Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[The Walrus]

If you don't buy an artists music because you don't like their behavior you are only punishing yourself.  If it is music that you personally like but you don't support  then you can't complain when more of that type isn't made.    Having said that SOA doesn't seem to be my cup of tea and I doubt will not buy it.

Not a punishment at all, frankly it's quite the opposite. I'll still hear it thanks to my Spotify subscription, and I get to save $12-15 that I'll throw to another band's album instead (likely VUUR at this point). So I still get to hear it, but I don't financially support them. Win win.

[bill1971]

I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before.  Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that.  I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.

Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.

B.Lee

Or be understood.  They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).

Being understood is in a way a control issue. One wont be happy until that person understands you. You are in a way trying to control their thoughts. Some people wont, so it's wise to just move on.

It's likely different for different people, and I don't at all think that because I am one way that everyone is, but I can only speak for myself: it is not a control issue.   It is more a selfish thing than anything else.   I want to be understood because I want the feedback.  The feedback is useless if the information going in is faulty.  I don't mean "feedback" as in "you're right, I agree with you!" but rather, feedback of additional ideas.   I get bored with "I agree with you".  I get a thrill with "I don't agree with you, but I understand you and respect your position.  Have you considered this, though?".  It's why most of my friends do not share my political beliefs, why I loved working for GE more than any other company (they waste almost no time on platitudes), and why I post more in threads where I am not in the majority.

Not that they have to agree with you but that they have to respond a certain way at all. In your instance you want feedback. You want that feedback and if you don't get it and are upset it is in my opinion a control issue.

Ok, this is WAY off topic.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Bosk, I need to start slowly on the marathon, and that's why listening to an album I hardly know would be a good fit. If I put on Power Windows, I might start too strong (Big Money and Marathon always get me pumped!!!!) and burn out halfway through the race.

I'm not a marathoner myself, but you can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast.  You can make the most of the distance; first you need endurance, first you've got to last.

Indeed. And I've listened to that song on all four marathons I've done so far. It's always fun!

[kaos2900]

Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?

[nobloodyname]

The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.

Soon.

Yes, not too long. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the album compares to the two preview tracks.

I enjoyed reading the review that was posted yesterday - no matter the criticism of it - particularly the part about the final track. Then I realised the final track is the instrumental and immediately felt a little disappointed. I have to say instrumental tracks never really get me going (with the exception of Steam of Consciousness: it's a beautiful construction and so melodic).

[Zook]

Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?

Blind Guardian released a 14 minute song as a single.

[Bertielee]

I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before.  Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that.  I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.

Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.

B.Lee

Or be understood.  They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).

Yup, you're right, but, honestly, that would save him a lot of trouble if he sometimes let go, which, apparently, he can't.

B.Lee

[Bertielee]

If you don't buy an artists music because you don't like their behavior you are only punishing yourself.  If it is music that you personally like but you don't support  then you can't complain when more of that type isn't made.    Having said that SOA doesn't seem to be my cup of tea and I doubt will not buy it.

You're right. And I have the same reaction concerning SoA : not my cup of tea, so I won't buy it (not even listen to it for that matter). Plus, if you compare their music to what I have heard of Ice Fish, sorry, but I'll buy Ice Fish.

B.Lee

[MirrorMask]

Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?

Blind Guardian released a 14 minute song as a single.

All of this.

Furthermore we're in the YouTube era, with lyrics video, streaming, teasers etc... send one song to the radio, the short one, and upload for streaming a 10 minute one. Mike was absolutely right to point out the difference between GNR and them, but we're in an age where a "radio single" is not the only way to go. Many band have a lyric video while they shoot an "official" videoclip for the "single".

And back to what noxon said about Mike a couple of pages earlier - I have no reason to doubt any word he wrote. Probably that's why his loss of temper online sticks out more, because anyone who follows him knows how usually he's great, filled with enthusiasm and with a deep knowledge both of music and the way fans think.

[bosk1]

Bosk, I need to start slowly on the marathon, and that's why listening to an album I hardly know would be a good fit. If I put on Power Windows, I might start too strong (Big Money and Marathon always get me pumped!!!!) and burn out halfway through the race.

I'm not a marathoner myself, but you can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast.  You can make the most of the distance; first you need endurance, first you've got to last.

