The Pat Metheny Discography Thread: Unity Band (2012)

[darkshade]

Hey everyone. I know this is a prog metal site, but I know there's plenty of Jazz fans here. I love Pat Metheny and his music, especially around this time of year, Spring and Summer are just perfect. I never start these kind of threads, but I would enjoy one for this great artist. How familiar is everyone with Pat Metheny and the Pat Metheny Group? He has quite a few albums under his belt, and I feel like his music goes beyond "jazz", his stuff is closer to prog rock than most other jazz musicians, as much of his work has forward-motion during a piece of music (not just players taking solo after solo.) He and his bands bring different influences from all around the world, while perhaps rooted in jazz and rock. His music is deep, and cleanses the soul. He has so much varied music to offer, from jazz-fusion, to rock, to world-jazz, to progressive rock, to post-bop, to avant-garde.

He has about 50 albums, this includes albums as a leader, solo albums, PM Group albums, PM Unity albums, trio albums, and any other album which his name is shared equally with other musicians on the same album. Of course, if we include every album Pat has been on as a sideman, collaborator, or guest, there's another 60 albums or something like that, so I think it would be best to keep it to Pat's main canon.

So any interest in following along a Pat Metheny discography thread? Maybe you only know a few albums, but this would be a great place to learn more about Pat's music. Most of his stuff is online, Spotify, etc... if you don't have certain albums.

[Mosh]

Count me in! I've been meaning to get into his music for a very long time, this would be a good opportunity.

[SoundscapeMN]

totally.

his best stuff is some of my favorite Jazz-Rock.

First Circle, Speaking of Now, Imaginary Day, Offramp among others.

[darkshade]

^ Yes, a lot of his best (and most popular) work is with the Pat Metheny Group. They had quite a few hits on the radio. I hope there is a new PMG album some time soon, The Way Up was the last album, and that album's a masterpiece.

His new band The Pat Metheny 'Unity' Group is up there, KIN () is a great album; but I miss Lyle Mays' contribution to the music. All those Group albums are great, though, and I feel his recent output has been very strong, as the music really grows on you. Pat's also on an album by Logan Richardson, called "Shift" released in 2016, and it's really cool. I'm still digesting it but it has some 70s fusion influences which is cool to hear with Pat's playing in the modern era.

My personal favorite era is the 82-93 period, where the albums leaned heavily on World Music, Latin Jazz and Brazilian music mixed with prog-jazz fusion, and psychedelia. The music contains lots of great, catchy melodies, on top of very colorful rhythms; plus, Pat honed in on, and perfected, his classic signature sound and tone during this time.

[SjundeInseglet]

Considering that Pat is one my all-time favorite musicians (and that "Imaginary Day" ranks as one of the best records ever made in my book), I'd more than willing to follow a PM discography thread.

Don't count on a new PMG album anytime soon though. As far as I know, Lyle Mays doesn't enjoy touring any more and Pat has been on record as saying that he sees no purpose  in recording a new PMG album if he can't do a tour with Lyle to support it.

[darkshade]

Alright, we'll begin tomorrow.

But first, some background on Pat for those interested.

Pat Metheny was born and raised in Lee's Summit, Missouri, a suburb southeast of Kansas City. At age 15, he won a Down Beat scholarship to a one-week jazz camp and was mentored by guitarist Attila Zoller. Zoller invited the young Metheny to New York City to see guitarist Jim Hall and bassist Ron Carter. Following his graduation from Lee's Summit High School, Metheny briefly attended the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida in 1972, where he was offered a teaching position. He then moved to Boston to take a teaching assistantship at the Berklee College of Music with jazz vibraphonist Gary Burton. He established a reputation as a prodigy when he was with Burton.

In 1974 he made his recording debut on an album unofficially titled "Jaco" with pianist Paul Bley, drummer Bruce Ditmas, and bassist Jaco Pastorius, (whom the album was named after, which was also his official recording debut) for Carol Goss's Improvising Artists label.


