Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[goo-goo]

The one time I met him - and Neal was present, for what that's worth - he looked tired, but was extremely "present", took time with every fan without it being a "rock star moment", and was engaging.   He was nothing like the raving egomaniac who "needs counseling".   Then again, it wasn't the forum for that.  Who knows?  Can you really know ANYONE without seeing them in all facets of their life?


As for doing loadouts...  I have seen Brett Eldredge four times now (rising country star; bigger act than either AMob or Neal Morse; as a headliner, would probably play the same venues as Dream Theater, maybe a little bigger) and every time, his band came out and set up their own rigs, checked their own levels, etc.  Really kind of refreshing if you ask me.

I've met MP about 4 times after a gig ... no VIP. He has always been very approachable and no rock star attitude. I think the last time I met him was during the Dallas AMOB show. It was sad to see play MP at that kind of venue (Dallas Trees), which is great for 500 - 700 people, but I had been used to MP play for larger crowds. Anyways, the band gave it all and MP, Russell, and Orlando came out from the bus after the show. Everyone was pleasant. MP was the first out of the bus and chatted for about 15 mins.

As far as loudouts, I also saw the same thing with Devin Townsend's band. I think everyone was loading and loading out, except for Devin. Speaking of Devin, you guys should check out his biography (it's also available in Kindle version). He wrote a chapter on the business side of music and goes in great detail on how he does it financially with his band and he touches on this as well.

[DT2003]

Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.

Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).

Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?

Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.

I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage.  Constant Motion is a great metal song.  AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever.  So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.

This is exactly how I feel.  AROP is one of my least favorite DT songs although I do still like it and I love Constant Motion. Although this album seems like it's going to be a lot different than I had originally expected, I have no doubt I will still love it.

[bill1971]

Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.

Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).

Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?

Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.

I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage.  Constant Motion is a great metal song.  AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever.  So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.

This is exactly how I feel.  AROP is one of my least favorite DT songs although I do still like it and I love Constant Motion. Although this album seems like it's going to be a lot different than I had originally expected, I have no doubt I will still love it.

I like Constant Motion as well.  I even like Mike's vocals on it, the back and forth works for that song. A Rite of Passage not so much until the instrumental part.. The riff is pretty bad.

[Lethean]

Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.

Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).

Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?

Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.

I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage.  Constant Motion is a great metal song.  AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever.  So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.

This is exactly how I feel.  AROP is one of my least favorite DT songs although I do still like it and I love Constant Motion. Although this album seems like it's going to be a lot different than I had originally expected, I have no doubt I will still love it.

I like Constant Motion as well.  I even like Mike's vocals on it, the back and forth works for that song. A Rite of Passage not so much until the instrumental part.. The riff is pretty bad.

It's the opposite for me. I like A Right of Passage just fine, but Constant Motion is just OK, and I don't care for Mike's vocals. 

[The Walrus]

I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.

AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.

[DT2003]

The one time I met him - and Neal was present, for what that's worth - he looked tired, but was extremely "present", took time with every fan without it being a "rock star moment", and was engaging.   He was nothing like the raving egomaniac who "needs counseling".   Then again, it wasn't the forum for that.  Who knows?  Can you really know ANYONE without seeing them in all facets of their life?


As for doing loadouts...  I have seen Brett Eldredge four times now (rising country star; bigger act than either AMob or Neal Morse; as a headliner, would probably play the same venues as Dream Theater, maybe a little bigger) and every time, his band came out and set up their own rigs, checked their own levels, etc.  Really kind of refreshing if you ask me.

I've met MP about 4 times after a gig ... no VIP. He has always been very approachable and no rock star attitude. I think the last time I met him was during the Dallas AMOB show. It was sad to see play MP at that kind of venue (Dallas Trees), which is great for 500 - 700 people, but I had been used to MP play for larger crowds. Anyways, the band gave it all and MP, Russell, and Orlando came out from the bus after the show. Everyone was pleasant. MP was the first out of the bus and chatted for about 15 mins.

I met Mike once in a Sam Ash music store back in '98 or '99. Mike was shopping with his wife, but he still took the time to chat for a bit with me. I remember his wife called him over to look at something and rather than blow me off he said something like "hey come over here with me" to me which I thought was so cool. Then when I was checking out he was in front of me and we chatted again and he was joking because I was buying a pair of his drum sticks that he thinks he gets like 12 cents every time someone buys one. He was a very cool and down to earth guy and it always left a great impression on me.