Indeed. And I've listened to that song on all four marathons I've done so far. It's always fun!

Cool.  Yeah, it's different for everybody.  I never did a marathon, but I used to do shorter distance running.  Now, I'm into distance cycling.  So, I can identify in many ways.  I get what you are saying about not going out too fast.  I only said what I said because, if I were going to divide it into quarters, for the first quarter, I would want something familiar to help set my rhythm for me.  Starting right off with something I wasn't familiar with would feel weird.  But I get you.

For a lot of runners, I imagine the mindset to be kind of like:  the green light flashes, the flags go up; churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.  They deftly maneuver and muscle for rank--fuel burning fast on an empty tank.  Reckless and wild, they pour through the turns.  Their prowess is potent and secretly stern.  As they speed through the finish, the flags go down.  The fans get up and they get out of town.

[bosk1]

I think MP's content was fine but he has such an aggressive high school response to everything.

"Really??
GnR was a multi platinum band with complete control over radio...
SOA hasn't even released its 1st album....Get real!"

I can see pretty much anyone else if they even felt the need to respond would be more like. "I don't think we are quite that popular. " Anyhow, I am not in MP's shoes but it seems like he should probably just stay away from the social media or at the very least don't respond.

Agreed.  The question was reasonable.  The point Mike was trying to make is reasonable.  But, as is often the case, HOW he said what he said is the problem.

[mikeyd23]

Re: to the single talk.

Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?

I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.

[Bertielee]

Re: to the single talk.

Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?

I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.

That's what I was thinking as well. You won't hear them on the radio, except maybe a specialized one. Maybe it will work for them, but I think there is practically 0 chance a band of 50year-olds will be successful to the point of being a household name.

B.Lee

[Ben_Jamin]

Back then, you had to buy the album in order to hear how the band sounded. Would you still buy their next albums after realizing said artist was a really bad person, an asshole, did unlawful/unethical things? Charles Manson comes to mind.

Now since we know pretty much the artists just recently scratched their ass thanks to social media, its becoming more of a personal attachment. You get upset when they do something you reject or don't believe in. Yet, you won't buy their art because of that. Sometimes, the art is the effect of the person being that way. Which in turn brings you the art you see and love, turning grotesque into beauty. I'm sure a lot of people that are famous inventors or held highly were real assholes and if people knew would change their stance.

I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.

[mikeyd23]

Re: to the single talk.

Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?

I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.

That's what I was thinking as well. You won't hear them on the radio, except maybe a specialized one. Maybe it will work for them, but I think there is practically 0 chance a band of 50year-olds will be successful to the point of being a household name.

B.Lee

Right, and I'm not bashing. It's not like you'll hear the next DT single on the radio either, that's fine... But once again, I'm confused, my read of this is that it was hyped to be a prog metal thing, their core fanbase will probably have a lot of crossover with DT's, so I feel like they could have released something more proggy for a single and it would have gone over maybe better with their target audience.

It's not like it's 1985 and you gotta release the radio friendly single to get air play, then people will buy the record to hear the deep cuts. It just doesn't work remotely like that anymore.

[Stadler]

Back then, you had to buy the album in order to hear how the band sounded. Would you still buy their next albums after realizing said artist was a really bad person, an asshole, did unlawful/unethical things? Charles Manson comes to mind.

Now since we know pretty much the artists just recently scratched their ass thanks to social media, its becoming more of a personal attachment. You get upset when they do something you reject or don't believe in. Yet, you won't buy their art because of that. Sometimes, the art is the effect of the person being that way. Which in turn brings you the art you see and love, turning grotesque into beauty. I'm sure a lot of people that are famous inventors or held highly were real assholes and if people knew would change their stance.

I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.

I miss those days.  I remember being into Sabbath and all I knew about them was they dressed bad (look at Bill Ward on Sabotage) and they did coke (yes, I got the "thank you" reference in Vol. 4).   And they were so mysterious and scary as a result.  It added a new dimension to their music.   Kiss too.  All I knew from Gene Simmons was that photo on Alive II.   Scared the fuck out of me and he was larger than life as a result.   Now?   We know so much that it's all a cartoon.   I try to explain this to my kid and she just doesn't get it (though when I took her to see Kiss and she saw the bombast and spectacle, she kind of got it). 

