Author Topic: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon  (Read 5574 times)

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Online cramx3

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2017, 02:18:18 PM »
As someone who's bought and sold an engagement ring before  :lol I am totally with you as it being not something to spend a lot of money on.  For one, it is not a good investment.  Yes, it has real life value, but it's not the same as buying gold or buying a house.  The purchase of the diamond alone, the difference in it's actual value and the price you pay (more than the real value for profit to the seller) will likely be more than any increase in value you'll see over your life (AKA, you are unlikely to be able to sell it for more money in the future... now of course we all know you'll never sell it, but the point is that it's not a good investment overall if one were to look at it that way).  Second, the money spent on it has likely, maybe not though (I don't know your money situation), better uses for your future as a couple/family.   Don't forget you'll want to also take out insurance on it if you were to spend a lot. 

Sadly it was a made up thing for our culture that stuck and a lot of women feel strongly about their ring.  My ex actually picked out her ring.  We just went to look and she found one she really liked but we were "just looking" she thought.  I bought it and didn't pop the question for a few months to let it simmer and be forgotten, which it was.  But it didn't take long for her to complain and question the idea of getting a bigger stone.  I paid 5k at the time and I was in a worse job than I am in now so that 5k was not as easy as it is today to pay.  When she asked about a bigger stone, I knew I had made the wrong decision.  Someone who values that is not really the type of person for me.  I've got to imagine that by now, your future fiance knows you well enough to know you don't like these traditions and that she wouldn't expect a huge rock so hopefully that won't happen to you.

Did you get the ring back?

Yes after a lot of fighting (at least in NJ she had no legal right to it), sold it for a small fraction of what I paid, but put it all on black in Vegas at 3am on a Friday morning and lost  :lol

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2017, 02:22:02 PM »
On the flip side... not everyone getting married is financially in the place to be able to pick up the whole tab.  The tradition of the bride's family paying for the wedding is indeed antiquated, not is not often financially viable.

And on that same flip side, I don't think that a wedding should be any different than any other thing that your (royal you) kid wants and can't afford.  Get a second job.  Save the money.  Donate blood.  Strip.  Whatever it takes to get that which you desire.  One day, when I'm dead and gone, your landlord (or the bank) isn't going to care if you can't afford to pay the rent/mortgage.  Learn the lesson now, before you get to that point.


Orbert's story about asking the father's "permission":


Fred had been in college for seven years and had switched majors so many times that he was nowhere near a degree.  Meanwhile, he was working at the pizza place with my sister.  They'd been dating for three or four years, when he proposed to her.

Fred thought it would be really cool to ask my dad for permission to marry my sister.  It was known that my dad's opinion of Fred wasn't great, but presumably my dad would be so impressed by this old-fashioned move that it would raise his opinion of Fred and he would grant persmission.

My dad considered the request, and (paraphrasing, since I wasn't there) said "Well, since you're asking, the answer is No.  My daughter could do a lot better."

They ended up eloping.

Again, Orbert stories are always the best.


Yes after a lot of fighting (at least in NJ she had no legal right to it), sold it for a small fraction of what I paid, but put it all on black in Vegas at 3am on a Friday morning and lost  :lol


Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2017, 02:30:31 PM »
@ Orbert... the best!

@ Coz... I completely understand, respect that view, and agree to the extent that no one should ever *expect* the bride's family to pay for a wedding.  If either family can or wants to contribute to the finances of the event ... great.  Have at it.  But no bride or groom should ever expect or need it to get married.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2017, 02:58:25 PM »
Yeah, I'm nowhere near as fond of weddings as Cozmo is. Fucking insanity.

Best of luck, Bryan.
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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2017, 03:11:55 PM »
Yea, I should add a congrats!  In the midst of thinking and reading/writing about rings, I forgot to say congrats on getting ready to pull the trigger.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2017, 03:19:23 PM »
Send an invitation to Bill Murray. Who knows, maybe he shows. In fact, each of you should pick 10 famous people you admire to send invites to, on the off chance one of them happens to be in CT that weekend. Ron Howard lives there. He seems like a really nice guy.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2017, 03:25:20 PM »
Send an invitation to Bill Murray. Who knows, maybe he shows.
Wouldn't shock me.
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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2017, 04:56:42 PM »
Orbert's story about asking the father's "permission":

Fred had been in college for seven years and had switched majors so many times that he was nowhere near a degree.  Meanwhile, he was working at the pizza place with my sister.  They'd been dating for three or four years, when he proposed to her.