Metheny entered the wider jazz scene in 1975 when he joined Gary Burton's band, playing with guitarist Mick Goodrick. Metheny and Goodrick were interviewed together by Guitar Player magazine in 1975, bringing them to the attention of guitar aficionados around the world. Pat is featured on Burton's albums Ring (1974), Dreams So Real (1975), and Passengers (1976) under the ECM label.



Pat's albums would be released by ECM until the mid-1980s. Pat would reunite with Gary Burton on later releases.

These are an interesting look into early Pat Metheny's playing. All good albums in their own right, the focus is more on the other musicians, but Pat's great debut album was not far off during this period. His chops are there, and you can hear Pat searching for his sound.

[darkshade]

Here we go.

Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life (1976)


Side I

1.    "Bright Size Life"    4:45
2.    "Sirabhorn"    5:29
3.    "Unity Village"    3:40
4.    "Missouri Uncompromised"    4:21

Side II

5.    "Midwestern Nights Dream"    6:00
6.    "Unquity Road"    3:35
7.    "Omaha Celebration"    4:18
8.    "Round Trip/Broadway Blues" (Ornette Coleman) 4:58


Pat Metheny – 6-string guitar, electric 12-string guitar
Jaco Pastorius – fretless bass
Bob Moses – drums


Recorded in 1975, and released in 1976 while still in Gary Burton's band, Pat Metheny's official debut album, Bright Size Life, is one of the most refreshing albums in Jazz. At the time, fusion was becoming stale and what's labeled as smooth jazz was beginning to take over, or artist were moving away from fusion and moving back to their jazz roots in post-bop, etc... Meanwhile, 3rd wave fusion artists were emerging, such as Pat Metheny, Brand X, and the famous Jaco Pastorius, who is the bassist on this album. He returns here after a stint with Pat on the "JACO" album. The music on this album feels alive, like the instruments are talking to each other. There are soaring melodies, and a few Metheny classics like the title track and "Midwestern Nights Dream" (also called B&G on some releases) which would remain live staples for years to come. Pat's guitar work is the feature here, and his bright tone set him apart from contemporary 1970s jazz-fusion guitarists. His musical influences and mid-western vibe are on full display here. Jaco's masterful bass work compliments the music so well, he almost steals the show. This would be the last official recording with Pat and Jaco, as they would both venture off towards their own career paths; Jaco with Weather Report, and Pat eventually forming the Pat Metheny Group.

Technically, I was wrong about Pat and Jaco being together again on an album.
They both appear on Joni Mitchell's album "Shadow and Light" a few years later in 1979.

[Big Hath]

great album.  Haven't listened to it in quite some time.  Gonna have to rectify that in the coming days.

[Mosh]

Shows how much I listen to Pat Metheny, I had no idea he did an album with Jaco. Love his work with Weather Report and his self titled debut album.

I liked this a lot. Thanks for the historic context, Darkshade. I can imagine something like this being refreshing in 76. It's a stripped down sound but it also doesn't ignore the last 6 years or so of Jazz.

The interaction between Jaco and Pat is a joy to listen to. I was curious about the combination going into this as Jaco has a flashy style that almost fills the role of a guitar player at times, so I was interested in how he would handle playing with an actual guitarist. Turns out it works great because not only can he take a backseat and let Pat do his thing, but Pat also gave him a ton of room to play that lead role. A lot of restraint on this recording that many guitarists lack.

Another interesting thing I noticed is the amount of overdubbing in both the guitar and bass. You'd have the main guitar/bass track and then a solo overdubbed. This didn't happen all the time, but enough times for me to raise an eyebrow.
I'm kinda curious why they decided to do that. I actually thought it was unnecessary and the only (albeit small) flaw on the album for me.
Very unusual for a genre that emphasizes improv as communication between the players.

[SoundscapeMN]

I've always liked Bright Size Life, but for some reason, have not spent as much time with it as many of his others.

