats...

Surely - financially in the long term - it would make more sense to bring your prices down... at least for the cheap and middling seats?

I don't know if anyone worthwhile will see this... but I am absoluely convinced that's why the turnout is down... purely based on the fact myself and my 4 friends are huge fans of DT and simply can't justify paying those sort of  prices when we've already seen the band several times (I only paid £30 with fees to see them cover Dark Side of the Moon sat in the 4th row in 2010!)

It makes me sad to hear you're playing to dwindling crowds... but trust me, make it financially work somehow that you don't charge as much and people will come back.

[MirrorMask]

From what I understand, DT themselves don't make the price. DT's tour manager sells the concert - it's up to the promoters who buy the concert to charge whatever they see fit to make a profit. Sure if their concert costs less the promoter need to pay less as well, but it's not DT themselves who decide the ticket price.

[Adami]

I actually have it on good authority that the price increases are largely due to the large amounts of salmon required in Petrucci's rider.

[Dublagent66]

It's been 3 years since I've been to a DT show and it's not because of ticket prices.

[Train of Naught]

For me it's definitely true. I would gladly go to/have gone to a DT concert if the prices were more reasonable, for the money I'd have to pay to see them I can see about 3 shows of bands I like just as much or even more.

[cramx3]

I've noticed a price increase for DT in the NYC area over the years.  I also read recently that concert tickets in general are all going up, mostly to cover the costs of pirated music.

Found this interesting read https://www.thefader.com/2017/01/05/concert-tickets-expensive-rihanna-beyonce-adele-drake which focuses mostly on pop live acts, but I think this can be extrapolated to all live music:

In North America, average ticket prices overall increased by 20% between 2010 and 2015. According to trade publication Pollstar’s end of year report in 2015, the price of tickets to live music hit an all-time high that year, with an average cost of $74.25.

[hefdaddy42]

Yes, ticket prices are more expensive for most acts, in most countries.

Just pay the money and go see them, if you really want to see them.  The alternative is, well, NOT seeing them.

[phospheneSOI]

It's just sad... I hate the idea of them playing to half empty venues.

And to think if there tickets were a little cheaper they would have banked £150 off me and my mates and filled some seats.

Can anyone answer me this?

I understand costs going up across the board and it's not exclusive to DT.... I understand how crazy overheads can be and piracy etc. BUT... I'm seeing Snarky Puppy in the same city... a band with about 10 members... and tickets were £26 with booking fees!?

How is it possible!? How're they doing that when DT's average price is £50. I can't get my head around it.

[phospheneSOI]

Yes, ticket prices are more expensive for most acts, in most countries.

Just pay the money and go see them, if you really want to see them.  The alternative is, well, NOT seeing them.

This is my whole point dude... me and my crew have deiced NOT to see them. And now I've heard off another friend that tonight's show he's at is very empty...

it's just a shame, that's all. I get that promoters set the prices... but what I'm saying is they're not being very clever.

Lower your prices = more people come = more money in the long run.

[cramx3]

The ticket prices is mostly out of the hands of the artist though.  It would be hard to pin this on DT themselves or say DT has an abilitiy to fix it, they may, but it's not likely. 

I do agree with the general premise that there needs to be a better balance in terms of what the actual value of the tickets are, but it's not always a simple science.

For example, I noticed for the Def Leppard & Poison concert this past weekend, it sold very well, but there was one section dead center middle tier that was empty.  That one section was priced wrong IMO.  These things happen.  It sucks for the fan who didn't get to experience the show due to this, but that's the way that concert worked out. 

Also, if the shows are not selling well, I would check secondary markets.  Typically poorly sold shows will have under face value tickets on sale second hand.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, I love Snarky Puppy, but they aren't as big a name (to the general populace) as DT is, so I'm not surprised in the least that tickets are more expensive for DT.

And the number of people in the band have nothing to do with it.  The number of people in the CREW may have something to do with it, and so does stage production, and DT will have Snarky Puppy beat on both of those.

But I don't get how you can say what a shame it is that the place isn't filled when you are purposely choosing NOT TO GO. 

If you really can't afford it, that's one thing.  I've missed plenty of shows that I couldn't actually afford.  But if it's a show you want to see, and you are ABLE to afford it and choose not to because you arbitrarily decided the price is too high... I just don't get it.

*shrugs*

[Dublagent66]

50 bucks for DT ticket is actually a good price.

[phospheneSOI]

All fair point guys, but something is going seriously wrong when 5 years ago you had to scramble to get good seats in the UK and now - 4 days before my nearest show - there are lots of seats in both the second and third row left.

I don't think it's to do with the Astonishing or no-Portnoy either... fans know they're playing I&W and ACOS. I genuinely think it's sad that DT are playing ACOS and there are a lot of seats left in the the front rows.

£50 for King Crimson in the same city last year. Sold out in days.
£85 for a top tier DT ticket. £50 standard seat. Loads left.

Whoever s setting the prices needs to have a serious word with themselves.

[Dublagent66]

I&W and ACOS are not enough to get people through the doors these days.  The latest work has to be really popular.  5 years ago was a different story.

