2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[Nick]

- The Eagles played an almost perfect game.
- Brady's numbers were lights out - over 500 yards, 3 TDs, no INTs - but the reality is, he missed some REALLY easy throws, especially in the first half.   There were at least two occasions where he missed Gronk on timing plays down the middle that could have made a difference.

Please tell me how it's possible to reconcile these two statements.

Eagles played an amazing game on offense.

[King Postwhore]

Easy.  While almost playing a perfect game, the eagles defense was not perfect.  The Pats missed opportunities in the first half (Red Zone points missed, Brady missing open receivers).  In the end it was which defense would make a play and the Eagles did.  It was a unreal offensive game from both sides.

[Stadler]

I think King nailed it, but the Eagles made plays when they had to.   The Pats didn't.   

[Nick]

One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.

[pg1067]

My observations:

1. Pink's National Anthem was good, in that she didn't over-extend it.  I think the over/under prop bet was 2:00, and she was well under that.  But she was flat on all the high notes.

2. I felt like the refs did an excellent job controlling the game without littering the field with flags and unnecessary reviews.  Only 7 penalties all game for a total of 40 yards.  I don't remember a single offensive holding call.  Either the players played with discipline or the refs simply let them play.  Either way, that made for a hugely enjoyable game.

3. Only ONE punt all game?  Holy crap!

4. As a whole, the commercials this year seemed WAY better than I can remember in a LONG time.  I particularly liked the Dodge commercial with the Vikings.  There were a couple in the second half that were really good, and they usually shoot their wad with all the good commercials in the first half.

5. Brady is still the GOAT.  I have a friend who says Montana and Unitas were better, but I just don't see it.  Yes, Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls, but isn't making the Super Bowl and losing a greater accomplishment than not making the Super Bowl?  And I think his reference to Unitas is only to make himself feel like he's giving a nod to the pre-Super Bowl era players.

6. Foles played an AMAZING game and was able to do so because his coach trusted him.  A well-deserved MVP award, and props to both of them.

7. I really do hope that this game shuts up the idiots who claim the Patriots' success has been all about cheating and biased officiating.

8. I only saw a couple of minutes of the halftime show because I was grilling at halftime.  From what I saw, JT was BORING AF, and the whole thing was a giant waste of time.  I was, however, quite impressed with how quickly they got the field ready to play after the show was done.

[cramx3]

One stop does not make a game

3. Only ONE punt all game?  Holy crap!

Sometimes in these types of offensive shootout games, the team that does make a stop (the punt isn't the stop I'm referring to) near the end, is the team that wins.  The strip sack and the 4th down TD (one being a stop, the other preventing a stop) were the plays that got the Eagles the win.

[bosk1]

One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.

One stop absolutely CAN make the difference in a game, especially one as tight as this one was.  Both offenses played amazingly well.  I thought, overall, in terms of consistency, NE's offense played better.  And that plays into my assessment of Philly's defense as well.  I thought Philly's defense actually played pretty well.  They just got outplayed by an offense that came to win it.  The only real "flaw" I can point to is that they played very conservatively on defense after getting burned on blitzes early on.  And while we are free to disagree with the decision to play it that way, it was clearly a coaching decision by Schwartz.  I personally don't agree with it, but I can understand and respect why Schwartz played it as he did.  On the other side, I think Philly's offense played very good, but were helped quite a bit by NE's defense just underperforming.  They made mistakes in coverage and missed tackles.  And in a tight game, small mistakes can become amplified and make all the difference.  IMO, NE lost because an abundance of small mistakes added up, and Philly's offense took advantage of them to march up and down the field at will.

[King Postwhore]

One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.

one punt in the game Nick (by Philly) so indeed one big play (ala: a turnover) was important.

[jingle.boy]

7. I really do hope that this game shuts up the idiots who claim the Patriots' success has been all about cheating and biased officiating.

Well, NE didn't get any questionable penalties called to benefit them, and they lost so ...



Although, I do think that Philly's 2-pt PAT on the final TD was PI, but was also fine with the non-call it was so close.

[rumborak]

1. Pink's National Anthem was good, in that she didn't over-extend it.  I think the over/under prop bet was 2:00, and she was well under that.  But she was flat on all the high notes.

Supposedly she had the flu, so given that it was actually a pretty good performance.