And I'm certainly a fan of Jaco.

[Orbert]

I've known of Pat Metheny for a long time, but never really knew much about him.  He was my late sister-in-law's favorite artist, however, and I had a lot of respect for her taste in music.

I have a bunch of albums from back when I went on a mad downloading spree, but still don't know much.  I usually load up Winamp with a dozen or so albums and let it play.  So anyway, I'm here to read and learn, and probably won't contribute much commentary, but you never know.

[hefdaddy42]

Listened to Bright Size Life for the first time in a long time.  Invigorating.  Metheny is, of course, a genius, and the fact that Jaco plays with him is a bonus.

Great thread idea.

[darkshade]

Great responses everyone. As for overdubbing, I don't know the details of that for this album, but I only noticed the main melodies overdubbed by Jaco in Midwestern Nights Dream. The record company ECM didn't want artists to do that, and just record the music live, and not go back in the studio after, which Pat did not prefer, because you couldn't "clean up" the music (which is why there is such a sonic jump in sound after Pat left ECM in the mid 80s and could produce, edit, overdub, and do whatever he wanted in the studio.) Not sure if they still have that philosophy today.

From an article (or blog?) I found online on making the Pat Metheny Group album "American Garage" (which is only a few albums away)

"When a take was finished everyone gathered in the control room and discussed things. If someone made a mistake I explained we could simply ‘drop in’ to the track to repair it rather than lose a great group performance. The purist jazz attitude of ECM’s Manfred Eicher had never allowed Pat to do anything of this nature."

https://richardniles.com/working-on-american-garage-pat-metheny-group-1979/

Pat's next album "Watercolors" is coming soon...

[Orbert]

I'm kinda divided on that.  With live recordings, I always prefer that it be completely unaltered.  I don't mind if there's a bad note or two in an otherwise great performance.  I understand, however, that some people prefer the illusion of a "perfect" live performance of the song.

In the studio, it's usually whatever they can come up with.  The studio version is the ideal, the one they can work with until it really is perfect.  But with jazz, the rules are different somehow.  There are definitely jazz artists who would prefer to capture a great "live in the studio" performance and wouldn't change anything about it, just as with a live performance in a club or whatever.  Metheny's approach to studio work seems more similar to that of rock or other genres; work with it until it's exactly what you want to present to the listener.  I can see both sides.

[ReaperKK]

Never checked out Pat Metheny but I will give a listen and follow this thread.

This is slightly off topic but what song is he playing here at the 1:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M

[Mosh]

I'm kinda divided on that.  With live recordings, I always prefer that it be completely unaltered.  I don't mind if there's a bad note or two in an otherwise great performance.  I understand, however, that some people prefer the illusion of a "perfect" live performance of the song.

In the studio, it's usually whatever they can come up with.  The studio version is the ideal, the one they can work with until it really is perfect.  But with jazz, the rules are different somehow.  There are definitely jazz artists who would prefer to capture a great "live in the studio" performance and wouldn't change anything about it, just as with a live performance in a club or whatever.  Metheny's approach to studio work seems more similar to that of rock or other genres; work with it until it's exactly what you want to present to the listener.  I can see both sides.

I'm by no means a Jazz purist, but I think live in studio approach works best when recording improvised music. Then again, Frank Zappa did studio work to everything and often got good results.

I guess it seemed odd for the more stripped down sound of Bright Size Life. Not only do you miss out on interaction between the players, but I find some of these tunes to be too busy when there are overdubs. But maybe this approach will have better results on future albums. After all, this is pretty early in his career.

[darkshade]

I'm kinda divided on that.  With live recordings, I always prefer that it be completely unaltered.  I don't mind if there's a bad note or two in an otherwise great performance.  I understand, however, that some people prefer the illusion of a "perfect" live performance of the song.

