Author Topic: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors  (Read 10305 times)

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Offline Evai

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #105 on: April 04, 2017, 03:38:11 PM »
dt needs a simple rock drummer
Jordan took Moore's boring, pedestrian parts and elevated them considerably to take them from barely palatable to stellar.

Offline cramx3

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2017, 03:42:07 PM »
That didn't work so well for Avenged Sevenfold after MP

I personally had no issues with it, but I think a lot of other people did.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2017, 04:45:02 PM »
1. People think it actually sounds less musical and more technical...

The dichotomy you are trying to draw doesn't make sense.  "Musical" and "technical" are not opposite ends of some spectrum.  They don't even correlate.

I think this is what MM was saying about people's lack of respect to diffferent musicalities. Just because it doesn't sound musical to you doesn't mean it's not musical to others.

From a Drumtalk interview:

"I think the worst thing that you can do as a musician is to fall for the lie of prejudice through ignorance and not acknowledge what it takes to play other styles or what work it takes just to begin to perceive music. Meaning, how can you say something is musical or not when you can't process it first, when you don't even know what it is? You don't really have a right to judge it — [whether] it's musical or not. You can't make music with it, 'cause you don't know what it is.

"You know, this guy that plays brushes… Brushes can be the most musical thing ever in a proper setting. Playing the bass drums and cymbals as loud as can humanly and as fast can be can be the most musical thing in the world in a proper setting.

"There's a prejudice towards… Let's say a jazz musician… The worst thing a jazz musician can do is to say that 'speed/death metal has no feeling, man — no groove.' Well, that person has probably never stood in front of a P.A system with somebody who worked their butt off to get their feet to move at 15 beats a second or something and those bass drums are flying through a P.A. system. Don't tell me that that doesn't have any feeling, because it practically makes me go to the bathroom; that's how much feeling that has. And then when you see the big picture of all that there is to do, you have respect for other people, you have respect for the work that they've done. And you might not like the music, you might not spend time with the music, but at least you have a respect for it, and it changes you, it changes how you view your own music."

"...I would have students that wanted to work on their feet, and in order to do that, you have to practice all the time and put hours in and sweat and sacrifice and suffer. And inevitably, a handful of those students came to me saying that a jazz student took the time — they actually took time out of their life — to knock on their door, to open the door and to say to that kid, Why are you doing that all day, man? It's so unmusical, man.'

"That's what a musican shouldn't do — put himself into that narrow-vision world where they ultimately get negative toward things that they don't know. Whereas that jazz kid could have learned something from that student practicing the same thing twenty hours a week; he could have learned how to repeat and practice. So maybe when he goes to an audition and he's having a bad day, he can call upon himself and at least be this good [raises hand]. You practice 'till you're that good [raises hand higher] but at least when it counts, you can be that good [lowers hand]. So the metal guy can learn something from the jazz guy, and the jazz guy can learn something from the Latin guy, and the Latin guy can learn something from the steel-drum player.

"So the worst thing you can do is choose to be ignorant, because you don't wanna look at what's available and what's out there. You don't have to like it, you don't have to practice it, you don't have to eat it, sleep it and drink it, but it's good to just know about it, so that you ultimately end up being at peace with who you are. You're at peace with the path that you've chosen, and you let other people be at peace with the path that they've chosen, and you respect it."

.
And if so - what was the FOURTH bass drum for ? His kit looks a lot better with the two bass drums...

The 4th bass drum is an electronic drum, an e-pro, that has all the effects (cowbell, etc) that MM triggers. I think it's a design choice to make it look like a bass drum because the kit would look unbalanced if he only had three bass drums.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 05:10:22 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline rumborak

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2017, 08:51:20 PM »
Why would it look unbalanced with three? One center, one left, one right.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2017, 09:28:40 PM »
Sorry, I was confused.  :lol He indeed has four acoustic bass drums. During the ADTOE tour he used a big, two medium and one small acoustic bass drum. The medium bass drums were used for double bass playing, the big and small were used for dynamic playing.

He simplified it during the AFTR tour. Two medium and two small. His main bass drums are the mediums and he uses the smalls when he want uneven aounding bass drum hits. There are two sets, one when he is leading with his right, the other whenleading with his left.

The ePros are another set of pedala, and he had some other ePros up top (the bell effects during Enigma Machine).

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #110 on: April 05, 2017, 03:45:20 AM »
I think he uses pads now for the extra bass drums .

It looks a lot better imo and less silly.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #111 on: April 05, 2017, 04:00:55 AM »
At least when he had the extra bass drums, he was actually using them. Unlike Alex Van Halen who really just had them for display.  :lol

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #112 on: April 05, 2017, 04:09:21 AM »
I'm fine with however a drummer wants to set up their kit. 1 bass drum, 4 bass drum, whatever. All I care about is the end product, which is not at all relative to how big their kit is.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #113 on: April 05, 2017, 04:17:19 AM »
But you get all kinds of wound up if the fictional Enterprise is "too big" in a fictional film :neverusethis:


Admit it - you secretly love the Uss Vengeance  :biggrin: :biggrin:



ANYWAY - he can set his kit up however he likes - it's ok to think it looks silly though.

Offline rumborak

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #114 on: April 05, 2017, 08:43:47 AM »
I'm fine with however a drummer wants to set up their kit. 1 bass drum, 4 bass drum, whatever. All I care about is the end product, which is not at all relative to how big their kit is.

Well... I do think there's a correlation though. I think when drummers have big  kits, when they want to have a change in sound, they will more likely move to a different part of the kit, whereas on a small kit the drummer will try use the existing kit in a slightly different way, I.e. work the instrument instead of switching to a different one.
I am more a fan of the latter approach, but I know that in metal, the former is the preferred approach.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #115 on: April 05, 2017, 08:49:14 AM »
I can't really say I favor one or the other.  They can each produce cool results, so whatever. 
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Offline rumborak

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2017, 08:53:00 AM »
I didn't use to have a preference, but I remember when Snakes & Arrows came out and I was blown away how much sound difference Neil Peart achieved within the same drum. Peart is far from a small kit guy for sure, but he's IMHO one of the few guys who knows when to scale back and let the drum do the talking.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline bosk1

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #117 on: April 05, 2017, 09:04:44 AM »
Yeah, I can see that.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #118 on: April 05, 2017, 09:42:23 AM »
Mangini can play with a small kit (like he did with Tribe of Judah). He just really sees drums not just as rhythmic instruments but also as tonal instruments. I thinnk it's because of his background. From his website:

1977-1981 ALL East U.S.A. Percussionist (1st Chair,) Massachusetts All State Orchestra Percussionist (1st Chair,) Massachusetts Eastern District Orchestra Percussionist (1st Chair.) Waltham, MA Senior High School John Phillip Sousa  Award for Concert Band, Waltham, MA Junior High School Band Director’s Award.

He honed his skills playng percussion for orchestras. And in orchestras, percussions are used tonally.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: All this time, still don't get the Mangini detractors
« Reply #119 on: April 05, 2017, 10:05:55 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:19:57 AM by Kotowboy »