[Madman Shepherd]

Re: to the single talk.

Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?

I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.

That's what I was thinking as well. You won't hear them on the radio, except maybe a specialized one. Maybe it will work for them, but I think there is practically 0 chance a band of 50year-olds will be successful to the point of being a household name.

B.Lee

Right, and I'm not bashing. It's not like you'll hear the next DT single on the radio either, that's fine... But once again, I'm confused, my read of this is that it was hyped to be a prog metal thing, their core fanbase will probably have a lot of crossover with DT's, so I feel like they could have released something more proggy for a single and it would have gone over maybe better with their target audience.

It's not like it's 1985 and you gotta release the radio friendly single to get air play, then people will buy the record to hear the deep cuts. It just doesn't work remotely like that anymore.

Yep. It's a completely new era and you would think a guy that was responding on Twitter would realize that.

[Stadler]

I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before.  Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that.  I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.

Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.

B.Lee

Or be understood.  They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).

Yup, you're right, but, honestly, that would save him a lot of trouble if he sometimes let go, which, apparently, he can't.

B.Lee

Can't argue with that.  Not EVERY question needs to be answered in real time. 

One approach would be... they're on the press tour: "Hey, this is our new single, 'Coming Home'.   We wanted to get a quick shot of flavor of SoA - kind of like espresso.  Funny thing; some fan on Twitter asked why not release the epic; you know, we're not yet at the level GnR where we can release 10 minute opuses as our first single!  Yet!  Anyway, it's just a teaser, hope you like it!" or some shit like that.  Not telling them what to say, but pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat.   

[Adami]

I think it's a good point that SoA are approaching all of this with an antiquated mindset. Not just them, lots of bands are still adapting slowly.

But releasing the "single" is mainly meant to lure in people from the radio or something, and clealry SoA aren't going to be getting much audience from that.

In fact, there are essentially 7 groups of people they could be aiming for.

1) Those familiar with Portnoy or his projects
2) Those familiar with JSS or his projects
3) Those familiar with DS.....
4) Those familiar with Sheehan....
5) Those familiar with Bumblefoot.....
6) Those familiar with more than one of them
7) Those not familiar with any of them

For numbers 1, 3, 4, and 6, releasing longer progier tracks would better speak to those audience. For numbers 2 and 5, I dunno to be honest. And number 7 just isn't going to get them much.

So statistically speaking, releasing the more proggy tracks increases their chances of building their fan base.

[Ben_Jamin]

I only know what's happening based on this thread. I dont have a twitter, don't have them as a FB friend because of how they are, meaning bombastic and over the top kind of guys, its just who they are. I do follow his bands though that I'm interested in.

My concern is the people that know this yet still continue to have him as a twitter/friend. I guess thats a troll nuh.

Anyways, the songs I'm interested in are Figaros Whore and Opus Maximus. I hope that review wasn't too grateful to be grateful.

[antigoon]

Y'all are crazy. The crossover appeal of Sons of Apollo is massive, I tell you! As massive as a missile that has been launched right at you!

[?]

Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/

"Due to its line-up of super-heroes, Sons of Apollo’s debut has been anticipated with nothing short of frenzy in rock circles. Teaser releases have been met with hysteria..." Oh really?

I've got a digital advance copy, have listened to the album once and will write a review after I've had multiple listens and enough time to let the songs sink in. It certainly is prog, but it's much closer to SC/BC&SL than FII.

The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.

Soon.

It doesn't sound that much like Home to my ears, but the presence of the sitar (patch) makes me think people will compare those two songs. The keyboard lead intro actually reminds me of LITS.

[Adami]

Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.

[Tick]

I am underwhelmed by the 2 songs I've heard but I'll likely buy it and see what I think after hearing the whole album a few times.

[gmillerdrake]

Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.

Same here. Although I'd still prefer those albums over a host of other albums out there by other bands.....these two are me least favorite offerings from DT with only ITPOE and TCOT garnering a listen from me. The other songs have some moments but don't compel me to spin the entire albums.

