2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[PowerSlave]

Especially given that it is Andy Reid.  I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton.  Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league.  But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid?    GTFO.

*ignoring that stupid ESPN pic, which is obviously trolling*

Reid is widely acknowledged as one of the top coaches in football. Just about everyone puts him in the 2nd tier (Belichick being in the 1st by himself).

Can't win the big game?  Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he can't.

Reid has 11 NFL playoff wins. I am pretty sure playoff games are classified as "pretty big games."  But he can't win those?  The facts say otherwise.

John Elway couldn't win the big game...until he did (twice).

LeBron James couldn't win a championship..until he did (thrice).

There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.

EB, you just described Mike Tomlin as well. There's a few of those guys that are at the very edge of being spectacular coaches, but the game day decision making is something that most of them lack.

[KevShmev]

There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.

I agree with your main point, about there being different aspects of being a head coach, but Reid has won over 60% of his games in 18 years as an NFL head coach. The man knows what he is doing.  That said, he could end up being another Marty Schottenheimer (great coach who never won a Super Bowl either).

If I had to rank the NFL head coaches right now, Belichick is obviously number 1, and then I'd put Reid in the next tier with Carroll and John Harbaugh (who I still think is one of the best, despite them not winning as much the last couple years).

[King Postwhore]

 I've always looked as Belichick as hell, he's made plenty mistakes but it's always been aggressive mistakes knowing that he had to do it this way to win the game and it didn't work out.

There's always been part of Reids coaching that is what El Barto said. He brings structure to a team brings a winning attitude to team but in those moments he tightens up in certain moments.

[Cool Chris]

I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?

I can see it. They are still loaded with talent, and even last year when they underachieved, they were two makable field goals away from being 9-7 instead of 7-8-1. And Seattle is not the juggernaut they were 3-4 years ago.

So they go 9-7, and still come in second in the NFCW. They are not loaded with talent, and that old talent got a year older anyway. Seahawks don't have to be a juggernaut. 10-6 wins that division this year. They will win 11-12 games.

[KevShmev]

I've always looked as Belichick as hell, he's made plenty mistakes but it's always been aggressive mistakes knowing that he had to do it this way to win the game and it didn't work out.

There's always been part of Reids coaching that is what El Barto said. He brings structure to a team brings a winning attitude to team but in those moments he tightens up in certain moments.

Some (too many) coaches coach not to lose; some coach to win.

Belichick coaches to win, as did Mike Shanahan, which is why I always loved him as a head coach.

I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?

I can see it. They are still loaded with talent, and even last year when they underachieved, they were two makable field goals away from being 9-7 instead of 7-8-1. And Seattle is not the juggernaut they were 3-4 years ago.

So they go 9-7, and still come in second in the NFCW. They are not loaded with talent, and that old talent got a year older anyway. Seahawks don't have to be a juggernaut. 10-6 wins that division this year. They will win 11-12 games.

We shall see. I am not saying I think Arizona will win the NFC West - Seattle is the favorite, as they should be - but I won't be the least bit surprised if the Cardinals return to being the team they were in 2015.  Much of it, of course, depends on how well Carson Palmer still plays.  He was starting to show his age a little last year, so we'll see.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I've always looked as Belichick as hell, he's made plenty mistakes but it's always been aggressive mistakes knowing that he had to do it this way to win the game and it didn't work out.

There's always been part of Reids coaching that is what El Barto said. He brings structure to a team brings a winning attitude to team but in those moments he tightens up in certain moments.

Some (too many) coaches coach not to lose; some coach to win.

Belichick coaches to win, as did Mike Shanahan, which is why I always loved him as a head coach.

You can add Sean Payton to that list of coaches who coach to win. I prefer those coaches. Even if you fail in a situation like the ones that these coaches have faced, the risky call teaches a winning attitude to your team.

[El Barto]

There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.

I agree with your main point, about there being different aspects of being a head coach, but Reid has won over 60% of his games in 18 years as an NFL head coach. The man knows what he is doing.  That said, he could end up being another Marty Schottenheimer (great coach who never won a Super Bowl either).

If I had to rank the NFL head coaches right now, Belichick is obviously number 1, and then I'd put Reid in the next tier with Carroll and John Harbaugh (who I still think is one of the best, despite them not winning as much the last couple years).

I think Carroll might well be in the first tier, albeit way down the line from Bill. Reid and Harbaugh are certainly in the top of the second tier.

[wolfking]

Okay my American friends.  I'm doing my work draft league on Thursday and I've done zip research this year.  Have done NFL fantasy the past 3 years and I'm enjoying the game.  Made it to the final last year but just missed out.

So, is there any players I need to get, or do I just follow the usual rankings list?  Is the rankings in pretty good order or any smokies I should look at?

Cheers lads.

[Stadler]

I  lived in Philly (though not at ALL an Eagles fan) during much of the Reid era, and I respectfully say you are over-evaluating his abilities.   

I'm not at all saying "he sucks".   He clearly doesn't.  But that is not to say he's a great coach.  He might have 11 playoff wins, but he has 12 playoff losses, and too many questionable series, like the one in the Super Bowl against the Pats.  They were down by 10 with about 5 minutes, left, and sure, McNabb led them to a touchdown, but they didn't "no huddle" once, and burned almost four of those five and a half minutes in doing so.  This is against a coach that actually LET the other team score a touchdown once, so he could get the ball back and wind down the clock.   

