Author Topic: The addictions thread  (Read 65170 times)

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Online lonestar

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #525 on: June 09, 2023, 08:04:23 AM »
I've been an active atheist in AA the whole time, whole the language is thick within the fellowship, the actual program can definitely be done from a secular perspective. That's one myth that AA definitely needs to overcome, there's even talk of a rewriting of our basic text to make them more accessible to all alcoholics in need.

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #526 on: June 09, 2023, 01:31:52 PM »
Ruba, great to see you again and you've been missed. I hope you stick around for a bit.

I stopped drinking this winter because like you, my AST and ALT readings were off the charts. Turns out I'm showing early signs of cirrhosis. It's a of the Non Alcoholic fatty liver disease caused by my diabetes. But I was advised to stop and I have. I did have two beers out for dinner on our anniversary (they sucked too!) and a couple of shots of rum after a minor procedure. I'm not in danger of getting drunk or restart drinking in earnest though, so I don't have those demons to fight. It's just that I really enjoyed drinking beer, or trying new ones.

Good luck with this. Sounds like you have a consciousness about it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Skeever

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #527 on: June 09, 2023, 07:17:45 PM »
Ruba, I had a similar scare like this with my doc calling me to talk about liver enzymes levels. I haven't stopped drinking completely but Def recommend you try to plug the whole od getting drunk once or twice a week with something productive. For me it's been a combo of a lifting/diet regime and learning an instrument with a weekly lesson.

Offline Ruba

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #528 on: June 10, 2023, 03:45:47 AM »
Ruba, great to see you again and you've been missed. I hope you stick around for a bit.

Aww shucks... thanks man. I've been thinking of this forum and people from here from time to time, I've not forgotten about you.

I stopped drinking this winter because like you, my AST and ALT readings were off the charts. Turns out I'm showing early signs of cirrhosis. It's a of the Non Alcoholic fatty liver disease caused by my diabetes. But I was advised to stop and I have. I did have two beers out for dinner on our anniversary (they sucked too!) and a couple of shots of rum after a minor procedure. I'm not in danger of getting drunk or restart drinking in earnest though, so I don't have those demons to fight. It's just that I really enjoyed drinking beer, or trying new ones.

Good on you listening the doctor's advice. I feel the last part, I did also enjoy trying out new beers. There's not nearly as many types of different soda as beer or liquor!  :lol

I did get new blood analysis taken earlier this year and my liver's back within healthy parameters.  :) Unfortunately I had more bad news two years back, when they took an ultrasound of my liver (turned out there was also a 'healthy' amount of fat around it) that my other kidney was no longer working. It's not necessarily due to alcohol, but I doubt it was helping. My insides have definitely taken a beating. And I'm not even 30 yet!

Ruba, I had a similar scare like this with my doc calling me to talk about liver enzymes levels. I haven't stopped drinking completely but Def recommend you try to plug the whole od getting drunk once or twice a week with something productive. For me it's been a combo of a lifting/diet regime and learning an instrument with a weekly lesson.

Yeah, I feel like doing something productive is a good preventative measure. I also exercise but not as regularly as I'd like, but I'd probably want to find yet another hobby. I'm doing some volunteer work at events this summer, I've been enjoying working as an official at local athletics meets, but I've also been asking about working at music festivals.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #529 on: June 26, 2023, 01:28:32 PM »
'Officially' 15 years sober now. I went and got a 15 year sobriety tattoo back in the end of April because my tattoo artist had a spot open up (he's booked nearly year round) But, the end of June 2008 is when I officially began this journey. A bit bummed I didn't commit to memory the exact date...but...I knew/know it was very close to my youngest sons B-Day which is today and that it was in late June of 08'

So...anyway....here we are 15 years later. It's pretty crazy to think about when I actually sit and take the time to think about.

To all of you out there in DTF land who've shown support...I appreciate it. To those who might be struggling, if you ever want to PM me please do. I'm no expert by any means....just a guy who's still fighting the urges and temptations near every week who has happened to learn to live with it all.



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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #530 on: June 26, 2023, 01:34:04 PM »
Here's your CHiP.



Seriously though ... awesome Gary.  So happy for ya.
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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #531 on: June 26, 2023, 02:06:25 PM »
Gary, really happy for you...











Oh wow, that hurt..  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #532 on: June 26, 2023, 02:54:36 PM »
 :lol   Totally worth it
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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #533 on: June 26, 2023, 02:57:32 PM »
Great job, Gary.  Proud for you. 

