Styx appreciation

[pg1067]

DDY voiced their biggest hits.

Crystal Ball - Shaw
Come Sail Away - DeYoung
Fooling Yourself - Shaw
Blue Collar Man - Shaw
Sing for the Day - Shaw
Renegade - Shaw
Babe - DeYoung
Best of Times - DeYoung
Too Much Time on My Hands - Shaw
Mr. Roboto - DeYoung

That's a 6:4 ratio in Shaw's favor (I intentionally didn't include Lady since that was before Shaw joined).

Eh, including Sing for the Day, which didn't crack the top 40 here, and leaving off DDY's Don't Let It End, which was a top 10 hit, skews the numbers.  No, Tommy was not in the band for Lady or Show Me the Way, but those were two more top 10 hits that DDY wrote.  Throw in classic rock mainstays like Light Up, The Grand Illusion and Suite Madame Blue, all of which were written by Dennis, and DDY has the big edge overall.

Fair enough.  I honestly forgot about Don't Let It End (can you blame me?).  The rest are more obscure, and I could find a Tommy song to match every one of them.  Fact is that Styx ain't Styx without either of them.

[kirksnosehair]

Copied from the Triumph thread:

It never occurred to me until just now that Pieces of Eight had exactly zero DDY singles.

I wonder if that had something to do with the paradigm shift on Cornerstone?

But yes...we should take this to the proper Styx thread.

Styx was my second favorite band (meaning the Beatles were initially my favorite band, and then Styx took that place), but I never did much exploration of the band's history beyond what we got on Behind the Music (and, more recently, on the Dan Rather interview with TS and JY).  Is there a particular biography that is considered "seminal"?

Pieces of Eight is probably my favorite Styx album, and Queen of Spades might be my favorite song.  It's probably the heaviest song DDY sang, and it is credited to "Young, DeYoung," but I don't know what to make of how the credits are done.  I would have assumed it was a single, but it wasn't.  I've also read (probably here at DTF) that Renegade was originally a much mellower song and that DDY convinced TS to make it heavier (but DDY got no writing credit on the song).

Not really sure what happened to cause the stylistic shift on Cornerstone.  JY and TS objected big time to First Time, but it's not like either of them brought anything exceptional to the table.  JY is almost completely absent from the album.  Lights and Babe are really the only songs I go to on that album.

I think Cornerstone was the beginning of the end for DDY with Styx.   There is a story out there on the internet that says Styx had a meeting in Chicago in 1980 and told DDY to take a hike because he was "too bossy" but when they failed to find a suitable replacement, they invited him back, but he came back on the condition that he would be given more creative control over the band's music.  Cornerstone was the first album they released after that.  Not one of my favorites from them.  But I LOVED Paradise Theater in 1981.  I broke my cherry to that album. 

[kirksnosehair]

DDY voiced their biggest hits.

Crystal Ball - Shaw
Come Sail Away - DeYoung
Fooling Yourself - Shaw
Blue Collar Man - Shaw
Sing for the Day - Shaw
Renegade - Shaw
Babe - DeYoung
Best of Times - DeYoung
Too Much Time on My Hands - Shaw
Mr. Roboto - DeYoung

That's a 6:4 ratio in Shaw's favor (I intentionally didn't include Lady since that was before Shaw joined).

Eh, including Sing for the Day, which didn't crack the top 40 here, and leaving off DDY's Don't Let It End, which was a top 10 hit, skews the numbers.  No, Tommy was not in the band for Lady or Show Me the Way, but those were two more top 10 hits that DDY wrote.  Throw in classic rock mainstays like Light Up, The Grand Illusion and Suite Madame Blue, all of which were written by Dennis, and DDY has the big edge overall.

Fair enough.  I honestly forgot about Don't Let It End (can you blame me?).  The rest are more obscure, and I could find a Tommy song to match every one of them.  Fact is that Styx ain't Styx without either of them.

hmm, that's weird because I have a Styx album that Dennis DeYoung had nothing to do with so clearly they ARE Styx without DDY.   I know this because the Styx logo is on The Mission - their latest album.


Is Dream Theater no longer Dream Theater without Mike Portnoy?  Of course not.  Neither argument is any good.  Styx is who they say they are.  Bands change personnel all the time.  Is Spock's Beard no longer Spock's Beard without Neal Morse?  How about without Neal Morse AND Nick D'Virgilio?  After all they are BOTH the original voices for Spock's Beard.  They're both gone but we still call them Spock's Beard.  The "Styx is not Styx without DDY and Tommy Shaw" argument is weak sauce.

