Styx appreciation

[KevShmev]

Yep, he needs to get over it and move on. I can understand his frustration, as he was basically forced out of the band he spent nearly 30 years directing, but his actions for the last 20 of those years are the reason why.  You reap what you sow.  DDY still has one of the best voices ever in rock, IMO, but his current situation is of his own making.

[King Postwhore]

I'll read it later but like you said Kev, he made his own bed.

[Architeuthis]

Just watched the Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight concert on blu-ray, and Wow, what a show. Great drum sound too, Todd Sucherman is as good as any drummer out there.. Even if your just a casual Styx fan,  I would highly recommend this. I would put this show up there with all the Rush and Dream Theater shows I own..
I really hope Styx does a tour featuring their new album "The Mission"..

[King Postwhore]

I am so win you on that.  The album needs to played in full live.

[KevShmev]

But with DeYoung, not Gowan, amirite?

[King Postwhore]

 


Oh you. 

NO!

[Architeuthis]

But with DeYoung, not Gowan, amirite?

noyurnot.. It will never happen,  and I'm ok with that..  Gowan has stepped up to the plate, and Shaw shines!  Shaw-shank redemption.. 

[KevShmev]

Tommy Shaw is always great.  His voice has held up well, and he can write a song.

James Young, on the other hand, is an arrogant dick.  Go look at the writing credits during Styx's peak years. He has, what, 4-5 good songs on those six albums (none of which are the best from their respective albums).  He should be kissing Dennis DeYoung's ass for the career he has, yet he has often spoken of him in completely dismissive terms in the last 18 years.  Hell, even the new album has almost no writing credits for him, and his lone lead vocal contribution is easily the worst song on the album.  He's on the Mount Rushmore of musicians who have ridden coattails.

[King Postwhore]

I agree.  That being said, DD made his own musical grave. His arrogance is the reason he is not with Styx.   

There is no way around it.   

[jammindude]

I agree.  That being said, DD made his own musical grave. His arrogance is the reason he is not with Styx.   

There is no way around it.

[Architeuthis]

James Young has never come across to me as arrogant. I like him live, he adds a lot of charm and humor to the band plus he's a great guitar player.
 As was discussed earlier in this thread, James Young took lead vocals on one of my fav Styx songs called "These are The Times".. Of course the Chorus is the most powerful part when everyone sings, but JY's guitar parts are always awesome!

[Cool Chris]

I've always wondered what JY contributes to the band musically. I am not like a lot of people here who hear an Iron Maiden song and when the solo comes on, think "Ah, that's Adrian, I can tell right away." I don't like his voice, but his vocals are not prominent enough for it to be a turn-off for me.

When I have heard him talk about DD, it struck me as pretty matter-of-fact. Maybe he could sound more appreciative of helping make the band as big as it is, but he never sounds unduly arrogant or prickish.

[KevShmev]

James Young has never come across to me as arrogant. I like him live, he adds a lot of charm and humor to the band plus he's a great guitar player.
 As was discussed earlier in this thread, James Young took lead vocals on one of my fav Styx songs called "These are The Times".. Of course the Chorus is the most powerful part when everyone sings, but JY's guitar parts are always awesome!

Eh, he is a solid player, but that is about it.  I do like These Are the Times a lot, as well as Miss America and Great White Hope, but my point was that he should be a little more gracious towards DeYoung, considering the man wrote the bulk of the hits that made them a household name (with Shaw writing the others, and Young writing...none of them).  Calling him an arrogant dick might have been a bit harsh, but he just seems awfully ungrateful.

When I have heard him talk about DD, it struck me as pretty matter-of-fact. Maybe he could sound more appreciative of helping make the band as big as it is, but he never sounds unduly arrogant or prickish.

He has, on more than a few occasions, referred to DeYoung as "our old keyboard player."  If that isn't dismissive, I don't know what is.

[King Postwhore]

There is obviously reasons they talk about him in this manor. I would say it's deserving Kev.

[KevShmev]

Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

And actually, I will say that Midnight Ride is one JY song that is always good to crank up. 

[King Postwhore]

But it has everything to do with it.  If he didn't act like he did, they woyld be still together. So it has everything to do with it.

[KevShmev]

Eh, I find their position somewhat hypocritical. Tommy Shaw loved bagging on DeYoung for Babe, but Shaw and Young were the ones who came to the studio and wanted it on a Styx album when they heard the demo DeYoung had done of it with just the Panozzo brothers.  I am sure they loved the money that songs like Babe, Mr. Roboto and The Best of Times brought them, thanks to the bigger tours and wider exposure, but hey, let's bite the hand they fed us!  Like I have said before, I have no doubt that DeYoung is a major pain in the ass, and I totally get why they do not want to work with anymore, but their attitude and public comments towards him have been off-putting, especially since DeYoung has mostly taken the high road since getting kicked out of his own band.

