Author Topic: Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo  (Read 308800 times)

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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2240 on: September 18, 2017, 07:02:23 AM »
In hindsight the writing was on the wall a couple of days ago when MP posted a long (for him) post in the SoA thread about how his own forum was the only place he was seeing negativity towards the music they'd released. "Everywhere ELSE" (his caps) was "unanimously positive" (which made me wonder which other places he'd been checking, because that's not been my perception).

I thought at the time that there was a lot of frustration in his post, even for him, and he brought up a lot of irrelevant information ("Derek & I just did a European Press Tour doing 50 interviews in Paris, London and Berlin and EVERY journalist was glowing with excitement and enthusiasm" - isn't that their job? How often does it happen that a weary journalist says to his interview subject "I've listened to your album and it's a bland pile of shit, but anyway let's talk about it").

It's a shame to see it go. I've PMed the regulars who aren't on here already, suggesting they think about joining. It'd be a pity to lose that community entirely. MP wanted a devotional fansite, not a forum, and he'll be able to craft his Facebook and Twitter followers into that. He wanted the SoA thread to be like his Twitter comments, where he'll suggest we "Imagine the swagger of WASP, the chops of Saxon, and the singer from Yngwie Malmsteen", and a hundred posts will cream over the idea, and prophesy the impending death of Dream Theater's popularity. That was never going to happen on there. As Peter Mc just wrote above, you can't hype things as highly as he does and always expect a correspondingly glowing response when it turns out to be not very good.

Oh well. Back to SoA discussion, and the irony is, both songs are now really growing on me (I was about to post that over there when it got shut down). I always liked Coming Home, but Signs of the Time (awkward title, can't get used to it) is starting to click, especially the instrumental section.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2241 on: September 18, 2017, 07:10:12 AM »
MP also has a Forum over Facebook, and if you want to be there you have to lick his balls.
I got a warning not long ago for giving my impressions about Sings of the Time and my post got deleted. I will stick to this community as long as it remains open.

Offline Mindflux

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2242 on: September 18, 2017, 07:12:18 AM »
MP also has a Forum over Facebook, and if you want to be there you have to lick his balls.
I got a warning not long ago for giving my impressions about Sings of the Time and my post got deleted. I will stick to this community as long as it remains open.

I'm on his FB forum, it's not run by him but he is a member.  I've never had to suck up to him. I even said that JSS sounded like a low rent Russell Allen and nobody said much other than they agreed or disagreed.. no warnings/spankings/flaming.

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2243 on: September 18, 2017, 07:18:26 AM »
Wow just when I thought I couldn't be any more disappointed in MP. I was a member since 2007 and like many others started to make less frequent visits after the split and Wey left. Still, the whole social media excuse is bullshit. His whole handling of SoA since day one has been the nail in the coffin for my opinion of him. From the whining about spoiling who the members were to this is just to much. And on top of that I think the music is not good at all. I honestly feel bad for the other 3 guys in SoA not named Mike or Derek. Just ridiculous.


Offline The Walrus

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2244 on: September 18, 2017, 07:19:22 AM »
I was a very active user there - that place became my 'home' so to speak for many years. I wasn't on the mods' good side because I thought it was disingenuous to be 100% fanboner-ing over everything Mike puts out instead of being honest. C'est la vie. He wants an echo chamber, boy, he's got it now, but I can't deny I'm extremely curious to see Blabbermouth get wind of this and write a story just days after Mike cited them for positive reinforcement re: SoA.

The Facebook forum group, where I pulled the quotes from Mike and Derek, is a great place, but also has some of the biggest fanboying I've ever seen for a musician. There's one guy in particular who literally acts like Mike's drumming in Coming Home is the second coming of Christ and, of course, hates Dream Theater post-split... ugh.

I honestly wonder if Mike is having some sort of crisis because he's hopping from band to band, short-lived project to short-lived project, with literally no stability like he had with Dream Theater. I hate to sound like some sort of keyboard psychologist, but...
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Offline WilliamMunny

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2245 on: September 18, 2017, 07:27:36 AM »
Wow...just wow.  I guess most of what I have to say will simply echo what others have already said, but I must say that banning MinistroRaven (one of MP's most active and staunch supporters) and then closing the forum is pretty petty (in my opinion).