In the studio, it's usually whatever they can come up with.  The studio version is the ideal, the one they can work with until it really is perfect.  But with jazz, the rules are different somehow.  There are definitely jazz artists who would prefer to capture a great "live in the studio" performance and wouldn't change anything about it, just as with a live performance in a club or whatever.  Metheny's approach to studio work seems more similar to that of rock or other genres; work with it until it's exactly what you want to present to the listener.  I can see both sides.

I'm by no means a Jazz purist, but I think live in studio approach works best when recording improvised music. Then again, Frank Zappa did studio work to everything and often got good results.

I guess it seemed odd for the more stripped down sound of Bright Size Life. Not only do you miss out on interaction between the players, but I find some of these tunes to be too busy when there are overdubs. But maybe this approach will have better results on future albums. After all, this is pretty early in his career.

From what I can tell, the overdubs are just added parts to the song, such as in Midwestern Nights Dream, not overdubbing mistakes and flubs.

However, as I said earlier, Pat Metheny has always been half-prog rock artist, half-jazz/fusion artist. There's a lot of written music on Pat's solo albums and on Pat Metheny Group albums, with plenty of room, of course, for improv. So being able to use a studio like rock musicians do, and get those perfect takes was something Metheny desired.

[darkshade]

Pat Metheny - Watercolors (1977)


Side I
1. "Watercolors" 6:28
2. "Icefire"    6:07
3. "Oasis"    4:02
4. "Lakes"    4:43

Side II
1. "River Quay" 4:56
2. "Suite: I. Florida Greeting Song" 2:30
3. "Suite: II. Legend of the Fountain" 2:28
4. "Sea Song" 10:18


Pat Metheny – guitar, 12-string guitar, 15-string harp guitar
Lyle Mays – piano
Eberhard Weber – bass
Danny Gottlieb – drums

Pat Metheny's second solo album and follow up to Bright Size Life. Pat's style here is similar to the previous album, maybe more mellow, and definitely brings images of water and related images (thus the album title I guess) in both the music and the song titles. This album is like a predecessor to the Pat Metheny Group, as this is the first album Lyle Mays appears on a Metheny album, and original PM Group drummer Danny Gottlieb appears here for the first time as well. Joining this group is fellow band mate from Gary Burton's band, Eberhard Weber, and while he's not Jaco Pastorius, he is a master bassist himself, and provides some great melodic lines on top of holding the framework of the music together. But of course, it's all about Pat here. His guitar is very clean, and bright, as was his sound in the late 70s. Lyle Mays also plays some beautiful passages on the album. This isn't my favorite Metheny album, both for being in the shadow of Bright Size Life, Pat would also go on to create greater music, and being that it's a little more mellow than BSL, I find this album is a good early morning album with some coffee, as opposed to a loud, driving down the highway music kind of an album. Worth checking out if you like Pat, Lyle, or jazz in general, but not an essential album.

[Orbert]

What I like about Pat's music is that is feels "bright" and generally uplifting, happy, whatever positive adjectives you might come up with, but it's not the homogenized "smooth jazz" that just takes it too far and becomes hyper-produced nice-sounding background music.  This is real jazz, but without the heavy, and without the obvious blues influence.  I'm listening to Bright Size Life right now (Watercolors is next) and I can totally see putting this on in the morning and sipping coffee.

[DT89]

Never checked out Pat Metheny but I will give a listen and follow this thread.

This is slightly off topic but what song is he playing here at the 1:00 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaVQZP6A_M

The song is Minuano (Six Eight), the opening track on Still Life (Talking).

Pat is one of my absolute favorite musicians, glad to see this thread.

[ReaperKK]

Thanks DT89

[Nekov]

Pat's works with Lyle Mays are fantastic. I'll be following this thread since it's been a while since I listened to his music

[Orbert]

Yeah, I like his work with Lyle Mays.  He's pretty much the same as Pat, but on keys instead.  I saw a video one time where Pat referred to Lyle as his "partner", but I wasn't sure if he meant that as a partner in musical collaboration, or something else.  It didn't matter that much, but I actually thought it would be kinda cool if they were life partners as well as musical partners.  The Captain and Tennille of the the jazz world.