[bosk1]

I met Mike once in a Sam Ash music store back in '98 or '99. Mike was shopping with his wife, but he still took the time to chat for a bit with me. I remember his wife called him over to look at something and rather than blow me off he said something like "hey come over here with me" to me which I thought was so cool. Then when I was checking out he was in front of me and we chatted again and he was joking because I was buying a pair of his drum sticks that he thinks he gets like 12 cents every time someone buys one. He was a very cool and down to earth guy and it always left a great impression on me.

That's cool.  He should have said, "Hey, why don't you just give me 12 cents and buy these cheapter sticks over here?"    Kidding.

[Lethean]

I guess I should say real quick - I was posting in this thread as Vakaren but Bosk was nice enough to change it to my mp.com forum name.

Anyway, I have met Mike several times and he's always been very nice. He seems totally different from his online persona.

Of course an in person meeting is going to be different than a forum discussion. I'm not going to go up to him in person and say anything critical, whereas on a forum I'll talk both about what I like and don't like. I suppose if I tried he wouldn't be quite so friendly. Then again, I did once tell James that I'd been hoping for a little variety in the set list, and I was nice and respectful about, and he was also very nice in return.

[ProfessorPeart]

I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.

With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.

Just spit-balling here.

[Lethean]

I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.

With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.

Just spit-balling here.

I don't know what I was expecting, to be honest.  I guess at least a little FII, and I could swear MP said something about them picking up where they left off from that.  I don't remember where though.  I like SC and Black Clouds, but there's a lot of room there for them to put out an album in that vein that I could like, dislike, or feel kinda meh about.

[bill1971]

I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.

With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.

Just spit-balling here.

That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.

[The Walrus]

Well, when I hear "kings of prog" and "taking over the world" the first thing that pops into my head isn't Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds. I think more along the lines of SFAM, Six Degrees, I&W, that kind of MP-era prog metal. I do prefer the ADTOE direction. I suppose it's obvious by now though that that isn't where MP was heading, in fact, outside of the Neal Morse Band, he hasn't really done much 'prog' stuff since leaving DT. (I don't consider Flying Colors prog and Transatlantic is a very occasional project)

[Lethean]

Well that's the thing.  Everyone hypes their new album at least a little bit, but it's one thing to say "this is our best album" and another to say that you're the kings of prog metal and some of the other stuff they've been saying.  An album like that shouldn't even have a track like Coming Home on it.  If Signs of the Time was the worst thing on the album and everything else was mind-blowing, OK.  But as it stands now, even if everything else really is mind blowing, Coming Home is going to feel out of place and bring the album down a bit. 

This could be a great album with a weak track or two, but even that's going to feel like a disappointment compared to the bar they have been trying to set.  If you say what they've been saying, then you better come out with something that truly blows people away. Like Haken, or Fates Warning's last album, etc. Not that it should sound like either of those things, but it should have that kind of impact. Not make people feel like it's a decent metal album with great playing  but nothing really special.

[Hourglass Prison]

I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.

AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.

Ah, see now I like Wither a lot actually. AROP I'm kinda meh on; I don't hate it, there's some cool stuff in there, but I've always really enjoyed Wither.

And I agree on the Constant Motion drums. I never paid much attention to them until I met a DT fan in college who played the drums. We jammed one day, and I suggested we learn that one, thinking it might not be *too* difficult. He was like, "Uh...that instrumental section is actually kinda crazy for me."

Also, no!!! What happened to Pikachu?

[RodrigoAltaf]

I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.

[bosk1]

An album like that shouldn't even have a track like Coming Home on it.

  Why?  Aside from whether or not you personally like the song, why "shouldn't" it be included?  To use Dream Theater as an example, which I think is a relevant comparison, there are plenty of relatively "straightforward" songs on the albums, such as The Silent Man, Hollow Years, As I Am, These Walls, Forsaken, and Wither, to name a few.  Why is Coming Home a problem to the point that it "shouldn't" even be on the album?  That makes no sense to me.

[bill1971]

I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.

AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.

Ah, see now I like Wither a lot actually. AROP I'm kinda meh on; I don't hate it, there's some cool stuff in there, but I've always really enjoyed Wither.

And I agree on the Constant Motion drums. I never paid much attention to them until I met a DT fan in college who played the drums. We jammed one day, and I suggested we learn that one, thinking it might not be *too* difficult. He was like, "Uh...that instrumental section is actually kinda crazy for me."

Also, no!!! What happened to Pikachu?