[pg1067]

I think Cornerstone was the beginning of the end for DDY with Styx.   There is a story out there on the internet that says Styx had a meeting in Chicago in 1980 and told DDY to take a hike because he was "too bossy" but when they failed to find a suitable replacement, they invited him back, but he came back on the condition that he would be given more creative control over the band's music.  Cornerstone was the first album they released after that.  Not one of my favorites from them.  But I LOVED Paradise Theater in 1981.  I broke my cherry to that album.

Someone had mentioned the Behind the Music episode, and I watched that (again) yesterday.  This incident is discussed, and Dennis said something along the line of the following:  "Do I think I know what's best for Styx?  Ninety-nine percent of the time, yeah, I do."

hmm, that's weird because I have a Styx album that Dennis DeYoung had nothing to do with so clearly they ARE Styx without DDY.   I know this because the Styx logo is on The Mission - their latest album.


Is Dream Theater no longer Dream Theater without Mike Portnoy?  Of course not.  Neither argument is any good.  Styx is who they say they are.  Bands change personnel all the time.  Is Spock's Beard no longer Spock's Beard without Neal Morse?  How about without Neal Morse AND Nick D'Virgilio?  After all they are BOTH the original voices for Spock's Beard.  They're both gone but we still call them Spock's Beard.  The "Styx is not Styx without DDY and Tommy Shaw" argument is weak sauce.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...of course Styx exists (and I don't know thing 1 about Spock's Beard), but I think you know the point I was making.  I don't know that I gave The Mission a fair try, but I got about three songs in and got bored and didn't go back.

[King Postwhore]

PG, try it again. I'd love to read what you think of The Mission in full.

[KevShmev]

The Mission doesn't start super strong, with the first full song being an average Gowan one and then JY's song (track 4) being the only dud, but Locomotive to the end is all money.

[King Postwhore]

Kev is 100% correct.

[TAC]

Said no one ever.

[KevShmev]

Tim is 100% correct.

Said no one ever.

[TAC]

Gee that's original.

[King Postwhore]

Power Windows is 100% awesome.

Yup

[TAC]

You guys have too much time on your hands.

[chknptpie]

You guys have too much time *clap*clap* on your hands.

FTFY

[pg1067]

Power Windows is 50+% crap.

Yup

Now we've got it.

[King Postwhore]

 

Hey, seriously though, try The Mission again and give us your review.

[pg1067]

Will do.

[KevShmev]

Even the first one without Dennis, Cyclorama, had some great stuff.  Okay, it's not that consistent, but I would say half of it is at least good, and One with Everything is easily one of the best songs the band has ever done.  I love These are the Times as well (one of the best Styx songs where JY sings lead).

[pg1067]

Even the first one without Dennis, Cyclorama, had some great stuff.  Okay, it's not that consistent, but I would say half of it is at least good, and One with Everything is easily one of the best songs the band has ever done.  I love These are the Times as well (one of the best Styx songs where JY sings lead).

One with Everything is absolute greatness, and I only learned of its existence a couple years ago.  Cyclorama hasn't been available on Amazon or on Spotify, but it seems it's now on both (albeit $25 for the CD?!), so I can check that out in more detail.

[KevShmev]

For as much as I pile on Gowan, largely for his cartoonish stage behavior and his voice being a poor man's DDY, his keyboard solo in One with Everything is pretty awesome.

[King Postwhore]

It feels like a victory  lol. Kev ever hear Alex Lifeson on Gowan's solo album?

[KevShmev]

Nope.  Hard pass on hearing any Gown solo material.

[King Postwhore]

But, but, but, Alex Lifeson!  Lol. It is a good album. Seriously. 

[KevShmev]

Enjoy it, then! 

[kirksnosehair]

*shrug* Gowan was -after seeing him with Styx 6 times now- probably the perfect replacement for DDY because their voices have very similar characteristics.  I was trying to think of something I care about less than his "stage antics" (a.k.a. having fun during performances) but I'll have to get back to you on that.  I've thoroughly enjoyed those Styx concerts which were just as good as when I saw them with DDY in 1979 and 1981 in Boston and Providence respectively.  Sure, I'd rather have the original group all together but they're still making new music that's pretty great and their concerts are still awesome.


I'll tell you what's really interesting is Styx fired DDY then went out and hired a DDY clone.  DDY got fired from Styx and when he put a band together he found a Tommy Shaw clone to tour with! 

Why can't they just get along and tour together?

[King Postwhore]

Who played bass for a few tours too before he left!

[The Great Zo]

Even the first one without Dennis, Cyclorama, had some great stuff.  Okay, it's not that consistent, but I would say half of it is at least good, and One with Everything is easily one of the best songs the band has ever done.  I love These are the Times as well (one of the best Styx songs where JY sings lead).

Cyclorama has to be one of the most inconsistent albums I've ever heard in my life. There are some truly terrible songs on there, plus a handful of good ballads and pop-rock tracks, and then -- as you mention -- One With Everything, which is simply incredible in a Styx-by-way-of-Spock's-Beard kind of manner. Lucky enough to see it performed in concert once. Amazing song.