He obviously doesn't owe anyone anything, but he is in an industry where he is essentially vying for our hard-earned entertainment dollars and perception does mean something...and right now I am perceiving pettiness and I'm kinda over it.

Like many have said, when Wey left (follow closely by guys like Kirksnosehair) the forum became a bit less active; but there was a tight-knit community and some pretty awesome discussions over the years.  At the center of this was MP...why wouldn't an artist want something like this in his backyard?  Regardless of the opinions, discussion is key to the success of anything...good or bad, at least people were still talking.

Like most of you have said, I'm a huge fan of the man but am kinda disappointed.  I'll akin this feeling to what it feels like when you meet a hero and you realize they just aren't that cool of a person...that's the closest comparison I can think of.

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2246 on: September 18, 2017, 07:28:21 AM »
I'm actually thinking that Neal should find another drummer for the NMB. They'd still have Flying Colors and probably Transatlantic. I just don't want that band to slow down putting out music waiting for MP.  Those guys aren't getting any younger.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2247 on: September 18, 2017, 07:36:50 AM »
Well I guess this place will be receiving a nice little bump of new regulars  :lol

Offline emtee

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2248 on: September 18, 2017, 07:46:57 AM »
Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.

I loved the place and the people and I will miss it but I appreciate MP keeping it open for so long and allowing us to have a place to
talk music.

Nothing lasts forever...time to move on!

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2249 on: September 18, 2017, 08:01:10 AM »
It's so self defeating to have a forum of your supporters and stifle discussion so you only hear what you want to hear. How can you judge your audience? It's your livelihood at stake. You will get dissenters but you might hear some home truths and everybody needs that.


Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2250 on: September 18, 2017, 08:03:14 AM »
It's so self defeating to have a forum of your supporters and stifle discussion so you only hear what you want to hear. How can you judge your audience? It's your livelihood at stake. You will get dissenters but you might hear some home truths and everybody needs that.

Indeed, trolling and insults are never ok, but constructive criticism should be welcomed.

Am I remembering wrong, or did DT during the Astonishing shows organized the title track as encore after complaints that there was no formal bow + coming back was directed to them through this board? or at least through social media...
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Offline Riceloft

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2251 on: September 18, 2017, 08:15:25 AM »
Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.

I loved the place and the people and I will miss it but I appreciate MP keeping it open for so long and allowing us to have a place to
talk music.

Nothing lasts forever...time to move on!
Agreed 100%

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2252 on: September 18, 2017, 08:30:37 AM »
Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.

Hopefully then he'll move to step two and stop trying to foster environments where his followers and bandmates are encouraged to shit on Dream Theater at every opportunity.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2253 on: September 18, 2017, 08:34:20 AM »
I might have grated on some people (unintentionally) but I was Firewings over there. I love all the forum members on my Facebook, and even text some regularly - if anyone wants to add me on social media just send me a PM. I love all the regulars on the MP forum and enjoy the people here as well. I would like to discuss Mike's projects with likeminded individuals on more than one place (not that there's anything wrong with this thread, I just like multiple outlets).

Also I apologize if I pissed anyone off ever. I feel like I had a hand in the forum getting shut down and I feel bad.
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2254 on: September 18, 2017, 08:40:07 AM »
This reminds me of when David Draiman shut down the Disturbed message board 11 years ago. He made some contradictory statements in a couple radio interviews and when called on it he got pussy and closed the forum.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2255 on: September 18, 2017, 08:42:33 AM »
Okay, just a reminder:  This thread is primarily for discussing SoA.  I understand that, in light of the context of mp.com shutting down, some discussion of that is related.  And I'm not one to be overly persnickety about going off on semi-related tangents.  But when we wander off into discussing and criticizing Mike's character, we have not only gone off topic, but are in violation of rules about personal attacks and bashing former band-members and their music. 