[bill1971]

Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/

"Due to its line-up of super-heroes, Sons of Apollo’s debut has been anticipated with nothing short of frenzy in rock circles. Teaser releases have been met with hysteria..." Oh really?

I've got a digital advance copy, have listened to the album once and will write a review after I've had multiple listens and enough time to let the songs sink in. It certainly is prog, but it's much closer to SC/BC&SL than FII.

The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.

Soon.

It doesn't sound that much like Home to my ears, but the presence of the sitar (patch) makes me think people will compare those two songs. The keyboard lead intro actually reminds me of LITS.

Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?

[nobloodyname]

I do hope it's the latter

[gzarruk]

Y'all are crazy. The crossover appeal of Sons of Apollo is massive, I tell you! As massive as a missile that has been launched right at you!

 

[bill1971]

I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.

From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.

Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)

https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/

I am actually not joking.

[SwedishGoose]

Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.

Same here. Although I'd still prefer those albums over a host of other albums out there by other bands.....these two are me least favorite offerings from DT with only ITPOE and TCOT garnering a listen from me. The other songs have some moments but don't compel me to spin the entire albums.

+1 to all of this

[Madman Shepherd]

I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.

From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.

Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)

https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/

I am actually not joking.

Maybe it's Nicky Spanjaards 

[The Walrus]

Just putting this here to help clear the air for some people who think some of us are attacking Mike, which we certainly aren't. This is simply to back up why some of us are skeptical - about SoA's commercial success and longevity, the hype, and Mike's tenure with the band. And I do hope Mike reads this so he understands we can still be fans and still voice concerns. After revisiting these articles I feel my hesitation is just... what do you think? I'm genuinely curious to hear others' opinions here. Look how similar some of these statements are to the SoA marketing - the hype, the 'best songs ever,' the 'this is my new home.'

Adrenaline Mob

"The feedback we've gotten back so far has been unreal," Portnoy told AOL's Noisecreep. "Even my wife, who's been through it all with me, says it's the best stuff she's ever heard me play on. I played in Dream Theater for 25 years, plus some other pretty decent bands including Avenged Sevenfold, so that's really saying something."

He added, "I've listened to these tunes so many times already and all I want to do is go out and play them live with this band. I've always had lots of side projects in my life, but what's exciting for me is knowing that Adrenaline Mob is bigger than that. This is a real band with a real future and 11 new songs that I think the fans are going to flip for."

The Winery Dogs

"We all have cleared our schedule for the rest of this year to focus on The Winery Dogs, and we plan on doing the same next year," the stickman said. "We plan on riding this cycle - and this band - as far as we could take it. And we all view this as a full-time band; this is not a side project."

After separating Flying Colors, PSMS and Transatlantic as side projects and singling out Winery Dogs as "the band," Portnoy explained further, "I view this as my new home. And the way I was in Dream Theater - that was my home and I did other little things when I could, I view the situation here the same.

"Adrenaline Mob, we gave it our best shot, but this, right from the get-go, it just feels great within the band - the internal chemistry is amazing - and also the external reaction has been just off the charts, unanimously supportive and positive."

[Stadler]

I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.

From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.

Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)

https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/

I am actually not joking.

You know how I feel about all this, speculation, etc... but having said that, it wouldn't surprise me.   I read that review and I vacillated between "maybe English is a second language" and "someone who works for the record company".   Then I thought, those are some complex words for even someone for whom English is a first language... and some of the syntax was just, odd.   So that kind of left me with the latter.    Either way, from a critique standpoint (I'm talking Roger Ebert, Lester Bangs kind of thing) it's the kind of review that isn't really useful.     

[ProfessorPeart]

Well, to put my spin on it, I don't read reviews and I never put stock in what the artist says about their new 'whatever'.

Every musician/band that I listen to (heck, even the ones I don't) always says that every new release is the best thing they have ever done. I never buy their PR opinion.

If it is an artist I like, they are either an automatic buy or I check out a few samples to hear if it grabs me. Press, Reviews, social media, bad behavior, costumes/masks/makeup/hair/tattoos etc., has no bearing in my purchase of an album.

The music, and my opinion of it, is all I care about. Everything else is meaningless to me.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.

From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.

Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)

https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/

I am actually not joking.

Holy shit, I hope this is true. I would probably buy the album just based on that fact alone.