4. As a whole, the commercials this year seemed WAY better than I can remember in a LONG time.  I particularly liked the Dodge commercial with the Vikings.  There were a couple in the second half that were really good, and they usually shoot their wad with all the good commercials in the first half.

The Dodge one was fun, definitely. The Jeep one was meh, but the RAM one, man how many people must have been in that line to not say "guys, this is not that great a message". Amazon's was fun, and the Tide one. Matt Damon was probably the only person who understood his ad.

8. I only saw a couple of minutes of the halftime show because I was grilling at halftime.  From what I saw, JT was BORING AF, and the whole thing was a giant waste of time.  I was, however, quite impressed with how quickly they got the field ready to play after the show was done.

Yeah, the performance was really flat. And the sound was really weird too, it was impossible to hear him half of the time.

[cramx3]

Yea, for a lip sync, it was odd that the audio was so messed up.  I was not a fan of the halftime show.  Sure, he's a great dancer and performer, but other than some cool lighting, I just found it very boring.  The girls surrounding him were also ugly, I didn't get that.  The seflie at the end was lame, the Prince part wasn't really interesting (and we discuss here about the Dio hologram  )

[King Postwhore]

Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.

[kaos2900]

The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.

Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.

[axeman90210]

The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.

Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.

I think they explained during the broadcast something to the effect that because he had come down with the ball and started making "football moves" he was considered a runner rather than a receiver by that point and so the hit was completely legal.

[El Barto]

Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.

Eric Rowe got burned a couple of times, as I recall, and at least one of them was a third and long. Having Butler in the first half absolutely would have made a big difference.

And if the reports are true, WTF was he thinking? Not only is he in town for the super bowl, but he's auditioning for his next gig right now. If that's reflective of the kid's judgement it's no wonder Bill wasn't considering him for the long term.

[jingle.boy]

Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.

Eric Rowe got burned a couple of times, as I recall, and at least one of them was a third and long. Having Butler in the first half absolutely would have made a big difference.

And if the reports are true, WTF was he thinking? Not only is he in town for the super bowl, but he's auditioning for his next gig right now. If that's reflective of the kid's judgement it's no wonder Bill wasn't considering him for the long term.

Yeah, that's just a dumbass move on his part.

[King Postwhore]

Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.

Eric Rowe got burned a couple of times, as I recall, and at least one of them was a third and long. Having Butler in the first half absolutely would have made a big difference.

And if the reports are true, WTF was he thinking? Not only is he in town for the super bowl, but he's auditioning for his next gig right now. If that's reflective of the kid's judgement it's no wonder Bill wasn't considering him for the long term.

It may not be true but more than one report is coming out.

[El Barto]

Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.

[bosk1]

The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.

Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.

I think they explained during the broadcast something to the effect that because he had come down with the ball and started making "football moves" he was considered a runner rather than a receiver by that point and so the hit was completely legal.

Yeah, I remember that.  There have been so many changes on this sort of thing in recent years that I'm not sure what the actual rule is.  But I thought that, although they were correct that the "defenseless receiver" rule doesn't apply once he becomes a runner, you STILL can't go helmet-to-helmet without getting flagged.  Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.  That was one of the few non-calls that bugged me at the time. 

[Dream Team]

It was helmet-to-helmet only because Cooks changed direction at the last second.

And since somebody else brought up the lack of PI flags, the OPI by Gronk on his Hail Mary route was as egregious as you can get. He shoved the DB with both hands as hard as humanly possible. There’s gotta be a gif of that somewhere. If he had made that catch and then they converted the 2pt conversion, that would have been very controversial.

[Stadler]

One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.

I didn't say it was a perfect GAME, I said the Eagles played a perfect game.   Not the same thing.  The  Eagles had one chance to win, and they planned it, implemented it, and executed on it.  Anything else, and they would have lost.   They almost DID still lose. 

[bosk1]

To me, the interesting storyline now is:  What does Philly do at the QB position?  Wentz was having a potential regular season MVP season.  But Foles stepped up BIG TIME in the playoffs, played solid in ALL the playoff games, and is now a Super Bowl MVP.  What do you do with that as a coaching staff?  I'm especially curious about that in light of the 49ers' situation a few years ago, and have played the "what if" game about what happens if the 49ers don't fumble two punts in the NFCCG against the Giants and go on to win the Super Bowl against the Pats.  If Alex Smith takes them to a Super Bowl and wins it, and then he gets injured the next season as happened, could Harbaugh have still dealt him off to KC in favor of Kaep?  Interesting dilemma. 