Fred thought it would be really cool to ask my dad for permission to marry my sister.  It was known that my dad's opinion of Fred wasn't great, but presumably my dad would be so impressed by this old-fashioned move that it would raise his opinion of Fred and he would grant persmission.

My dad considered the request, and (paraphrasing, since I wasn't there) said "Well, since you're asking, the answer is No.  My daughter could do a lot better."

They ended up eloping.

Out of fairness to my brother-in-law, I should mention that he eventually did actually manage to graduate, even picked up a Master's some years later, and finally a PhD.  The PhD was just last year, but that's more than I'll ever accomplish.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2017, 09:03:33 PM »
On the tux subject, my friend had a pretty good system for his wedding. He waited for one of those buy-one-get-one type of sales at Jos. A. Bank, got our measurements, and just bought us all the same suit. We still paid for it, but we each got to keep a suit, and it cost us all about $215 a piece.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2017, 07:23:03 AM »
Scott Conant is from your neck of the woods!  Maybe he'll cook your dinner.  Meryl Streep is in Litchfield!  Maybe she can do the speech (your wife will love that!).   Michael Bolton used to live in Milford!   Maybe he can sing at the ceremony.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2017, 10:49:30 AM »
Scott Conant is from your neck of the woods!  Maybe he'll cook your dinner.  Meryl Streep is in Litchfield!  Maybe she can do the speech (your wife will love that!).   Michael Bolton used to live in Milford!   Maybe he can sing at the ceremony.
If you invite somebody with a wedding translatable talent they'll never show. Bolton would know he'd be expected to sing. Streep or Murray would just have to show up and enjoy themselves without being on the clock. ND-Tyson is close enough that he might entertain the thought of a train ride up.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2017, 01:20:55 PM »
Scott Conant is from your neck of the woods!  Maybe he'll cook your dinner.  Meryl Streep is in Litchfield!  Maybe she can do the speech (your wife will love that!).   Michael Bolton used to live in Milford!   Maybe he can sing at the ceremony.
If you invite somebody with a wedding translatable talent they'll never show. Bolton would know he'd be expected to sing. Streep or Murray would just have to show up and enjoy themselves without being on the clock. ND-Tyson is close enough that he might entertain the thought of a train ride up.

Good point; there's no win with Conant putting on the apron.   A bunch of tweets "that sucked.  Conant is CHOPPED!"

Chino, does the casino factor into your plans in any way?

Offline Chino

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2017, 01:24:11 PM »

Chino, does the casino factor into your plans in any way?

Idk. Maybe. When my oldest friend got married last August, we got rooms at Mohegan and went Mynx (I think that's what it's called) strip club. It was a good night outside of one of the guys in the party puking all over the stripper I was about to get a lap dance from.

I'm always down for a casino trip. Being in CT, I don't need a special occasion to head down there. I tried to get a DTF Casino trip together a few years ago, but nothing came of it. The offer is still on the table.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 01:40:48 PM by Chino »

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2017, 01:30:39 PM »
I tried to get a DTF Casino trip together a few years ago, but nothing came of it. The offer is still on the table.

That was only last year, and I am still down for it  :lol

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2017, 03:29:13 PM »
I'm late to the party, I guess. I went the low priced, high romance route and made our wedding rings myself.

I purchased a couple of pretty white but high with inclusions diamonds. No one looks at them under a glass anyway. If they sparkle, the'll do. I made a few drawings and modified them to future Mrs. P's liking. Went to a jeweler supply store and bought a mandrel, various carving waxes, various melting waxes, an alcohol lamp, a smoothing torch an investment casting mold and went to town.

When the wax rings were finished, I had the supply store investment cast them for me (just so I wouldn't fuck it up) in 24 k gold. For the extra touch of romance, they were both cast in the same mold. Then I took the stones and rings to a master jeweler and had him mount the stones.

All told, it took about a month to accomplish and saved an enormous amount of money. Mrs. P's ring was recently appraised at just under $10k (for insurance purposes) and I don't think we spent even $2k total for both rings. Plus, I still have the ring making tools!  :biggrin:

If you're interested, I could post some pics when I get home.

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2017, 03:41:19 PM »
That's certainly an interesting route that I've never heard of anyone taking.

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2017, 03:47:43 PM »
I used to read a lot of craftsman books back in the day, Cram, and jewelry making fascinated me. I took a high-school extension evening class to try hands on investment casting to get the hang of it. That's what pretty much decided me on letting the pros do the actual casting. I was pretty sure I could make the wax facsimiles... and as it turned out, I could.

Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2017, 03:48:42 PM »
That's pretty cool!