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #534 on: June 26, 2023, 03:09:15 PM »
'Officially' 15 years sober now. I went and got a 15 year sobriety tattoo back in the end of April because my tattoo artist had a spot open up (he's booked nearly year round) But, the end of June 2008 is when I officially began this journey. A bit bummed I didn't commit to memory the exact date...but...I knew/know it was very close to my youngest sons B-Day which is today and that it was in late June of 08'

So...anyway....here we are 15 years later. It's pretty crazy to think about when I actually sit and take the time to think about.

To all of you out there in DTF land who've shown support...I appreciate it. To those who might be struggling, if you ever want to PM me please do. I'm no expert by any means....just a guy who's still fighting the urges and temptations near every week who has happened to learn to live with it all.


That's awesome man, congratulations!
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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #535 on: June 26, 2023, 04:53:58 PM »
May you always be 3 years ahead of me.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #536 on: June 27, 2023, 10:22:23 PM »
Gary, appreciate your willingness to be open and upfront with everyone here, both when times are good, and when they aren't so good.
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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #537 on: June 27, 2023, 11:33:22 PM »
Gary, appreciate your willingness to be open and upfront with everyone here, both when times are good, and when they aren't so good.

Well…..Luke many here on the forum……I truly appreciate the friendships and community here. I’ve learned a lot from many of you…..in a variety of forms so I only hope by sharing and talking about things that I can contribute.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #538 on: June 28, 2023, 04:39:57 AM »
Great stuff Gary.  That's a hell of an achievement.  :metal
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Offline PMSummer

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #539 on: August 22, 2023, 07:30:59 AM »
Just wanted to share an update on my journey – I'm three weeks nicotine-free. It's been a real rollercoaster, gotta admit. The first days were tough with cravings hitting hard. But I stuck with it, reminding myself why I quit.

Breaking habits tied to smoking has been tricky – post-meal cigs, breaks at work, even driving. Replacing them with walks and deep breaths helps. Sleep's been a mess, but I hear that's part of the process.

Proud of three weeks smoke-free after years of lighting up. Long road ahead, but I'm taking it day by day. To others quitting, stay strong!

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #540 on: August 22, 2023, 07:35:22 AM »
Outstanding, keep up the good work. Quitting smoking sucks, but it's totally worth it.


Take the money you save and put it in a jar...see how quickly that fucker fills up!!!



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Offline PMSummer

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #541 on: August 22, 2023, 07:38:28 AM »
Thanks lonestar! I have an app telling me how much I saved and it's definitely nice to see that number grow!

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #542 on: August 22, 2023, 07:59:00 AM »
Nicotine is a bitch. I've never been able to successfully "quit". Though, I don't think it really has anything to do with the nicotine at this point. I just really love the sensation of smoking.

I've bought 3 packs in 2023. One was when I went on vacation for a long weekend in Canada in July, and then two for my bachelor party weekend a few weeks after that. I bummed a pair of smokes at the Dreamsonic show as well. I traded a Heineken for them in the parking lot. I think that's about as good as I'm gonna get. I'm not a daily, a weekly, or even a monthly smoker anymore. I never have cravings anymore, and really the only trigger that still gets me is being drunk and smelling it. I think I'm alright with that.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 12:07:40 PM by Chino »

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #543 on: August 22, 2023, 12:05:23 PM »
I don't smoke, for various reasons, but I definitely get the thrill of it. 

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #544 on: August 22, 2023, 12:18:26 PM »
I'm 5-6 years without a smoke and can honestly say I no longer miss it. Not sure when that finally happened but so happy it finally did. You'll get there, it just takes forever! Good luck! I still have restless, idle hands that if I don't keep busy I just want to eat. So still working on that issue.

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #545 on: September 12, 2023, 04:57:14 PM »
From P&R...don't ask how our discussion of Trump and Biden turned to AA and the 12 step process, but hey, it's DTF and we specialize in fantastic derailments.

Not having gone through it either, those two steps struck me as crucial: 

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Now, I know there's a discussion about what "God" means in that context, that's not important here; it can mean whatever you need it to mean to be successful.  I know from my personal experience with therapy, and watching certain family and friends go through (and sometimes fail to follow through) at therapy, it seems like there's a general difficulty with Homo Sapiens Americanus in doing a meaningful "searching moral inventory" and being honest about the "exact nature of our wrongs".  It's hard to do, it requires a trusting and cooperative environment, and it requires people that will not, under any circumstances, weaponize that information.