Unrelated to that, but while we're on the '9ers--Even though power rankings don't hold any water anyway, and it is far too early to predict ANYTHING about next season, this made me rage just a little bit:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/NFLpowerrankingsx180204/2018-nfl-power-rankings-way-too-early-offseason-preview
Specifically, I wasn't happy to see the '9ers ranked below the Rams and Seattle after Garoppolo's performance.  And to see the Chiefs ahead of them, even though they will not have Smith next year, sent me over the edge. 

[El Barto]

It was helmet-to-helmet only because Cooks changed direction at the last second.

And since somebody else brought up the lack of PI flags, the OPI by Gronk on his Hail Mary route was as egregious as you can get. He shoved the DB with both hands as hard as humanly possible. There’s gotta be a gif of that somewhere. If he had made that catch and then they converted the 2pt conversion, that would have been very controversial.

It's a well known fact that nobody will ever be called for OPI on a hail mary. It just doesn't happen.

Also, it makes no difference if the player moves into a H2H hit or not. It's always the defensive player's responsibility. Wes Welker's short ass made a career out of getting knocked out because his head was always where most player's shoulders are.

[Stadler]

Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.

Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him".  If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why.  If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it. 

[cramx3]

Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.

Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him".  If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why.  If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.

Yea.  It seems because Bill isn't talking about it, the assumption from many is that this is more of something that Bill is annoyed at, but if he's covering for him because of legal issues, Malcolm really owes Bill and should be ashamed of himself for putting himself in a spot to not play.  Bill did the right thing IMO if this is true.

[TAC]

Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.

Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him".  If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why.  If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.

I don't know about this, guys. Butler not playing was a major development in this game. How is Butler balling on the sidelines, suspended for the SB, benefitting him in any way. Any team that interviews him if FA WILL get the real story.

Curfew/weed gets you suspended for the SB?? For a quarter, sure. But Belichick did his team a disservice by not playing Butler. This game was decided on a handful of plays, and Butler couldn't have made a difference on a 3rd down play here and there? Belichick has been fucking with Butler all year. Could they have still lost had Butler played every snap? Sure. But as great as Philly played, I am one who believes that Butler not playing was the biggest difference for me.

[pg1067]

3. Only ONE punt all game?  Holy crap!

Sometimes in these types of offensive shootout games, the team that does make a stop (the punt isn't the stop I'm referring to) near the end, is the team that wins.  The strip sack and the 4th down TD (one being a stop, the other preventing a stop) were the plays that got the Eagles the win.

Honestly, when I checked the box score this morning, it didn't come as a surprise to me that there was only one punt.  Obviously, there were two reasons for that:  (1) with the exception of the two drives that ended in turnovers, the two offenses advanced the ball far enough that all of the offensive series ended either with touchdowns or attempted field goals; and (2) there were at least three attempted fourth down conversions (all of which were made, I think -- I don't remember either team turning the ball over on downs).  Both teams' defenses played pretty soft, which probably contributed to the dearth of penalties.

Yea, for a lip sync, it was odd that the audio was so messed up.  I was not a fan of the halftime show.  Sure, he's a great dancer and performer, but other than some cool lighting, I just found it very boring.  The girls surrounding him were also ugly, I didn't get that.  The seflie at the end was lame, the Prince part wasn't really interesting (and we discuss here about the Dio hologram  )

Rodney Peete said on his Los Angeles radio show earlier today that he knows people with connections to Prince (e.g., Sheila E.) and that those people were "disgusted" with what Timberlake did with the duet with a video of Prince.

The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.

Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.

I think they explained during the broadcast something to the effect that because he had come down with the ball and started making "football moves" he was considered a runner rather than a receiver by that point and so the hit was completely legal.

There's no question that's what happened.  Cooks caught the ball and started running in circles.  He had established himself as a runner and was no longer a "defenseless receiver."  Stupid move by Cooks and an absolutely clean hit.  If the NFL were to start penalizing that sort of thing, then they might as well just change over to flag football.

But I thought that, although they were correct that the "defenseless receiver" rule doesn't apply once he becomes a runner, you STILL can't go helmet-to-helmet without getting flagged.  Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.  That was one of the few non-calls that bugged me at the time. 

