Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[antigoon]

oh god not more divorce analogies

[King Postwhore]

oh god not more divorce analogies

I like my cheating analogy better.

[antigoon]

a situation so truly complex and mindbending that it can only be understood through the lens of babies, divorce, and cheating

[Stadler]

Now I think you are being dramatic Skeever.  Don't you think that it would all settle down if Mike would let it go.  You know, his anger?

Serious, respectful comment: do you honestly believe that?   Do you honestly believe that ALL of this is simply a reaction to some ridiculous (or whatever word you want to use here, but in any case, not positive) action on Mike's part?  He's a working musician who was in a band for 25 years, a band that he was not a hired gun in.  We're torturing the marriage analogy here, but if you use the premise that it was at least somewhat nuanced between "I have to leave" and "I don't want to leave", it can't be easy watching your ex-wife not only remarry, but also go to the same places you did when you were married (the current tour) and do the same things you did when you were married (A Change of Seasons).  As ridiculous as it might sound, when I was freshly divorced, there was a bar I frequented in Hartford, a bar I used to go to when in law school.   I knew a bartender there, and it was a "safe place".   One weekend I walk in, take my usual spot, and there across the way is the ex-wife with her new boyfriend/soon-to-be-fiancé/soon-to-be-new-husband.    And my friend came over and was like "Why?" (as well as "Do you want me to spit in her drink?" kiddingly.)    Later I was talking with my ex about my daughter and she says "by the way, those people are assholes at [Bar]".  And I said to her, "but what did you expect?"  There are a hundred bars in the Hartford area, and you have to go to the one that is a relative safe haven for me?  It's a free country, do what you want, but you have to at least account for some human emotion to interject itself.   

Point is, and always was here, that we are not in the situation.  We don't have the emotions, we don't have the necessary knowledge to know what the hot buttons are, and so it is my opinion that we are not in a good position to judge.   I do however, respect those that have a position that doesn't agree with this one.  I don't think alternative positions to mine are "unreasonable" or "blind" or anything like that.   To me it's interesting discussing human psychology.  We're fascinating creatures.

Yup.  I will always follow his music.  We can still be disappointing that he still slings mud at DT when it's well known he forced his way out.

Fair point, but you have to respect those that don't consider "he forced himself out" as the be-all and end-all fact.  It's a part of it that can't be denied, no doubt, but it doesn't trump all the other things, and it doesn't negate any emotions that may arise after the fact. 

[bosk1]

Now I think you are being dramatic Skeever.  Don't you think that it would all settle down if Mike would let it go.  You know, his anger?

Serious, respectful comment: do you honestly believe that?   Do you honestly believe that ALL of this is simply a reaction to some ridiculous (or whatever word you want to use here, but in any case, not positive) action on Mike's part? 

I can't speak for King.  But from my perspective:  For the most part, yes.  Pretty much the ONLY time you see negativity posted here about Mike is when he says something he shouldn't.  Otherwise, it's almost entirely praise.  Yes, there are exceptions.  But those are rare and far in between.  Although it is human nature to take "sides," and some people definitely do in situations like this, a lot of people on this site are fans of Mike Portnoy.  When he is playing music or doing the types of positive fan relations things that made us fans in the first place, there really isn't anything negative said.

[King Postwhore]

Yes I do.  I've been on here a long time and none of this discussion comes up unless Mike says something on social medial that's disparaging to DT or this forum then the discussion comes back up. Sure there are people that go way overboard taking it personal.  They are too invested.  Most see Mike who left, and he did leave not letting go and wishing he would.  He's got so much more going on that's so damn positive right now in his life.

Edit: Bosk1 beat me to it.  Well said sir.

[emtee]

This thread kind of proves why MP was right to wait several years post split to assemble a prog-metal band. Unfortunately these kinds
of discussions/comments will continue as SOA moves forward...it's basically unavoidable. But at least ample time has passed that
both camps (and fans of both camps) should be able to manage things better now verses 4 or 5 years ago. I'm excited for the music
and that's all I can add to the discussion.

[Zook]

How dare they not want to take a break, and how dare they continue touring cities that ensure financial success. Whatever analogy you want to use, it's still no excuse for MP's behavior toward Dream Theater the past 7 years.

[Lowdz]

Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.

[The Silent Cody]

Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.

This. I could hear some new music in Introduction pt1 interview. It very promising, You can hear some real different moods there, calm and twisted at once. I think it's gonna be a very good album. And, Signs Of Times is a grower, especially vocals. JSS really fits there, but I like that kind od vocals so I understand why some of us have different opinion

[The Walrus]

This thread kind of proves why MP was right to wait several years post split to assemble a prog-metal band. Unfortunately these kinds
of discussions/comments will continue as SOA moves forward...it's basically unavoidable. But at least ample time has passed that
both camps (and fans of both camps) should be able to manage things better now verses 4 or 5 years ago. I'm excited for the music
and that's all I can add to the discussion.