[darkshade]

What I like about Pat's music is that is feels "bright" and generally uplifting, happy, whatever positive adjectives you might come up with, but it's not the homogenized "smooth jazz" that just takes it too far and becomes hyper-produced nice-sounding background music.  This is real jazz, but without the heavy, and without the obvious blues influence.  I'm listening to Bright Size Life right now (Watercolors is next) and I can totally see putting this on in the morning and sipping coffee.

I agree. There's enough jazz, as you described, out there. Of course, Pat has done lots of stuff that is more post-bop, "contemporary", blues, etc... but within his solo albums, and Group albums, the music is more progressive, with a wider choice of chords and feels, especially with a heavy Midwestern background. This is what separates him from 'smooth' jazz artists, but also separates him from classic 70s fusion musicians, and his ability to incorporate so many style and genres into his music over the years, while also developing one of the most recognizable guitar tones in music, is what would separate him and the PM Group from 80s jazz artists.

[Mosh]

I liked this. I thought it was different enough from Bright Size Life to be worth listening to. For one thing, the bass playing is much less flashy. I found Weber to be more of a traditional playing style mixed with a bright Jaco-esque tone. Pretty amazing to hear Jaco's influence already being felt in other players. Then there's the addition of the piano player. The textures in sound and role of the various instruments is a bit more traditional sounding for these reasons. But the music being played isn't trad Jazz, so it's an interesting combo.

I also noticed more pieces that were less improv driven and more based on attempts at creating a mood/texture with the sound. Lots of really nice solo guitar bits.

[Orbert]

Sea Song.  Wow!

[PintoZ]

I absolutely adore Pat Metheny...
One of my alltime favorite albums is actually 
The first time I heard the opening track "Above The Treetops" I had instant goosebumps.
This album is a marvelous blend of world music and fusion, very inspirational, radiant music, a true work of art.

[PintoZ]

The Way Up was the last album, and that album's a masterpiece.

I absolutely agree on that !
Everyone just shines on this album, I especially love Antonio Sánchez' tasty drumming.
This one maybe could appeal more to prog fans since it has these long 20min-long pieces

[darkshade]

I absolutely adore Pat Metheny...
One of my alltime favorite albums is actually 
The first time I heard the opening track "Above The Treetops" I had instant goosebumps.
This album is a marvelous blend of world music and fusion, very inspirational, radiant music, a true work of art.

Secret Story is definitely top 3, sometimes I think it's the best album with his name on it. Some of the most beautiful, inspiring music I've ever heard.

Pretty amazing to hear Jaco's influence already being felt in other players.

Wait until we get to the next album.

[darkshade]

OK, time to move on.

Pat Metheny Group - Pat Metheny Group (1978)


Side I

1.    "San Lorenzo" 10:14
2.    "Phase Dance" 8:18

Side II

1.    "Jaco" 5:34
2.    "Aprilwind" 2:09
3.    "April Joy" 8:14
4.    "Lone Jack" 6:41


    Pat Metheny – 6- and 12-string electric and acoustic guitars
    Lyle Mays – piano, Oberheim synthesizer, autoharp
    Mark Egan – fretless electric bass
    Danny Gottlieb – drums


This is the first Pat Metheny Group album, self titled, and is the same lineup as Watercolors but with bassist Mark Egan joining. This is also considered an actual band, apart from Pat's solo albums or collaborations with other artists, and had consistent members, as well as lineup changes like any other band would have. This album is nothing like Watercolors, as Lyle Mays has more influence on the music, has many writing credits, etc... The music is also closer to jazz-rock of the time, but with lusher harmonies, Pat and Lyle aren't the usual 70s jazz-rock musicians. In fact, there was a purpose of going against the status-quo of jazz-rock/fusion of the time. There is a more reflective mood in the music, there are triumphant moments, more Mid-Western, the music at times feels like driving through the countryside, wind in your face, and fields and farms as far as the eye can see. The music is way more structured than most jazz-rock of the 70s, very much composed while still leaving plenty of room for improvisation.

