Author Topic: "Genre" Pet Peeves  (Read 2146 times)

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Offline Architeuthis

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"Genre" Pet Peeves
« on: February 28, 2017, 01:04:27 PM »
There are so many genre's in music with good and bad in each. I thought it would be interesting to discuss the annoying aspects of any genre.
 I would like to start with "The Blues"
  There are many fantastic guitar players/musicians in the blues category. From my personal experiences and observations, it seems the ego's are off the chart. For instance, I've heard many blues players say "I've grown out of Rock-n-Roll and matured to the Blues. Or, The Blues had a baby and it's called Rock n Roll".   Another common one: I used to play Rock n Roll when I was a teenager.
 Alot of them seem to think you haven't reached musical maturity until you're an accomplished blues player.  They seem to think they are the most soulful of all genres which is not true.
To me, blues starts sounding the same after a while and can get rather boring. There are a few exceptions though.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:29:47 AM by Architeuthis »
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 01:17:38 PM »
Every pub band doing the tired i - iv - v week after week.

Can you not throw in a vi chord just every now and again ?

Any artist or blues band who rigidly stick to a i -iv -v and only solo in the blues scale over the top.

Basically the song Texas Flood by SRV.

:yawn:

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 01:20:48 PM »
Whatever metal genre it is where every song is in drop C with *constant* arpeggios over the top.

Singer howling at the absolute limit of his range.

And that breakdown section in every song where it's 1/4 time and harsh vocals.

In every song. By ever band in whatever genre that is.

Sigh.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 01:24:55 PM »
Harsh / grunted vocals in folk metal.

I really, really love the genre, but DAMN, I'm really not interested at all in death metal style vocals so there's a lot of bands out there that I enjoy half or less than I would with normally clean vocals.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 02:14:11 PM »
My biggest "genre pet peeve" is how many people try to enforce the definition of what is "progressive" metal. To me, the term can be applied to many different aspects of a band's sound. While Dream Theater is accepted as "progressive" metal because of their use of varied time signatures, longer song format, etc., I don't think that fully encapsulates what "progressive" is in regard to music.

I think the term "progressive" can be used to show varying moods within songs, or significant evolution from album to album in the metal/hard rock style (if we are talking "progressive metal"), etc.

Another annoyance is the insistence of drama. I love what the Banger guys do, and its all very logical. But some bands cross multiple genres within "hard rock" or "metal," and confining them to those lists annoys me.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 02:54:09 PM »
I find a lot of prog bands seem to have a mental checklist of what they should do in their music in order for it to be prog. Which is the absolute antithesis of prog, IMO. And it also renders the whole genre overall pretty dull.
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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 03:07:01 PM »
Breakdowns and loudness wars with most Deathcore.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2017, 03:20:28 PM »
The stupidly fast double bass drums in power metal. In every song. Gets boring very fast.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 03:35:14 PM »
The stupidly fast double bass drums in power metal. In every song. Gets boring very fast.

Any song that pretty much starts at 10.

Full speed. All double bass. Harmony shred solos. As Nigel Tufnel said - where do you go from there ?


Offline pogoowner

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 09:58:20 PM »
I find a lot of prog bands seem to have a mental checklist of what they should do in their music in order for it to be prog. Which is the absolute antithesis of prog, IMO. And it also renders the whole genre overall pretty dull.
Definitely. Especially when they feel the need to always include the stereotypical 10+ minute "epic." And then they say something like, "Oh, we never set out to write a song that long, we just go where the music takes us."

Offline Adami

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 10:05:21 PM »
Female fronted symphonic metal bands where the female singer has this super young sounding innocent "operatic" light lifeless voice and the guitar player growls for no real reason.

Certain bands got it right, like Nightwish, After Forever, Within Temptation, Epica, etc, but hundreds more fall into that above mentioned trap and are beyond boring.

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 11:02:06 PM »
As much as I love that genre, you have a great point. Except NW and WT (post-debut) don't have growls.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 07:32:33 AM »
The stupid breakdown - I think it's called a "drop" - in pop songs where the volume goes down, the highs are scooped out and it fades back in...

Metal songs with either double bass drum through the whole song (not as an accent) or the snare hit on EVERY beat, not as an accent.   Latter day Priest (with Scott Travis) seems to be like this for me.   Which is why I generally listen to Rocka Rolla through Turbo, then Angel through the new one. 

Weedly weedly guitar solos.  I'd much rather listen to something melodic and catchy than just an scalar exercise.  This is why I find the solos on Animalize, and even some of Kulick's solos, to be boring as hell. But I will listen to Ozzy or Rainbow or even Blackmore's Night, just to hear Randy Rhoads or Ritchie Blackmore. 