It is...and most if not all alcoholics/addicts have some serious shit in their past that they're really hesitant to share. With therapy, it's a trust situation, building that bridge until you feel safe enough to cross it. With the 12 step process, at least with me and others I've worked with, it's a desperation thing. We've finally hit a point in our addiction where the pain is greater than our need to keep all the shit to ourselves, where we finally are willing to do whatever it takes to get some peace, even if it involves digging deep within. We often refer to it as the 'gift of desperation'. I spent a good hour of my inventory telling my sponsor stuff I'd never told anyone before, much of which I've since become very comfortable talking about, but that shit just festers when it sits in us.

A key thing I stress to sponsees is that in the third step we make a decision to turn our lives over to God, but at our current state our whole lives have been alcoholic, and were probably a fucking mess. Now...if we have a business and our wherehouse is a mess, if we don't do an inventory, our business will fail. It's the same with recovery, we need to inventory our lives so we know exactly what we are working with, all of it. The book is very clear with it's directions on how to go about this working through our resentments, fears, harms, and sex inventories. That's the 4th... in the fifth we literally turn our lives over, we share our inventory and ask god and our sponsor and the group on how to manage it, because surprise, in the first step we admitted it was unmanageable. It's a very specific process, and really well designed, that's why hundreds of 12 step programs have arisen in the wake of AA, and probably why the Big Book is usually listed as one of the most impactful works of literature in the 20th century.

As to the god thing, and the book is pretty clear on many occasions, that it's our interpretation of a higher power. In fact, the only part of the 12 steps as they're written in the book that are italicized are in step 5 and 11 where it states "God as we understood him"...Bill made sure that the hoop we had to jump through was inclusive to all.




What does making amends entail? I mean, I can understand what it means, but do you report back at the meetings who you made amends with?
I'd worry that people wouldn't want to make amends back to me, but I suppose you'd have to be ready for that, and I wonder how a rejection from somebody at this step can jeopardize one's progress to that point.

The amends process is tough, and can be emotionally brutal, but it can be life altering as well. I had experiences on both sides. There's no 'you must' in AA first off, everything is a suggestion. My experience, when I worked my amends I kept my sponsor in the loop so he could give me guidance on them. Amends are meant to be a clearing of our side of the street, when I make them, I'm 100% honest about the harms I caused, I ask them if there's anything I missed (since I was drunk and blacked out most of the time), and I ask offer to do whatever it takes to rectify the situation. I've known people who've turned themselves into the courts and done jail time, or who've gone into retail places that they stole from and repaid whatever the owner wished for. It's amazing the lengths some of these people go to for that freedom.

A girl who spoke the other night took another person's legs in a DUI accident, and for three years in the court systems went through the legal process while working the program. While the person she injured never forgave her, when she went up for sentencing the judge gave her time served, saying she'd be of better service in the rooms of AA than she would in prison. I've known her for a good 5 years now, and she is about as outstanding a person as you could meet. That's the beauty of AA in action, and I've seen countless stories like this, including my own.




I'll respond when I get home, but will jump over to the addiction thread where this discussion is more appropriate lol

When you do that, I might post this again, but I personally believe that the first five pages of chapter 5 from the AA big book are some of the most profound pages I’ve ever read.

Honestly folks. Think about what an impact the 12 step program has had on our entire society for around the last 80 years or so. If for no other reason than to just educate yourself on what everyone is talking about, 5 measly pages should not be that big a deal. I’m linking chapter 5 and the opening 5 pages (pgs 58-63) should be sufficient.

https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/2021-11/en_bigbook_chapt5.pdf


Yeah, some good stuff there. In fact there's some great wisdom throughout the first 164pg... and some brutally dated stuff too... there's actually a 5th edition in process that's targeted at updating a lot of the more...distasteful bits that Bill put in. As great as he was, he was still a guy in the 1930s when he wrote it lol.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #546 on: September 13, 2023, 09:57:04 AM »
And to put a fine point on some of the things you were talking about as far as “the system works if you work it” (at one point you made the brilliant comparison of someone claiming chemotherapy doesn’t work when they are not participating in the treatments)

I think it’s because, even outside of all the spiritual aspects of the program, is that it is basically a “how to” of deconstructing ego. And some people just can’t handle that.  One of the very first caveats that is highlighted in “How it Works” is that it will not work for those who are incapable of rigorous honesty with themselves. And I have known many like that. And it’s not always about addiction (though that usually comes into play) but it is usually about ego.
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Online lonestar

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #547 on: September 13, 2023, 10:14:38 AM »
And to put a fine point on some of the things you were talking about as far as “the system works if you work it” (at one point you made the brilliant comparison of someone claiming chemotherapy doesn’t work when they are not participating in the treatments)

I think it’s because, even outside of all the spiritual aspects of the program, is that it is basically a “how to” of deconstructing ego. And some people just can’t handle that.  One of the very first caveats that is highlighted in “How it Works” is that it will not work for those who are incapable of rigorous honesty with themselves. And I have known many like that. And it’s not always about addiction (though that usually comes into play) but it is usually about ego.