As we often say, and as it says in the forum rules, open, honest critique of the music is allowed, so long as it is constructive and not simply bashing.  Attacks aimed at the person, no matter how "justified" one might feel that they are, are not welcome.  SEVERAL posts over the last couple of pages have crossed the line.  Under the circumstances, I get it, and I am not going to hand out warnings for those.  But it needs to stop.  Further insults or attacks on Mike's character will not be permitted.  You can discuss his actions, and tactfully criticize them if you feel that is necessary and relevant.  But be careful before you hit the "post" button if your post may be too close to the line.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2256 on: September 18, 2017, 08:46:17 AM »
What a nasty thing to do to an exceedingly loyal and tight-knit community.

I've joked in here about people needing to lighten up about Derek's dumb tweets but Mike closing down his forum actually offends my sensibilities. I never posted there or anything but jeez. I get that it can't feel good to have people on your personal website take shots at your art but at some point you gotta realize that, like it or not, you are also the steward of a global community that has existed for over a decade. It's rude as hell to just wipe that out on a whim.

I can't speak for Mike, and I certainly can't compare my own forum to the size of his or how DTF has grown here. But I wanted to respond to the bolded part of what you said. I ran a forum devoted to Queensryche for more than 10 years. It became, at its high point in 2012, THE source for news on the band and held a treasure trove of information.

But at some point, you get haters for the way you and those who you rely on, run things. That leads to criticism, to bashing, to hurt feelings, and then finally, trolling. And the trolling gets old. It wasn't just MP that got bashed. Forum admins get trashed all the time for what they do. Hell, bosk1 has a group of people that constantly shit on him for the way he runs this place. And personally, my forum has been closed down since December, and there are trolls that literally stalk me online, clipping and pasting anything I say to libel me on another forum...even though the forum has been closed for nine months.  :lol  All of it -- what MP.com, here at DTF, and what I dealt with -- is pathetic.

The fact is, while you call it being "a steward of a global community that has existed for over a decade," and that "it's rude as hell to just wipe that out on a whim," there also comes a point in time that enough is enough. You're not wrong at all. But these forums become a huge burden. You wouldn't think that they do. It's just an online forum. But when what you say and do online, and in a community constantly gets bashed and misinterpreted, there's a breaking point for most people.

Mike Portnoy is a public figure. He's made some huge mistakes, but as a public figure, he's open to a higher level of scrutiny that guys like bosk1 and myself are NOT. And MP kept his forum alive for almost 20 years. That's...incredible, given the abuse he takes online. I lasted a bit more than a decade. How far will bosk last? I don't know, maybe for another 10 years, maybe another month. You have to ask him.

Again, you're not wrong, antigoon. But at some point, those that steward a community that is very much tied in with themselves personally, need to make decisions that help them move forward. I am sure MP realizes what he's done, and probably feels a bit bad about it too (I know I did). However, if he felt it needed to go away to help him get to a better place, I completely get it, and wish him the best, even if I am bummed that forum is down/gone.

SoA is Mike Portnoy's attempt to resurrect his love of progressive metal and give people a band in the creative vein he's most known for. And if his forum is being used by people to slag it, I can't blame him for being angry.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2257 on: September 18, 2017, 09:03:37 AM »
Samsara - around 95% of the 'negativity' and 'bashing' towards SoA on his forum was directed at Derek's behaviour, which a lot of people found petty and spiteful. If MP had simply had a word with his bandmate and told him to tone it down, the 'negativity' would have ended and the discussion would have been on the music. But he didn't. Instead, he wrote a post chastising the users for not entering into the spirit of Derek's "quirky humor".

Which is fine, he can do that, but consistency matters. He can't find it hilarious to have his bandmate randomly decide to hurl unnecessary dig after dig at Dream Theater, and then when he receives some negative feedback, resurrect his usual shtick about 'negative trolls', 'why can't we all just get along?', 'why is everybody so mean and hateful?', and so on. It can't be "quirky banter" when Derek trashes The Astonishing, but criticism of SoA is 'uncalled-for negativity'.

Offline Chris Hinton

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2258 on: September 18, 2017, 09:10:09 AM »
Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.

I loved the place and the people and I will miss it but I appreciate MP keeping it open for so long and allowing us to have a place to
talk music.

