2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[Dream Team]

So in a league where holding or interference could be called every play, NE is the only team that apparently does not do either if the past 2 games are any indication.

[Ben_Jamin]

And like that, Dallas is out....Woohoo...

[jingle.boy]

 okay I saw the replay and when he actually stopped juggling the ball one foot was already out of bounds. So yeah it wasn't a catch.

You and I must've been watching a different replay.  Catch, pull into his body, two feet inbounds, move the ball under one arm to protect and brace for impact, ball never wobbled.

Clearly not a catch.   

[El Barto]

 okay I saw the replay and when he actually stopped juggling the ball one foot was already out of bounds. So yeah it wasn't a catch.

You and I must've been watching a different replay.  Catch, pull into his body, two feet inbounds, move the ball under one arm to protect and brace for impact, ball never wobbled.

Clearly not a catch.   

Wasn't a catch until he pulled it into his body. Just because the ball is kind of-sort of on one hand doesn't mean you caught it and control it. No handy-dandy animated gif for this one, but here are all of the angles. At the 24 second replay you'll see it it him in the right hand and he brings the ball in around the 29 second mark. The next replay is much more clear about how long it took him to control the ball, about he 39 second mark. So no, the ball never wobbled but it took him a second to bring the ball in and his foot had already left the ground.

Great effort, though.

https://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/bills-patriots-nfl-catch-rule-kelvin-benjamin-video-new-england-buffalo/1l2dyvqg6nq8y1uam9cb0eo94x

[TAC]

I love the New England Patriots!

 

 

[jingle.boy]

"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."

Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.

[King Postwhore]

"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."

Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.

Hey I get ya.  But buy the rules of the game and how refs call these replays it's not a catch.  In the 80's that would be an amazing catch and I'd rather have it that way.

It's not and by the rules it's not a catch. Blame technology.
.

[King Postwhore]

So in a league where holding or interference could be called every play, NE is the only team that apparently does not do either if the past 2 games are any indication.

No they just get burned.  Btw Malcolm  Butler was called for defensive holding so you're wrong.

[KevShmev]

Lost in the Patriots getting every questionable call is the apparent slippage in the play of Tom Brady.

In the last four games, he has 4 touchdown passes and 5 interceptions.

In the last five games, after averaging 315 passing yards a game in the first 10 games, he has averaged 248 yards a game.

Father Time is coming...

[King Postwhore]

It's more an injury. Talking to England is his hand and last week she been grabbing it. You don't drop off in the middle of season. It's definitely an injury.

[KevShmev]

That's part of it, though.  Injuries become more frequent and don't heal as quickly as you get older.

In other news, I was stunned to see the final score of Jax/SF.

[King Postwhore]

 I only saw some of it so I'll assume San Fran won.   it is amazing how having a franchise quarterback can change a team from one win to say 8-8.  that team has a real good chance to prosper Lynch can't screw it up.

[El Barto]

Lost in the Patriots getting every questionable call is the apparent slippage in the play of Tom Brady.

In the last four games, he has 4 touchdown passes and 5 interceptions.

In the last five games, after averaging 315 passing yards a game in the first 10 games, he has averaged 248 yards a game.

Father Time is coming...

Maybe. Maybe not. Seems like physically he's still there. This isn't like Peyton where he lost 50% of his arm strength over night. He was overthrowing Cooks. And he's moving around just fine. He just doesn't look comfortable. Sometimes he's waiting too long. Sometimes he's rushing into poor decisions. Sometimes he just throws shitty balls. I doubt he's exhibiting aspects of Alzheimer at 40, so my hunch is that he's just in a funk.

That said, I really wish they'd been able to keep Garopollo around til' next year.

[El Barto]

"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."

Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.

Man, I'd really love to sit down and watch a couple of these plays with you. I'd love to find out exactly when you think a player has made a catch.

[Cool Chris]

Seahawks showed up with a little fight today, and still have life. They aren't making it out of the Wild Card round, even if they get in, and they are going to look a lot different next year. The championship window in the NFL can open and close so quickly.