Pat's tone is similar to Watercolors and Bright Size Life, still brighter, more metallic than he is known for. Lyle introduces synths in this album, very tasteful ones, heard best on the opener, San Lorenzo, one of the Group's most well known tunes, as well as Phase Dance, another signature tune, and was also famously covered by the band Phish (guitarist Trey Anastasio is highly influenced by Pat Metheny.) Most keyboardists were very flashy in the 1970s, but Lyle took a more restrained approach, and I think his playing is very beautiful, both on the Group albums and his solo albums.

I really like the opener, San Lorenzo, great melodies, and wonderful solo by Lyle Mays. Much of Pat Metheny's music (especially the PM Group albums) makes me feel a bit nostalgic at times, and that is one of those tunes that does it. The second tune, Phase Dance, sees Pat really take hold and play a very energetic improvised solo. It's crazy that by 1978 Jaco Pastorius' influence can be felt in the jazz world, and on this album it's very obvious. Original bassist Mark Egan has that "Jaco" sound, though not as flashy as Jaco was, still created some good bass parts. The next tune, titled "Jaco" is an obvious tribute to the aforementioned legend of Jazz bass. It kind of makes sense, this tune has a funky groove, a 'cool' melody, feels laid back, but with a little bit of an aggressive edge, with some fantastic early Pat work. This tune is the closest to classic 70s jazz-rock as the band would get. Mark Egan also does his best "Jaco impression" at one point. Next up is the pair of Aprilwind/April Joy, and it is appropriate because it's still April right now. The first part is a Pat alone, it's more reflective piece, and feels like a leftover from Watercolors. It moves into April Joy, and the rest of the band slowly joins in, lots of Jaco-like bass playing here. It is a brighter tune, Pat brings in some catchy melodies, this is one of those feel-good tunes, makes you feel happy. The last tune is Lone Jack, a jazzier piece, some fast playing. A good way to close the album.

How many jazz-rock groups made albums with great melodies everywhere, and still played some serious jazz-rock without sliding into pop or crossover jazz territory?

All of the Pat Metheny Group albums are essential to any Pat Metheny fan, in my opinion they are all Pat's best albums, a top 20 of his discography would probably include all PM Group albums. This first self titled album is a great debut for the band, and they became very popular quickly after this album was released. Like pop star big, something not seen in Jazz before. Pat Metheny Group and Weather Report had hit singles on the radio in the late 70s through the 1980s, and played big venues live. This is sometimes why those bands were labelled "smooth jazz" because they were more commercial, and the music was more accessible. Funny, I don't think modern audiences would find anything from Pat Metheny Group accessible today.

[darkshade]

**bump**

[Mosh]

Will get to this today or tomorrow.

[Nihil-Morari]

I've got some catching up to do, will get to it soon! Really love The Way Up, as well as a couple of other albums, but I'm really interested to see what other stuff he's made.

[Orbert]

Yeah, I'm behind, too.  I listened to this over the weekend, but other than finding it all very good, I can't think of much to comment on specifically.

[Mosh]

That was some of the most subtle synthesizer playing I've ever heard. Loved the way a synth note would start out small and slowly crescendo.

So far the appeal of Metheny's music is the textures created between him and his band. The smooth jazz comparison is being thrown around a lot here but I think this is where the distinction starts. Most smooth jazz sounds hollow and artificial to me. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's almost like it's not music meant to be listened to, but something to throw on as a background at parties or on a TV show. You can use Metheny as background music too I suppose, but even when I was listening to this album while browsing the internet there were many moments that grabbed me and caused me to devote all my attention to the music. It doesn't sound complicated the way Frank Zappa or Dream Theater does, but it's very hypnotic.

Lots of versatility in Pat's playing too. He plays with a lot of restraint usually, but it's cool hearing him shred like on Lone Jack.