Nope.  Helmet to helmet is ok when it's a runner versus tackler situation -- even if it's the quarterback.  Helmet to helmet is a penalty when the QB is in the pocket or it's a "defenseless receiver" (the sort of block that the Bengals receiver threw at Ryan Shazier might also fall within the helmet thing, but I think it's a slightly different rule).

[King Postwhore]

I would disagree on the helmet to helmet.  It wasn't bang, bang. He was lining Cooks up from far away but those are the breaks.  Calls will always be missed for both teams. 

[El Barto]

Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.

Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him".  If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why.  If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.

I don't know about this, guys. Butler not playing was a major development in this game. How is Butler balling on the sidelines, suspended for the SB, benefitting him in any way. Any team that interviews him if FA WILL get the real story.

Curfew/weed gets you suspended for the SB?? For a quarter, sure. But Belichick did his team a disservice by not playing Butler. This game was decided on a handful of plays, and Butler couldn't have made a difference on a 3rd down play here and there? Belichick has been fucking with Butler all year. Could they have still lost had Butler played every snap? Sure. But as great as Philly played, I am one who believes that Butler not playing was the biggest difference for me.

I certainly agree that Butler's absence was the biggest difference. That's a very different game with him in there. You gotta maintain discipline, though. Everybody who's played for BB knows that. It's ancient knowledge that if you miss practice or a curfew you don't play that week. What does it say to the rest of the team when you start cutting players slack? "These guys are above the rules. The rest of you aren't." Belichick just has it easier than most coaches because 12 is a choir boy. He doesn't have to face that decision of whether or not to discipline his MVP.  Also, in the unconfirmed rumors there was mention of a meltdown with the coaches afterward. Weed probably didn't matter. Missing curfew matters a lot to Bill.  A meltdown will get you shipped off to Cleveland. Factor in missing the team flight, as well. Combine arriving late with missing curfew to get high and you've got a payer with a real discipline problem (assuming any of this is true, of course).

I honestly don't know what BB's problem with 21 is. It certainly looks like he's been down on the guy for a while now. Some weird Parcells holdover, I suspect. LT is snorting coke off of some cheerleaders tits on the 20 yard line and he gets heaped with praise. Simms goes 30/35-4-0 and gets harangued for 2 hours about everything he did wrong. Butler seems to have landed on the shitty side of that deal. 

[TAC]

I get the maintaining discipline thing, but whether one blames Butler (appropriately) or Belichick for Butler missing the game, you just can't jeopardize the SB because of it. If it's Gronk, he doesn't sit the entire game. Apparently, Butler is an ass, but the team needed him and Belichick should've come up with a different plan.

[KevShmev]

Collinsworth is normally good, but last night was embarrassing. The Ertz play was obviously a catch, yet he wouldn't shut up about how it was just like the Jesse James play when, in fact, it wasn't at all.  Ertz caught the ball, became a runner, and only went to the ground because the defender took his legs out.  Once the ball broken the plane, it was a TD and the play was over. Easy call.

Poor Carson Wentz.  He gets hurt and the team wins the Super Bowl anyway, and now he has the pressure of almost having to win one as the starter pretty quickly or he will be viewed as a product of a great team.

That first TD to Jeffery reminded me of why I loved watching him when he first broke into the league. The way he goes up and makes catches is a sight to see.

[TAC]

Collinsworth is normally good, but last night was embarrassing. The Ertz play was obviously a catch, yet he wouldn't shut up about how it was just like the Jesse James play when, in fact, it wasn't at all.  Ertz caught the ball, became a runner, and only went to the ground because the defender took his legs out.  Once the ball broken the plane, it was a TD and the play was over. Easy call.

That's right.

I don't doubt Collinsworth's knowledge, but I cannot fucking listen to him. That voice! He always sounds like he's whining.

[KevShmev]

That, and his man crush on Tom Brady was borderline illegal. I swear, if someone had told him Brady wanted him to suck his balls, Collinsworth would have dropped to his knees and said, "Left or right one first, Mr. Brady."

[TAC]

Not sure I see anything wrong with that.



Brady was fantastic last night. They would've lost 51-3 without him.

[KevShmev]

I lost track of how many receivers he completed passes to that literally had no one within 5-10 yards, but yes, he played really well.