Overly self-referential songs.  I sort of like the autobiographical songs like "No Surprize" (Aerosmith) or Misplaced Childhood, but some of the metal and rap songs that are more braggadocio, you can have. 

Any song that tries to present gruff, screaming as "emotion".  Sting and Ann Wilson do just fine by ACTUALLY singing.   Bruce Springsteen walks the line on this, but a lot of the "younger" blues players fall into this trap.  I can't name a great example, but the guest vocal by Doug Pinnick on "Lines In The Sand" is reminiscent of this (and why he ruins that song for me). 

Not really "genre", but a pet peeve:  when someone says "Oh, you sing?  Give us a little" and they immediately launch into this melismatic over-emotion.  That's not singing.   Bang out "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road".  THAT'S singing. 

Offline Zantera

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 07:37:05 AM »
With prog i've pretty much always had a pet peeve with technical wankery which is sometimes a really fine line. When you pull off an instrumental section right, it can be amazing and really lift the song, and some of the greatest prog epics ever (The Gates of Delirium, Cassandra Gemini, A Change of Seasons to name a few) pull that off great. It's about the instrumental section really adding to the song rather than taking away from it, or being distracting. It has to fit the mood and tone. And sometimes, more often with newer bands, it feels almost like they look at those prog epics from the most cynical view and go "alright so technical solos go here" without really understanding why those instrumental sections work. So you end up with 20 minute songs that start off well and then completely derail somewhere in the middle because the instrumental stuff doesn't go with the overall song.

But again, it's a really fine line.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 07:46:19 AM »
The stupid breakdown - I think it's called a "drop" - in pop songs where the volume goes down, the highs are scooped out and it fades back in...

Oh fuck I hate that too.

Or the build up back in. No EDM producer can write a decent build up. It's just a repeating riff with a phaser on it and the snare ALWAYS.. ALWAYS...

Goes 1/4 note. 8/th notes. 16th notes 32nd notes...then it all blends together.... goes quiet for 1 beat...then comes back in with the full song.

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

It makes me REALLY appreciate Liam Howlett from Prodigy - because his breaks are really creative and interesting.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 07:50:15 AM »
The stupid breakdown - I think it's called a "drop" - in pop songs where the volume goes down, the highs are scooped out and it fades back in...

Metal songs with either double bass drum through the whole song (not as an accent) or the snare hit on EVERY beat, not as an accent.   Latter day Priest (with Scott Travis) seems to be like this for me.   Which is why I generally listen to Rocka Rolla through Turbo, then Angel through the new one. 

Weedly weedly guitar solos.  I'd much rather listen to something melodic and catchy than just an scalar exercise.  This is why I find the solos on Animalize, and even some of Kulick's solos, to be boring as hell. But I will listen to Ozzy or Rainbow or even Blackmore's Night, just to hear Randy Rhoads or Ritchie Blackmore. 

Overly self-referential songs.  I sort of like the autobiographical songs like "No Surprize" (Aerosmith) or Misplaced Childhood, but some of the metal and rap songs that are more braggadocio, you can have. 

Any song that tries to present gruff, screaming as "emotion".  Sting and Ann Wilson do just fine by ACTUALLY singing.   Bruce Springsteen walks the line on this, but a lot of the "younger" blues players fall into this trap.  I can't name a great example, but the guest vocal by Doug Pinnick on "Lines In The Sand" is reminiscent of this (and why he ruins that song for me). 

Not really "genre", but a pet peeve:  when someone says "Oh, you sing?  Give us a little" and they immediately launch into this melismatic over-emotion.  That's not singing.   Bang out "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road".  THAT'S singing.



I agree with pretty much everything here actually. Especially the drumming part. Lars may not be technically gifted but he knows when to use double bass and accent every hit.

His drumming is pretty creative actually.

Just imagine the first 16 bars of the song Hardwired - only it's got double bass under it AND it lasts the entire song... It would have significantly less impact.


Offline Samsara

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 07:53:39 AM »
With prog i've pretty much always had a pet peeve with technical wankery which is sometimes a really fine line. When you pull off an instrumental section right, it can be amazing and really lift the song, and some of the greatest prog epics ever (The Gates of Delirium, Cassandra Gemini, A Change of Seasons to name a few) pull that off great. It's about the instrumental section really adding to the song rather than taking away from it, or being distracting. It has to fit the mood and tone. And sometimes, more often with newer bands, it feels almost like they look at those prog epics from the most cynical view and go "alright so technical solos go here" without really understanding why those instrumental sections work. So you end up with 20 minute songs that start off well and then completely derail somewhere in the middle because the instrumental stuff doesn't go with the overall song.

But again, it's a really fine line.