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2017, 03:50:38 PM »
That's certainly an interesting route that I've never heard of anyone taking.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2017, 03:52:21 PM »
Very cool, indeed.  I would love to see pictures. 

Speaking of pictures, that story just screams out for an "unconventional" wedding photo of the two of you holding hands as a close-up of your hands with the rings.  Did you by any chance do something like that?
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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #91 on: April 04, 2017, 03:58:07 PM »
Did you also make one ring to rule them all?

Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

And yea, definitely seems like something Chino could be interested in. He's already got a 3d printer.

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #92 on: April 04, 2017, 04:07:46 PM »
Very cool, indeed.  I would love to see pictures. 

Speaking of pictures, that story just screams out for an "unconventional" wedding photo of the two of you holding hands as a close-up of your hands with the rings.  Did you by any chance do something like that?

Funny you should mention that. After my post, I logged into my cloud drive to see if the pictures were there. Apparently, that's the only digital picture I have (it was long enough ago that all the other photos are prints. Not a great photo...



I'll need to scan the making photos and upload them later.

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #93 on: April 04, 2017, 04:21:07 PM »
One of Gregg's Making Of pics is already circulating on the internet. Damn Gregg, you were one hot dude in your youth!



























would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #94 on: April 04, 2017, 04:40:10 PM »
I haven't had that much hair on my head in 38 years, Tim.  :lol

Offline TempusVox

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #95 on: April 04, 2017, 09:53:25 PM »
1.  Avoid chains like Hyperplex said.
2.  Find out what she likes.
3.  In the event you do not want to do #2 first or it turns out that you are mistaken or that she just flat out changes her mind, find out what the return/exchange policy is and make sure it is in writing prior to purchase.  Many places assume the guy will pick out something he thinks his future bride will like to surprise her, and that the two of them will then come back and jointly shop for something else as her eventual "forever" ring once the wedding date is closer.

This.

Also, try and find a diamond broker or gemologist jeweler in your area. Avoid any place that has track lighting. Track lighting is in EVERY mall jeweler because they make EVERY stone shine like crazy.

Here in Cincinnati there is a broker called Koch Jewelry. They're on like the 10th floor of an office building. They never advertise, yet have been in business for over 50 years. A friend told me about them when I got married the first time. I made an appointment and the gemologist took me back into their vault and gave me a lesson on diamonds that I'll never forget. He told me:
1. Know what you want to spend.
2. Buy for quality not carrat. My ex wife wanted a 2c+ princess cut. But that was to to be outside of my budget.

Then he showed me how most stores sell crap. He placed a stone in a setting and had me look at it under a microscope. It was beautiful. Then he dumped the stone on a white sheet of paper, and it was yellow as fuck. We looked at the loose stone under the scope and it was loaded with carbon and imperfections. The lesson...stones that are preset hide poor quality. Buy a loose stone you pick out and have it mounted in a setting.

We talked about the 4 c' s and I was blown away by what I learned.

 Most bad stones are cut with a shallow cut, which allows the light to escape the bottom and sides, but since they're pre mounted they still sparkle, so we went with a stone that was Ideal cut, and it's brilliance was like a white hot fire, no matter where you were in the room when you looked at it. This cut meant it was a round diamond now.

As for Clarity I chose an IF stone, which means Internally Flawless. This is a very rare stone. It had no inclusions and minute blemishes, you'd need to be a gemologist with about a 20x microscope to see.

But anything at VVS or VS is still an excellent stone. Most of them are what are known as "eye clean" that means you'll never see anything bad with the naked eye.

It was about a two hour education that I've cherished ever since. We wound up with a nearly flawless stone that was 3/4 carrat. It was worth more than just about any of the larger stones her friends had, and she loved it.

I've bought jewelry at other places since, but I'll never buy a diamond anywhere else. In fact, I bought the second Mrs. Vox a flawless emerald cut diamond there. It cost me almost 40 grand. About a year after we were married, she was with a girlfriend at a local chain jewelry store who was buying her husband a watch. The jeweler saw my wife's ring and asked if he could take a closer look. He looked at it under his loupe and then after telling her how gorgeous it was asked if he could see it under the scope that was on the counter. So she took it off and in front of her he looked at it and said, "It's not every day I see an 80,000 dollar ring come walking in here."

Buy quality, buy a stone and have it set, and avoid chains.

Like the gemologist told me all those years ago..."Nearly everyone buys quantity. If you have the money, I can get you the Star of Africa if you want it. But if you don't have that kind of money, why would you want your wife to wear a big piece of junk? If it's smaller, but an heirloom quality stone that will appreciate over generations, that's a much better way to go".