[King Postwhore]

Best of times is waaaaaaay different than Babe and Mr. ROBOTO.


Babe was nothing like they ever did and Mr Roboto was to most just too much when most wanted a straightforward rick album. I liked it but that's what the other band members felt.   DD was taking full charge and If wasn't a band effort. That's why they bitched.

Kev,  you can't be blind to one band member who becones overbearing in all aspects.  When they become more important than the band. Evrn if they are a key cog.

[jammindude]

Ya.  My understanding is that DD pretty much resorted to schoolyard blackmail just to get Kilroy done.  No one else wanted to do the Kilroy album....or the theatrical tour that followed.   But DD basically told them "It's my ball, and if we can't play by my rules, I'm going to go straight home!"

[King Postwhore]

Hey, DD is an incredible singer and songwriter but other band members are just as important and sometimes they have to move on.

[KevShmev]

Best of times is waaaaaaay different than Babe and Mr. ROBOTO.

They clearly lump them all into the same category, since the current incarnation never plays any of them (has The Best of Times been played by the band since they kicked DeYoung out?). 

Hey, DD is an incredible singer and songwriter but other band members are just as important and sometimes they have to move on.

Which is what I repeatedly agreed with and even said myself.

[jammindude]

Best of times is waaaaaaay different than Babe and Mr. ROBOTO.

They clearly lump them all into the same category, since the current incarnation never plays any of them (has The Best of Times been played by the band since they kicked DeYoung out?). 

I might be misremembering, but I saw them on the BNW tour (their first w/o DD) and I could have sworn they played it.

EDIT - looking at a few sets from that tour, Lady was a staple, and TBOT was played originally but later dropped.

The one I think you're absolutely correct on, is Mr. Roboto.   Kilroy is the one album both Tommy and James both have a very bitter taste in their mouth about.   

Kilroy is as much a Styx album as The Final Cut was a Pink Floyd album. 

[Grappler]

The one I think you're absolutely correct on, is Mr. Roboto.   Kilroy is the one album both Tommy and James both have a very bitter taste in their mouth about.   

Styx hasn't ever played Mr. Roboto in full since the split, but they did tease 10 seconds of it during the middle of Edge of a Century on the BNW/Arch Allies tours. 

I'd love to see one last tour with the classic lineup.  I used to be full-on in the Styx camp after they replaced Dennis (I had seen the 1996 reunion tour and the 1997 Grand Illusion anniversary tour).  I loved how they became a faster-paced, full on rock band and dropped the typical DDY ballads.  I saw them on the BNW tour with REO Speedwagon and gain on the Cyclorama tour.

Then I saw Dennis live in 2010 and 2011.  I was completely blown away - he sounds incredible for his age, and hearing him sing his songs - Rockin the Paradise, Lorilei, Suite Madame Blue, and his staples of Lady and Come Sail Away, it reminded me how much I love him and those songs.  Since then I can't stand to listen to Gowan.  I have no need to see Styx again unless it's another reunion- I've seen them twice with the reunion lineup, twice without Dennis, and I've seen Dennis twice solo. 

[jammindude]

Just wanted to add to my Kilroy/Final Cut comparison by saying that I actually do enjoy both of those albums.  But they are somewhat like the respective lead singers solo albums masquerading as band albums.

[KevShmev]

I might be misremembering, but I saw them on the BNW tour (their first w/o DD) and I could have sworn they played it.

EDIT - looking at a few sets from that tour, Lady was a staple, and TBOT was played originally but later dropped.

The one I think you're absolutely correct on, is Mr. Roboto.   Kilroy is the one album both Tommy and James both have a very bitter taste in their mouth about.   

I get they want to avoid playing Mr. Roboto (and Babe).  The best of Times seems like a mistake to not play. It seems like they tried to avoid DDY songs at first, even not playing Come Sail Away on a few tours, but then seemingly figured out that Styx fans want those songs, even if DeYoung is not there.

Kilroy is as much a Styx album as The Final Cut was a Pink Floyd album.

 

Shaw and Young wrote 5 of the 9 songs.

 
I'd love to see one last tour with the classic lineup.  I used to be full-on in the Styx camp after they replaced Dennis (I had seen the 1996 reunion tour and the 1997 Grand Illusion anniversary tour).  I loved how they became a faster-paced, full on rock band and dropped the typical DDY ballads.  I saw them on the BNW tour with REO Speedwagon and gain on the Cyclorama tour.