I really love The Mission. Not sure it's a masterpiece, but it's far better than I thought a Styx album getting released in 2017 had any right to be. It's a really compact album, and I actually kind of think it's a little too short. There are a few themes, both lyrical and musical, that I wouldn't have mind seeing developed a little further. But the run from Locomotive to The Outpost is pretty much flawless. The story is quite good, too, especially once you realize that their titular "mission to Mars" is actually a lot more than just that...

[KevShmev]

Cyclorama has to be one of the most inconsistent albums I've ever heard in my life. There are some truly terrible songs on there, plus a handful of good ballads and pop-rock tracks, and then -- as you mention -- One With Everything, which is simply incredible in a Styx-by-way-of-Spock's-Beard kind of manner. Lucky enough to see it performed in concert once. Amazing song.

Even though it sounds like it would have worked better on a Damn Yankees record, Together is a great song as well.  It really is too bad that Tommy has spent most of the past 20 years doing an endless loop of greatest hits tours with Styx instead of doing a bit of new work with Jack Blades. Those two worked so well together, and their voices meshed amazingly.

[KevShmev]

Thanks to this thread, I ended up listening to a bunch of Styx the last few days, and I will say this, even though it was kind of a mess, there is good stuff on Brave New World.  On the flip side, what are the odds that the moment Tommy and JY heard Dennis' High Crimes and Misdemeanors is the exact time when they thought, "Okay, this guy needs to go." 

[jammindude]

Ya...I can’t believe that didn’t get vetoed. That almost feels like DDY trolling the band.

That being said, I do find it getting stuck in my head from time to time. It’s a fun song, but it’s not a Styx song.

[KevShmev]

It does sort of feel like he was trolling the band, but it's probably more likely that his tank was running low on good ideas.  He had five contributions to that album, and by my estimation, four of them pretty much blow, with Goodbye Roseland being the exception, and even that wouldn't be a top 3 song from that record for me.

[jammindude]

HIP HOP

HIP....HOP HYPOCRISY...HIP HOP


Ya. Thanks for getting THAT stuck in my head again. 

[kirksnosehair]

Even the first one without Dennis, Cyclorama, had some great stuff.  Okay, it's not that consistent, but I would say half of it is at least good, and One with Everything is easily one of the best songs the band has ever done.  I love These are the Times as well (one of the best Styx songs where JY sings lead).

Cyclorama has to be one of the most inconsistent albums I've ever heard in my life. There are some truly terrible songs on there, plus a handful of good ballads and pop-rock tracks, and then -- as you mention -- One With Everything, which is simply incredible in a Styx-by-way-of-Spock's-Beard kind of manner. Lucky enough to see it performed in concert once. Amazing song.

I really love The Mission. Not sure it's a masterpiece, but it's far better than I thought a Styx album getting released in 2017 had any right to be. It's a really compact album, and I actually kind of think it's a little too short. There are a few themes, both lyrical and musical, that I wouldn't have mind seeing developed a little further. But the run from Locomotive to The Outpost is pretty much flawless. The story is quite good, too, especially once you realize that their titular "mission to Mars" is actually a lot more than just that...

Yeah, that was intentional.  They went into the studio with the idea to make a "classic" Styx album using 100% analog equipment including recording to tape instead of digital and they wanted to keep the album to a length that would fit on an LP

[jingle.boy]

Nope.  Hard pass on hearing any Gown solo material.

I dunno if he did anything since the 80s (I'm sure he did... but I never listened to it), but Strange Animal and Great Dirty World are two excellent albums.  Of course, I could just be in that camp because I listened to them a lot as they were released.  Going back to them now, I seriously doubt they'd be my cup of tea.

For the DDY lovers, anyone else check out his release from last year - 26 East, Vol 1?  Very enjoyable stuff.

[kirksnosehair]

Nope.  Hard pass on hearing any Gown solo material.

I dunno if he did anything since the 80s (I'm sure he did... but I never listened to it), but Strange Animal and Great Dirty World are two excellent albums.  Of course, I could just be in that camp because I listened to them a lot as they were released.  Going back to them now, I seriously doubt they'd be my cup of tea.

For the DDY lovers, anyone else check out his release from last year - 26 East, Vol 1?  Very enjoyable stuff.

Yes!  Pretty good album, especially the asshole song!  ha ha 

[KevShmev]

Not much else stuck with me, but I thought East of Midnight was a nice little song.  Given that it sounds like something that would have sounded right at home on Cornerstone or Paradise Theater, it is hard to not wonder how much better those harmonies in the chorus would sound with Tommy and JY singing along with him.