These discussions happened as recently as TSOAD, and as far back as Flying Colors. I don't think it necessarily proves anything one way or another but that's just me. I'm excited for the music too. I just hope the rest of the album has more memorable lyrics and vocal melodies. So far the soloing is great and they got groove but I like my metal with strong melodies.

[Stadler]

How dare they not want to take a break, and how dare they continue touring cities that ensure financial success. Whatever analogy you want to use, it's still no excuse for MP's behavior toward Dream Theater the past 7 years.

Which is a fair position to take, but recognize that not everyone sees things so black and white.   It's not unreasonable to see that as their favorite band - a band that used to be fan-friendly, that used to tailor setlists to cities, and issue things based on fan desire rather than monetary gain, and who used to be a family of sorts, respecting each member when it came to group decisions - morphing into a machine that was now about the almighty money, putting dollars and cents ahead of the needs/wants of their members (here, a core member).  Now, that may or may not then excuse MP's behavior, but it's certainly another way of looking at things. 

All reasonable conclusions that have to be respected. 

[antigoon]

In retrospect I think a short-ish break probably would have done them some good tbqh.

[bill1971]

Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.

Good point we need more music from them. Although I am afraid they will release a new track and Derek or Mike will retweet some comment like "DT should retire, THIS is how prog should be done. #DT sux since MP and DS left"

[kaos2900]

In retrospect I think a short-ish break probably would have done them some good tbqh.

Meh, I don't know. I think the band needed a break from MP's control over the DT sound. MP leaving was the equivalent of a 5 year break. It's clear now that MP had a ton of creative juice flowing and they weren't for DT. It wasn't fair to the other 4 guys to take 5 years off so MP could sow his wild oats so to speak. Either way, it all worked out in the end.

[Zook]

How dare they not want to take a break, and how dare they continue touring cities that ensure financial success. Whatever analogy you want to use, it's still no excuse for MP's behavior toward Dream Theater the past 7 years.

Which is a fair position to take, but recognize that not everyone sees things so black and white.   It's not unreasonable to see that as their favorite band - a band that used to be fan-friendly, that used to tailor setlists to cities, and issue things based on fan desire rather than monetary gain, and who used to be a family of sorts, respecting each member when it came to group decisions - morphing into a machine that was now about the almighty money, putting dollars and cents ahead of the needs/wants of their members (here, a core member).  Now, that may or may not then excuse MP's behavior, but it's certainly another way of looking at things. 

All reasonable conclusions that have to be respected. 

I'm sure they aren't anywhere near hurting for cash, but to stop the flow of income completely would not be a smart move. Hell, even Metallica said they pretty much have to tour. That's probably a bit of an exaggeration, because they're freakin' Metallica, but rich or poor, these people have to have some sort of income to survive. Money runs out eventually, and considering that Mike wanted a break mostly because he wanted to be the new drummer of Avenged Sevenfold (I know the circumstances, but that's still what he wanted), a very popular, money making band, it's unfair to ask the other guys to put their lives on hold so he can try new things while making more money doing it. Sure they could do side projects, but how much money is gained from side projects? Unfortunately, in the end, it is all about money, but I don't think for a second they stopped caring about their fans. Not everyone is the same. Mike worked himself to death for us, but that was his choice. He didn't have to, and I'm grateful he went through such efforts to bring us joy, but to expect the same from the other guys is both selfish and entitled. The bottom line is Mike chose to leave the band. He didn't get what he wanted, so he left. The other guys probably knew exactly why he wanted a break, and thought it was unfair. He said he was burnt out on Dream Theater, and if that's the case then  he needs to leave. Besides, after however long the break would have been, playing in all these other bands, I'm pretty sure that inspirational corner would be in full force, and we'd have another mediocre offering like the two before he left. Sure, the next 3 weren't amazing, but it was nice not hearing any rips off (save for Looking Glass har har) or more forced tough guy vocals.

I miss Portnoy. I prefer him to Mangini, but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass to say whatever he wants, and I'm not going to make excuses for him. The situation sucks, and it's clear he hasn't moved on, and is hurt, but if we're going to keep using marriage analogies, talking trash about DT in front of the kids is a shitting thing to do, and now he's trashing a portion of the fanbase when he clearly has no idea what he's talking about because he hasn't been here in 3 years.

[bosk1]

Okay, you said your piece on that.  But now let's PLEASE get it back on topic, because the DT split is a tangent from the tangent of Mike's comments and doesn't really need to be rehashed here.  So let's leave it at that, please.

[Stadler]

<Removed after I saw Bosk's post.>

[Zook]

Okay, you said your piece on that.  But now let's PLEASE get it back on topic, because the DT split is a tangent from the tangent of Mike's comments and doesn't really need to be rehashed here.  So let's leave it at that, please.

YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!

I'll wait til the album drops to give my thoughts then. The single didn't get me excited though.

[JayOctavarium]

So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.