[DragonAttack]

Found out that both Bills and Ravens games were flexed to 425.  I get it.  The West Coast games mean nadda, so CBS and the NFL saw the need to take two games that mean something, and move them for the purpose of interest and ratings. 

Once again, I get it.  I totally understand.

But.....it's frickin' New Year's Eve.  People had plans for that time.  It's tough enough on some of those attending a game in November and December to have to change hotel reservations, travel schedules, baby sitters, etc.  But now you force them out onto the roads at 8-10 pm on Amateur Night. 

Add onto all of those who head into the city to partake in the evening's festivities at various establishments, those who head in for the fireworks in Balto, etc. etc......what a flustercluck.

[Podaar]

Talking to England is his hand and last week she been grabbing it.

I assume this was voice to text and it's become tiresome (probably to everyone) to ask you what you meant with your posts, but I've read this about 12 times and can make no sense out of it. I'm curious, what did you actually say, King?

[jingle.boy]

"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."

Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.

Man, I'd really love to sit down and watch a couple of these plays with you. I'd love to find out exactly when you think a player has made a catch.

You (and the NFL) and I just have a different interpretation of what constitutes "control".  That's all.

[King Postwhore]

Talking to England is his hand and last week she been grabbing it.

I assume this was voice to text and it's become tiresome (probably to everyone) to ask you what you meant with your posts, but I've read this about 12 times and can make no sense out of it. I'm curious, what did you actually say, King?

Yeah, talk to text.  In New England the talk is that he injured his throwing hand a few weeks ago but you'll never know with N.E.

[Podaar]

Okay, that makes sense. Thank you, sir!

[King Postwhore]

I tend not to check before hitting send.

[jingle.boy]

I tend not to check before hitting send.

Google hasn't mastered the New England dialect yet apparently

[King Postwhore]

I tend not to check before hitting send.

Google hasn't mastered the New England dialect yet apparently

Eh?

[KevShmev]

Found out that both Bills and Ravens games were flexed to 425.  I get it.  The West Coast games mean nadda, so CBS and the NFL saw the need to take two games that mean something, and move them for the purpose of interest and ratings. 

Once again, I get it.  I totally understand.

But.....it's frickin' New Year's Eve.  People had plans for that time.  It's tough enough on some of those attending a game in November and December to have to change hotel reservations, travel schedules, baby sitters, etc.  But now you force them out onto the roads at 8-10 pm on Amateur Night. 

Add onto all of those who head into the city to partake in the evening's festivities at various establishments, those who head in for the fireworks in Balto, etc. etc......what a flustercluck.

I get the frustration, but the NFL got this one right by moving the games the way they did and having no Sunday night game.

Carolina/Atlanta was the most obvious choice for the night game, but that would be completely unfair to Seattle, because Seattle needs to win and have Atlanta lose.  If NO wins during the day and Car/Atl is at night, that locks the Panthers into the 5 seed, which means they could rest their starters and Atlanta would have a gimme win.

[KevShmev]

Mike Pereira
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@MikePereira
 21h21 hours ago
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regarding the Buffalo no touchdown, nothing more irritating to an official than to make a great call and then someone in a suit in an office in New York incorrectly reverses it. It is more and more obvious that there isn't a standard for staying with the call on the field.



Mike Pereira
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@MikePereira
 20h20 hours ago
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Now that another touchdown has been taken away with out clear and obvious evidence, it is time to move on to the catch rule. It doesn't work. I doesn't make sense. Start with the Jessie James play. That should be a catch and a touchdown not an incomplete pass. (more)

[King Postwhore]

Interpretation was much better when it was just a referee's call and we really didn't have a great look at replay. Now that we have HD and we can slow it down to the nth degree it's left up to interpretation.  The way the refs and the office see it, differs from the way fans see it.

That's why even in just this thread there's so many on each side.

[KevShmev]

I totally agree with the take Colin Cowherd just had about this on FSI, which was basically that replay was instituted to fix the egregious incorrect calls, not to try and fix calls that are so close that we can watch them over and over and over and over and still not be sure what the right call is.

Having seen the play again a bunch of times this morning, it was really close.  And plays are not supposed to be overturned unless there is definitive proof.  And there wasn't.