That's funny. Sometimes a song sounds fairly easy until you attempt to play it. I think the beginning of ITPOTE has some of my favorite MP drumming

I also like Wither. It definitely grew on me. I know what the song is about and I know Petrucci wrote the lyrics but this one line I always think of MP leaving the band. Him trying to get all of these bands off the ground but nothing sticking. It's not a knock on him because he always has work and people who want to play with him and has had a successful career, he just hasn't found a home base band again yes.  Hopefully he will with Sons of Apollo.

The thought of staring over
Leaves me paralyzed


Oh wait that was too positive towards MP. Since I am a DTF member what I meant to say is "U SUK PortnoSKILLZ"

[Dave_Manchester]

I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.

Loved the album when it came out and adore it even more today. The shorter songs are cool, and the longer numbers have flights of sheer instrumental batshit insanity that make me smile every time. Is it always tasteful? Hell no, but do I care? Also no. I'm really happy they made an album like that, where they just seemed to pile all their virtuoso excesses and 'showiness' onto a single album. I also don't mind one bit the fantasy lyrics, and to that end, only Prophets of War is a clunker to me. Not a fan of lyrics which lay out stale revelations about war and wealth. 

If SoA has instrumental sections like the ones in Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night, Ministry, or ITPOE 2, I'll be happy. And if they can throw in some of the breathy Floydian moments like the beginning of ITPOE 2, even better (though on that latter point I'm less hopeful from what people who've heard the album are saying).

[The Walrus]

I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.

AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.

Ah, see now I like Wither a lot actually. AROP I'm kinda meh on; I don't hate it, there's some cool stuff in there, but I've always really enjoyed Wither.

And I agree on the Constant Motion drums. I never paid much attention to them until I met a DT fan in college who played the drums. We jammed one day, and I suggested we learn that one, thinking it might not be *too* difficult. He was like, "Uh...that instrumental section is actually kinda crazy for me."

Also, no!!! What happened to Pikachu?

I hang out with my best friend who played drums (was a beast, but it just isn't part of his life these days, nowhere to practice) almost every weekend and we always watch MP clips or listen to his songs and discuss his drumming and songs he's written. He loves TDEN and those passages of Constant Motion. Watching drummers play it on YouTube always blows my mind.

I might bring Pikachu back someday. This is my last.fm avatar though so it's nice and consistent

[Lethean]

An album like that shouldn't even have a track like Coming Home on it.

  Why?  Aside from whether or not you personally like the song, why "shouldn't" it be included?  To use Dream Theater as an example, which I think is a relevant comparison, there are plenty of relatively "straightforward" songs on the albums, such as The Silent Man, Hollow Years, As I Am, These Walls, Forsaken, and Wither, to name a few.  Why is Coming Home a problem to the point that it "shouldn't" even be on the album?  That makes no sense to me.

In my opinion, which I probably should have specified in the first place - if you're putting out an album that you proclaim is going to take everyone by storm and blow everyone way and you're going to be the kings of prog metal etc etc etc - then while not every song has to be The Dance of Eternity, it shouldn't include such an incredibly bland, generic, we've all heard this 100 times before, super weak track.  It's not just because it's straight forward.  I'm not sure if I'm explaining what I'm thinking very well here.  It just doesn't feel to me like it belongs on the album of people who want to be considered as putting out this massive prog metal album that is going to take everyone by storm.  Whereas a ballad - like The Silent Man - feels perfectly fine on Awake and doesn't at all lessen the album's impact.  This could just be me.   When you hear I&W or Awake, or even Train of Thought, even though not everything is complex, it feels like you're listening to a prog metal album from start to finish.  So... I dunno how to say exactly what I think.  Coming Home doesn't feel like it fits the way As I Am does.  Someone described is as "bro rock"and I guess I probably agree.  I might be the only one who feels that way, but I certainly hope the rest of the album doesn't have more of what Coming Home brings to the table. 

[bill1971]

I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.

Loved the album when it came out and adore it even more today. The shorter songs are cool, and the longer numbers have flights of sheer instrumental batshit insanity that make me smile every time. Is it always tasteful? Hell no, but do I care? Also no. I'm really happy they made an album like that, where they just seemed to pile all their virtuoso excesses and 'showiness' onto a single album. I also don't mind one bit the fantasy lyrics, and to that end, only Prophets of War is a clunker to me. Not a fan of lyrics which lay out stale revelations about war and wealth. 

If SoA has instrumental sections like the ones in Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night, Ministry, or ITPOE 2, I'll be happy. And if they can throw in some of the breathy Floydian moments like the beginning of ITPOE 2, even better (though on that latter point I'm less hopeful from what people who've heard the album are saying).