[the keyboard wizard]

I'm going to do an email interview of Derek in a few days. So if you have something to ask him directly, I'll try and ask him.

[kaos2900]

I'm going to do an email interview of Derek in a few days. So if you have something to ask him directly, I'll try and ask him.

Who would he like to work with that he hasn't yet?

[the keyboard wizard]

He agreed to do a no filtered interview so your question is next

[JayOctavarium]

I'm going to do an email interview of Derek in a few days. So if you have something to ask him directly, I'll try and ask him.

Since he has worked closely with both guys... Who does he think would win in an Arm Wrestling match. Zakk Wylde or John Petrucci.

I am dead serious

[the keyboard wizard]

I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).

[bill1971]

He agreed to do a no filtered interview so your question is next

Does he have any resentment towards MP for firing him from DT?

[bosk1]

What do the plans for the immediate future of the band look like?  Specifically (although there may be other relevant questions that could be asked, depending on what he says):
-Is this truly planned to be a full-time band for all the guys?
-Is there a tour planned?  What timeframe?  Where are they planning on going?
-Are they envisioning this being their primary band for all of them, meaning they plan to try to do album/tour cycles as regularly as possible for the near future, or is this more to be "just one more project" in addition to the other things they are all involved with?
-Is it more of a "wait-and-see" approach, depending on how things go once the album is released and a bit of touring is done?

[bosk1]

I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).

I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away).  Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play?  But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands.  So I dunno.

[bill1971]

So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.

Yes, I would be on Next to None opening. I don't blame him, it's great he is trying to help his son out.

[Elite]

So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.

'SOA' is the abbreviation for 'STD' in my language.

[JayOctavarium]

So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.

'SOA' is the abbreviation for 'STD' in my language.

[bill1971]

I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).

I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away).  Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play?  But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands.  So I dunno.

I think there is no doubt they will cover DT songs. I don't recall him saying he wont play DT songs anymore or just a whole show of DT. If he did he can just say he wasn't planning on it but he is doing it "for the fans"

[DougMasters]

I don't know much about the legitimacy about Mike's drama toward DT or anything.

What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.

Now, I don't know much about divorce either. Hopefully I'll never have to, but I do know people who are divorced. I know that with MP and DT, lawyers are involved. I know that I've read much time passed where direct communication didn't happen, however lawyers still did their thing.

What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier for people in a group, who go the "winning" end of a stick, to let their lawyer rebuke comments or things like that, and to do all the talking through their lawyer than it is for the lone guy, who when he speaks, has to be rebuked by, his former friends ( current friends ?), lawyers.

I dunno if Mike gets "out of line". I dunno if I'd consider it that. But I don't know the extent of the types of communications that's been had, lawyers and people speaking through lawyers have habits of taking their own kind of jabs. There may be more there, or maybe what we all know is all that there is to know ( though I doubt it )

It's hard for me to read a comment Mike may have made that one may consider to be low, or a dig, or disrespectful and not think "Ya know, I don't know the whole story, and I never will"

Either way, even if the dude kept his trap shut, which would be sad considering his personality and why most of us who love the guy, love the guy, I have a hard time thinking many people's reactions would have been much different. It's human nature to take sides. Which, is also, mostly a good thing.

I so far love the SOA, and I think he was smart for waiting, though I think it's sad him waiting is considered to be the smart move.

[Adami]

I don't know much about the legitimacy about Mike's drama toward DT or anything.

What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.

Now, I don't know much about divorce either. Hopefully I'll never have to, but I do know people who are divorced. I know that with MP and DT, lawyers are involved. I know that I've read much time passed where direct communication didn't happen, however lawyers still did their thing.

What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier for people in a group, who go the "winning" end of a stick, to let their lawyer rebuke comments or things like that, and to do all the talking through their lawyer than it is for the lone guy, who when he speaks, has to be rebuked by, his former friends ( current friends ?), lawyers.

I dunno if Mike gets "out of line". I dunno if I'd consider it that. But I don't know the extent of the types of communications that's been had, lawyers and people speaking through lawyers have habits of taking their own kind of jabs. There may be more there, or maybe what we all know is all that there is to know ( though I doubt it )

It's hard for me to read a comment Mike may have made that one may consider to be low, or a dig, or disrespectful and not think "Ya know, I don't know the whole story, and I never will"

Either way, even if the dude kept his trap shut, which would be sad considering his personality and why most of us who love the guy, love the guy, I have a hard time thinking many people's reactions would have been much different. It's human nature to take sides. Which, is also, mostly a good thing.

I so far love the SOA, and I think he was smart for waiting, though I think it's sad him waiting is considered to be the smart move.

While I don't agree with your reasoning or mindset, that is a very good, well-tempered, and non-confrontational way of expressing that opinion.

-hug-

[Schurftkut]

I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).

Could you slip in to do a Queen cover of Innuendo or some other song from them? Jeff did a Queen convention (see youtube), and really sounded good and looked like he was really enjoying himself.