Nothing lasts forever...time to move on!

I honestly don't think there was that much negativity in as much as MP was being too sensitive.  Sad it had to end over there the way it did.


Offline Samsara

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2259 on: September 18, 2017, 09:12:06 AM »
Samsara - around 95% of the 'negativity' and 'bashing' towards SoA on his forum was directed at Derek's behaviour, which a lot of people found petty and spiteful. If MP had simply had a word with his bandmate and told him to tone it down, the 'negativity' would have ended and the discussion would have been on the music. But he didn't. Instead, he wrote a post chastising the users for not entering into the spirit of Derek's "quirky humor".

Which is fine, he can do that, but consistency matters. He can't find it hilarious to have his bandmate randomly decide to hurl unnecessary dig after dig at Dream Theater, and then when he receives some negative feedback, resurrect his usual shtick about 'negative trolls', 'why can't we all just get along?', 'why is everybody so mean and hateful?', and so on. It can't be "quirky banter" when Derek trashes The Astonishing, but criticism of SoA is 'uncalled-for negativity'.

Understood. But all I am saying is, the decision for closing a forum is usually not based on one incident. It is generally something that has been decided on due to a building of problems and issues.

Trust me, I am no fan of how Mike Portnoy conducts himself online. However, I do respect, for whatever his reasons, his decision to close his forum, and thank him and his crew (Weymolith in particular) for what they did for that community. When you admin a popular forum, or put your name on it (in MP's case), it becomes very personal. And while I wish MP wouldn't have closed it, and I do very much see your point on what you're looking for (consistency) it isn't as easy as many seem to think it is.

I saw Chris above mentioned MP's "sensitivity." Agreed, he is very sensitive. But at the same time, again, there is a tipping point. And for MP, the last few days I guess was his. And while it is a bummer about the forum, I totally understand him pulling the plug.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2260 on: September 18, 2017, 09:21:28 AM »
Yikes, this thread took a turn. It's a shame MP closed down his forum over SoA feedback...

Offline cramx3

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2261 on: September 18, 2017, 09:37:57 AM »
I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread.  So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it.  If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website.  There must be some cost associated with running that website.  Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore.  There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense.  Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good. 

Anyway, I'm seeing MP this weekend with TSF in NYC, so I'm looking forward to a more positive MP week personally.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2262 on: September 18, 2017, 09:44:15 AM »
I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread.  So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it.  If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website.  There must be some cost associated with running that website.  Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore.  There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense.  Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good. 

Anyway, I'm seeing MP this weekend with TSF in NYC, so I'm looking forward to a more positive MP week personally.

Facebook has also decimated the need for a discussion forum, especially as fans create official or unofficial groups, it's easier for them to congregate on those forums rather than a web-based one. 

The older I get, the more I understand why bands and musicians close official forums - their websites are a place for them to promote their new material, not get slagged on by fans.  Even constructive criticism can become grating as a bunch of armchair quarterbacks argue about what they think is best for someone else's artistic talents.  Yes, it's a good way to keep your finger on the pulse of the fanbase, but at the same time, when is it enough?  In Portnoy's place - he can't win.  Just like the Queensryche split, it seems like fans are completely rabid for one side or the other and 7 years later (in MP's place) fans just can't let go of the vitriol. 

Is some of it his doing?  Absolutely, but he doesn't have to host it and let it occur on his sites. 


PS:  I'm digging the tunes.  Don't care one way or the other about the social media drama.  I just want to rock. :metal

Offline bosk1

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2263 on: September 18, 2017, 09:58:25 AM »
^Agreed with pretty much all of that, Grapp.  Good post.
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Offline As I Am

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2264 on: September 18, 2017, 10:09:41 AM »
Back on topic....I'm digging the two new songs even if they aren't the least bit progressive. Just really good rockin' tunes! Bring on more.........

Offline WheyWaffles

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2265 on: September 18, 2017, 10:26:01 AM »
I saw Chris above mentioned MP's "sensitivity." Agreed, he is very sensitive. But at the same time, again, there is a tipping point. And for MP, the last few days I guess was his. And while it is a bummer about the forum, I totally understand him pulling the plug.