And Bill is very specific about that... He makes a huge effort to point out that "selfishness and self centerdness are the root of our problems"

I actually promote that alcohol is a solution to our real problems.. It gives us ease and comfort, it socially lubricates us, it helps us trudge through this life we somehow feel tragically ill-equipped to handle without it. That is the root of our spiritual problem. This creates a mental obsession with it, to where when we try to go without, to go cold turkey, life gets worse, not better, so eventually we settle to have just one (if I had a dollar for everytime I failed that one). At this point the physical kicks in, we have one drink, and the real disease gets Rolling and we are at alcohols mercy. It's like having sex with a gorilla, it isn't done till the gorilla is finished.

The steps are designed to heal and maintain the spiritual side, so that the other two never come into play.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #548 on: September 15, 2023, 08:22:15 PM »
I did something the a few weeks back I have never done in my life. I poured out a full decanter of bourbon. A few days before that I got buzzed for the first time in 2+ years, which set myself up for a bad situation at home. That prior time 2+ years ago could have put me in a bad situation at home, but did not. The last time I was drunk before that was 10+ years ago, and that put me in a real bad situation. Yes... I recognize there is a pattern forming here.  :)

Alcohol has given me both fun and misery over the last two decades, but I do recognize the truth behind what many of you have been posting in this thread (carried over from the Biden thread...).
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Re: The addictions thread
« Reply #549 on: November 20, 2023, 12:58:58 PM »
I obviously can't speak for him not knowing his story, but for me, a good deal of my inability to be in relationships (I've had two in sobriety, both didn't work out, and I currently am not even looking) is a combination of my sense of self worth, in that my levels of inadequacy make me feel i can't offer much to someone else. Also, for me, my anxiety shoots through the roof in a relationship process, especially when the physical aspect is involved. I'm positive a great deal of that is still me working through some severe childhood crap that makes it so hard for me to separate physical and emotional intimacy when it comes to a relationship.

We each have our own stories, and I think him being so open and honest about where he's at in his speaks volumes to how healthy his recovery is. I'd gather a less healthy person would let their selfish impulses take over and basically take the other person as an emotional hostage instead of considering their well being first. Guy sounds like he actually has a pretty solid program running, hopefully he can grow into a person that can offer himself more fully in time.


Laying off dating for the first year or so is always advised, don't want to bring in any unwanted triggers if not necessary.

I totally agree.  She isn't going to wait on him and so it is hard for her right now.  But my motherly advice was not to bolt the door shut.  Nobody knows where they will both be in a year or 2 or 5.  He needs to figure out what he wants out of HIS life.  Whether or not that includes her remains to be seen.  Probably not.  But maybe they can at least be friends one day.

Thanks for your insight.  It is hard to see your child grieving and heartbroken.  But she will be fine.

So a little update.  Yesterday my daughter discovered that this guy is engaged to be married to a woman he's been dating for about 10 years.  The whole "my addiction means I can't handle a committed relationship" was all bullshit.  This guy completely LIED to my daughter about so many things.  FTR, they hadn't spoken since the break up last spring but they continued to follow each other on social media.  Last week she discovered that he blocked her so she got nosey and figured out the reason why.

She sees him for the asshole that he so obviously is.  But she is more hurt now than when they officially ended things because she sees all the lies and manipulations.  She has regret about not trusting her own instincts early on.  And now she's worried that she'll never fully trust anyone again.  So this nice little scab she'd formed over her feelings for this guy just got ripped off and she's hurting and angry.

I honestly am pissed that he would use his recovery in that way.  Like who does that?  Who says, "Oh I'm sober almost a decade now....so how can I parlay that into a way to screw women without having to get serious about them?  It's the perfect excuse."

If it were me?  I'd be contacting the fiance to be clear she knew what he was doing behind her back.  Because if I were the fiance in this situation, I'd hope someone would tell me the truth.  Obviously this guy has no relationship with honesty.
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