I wouldn't hold your breath. (no pun intended)

From Derek's twitter

There is also no cheesy breathy vocals or "fake anger" vocals on @SonsOfApollo1 - we promise!!!

[goo-goo]

I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.

Loved the album when it came out and adore it even more today. The shorter songs are cool, and the longer numbers have flights of sheer instrumental batshit insanity that make me smile every time. Is it always tasteful? Hell no, but do I care? Also no. I'm really happy they made an album like that, where they just seemed to pile all their virtuoso excesses and 'showiness' onto a single album. I also don't mind one bit the fantasy lyrics, and to that end, only Prophets of War is a clunker to me. Not a fan of lyrics which lay out stale revelations about war and wealth. 

If SoA has instrumental sections like the ones in Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night, Ministry, or ITPOE 2, I'll be happy. And if they can throw in some of the breathy Floydian moments like the beginning of ITPOE 2, even better (though on that latter point I'm less hopeful from what people who've heard the album are saying).

SC has aged pretty well for me except for Dark Eternal Night. I usually skip that song although the outro is pretty badass. I do however, love Dark Eternal Night live version in the Forsaken EP. That song is full of energy in a live setting. Pumps me up every time.

[TAC]

I've always described SC as a giant exhale for DT.

After the emotion of Score, it just felt like DT came in for SC and "winged it". They didn't take themselves so seriously and the album comes across that way. It comes across as fun. It's easy on the ears.

It has great variety, and while he wasn't asked to truly display his range, I think it's one of James' best albums.

[Lowdz]

I hardly ever play SC. there are a few good songs there but too much I don't like. DEN, CM, Repentance, PoW... too much to put up with for the tracks I like.

Having played the two SoA songs again a few times, I'm liking them more.

[DT2003]

I just listened to Cominf Home for the second time (as I usually try not to listen to music much before an album is released) and I really like it. Yes different than I had pictured we would get from this band, but it's a very solid song IMO. I do get a pissed every time I see Derek as I really can't get past what a jerk he seems to be, but other than that I really enjoyed it.

[Madman Shepherd]

I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.

With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.

Just spit-balling here.

That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.

Ya know, a lot of people say that but there is no real proof that Mike was responsible for that direction.  In fact, in the SC documentary he said he intentionally held back from any sort of plan so they could see where the music went.  I think John was far more responsible than people give him credit (or blame) for.  For the record, SC is one of my two favorite albums along with ADTOE. 

One thing I can say is I don't think Jordan was too fond over the direction of those albums.  I'm sure he had fun with it and he is a pretty agreeable dude but when I met him in 2011 and I complimented him on the album he said something along the lines of, "Ya know, this is the first album we've done in a while that I actually want to sit down and listen to."  Obviously Mike is responsible for some of the heaviness especially the growl vocals but I think the fact that DT continues to play Dark Eternal Night shows that the rest of the guys were pretty happy with the album. 

For the record, I appear to be one of the few that loves Rite of Passage (my favorite from the album) and Constant Motion including Mike's vocals.  I thought he overdid the vocals live.  Metropolis, for instance, sound much better with just James and no harmonizing than with Mike.  Constant Motion kicks ass with the back and forth. 

[bosk1]

I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.

With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.

Just spit-balling here.

That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.

Ya know, a lot of people say that but there is no real proof that Mike was responsible for that direction.  In fact, in the SC documentary he said he intentionally held back from any sort of plan so they could see where the music went.  I think John was far more responsible than people give him credit (or blame) for.  For the record, SC is one of my two favorite albums along with ADTOE. 

...

Obviously Mike is responsible for some of the heaviness especially the growl vocals but I think the fact that DT continues to play Dark Eternal Night shows that the rest of the guys were pretty happy with the album. 

Exactly.  John is and has always been the primary writer on DT's albums.  As a result, the albums have always taken on whatever musical vibe he was writing to.  Not that Mike didn't have a lot of input as well or that Jordan didn't compose.  But John has always been the primary composer.

[Dave_Manchester]

For the record, I appear to be one of the few that loves Rite of Passage (my favorite from the album)

I think its chorus is one of the best the band ever wrote, and I've come to enjoy the instrumental section. The main riff is a tad too similar to the one used brilliantly on Misunderstood (which on certain days is my favourite DT song), but it doesn't detract much from my enjoyment of the song. The only track I never really listen to on Black Clouds is the opener, though even that has some great moments for me.