[Skeever]

I go to a lot of concerts, but I've skipped DT the last several tours, and it's got nothing to do with price. It moreso has to do with lack of enthusiasm for the newer material, and previous mixed experiences where the sound was just not up to par (too loud, muddy, ect., - could be DT's fault, or the venue).  Another point is, I've seen DT 3  times now, and I'd have to be a real super fan to see any band more times than that. There are just so many new things to check out. I wish I had more time and money for concerts.

[rumborak]

50 bucks for DT ticket is actually a good price.

Just pointing out the maybe obvious: $ =/= £

[Adami]

65 dollars ain't bad either.

[King Postwhore]

There's 2 sides to this that for me, it's not about the money.  It cost more for the stage production.  I love the look of their stages lately. 

But with more money for the tickets we've lost the spontaneity of the changing live set.

People were willing to see multiple shows to see the different set lists but now, most do not see them more than once.

[rumborak]

My comment would be that lately, I feel DT live is like watching a tape. MP I think was aware of the danger of them coming across that way, and did all these antics, covers, setlist changes etc to counteract that. All that is gone, and with their shows to click, it feels like a reel running at precise timing.

[KevShmev]

From what I understand, DT themselves don't make the price. DT's tour manager sells the concert - it's up to the promoters who buy the concert to charge whatever they see fit to make a profit. Sure if their concert costs less the promoter need to pay less as well, but it's not DT themselves who decide the ticket price.

I don't believe this for a second.  When you are successful as DT has been, you can have a major say in how much you charge for tickets. 

[TheAtliator]

I guess they (the venue or the band management) have to figure out what price they make the most at in the long run... More people at less per ticket, or fewer people at more per ticket....

But I would definitely add the reason I wouldn't see them twice in one leg is if they are doing static setlists. Change 4 songs and I'm there! That could a pretty big deal for a place like Southern California where they played twice on The Astonishing tour and then twice again later the same year/tour. I would have been at this show:



It's a shame to see that since The Astonishing was such a spectacular show!!!! Just can't afford to see it twice.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I don't think I've paid less than $150 for a DT ticket in the last 15 years, maybe once I got lucky with a week before the show ticketmaster re-release.  Now granted I buy re-sale usually and get front 5 rows, and even a few Meet and Greets.  That all being said, just about every other concert I want to go to is  more expensive than DT for comparable seats.

For younger folks who may not have as much disposable income, I can appreciate the problem.  Again though, in the grand scheme of things from what I've noticed, DT isn't what I would consider overpriced compared to acts the same size (popularity wise) as them.

[Prog Snob]

Dear Phosphene,

Save your money for Music Meant to Be Heard.

Love,

Kevin

[bosk1]

From what I understand, DT themselves don't make the price. DT's tour manager sells the concert - it's up to the promoters who buy the concert to charge whatever they see fit to make a profit. Sure if their concert costs less the promoter need to pay less as well, but it's not DT themselves who decide the ticket price.

I don't believe this for a second.  When you are successful as DT has been, you can have a major say in how much you charge for tickets. 

Well, whether you believe it or not, that isn't really how concert booking works.  It just isn't.  Success doesn't really play into it (unless you are a MAJOR player that can sell out arenas, perhaps, which DT are nowhere near).

[rumborak]

They don't have a direct say, but since they are obviously the creators of the content, they have an implicit influence on the price of their product. That factors in the success of their albums, the elaborateness of the show etc etc.
It's a very similar arrangement to when a retailer stocks somebody's product. There might be a MSRP by the manufacturer, but it's up to the retailer to slap just enough markup on it to make the maximum profit.

[bosk1]

I can completely understand why you would think it would work like that.  That makes sense in almost every setting.  And even for entertainment booking, when you are small enough like your old band or mine, you often have more direct negotiations.  But the industry as a whole just doesn't work like that, even though that is the model for just about everything else.

[rumborak]

I'm actually not disagreeing with you. I'm mostly saying that DT's influence on ticket prices is more through an indirect effect of creating a product that promoters consider worth buying for their venue.

[ToT-147]

For younger folks who may not have as much disposable income, I can appreciate the problem.  Again though, in the grand scheme of things from what I've noticed, DT isn't what I would consider overpriced compared to acts the same size (popularity wise) as them.

And there's a thing called poverty too.. I'm almost sure that's a thing, although I could've heard it wrong..

[noxon]

Eh.

https://www.withguitars.com/dream-theater-2012-uk-dates/

Quote: "Tickets onsale now, priced £45 and £32.50"

Currently; for the UK dates, i see prices from £33.50 to £86.25. (usually three tiers of prices). This isnt the huge price hike you're making it out to be.

And as many have already stated: the band doesnt set the prices, the promoters do. The band sets a price for what it costs to hire them, and then the promoter has to cover hiring the venue (including the staff and security there), hiring the equipment DT needs, and local workers to do the stage rigging before and after the show. This, along with whatever profits the promoters want to make or whatever profit margins the promoters want to have in addition to "breaking even" is what sets the final ticket prices. Add into the fact that bands no longer make much money off of music sales, they have to make their money from SOMEWHERE.

Amazingly enough, things have gotten more expensive over the past 5 years, cause people want a pay rise.