EDIT.

I'll also leave you with this nugget from a priest the first time I got married. He said, " Couples spend an enormous amount of time, effort, money, and energy planning and preparing for the FIRST day of their marriage; and not nearly enough of all of that on the REST of the days of their marriage".

Congrats and good luck.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:03:27 PM by TempusVox »
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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2017, 06:21:13 AM »
^ That's all really good advice. I would encourage Chino to listen to it. While I don't have TV's moola, I also value good diamonds enough to pay as much as I can afford for them.

Chino, to get a .5 k diamond, good cut, VS through VVS, with an F color or better, you'll bust your initial ring budget just on the stone ($1,500 - $2,000) but I think it's a wise investment and worth some consideration.

Offline Chino

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2017, 07:15:36 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

@Temp: Kudos for that writeup. I will definitely be taking that into account. I know I said $2000 was my limit, but I'm horrible at staying within budget, and when it comes to Victoria, I usually cave. I'll be nowhere near $40K territory, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up talking myself into spending near double of what I said I'm limiting myself to.

@Podaar: Awesome story. I've actually forged rings before, but I never poured one with a casting method. Sounds like a great project. I'm going for the element of surprise here, and there's no way I could pull that off without her knowing.



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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #98 on: April 05, 2017, 07:19:45 AM »

@Podaar: Awesome story. I've actually forged rings before, but I never poured one with a casting method. Sounds like a great project. I'm going for the element of surprise here, and there's no way I could pull that off without her knowing.


Yeah, I kinda wondered about that. Congrats, and enjoy the process. Love is the best thing ever...closely followed by music, of course.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #99 on: April 05, 2017, 07:33:41 AM »
Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

And yea, definitely seems like something Chino could be interested in. He's already got a 3d printer.

HAHA, that got a laugh out loud.   HAHA.   That's what he should do, make the ring with the Kickstarter printer!


Podaar, that is cooler than cool.  That's the kind of thing I hear about and say "Dammit!  If there's a third marriage..."  :) 

Offline bosk1

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #100 on: April 05, 2017, 07:49:37 AM »
@Temp: Kudos for that writeup. I will definitely be taking that into account. I know I said $2000 was my limit, but I'm horrible at staying within budget, and when it comes to Victoria, I usually cave. I'll be nowhere near $40K territory, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up talking myself into spending near double of what I said I'm limiting myself to.

Well, there's no reason a budget can't be revised, you know?  People who are good with their money always set budgets for major purchases.  But, IMO, as you go through the process of getting more educated about the purchase, there's nothing wrong with rescaling the budget if you believe it is warranted based on your research.  As long as you can afford it and you are happy with the purchase at the end of the day, that's the main thing.
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Offline Chino

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #101 on: April 05, 2017, 07:56:12 AM »
@Temp: Kudos for that writeup. I will definitely be taking that into account. I know I said $2000 was my limit, but I'm horrible at staying within budget, and when it comes to Victoria, I usually cave. I'll be nowhere near $40K territory, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up talking myself into spending near double of what I said I'm limiting myself to.

Well, there's no reason a budget can't be revised, you know?  People who are good with their money always set budgets for major purchases.  But, IMO, as you go through the process of getting more educated about the purchase, there's nothing wrong with rescaling the budget if you believe it is warranted based on your research.  As long as you can afford it and you are happy with the purchase at the end of the day, that's the main thing.

I hear you. That $2000 limit I set has little to do with my finances and almost everything to do with me being stubborn and thinking spending that kind of money of a rock is absurd   :rollin

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #102 on: April 05, 2017, 07:58:18 AM »
Chino seems like a similarly minded person, so I thought I'd throw it out to consider.

And yea, definitely seems like something Chino could be interested in. He's already got a 3d printer.

HAHA, that got a laugh out loud.   HAHA.   That's what he should do, make the ring with the Kickstarter printer!


Podaar, that is cooler than cool.  That's the kind of thing I hear about and say "Dammit!  If there's a third marriage..."  :)

To that point... this is my third marriage.  :lol

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #103 on: April 05, 2017, 08:20:36 AM »
"Dammit!  If there's a third marriage..."

I obviously didn't learn my lesson the first two times.  :lol

Online Podaar

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Re: The ridiculous 'tradition' of buying a overpriced chunk of carbon
« Reply #104 on: April 05, 2017, 08:30:57 AM »
 :lol

That sounds like a Henny Youngman bit.