Then I saw Dennis live in 2010 and 2011.  I was completely blown away - he sounds incredible for his age, and hearing him sing his songs - Rockin the Paradise, Lorilei, Suite Madame Blue, and his staples of Lady and Come Sail Away, it reminded me how much I love him and those songs.  Since then I can't stand to listen to Gowan.  I have no need to see Styx again unless it's another reunion- I've seen them twice with the reunion lineup, twice without Dennis, and I've seen Dennis twice solo.

I've seen Styx four times - 1990, 1996, 1997 and 2011 - and the one in 2011 with the current lineup was far the least best of the four.

DeYoung's voice has held up extremely well.  There is simply no comparison between him and Gowan.

I'd still pay to see the current lineup, if they were gonna play most or all of the new album, but I would definitely go in knowing that part of the concert will seem empty (seeing Come Sail Away performed without DeYoung is just total fail).

[jammindude]

I might be misremembering, but I saw them on the BNW tour (their first w/o DD) and I could have sworn they played it.

EDIT - looking at a few sets from that tour, Lady was a staple, and TBOT was played originally but later dropped.

The one I think you're absolutely correct on, is Mr. Roboto.   Kilroy is the one album both Tommy and James both have a very bitter taste in their mouth about.   

I get they want to avoid playing Mr. Roboto (and Babe).  The best of Times seems like a mistake to not play. It seems like they tried to avoid DDY songs at first, even not playing Come Sail Away on a few tours, but then seemingly figured out that Styx fans want those songs, even if DeYoung is not there.

Kilroy is as much a Styx album as The Final Cut was a Pink Floyd album.

 

Shaw and Young wrote 5 of the 9 songs.

This is *technically* correct....but remember that they were being forced to write around DDY's concept.  .....if their heart was truly in those songs, I would imagine they would have resurrected at least one of the songs......or *at the very least* spoken of the album has having at least some saving graces.   

Neither one of these things is true.   In spite of contributing music to the album, they were forced into the confines and concept of DDY's "vision" with a metaphorical "gun to their head".    I actually LIKE the album, but I can tell that Tommy and James feel very bitter about being forced into the confines of Dennis story.....thus, the snubbing of the entire album.   I think Tommy and James would both agree with me in saying that Kilroy was DDY's "baby" completely.

[TheAtliator]

Just to clear up what DDY songs Styx has played since the split (because I know too much about the subject)....

Styx played Babe once in 1999 for some reason, I think the venue requested it and they booked the show before Dennis was gone or something like that. They also played an abridged Best of Times in their acoustic set throughout 1999, and a small portion of Mr Roboto in the middle of Edge of the Century '99-2000, and the first lines of Mr Roboto in their Borrowed Time Medley (2001 and 2010) and their 18-song medley (2003-08).

They have played Lady, Grand Illusion, Come Sail Away at every single show '99-current (there could be some exception I don't know of) and Lorelei almost every show 99-2015 and sometimes now, Rockin the Paradise at most '99-2001 and every show since late 2011, and always Light Up 2013-current. They've also done: Suite Madame Blue, Castle Walls, I'm Okay, The Message/Lords of the Ring, Queen of Spades, Pieces of Eight, Borrowed Time (most of it) fairly regularly on certain tours.

[KevShmev]

From what I remember, Come Sail Away was definitely not played on several tours shortly after DeYoung's departure (or at least was featured sporadically).

That is cool to see they have dug deep to play stuff like A Man in the Wilderness, Castle Walls, I'm OK, Queen of Spades, etc. They have so many great deep cuts from their classic era that trotting out just the hits would get boring pretty quickly.  Busting out some of the deep tracks from Equinox is now in order.

[King Postwhore]

Heres the setlist i saw in 2000 with REO & Survivor.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/styx/2000/tsongas-arena-lowell-ma-7bdd2a60.html

[jammindude]

As long as we're dabbling in pre-Tommy stuff....about about Best Thing? 

[KevShmev]

I love Best Thing. One of my favorites from the Wooden Nickel era. 

[gazinwales]

Stumbled across this (official) complete show in B&W from 1978.
Classic stuff indeed.
https://youtu.be/W12irfo3w24

[jammindude]

So they didn't even play Castle Walls on the Grand Illusion tour?   Was the recent performance of the complete album the first time?

[KevShmev]

It's pretty hard to narrow down Styx favorites, since so many from that time period are so good, but Castle Walls would have to be in my top 5.   Maybe even top 3. Maybe even higher... I love it that much.

[TheAtliator]

So they didn't even play Castle Walls on the Grand Illusion tour?   Was the recent performance of the complete album the first time?

For Styx, yes I believe 2010 was the first, outside of playing part of it in their big medley. However DDY beat them to that one and played it on his solo tours starting in the early 2000's.

The 2010 GI/PO8 tour also live-debuted Superstars and The Message/ Lords of the Ring.

Also, this is pretty awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKg14V9tbQ