[mikeyd23]

A lot of good conversation in this thread... To me ticket prices for concerts always simply come down to how much an individual likes the band/artist/act. $50 to see DT might seem like way to much to one person, while another might see it as a steal.

Also - 5 years is a long time, especially when you are talking about the music industry. A LOT has changed in those 5 years, and tickets prices have gone up across the board.

[Skeever]

I wonder how much of it stems from the absence of MP, not just as a drummer, but as a frontman.

I'd have to be a really huge fan of a band to go back and see them a 2nd or 3rd time. In Dream Theater's case, to fill the type of venues they play, they are likely asking fans who have already seen them play 3-5 times or more to come out for yet another show.

As stale as things were getting toward the end of MP's involvement, I suspect that having someone like him constantly doing interviews, posting to social media, throwing freebies and selling bonus stuff, and interacting with the fans online and in person goes a long way in maintaining the type of fan that'll go back and see the same band for a 5th or 6th time. Without someone like MP steadily stoking the flames of the hardcore fans, I really do feel like it's dying out, even if the music has improved somewhat.

[mikeyd23]

I wonder how much of it stems from the absence of MP, not just as a drummer, but as a frontman.

I'd have to be a really huge fan of a band to go back and see them a 2nd or 3rd time. In Dream Theater's case, to fill the type of venues they play, they are likely asking fans who have already seen them play 3-5 times or more to come out for yet another show.

As stale as things were getting toward the end of MP's involvement, I suspect that having someone like him constantly doing interviews, posting to social media, throwing freebies and selling bonus stuff, and interacting with the fans online and in person goes a long way in maintaining the type of fan that'll go back and see the same band for a 5th or 6th time. Without someone like MP steadily stoking the flames of the hardcore fans, I really do feel like it's dying out, even if the music has improved somewhat.

Maybe I'm missing something, so please fill me in if I am... But I thought the only tour leg that hasn't sold well since MP left was the second NA run for TA, correct? I think the reasons for that leg not doing well are obvious and don't have anything to do with MP. I was under the impression all their other tours since MP left sold just fine. Remember, they didn't pack every single venue full every time when MP was in the band either.

[noxon]

Yeah, cause we've had NO interviews or behind the scenes stuff the past year and a half at all...

Oh wait...

The DT World ALONE has had (in order of publication):
-1 interview with Jordan
-1 interview with Jordan and JP
-(1 interview with MP)
-1 interview with Jordan again
-1 interview with Jordan about the LMR
-1 e-mail interview with the entire band
-1 video with Keith and Jordan
-1 video with JP and Maddi
-1 video with Mike and Eric
-1 interview with Mike
-1 interview with James
-1 interview with JP and JMX
-1 video showing some behind the scenes stuff
-(1 interview with MP)

Thats JUST what WE have done. And theres been a million other interviews and guitar stuff and keyboard stuff posted on youtube and facebook... We have had MUCH more information out there this past year than we've had in long time.

[cramx3]

I wonder how much of it stems from the absence of MP, not just as a drummer, but as a frontman.

I'd have to be a really huge fan of a band to go back and see them a 2nd or 3rd time. In Dream Theater's case, to fill the type of venues they play, they are likely asking fans who have already seen them play 3-5 times or more to come out for yet another show.

As stale as things were getting toward the end of MP's involvement, I suspect that having someone like him constantly doing interviews, posting to social media, throwing freebies and selling bonus stuff, and interacting with the fans online and in person goes a long way in maintaining the type of fan that'll go back and see the same band for a 5th or 6th time. Without someone like MP steadily stoking the flames of the hardcore fans, I really do feel like it's dying out, even if the music has improved somewhat.

Maybe I'm missing something, so please fill me in if I am... But I thought the only tour leg that hasn't sold well since MP left was the second NA run for TA, correct? I think the reasons for that leg not doing well are obvious and don't have anything to do with MP. I was under the impression all their other tours since MP left sold just fine. Remember, they didn't pack every single venue full every time when MP was in the band either.

From my experience, the DT12 tour was a huge hit with three packed concerts in three different states that I attended.  All priced above $50 a ticket.  I think they averaged $75 a pop.

[cfmoran13]

Speaking for myself, I can honestly say that DT has not been the same for me since September 2010.  Mangini is a monster drummer and can play the sh*t out of just about anything.  However, neither he nor anyone else left in the band has the presence MP had.  Anc, I just haven't had the same enthusiasm for the material or the shows since then.  Granted, a lot of that has to do with me being middle-aged, married with a nine-year-old and just not having the time I once had to dedicate to music.  And, TA (both album and tour) killed a lot of the enthusiasm I still had left.  But DT post-MP just doesn't have the same spark.  It has become somewhat robotic (IMO).  The first two albums they did were fine but, to me, don't hold a candle to the MP-era material.  And, as has already been mentioned, the (fairly) static setlists make it a little less exciting concert-wise. 

That being said, I can't wait for an announcement of an IWaB US tour.  Having come aboard the DT train when I&W first came out, to have a tour where they're focusing on the first material I discovered and loved from them is awesome.

I really hope the next album has a little more life.