:clap:

Well said. Agreed completely.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 07:55:41 AM »
I think Octavarium did it right.

The extended moog solo in the middle is great and melodic.


Offline Architeuthis

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 10:48:12 AM »
I think Octavarium did it right.

The extended moog solo in the middle is great and melodic.
Yes indeed, good call!
 The jam section in Ministry of Lost Souls is kind of the opposite though, except the latter part of gets better the way it goes back into the song.
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Offline v_clortho

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 11:29:19 AM »
The stupidly fast double bass drums in power metal. In every song. Gets boring very fast.

Any song that pretty much starts at 10.

Full speed. All double bass. Harmony shred solos. As Nigel Tufnel said - where do you go from there ?

11

Offline KevShmev

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2017, 05:25:29 PM »
Rap - that whole "talking over someone's drum beat and/or melody" thing.  Easily the least original genre ever.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2017, 05:36:11 PM »
You cannot spell CRAP without RAP.


:hat


Says it all

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2017, 06:00:30 PM »
Rap - that whole "talking over someone's drum beat and/or melody" thing.  Easily the least original genre ever.

I love how it's one guy's job to make a drumbeat for the song and they act like it's so amazing..

" Yo - Producer "Lame Pseudonym" came up with this beat - check it "

Wow you made a drumloop in Reason. How long did that take you ? TWO ? THREE minutes ?

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Offline Lowdz

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2017, 11:54:45 AM »
With prog i've pretty much always had a pet peeve with technical wankery which is sometimes a really fine line. When you pull off an instrumental section right, it can be amazing and really lift the song, and some of the greatest prog epics ever (The Gates of Delirium, Cassandra Gemini, A Change of Seasons to name a few) pull that off great. It's about the instrumental section really adding to the song rather than taking away from it, or being distracting. It has to fit the mood and tone. And sometimes, more often with newer bands, it feels almost like they look at those prog epics from the most cynical view and go "alright so technical solos go here" without really understanding why those instrumental sections work. So you end up with 20 minute songs that start off well and then completely derail somewhere in the middle because the instrumental stuff doesn't go with the overall song.

But again, it's a really fine line.

:clap:

Well said. Agreed completely.

I have no problem at all with instrumental wanker for the sake of it. Prog metal's failing is when they forget to put a song in there at all. And the djenty riff that's just oddly accented low Bs. That's not a riff.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2017, 01:32:11 PM »
Quote
And the djenty riff that's just oddly accented low Bs. That's not a riff.


Never a truer word spoken. They're all trying to outdo each other with the most awkward, most technical, most confusing and un-musical Low B shit.

I hate it.

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2017, 10:10:27 AM »
"Tough Guy / Clean vocals" in modern metal. Usually in some metalcore, melodeath, or even progressive metal nowadays. It almost seems less like alternating the styles to fit a song or make an interesting, dynamic shift, but just because they "have to." It's become so prevalent that it's almost become a requirement to the point that one of them usually ends up being awful. Either you have a song with great growls and weak cleans and or good cleans and really forced growls. Take Trivium for example. Now, I kind like Heafy's cleans, they aren't great, but I think he does well with them, but his growls and "tough guy" vocals are terrible. Either he's doing some weird Hetfield-esque imitation or some sort of pseudo-growls.

Soilwork is another example, although I think Strid is actually good at both approaches, but I think they would be a much more interesting band without the clean, catchy choruses and just go full on with the heavy growls. I'm not sure I could take a full album of Strid's clean vocals though.

The "Beauty and the Beast" vocals that plague oh so many symphonic bands are even worse. Not only do many of those bands sound like bland, carbon copies of each other, but those growls are usually awful. Nightwish does it just fine because Marco doesn't really growl, he just provides more of a counterpoint, I guess, and his vocals aren't that bad.

Offline Mosh

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2017, 10:35:41 AM »
The thing with Nightwish is that Marco is actually a great singer. There was a time when Tuomas did it and that was bad. They also don't do it too much. Marco only gets a few spots on each album and they always work. It's never gimmicky like with other bands.
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Offline Snow Dog

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Re: "Genre" Pet Peeves
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2017, 08:36:01 AM »

Soilwork is another example, although I think Strid is actually good at both approaches, but I think they would be a much more interesting band without the clean, catchy choruses and just go full on with the heavy growls. I'm not sure I could take a full album of Strid's clean vocals though.


Not sure if you're just meaning this in a metal context, but if you want to challenge that assertion, you can check out Strid's side project Night Flight Orchestra. They're an excellent modern take on the classic rock style. They've put out a couple albums, both of which are fantastic (though I like their debut "Internal Affairs" a bit more...). Definitely recommended.