He's won a ton of games, he knows how to establish a solid, consistent approach for his team, but in my opinion, he's not a top tier coach, and back to the discussion of Jim Kelly, if I'm starting an organization, I don't think he's the guy I pick.   

[Dublagent66]

Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year.  They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

All eyes on the Tampa/Miami game. Word is that the game won't be played as scheduled in Miami. Either neutral site or later when both teams share a bye week.

Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year.  They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.

Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.

[Dublagent66]

Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year.  They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.

Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.
[/quote]

Well duh! The only exception would be if Dallas had to play themselves twice.   I'm talking about across the rest of the league.  Division SoS is a bit diluted for obvious reasons.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year.  They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.

Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.

Well duh! The only exception would be if Dallas had to play themselves twice.   I'm talking about across the rest of the league.  Division SoS is a bit diluted for obvious reasons.
[/quote]

I was talking league wide SOS. Cowboys are tied for 10th most difficult with Philly. both Washington and N.Y. have harder schedules.

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/234722/2017-nfl-strength-of-schedule

[TAC]

How does the pre season (last year's) SOS typically compare to the ACTUAL SOS? Has anyone ever looked at that?

[KevShmev]

Okay my American friends.  I'm doing my work draft league on Thursday and I've done zip research this year.  Have done NFL fantasy the past 3 years and I'm enjoying the game.  Made it to the final last year but just missed out.

So, is there any players I need to get, or do I just follow the usual rankings list?  Is the rankings in pretty good order or any smokies I should look at?

Cheers lads.

There is a Fantasy Football thread around here somewhere. Might be better to post in there, since some throw fits about FF talk in the main NFL thread.

My list of players to get, avoid, etc. would be like three pages long.   

[wolfking]

Okay my American friends.  I'm doing my work draft league on Thursday and I've done zip research this year.  Have done NFL fantasy the past 3 years and I'm enjoying the game.  Made it to the final last year but just missed out.

So, is there any players I need to get, or do I just follow the usual rankings list?  Is the rankings in pretty good order or any smokies I should look at?

Cheers lads.

There is a Fantasy Football thread around here somewhere. Might be better to post in there, since some throw fits about FF talk in the main NFL thread.

My list of players to get, avoid, etc. would be like three pages long.   

Cheers mate.  haha, I guess not being American I forget how seriously some people take this game.

[Dublagent66]

Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year.  They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.

Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.

Well duh! The only exception would be if Dallas had to play themselves twice.   I'm talking about across the rest of the league.  Division SoS is a bit diluted for obvious reasons.

I was talking league wide SOS. Cowboys are tied for 10th most difficult with Philly. both Washington and N.Y. have harder schedules.

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/234722/2017-nfl-strength-of-schedule
[/quote]

Yeah, and my original post said "one of the toughest schedules" not THE toughest.  Don't know what you're trying to prove except your fascination with being a nit picky statistician.  Doesn't interest me.

[cramx3]

How does the pre season (last year's) SOS typically compare to the ACTUAL SOS? Has anyone ever looked at that?

It usually doesn't.  Teams change too much from season to season to have a preseason SoS mean anything IMO.

[King Postwhore]

Watching Do Your Job 2.  Goosebumps.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Watching Do Your Job 2.  Goosebumps.

It's amazing how freaking smart and thorough that staff is

[King Postwhore]

Watching Do Your Job 2.  Goosebumps.

It's amazing how freaking smart and thorough that staff is

It's great to see how much preparation they put into a gameplan.

[Dublagent66]

I remember Belichick saying in "A Football Life" episode that no one on that team is more prepared than Tom Brady.  In fact, Belichick has a hard time keeping up when it comes to meetings with TB.

I can see TB eventually becoming the coach for the Pats some day.

[King Postwhore]

I don't think he'll coach. All his side projects that now just coming to fruition is about his healthy way of life and it's building his brand. This year Gronk joined in on what he was doing so we'll see how that works out.

[El Barto]

I've always assumed they're keeping McDaniels around as the heir apparent. Patricia might be a better choice. Brady never struck me as a head coaching kind of guy, despite his knowledge of the game. He just doesn't seem to have that sort of mindset.

[KevShmev]

Great players rarely end up being great coaches.  The former players who end up being good coaches were often times marginal-at-best NFL players.

[King Postwhore]

Yup.   Man I missed the pregame shows.

[black_biff_stadler]

Fuck Marky Mark. Literally anybody other than Goodell or Trump woulda made a better host for this shit.

[TAC]

Falcons fans...don't watch.

[KevShmev]

The Patriots had a felon do this pre-game jerk-off fest?

[black_biff_stadler]

"Unprecedented run of success"? Marky Mark, stick to being a shitty actor and blinding helpless victims in unprovoked assault and batteries cuz the Pats have accomplished nothing Lombardi's Packers haven't.

[King Postwhore]

Thsts the way you start a game.

The Patriots had a felon do this pre-game jerk-off fest?

How about a celebrity fan who left the SB  last year before the comeback.   Fair weather.....

[King Postwhore]

Big stop by KC.

[KevShmev]

Kareem Hunt looks great.  Nice rebound from that early fumble.

[King Postwhore]

 looks like the team in the coaching staff called him down and got his head back in the game.  Yeah, he was excellent.

[TAC]

He almost lost a second one though.