Your post made me rethink some things I'd taken for granted. I'd always assumed it was MP who was steering the band in the metal direction, but thinking more about it based on what you wrote, I see it's probably not entirely the case. I remember now (was it the Score DVD?) where JP spoke of his desire to write the all-metal album which became Train of Thought, having seen the fan reaction to all their heavier songs. And let's face it, you don't write a sphincter-loosening riff like The Dark Eternal Night if you're not into metal.

My single favourite passage of Dream Theater music is the opening to The Count of Tuscany. It somehow combines crushing heaviness with a sense of space and 'breathing', to use that word again. I'd love to know how that was composed, how they built all those layers, because it's genius to me. And that's what I meant when I said I'm hoping for similar things in the SoA album. Music which has moments of real tension and dynamics and has the confidence to leave spaces and silences, and takes its time to build an atmosphere.

[TAC]

My single favourite passage of Dream Theater music is the opening to The Count of Tuscany.

It's fantastic. The entire musical track of TCOT is one of their very best.

[Dave_Manchester]

My single favourite passage of Dream Theater music is the opening to The Count of Tuscany.

It's fantastic. The entire musical track of TCOT is one of their very best.

It really is. I usually name it as my favourite Dream Theater song. It has everything that makes the band uniquely brilliant at what they do in my opinion.

[The Walrus]

Yeah, The Count of Tuscany really is a brilliant piece of music, even if you aren't a fan of the lyrics (I personally enjoy them). From start to end that song is just magical, I can't say enough good things about it in its entirety.. It'll be interesting to see how far Derek takes the prog synths on the epics, I wonder if he uses any spacey pads to give those longer songs some 'epic' middle section. Spacey synth pads make me wet.

Re: Jordan on SC and ADTOE being the first album in a while he'd sit down and listen to - I can believe it. I believe there's something in the Lifting Shadows book about Jordan's involvement with Train of Thought, and how he hadn't even heard Master of Puppets etc. at the time, so he had to listen to a few metal staples, and even take breaks in the studio from how heavy it was getting. Not sure how exhausting it actually was for him, but Jordan definitely doesn't come from an actual metal background. His solo stuff really proves that, both the prog synth stuff and the piano albums.

[Dave_Manchester]

It'll be interesting to see how far Derek takes the prog synths on the epics, I wonder if he uses any spacey pads to give those longer songs some 'epic' middle section. Spacey synth pads make me wet.

I guess like many people waiting for the SoA album, I've spent more time than usual recently getting re-acquainted with DS's work on FII, Change of Seasons and Once in a Livetime, and what stands out for me in his favour is his skill at crafting an atmosphere. The intro to Trial of Tears for example (a top 3 DT track for me), or Lines in the Sand. The chords on Anna Lee are beautiful (I'm not much of a DT scholar - did he write that song? He seems not to like it much these days).

I have a suspicion (and hope it's proven wrong) that the first album by SoA will be overwhelmingly focused on the fast and busy 'metal virtuosity' definition of 'prog metal', what some are calling 'Adrenaline Mob with keyboards', but if they have some success and get around to being able to make a second album, I hope they'll feel comfortable enough not to have to prove their chops but to slow it all down sometimes and make an album with atmosphere.

I'm talking here before I've heard the album though. For all I know those 10 minute pieces may be what I'm hoping for, we'll see.

[Lethean]

I remember an interview with JP where he was asked about some of those albums in a way that would have made it easy for him to distance himself from them, and he said he stood by all of their albums.  I don't remember exactly when this was but I don't think it was long after the split.  I was happy to hear him say that, even though those albums aren't my favorite. (And I still like them and am happy to have them as part of DT's body of work; I just prefer other albums more.)

I did get the impression that Mike was behind the heavy vocals, and I think he was also perhaps pushing for heavier music, so I definitely think he influenced that direction.

[DT2003]

Let's not forget how heavy James last two solo albums are, so I would definitely think he leans towards the heavier stuff as well.

[Madman Shepherd]

For the record, I appear to be one of the few that loves Rite of Passage (my favorite from the album)

I think its chorus is one of the best the band ever wrote, and I've come to enjoy the instrumental section. The main riff is a tad too similar to the one used brilliantly on Misunderstood (which on certain days is my favourite DT song),

Oh man, not to get too off topic but I'm glad someone else loves that song.  That and Blind Faith go together perfectly.  Even though they aren't part of a grander song or concept, I almost feel like they have to be played together.  Fortunately they played Blind Faith in 2007 I think, and I got to hear it live but I've never gotten the opportunity to hear Misunderstood.