The guy had a bird house, and at some point the bees moved in and it became a productive beehive. Were I a rock star (of some caliber) with that beehive in the back yard of my mansion, I would have left it alone while continuing to pay the yard guy a pittance to trim the grass around it from time to time. When something becomes a bigger thing than you'd originally foreseen (e.g. not just an artist forum, but a long-lasting global community) and it's no longer serving its intended purpose for you personally, just let it be. The forum's existence did Mike no harm--his continual refreshing of its threads and his obsession with the opinions of people on it did. It would have been an exercise in discipline to simply ignore it. Instead, in the end, he Nicolas Cage'd it.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2266 on: September 18, 2017, 10:29:50 AM »
I wished there was a way to thank MP on for his forum. It really was my 'education of the interwebz' Met a lot of cool people, traded many great DT shows, got free stuff, sent free stuff to many forumers, learned so much, discovered so much great music and amazing artists. It was truly a great place and all in all with all the drama and what not it was a fantastic place. If ever MP does read this, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that place.
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Offline nobloodyname

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2267 on: September 18, 2017, 10:31:54 AM »
I wished there was a way to thank MP on for his forum. It really was my 'education of the interwebz' Met a lot of cool people, traded many great DT shows, got free stuff, sent free stuff to many forumers, learned so much, discovered so much great music and amazing artists. It was truly a great place and all in all with all the drama and what not it was a fantastic place. If ever MP does read this, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that place.

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2268 on: September 18, 2017, 10:41:02 AM »
Man, I'm having a hard time thinking of a celebrity less discerning of criticism than MP. You either love him and everything about him or you're a hater bashing him. I almost feel bad for the guy, as he has no choice but to do what he does, it's in his nature, but what he does will always expose him to criticism of all sorts, which he has absolutely no ability to handle.
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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2269 on: September 18, 2017, 10:57:00 AM »
I wished there was a way to thank MP on for his forum. It really was my 'education of the interwebz' Met a lot of cool people, traded many great DT shows, got free stuff, sent free stuff to many forumers, learned so much, discovered so much great music and amazing artists. It was truly a great place and all in all with all the drama and what not it was a fantastic place. If ever MP does read this, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that place.

Join his forum over Facebook and thank him, he always post there

Here’s the forum address https://m.facebook.com/groups/637641669735468
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:10:33 AM by MinistroRaven »

Offline emtee

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2270 on: September 18, 2017, 11:03:33 AM »
I guess it's fitting that the last 2 posts at MP.COM were MP and Wey.


Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2271 on: September 18, 2017, 11:07:30 AM »
I guess it's fitting that the last 2 posts at MP.COM were MP and Wey.

yeah I don't know if that was planned or not (MP sending him a heads up makes sense) but Wey posting in the KeithK thread, on the 10 year anniversary of his death, right before The Forum closes is something that will stick with me. 

Offline Kotwoboy

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2272 on: September 18, 2017, 11:10:32 AM »
..AND ANOTHER THING...

:angry:


..Wait, what ?!?! It's when ?!?!/ Great Scott !!! I SLEPT TOO LONG !!!!

Offline a51502112

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2273 on: September 18, 2017, 11:35:08 AM »
From the man himself:

RIP The Forum

Well, the time has finally come...
I have been contemplating this for a while now and feel it's time to finally move on.
   
In this age of interactive social media outlets, there are plenty of other platforms for us to all gather info and have discussions and I will always be around watching and participating there. (Facebook & Twitter) 
   
The Forum will remain read-only and all threads will remain archived (including my Prog Blog and all of my Hero Of The Day posts from the late 90's and early 00's)
   
I will continue to post tour dates and release dates as they come in as well as keeping the tourography up to date.
 
Thanks MaBrown, Weymolith, Nippett, Painted Skies and all of YOU who were a part of The Forum for almost 20 years!   

Luv, MP 

Offline Kotwoboy

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Re: Mike Portnoy's prog metal supergroup: Sons of Apollo
« Reply #2274 on: September 18, 2017, 11:40:05 AM »
MP continues to be a source of wonderful schadenfreude.