[King Postwhore]

 oh I definitely get that and actually says that in the rules. I think in these refs mind when they see the replay it's indisputable to them. because the ball switches hands and the foot up in the air they say had no control what if he's falling and it just switching hands?

[KevShmev]

I will preface this by saying I do not think there is a conspiracy (since Barto seemed to suggest that I said that, even though I never did), but it's a bad look for the league.  Most already thought they went soft off on Gronk by only giving him a game for attacking a prone player from behind and giving him a concussion, which enabled him to play in the Steelers game (a game they likely do not win without him), and then you have two very questionable calls two weeks in a row that took TDs away from their opponent (one of which would have likely won the game, and the other of which would have changed the momentum of the game).  It's just a bad look for the league, in a time where public perception of the shield is already not great overall for a variety of reasons. 

[King Postwhore]

 you guys should stick to keeping Gronk out of it this isn't about the league it's about the rules. Gronk had no prior history they do wrong a hundred percent yes and one game seems enough if he happens again it should be larger.

This is the problem with the league and their perception because they've come down the Patriots hard now all of a sudden it's a conspiracy. If League had their way, they'd bury the Pats.


That's a problem when you're that good everybody hate you so much that they look into little things like Gronk's suspension as a way to hate the team more.   I get the hate but hate them because your tired of them.

[KevShmev]

I will preface this by saying I do not think there is a conspiracy (since Barto seemed to suggest that I said that, even though I never did), but it's a bad look for the league.  Most already thought they went soft off on Gronk by only giving him a game for attacking a prone player from behind and giving him a concussion, which enabled him to play in the Steelers game (a game they likely do not win without him), and then you have two very questionable calls two weeks in a row that took TDs away from their opponent (one of which would have likely won the game, and the other of which would have changed the momentum of the game).  It's just a bad look for the league, in a time where public perception of the shield is already not great overall for a variety of reasons.

you guys should stick to keeping Gronk out of it this isn't about the league it's about the rules. Gronk had no prior history they do wrong a hundred percent yes and one game seems enough if he happens again it should be larger.

This is the problem with the league and their perception because they've come down the Patriots hard now all of a sudden it's a conspiracy. If League had their way, they'd bury the Pats.


That's a problem when you're that good everybody hate you so much that they look into little things like Gronk's suspension as a way to hate the team more.   I get the hate but hate them because your tired of them.

 

No point in having this convo if you aren't going to pay attention to what I'm saying.

[King Postwhore]

Not you Kev, other fans.  If you're bringing it up and you're level headed, other fully believe this crap.

You already know I hate replay and they should adjust the rules.   But right now the rule is the rule and it's all I change it it is what it is.

[Architeuthis]

The heck with Gronk, he should have been suspended for the rest of the season for that. No excuse for that kind of behavior. He intentionally hurts someone from behind on the ground giving the poor guy a concussion ( which could lead to future problems) .  The NFL only gives him a slap on the wrist, when he should have ended up in jail like anybody else that pulls something like that.
It's funny how a lot of commentators still praise him after showing his true colors.
  Go SEAHAWKS!!!

[King Postwhore]

 those who have has had past histories doing things like that. Gronk has never had something like that. That's why he got a one-game suspension.

[El Barto]

Mike Pereira
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Verified account
 
@MikePereira
 21h21 hours ago
More
regarding the Buffalo no touchdown, nothing more irritating to an official than to make a great call and then someone in a suit in an office in New York incorrectly reverses it. It is more and more obvious that there isn't a standard for staying with the call on the field.



Mike Pereira
‏
Verified account
 
@MikePereira
 20h20 hours ago
More
Now that another touchdown has been taken away with out clear and obvious evidence, it is time to move on to the catch rule. It doesn't work. I doesn't make sense. Start with the Jessie James play. That should be a catch and a touchdown not an incomplete pass. (more)

Pereira is taking the King stance. He doesn't like what replay is doing for the game. What you didn't include (not a jab, it probably wasn't included at your source) was that he thought the call re Jesse James was right, and I'd bet good money he'd say the same thing about yesterday's "catch." The rules might suck, but they were followed properly in both cases.

As for Gronk, I'm sure you'd love to see him banned for life (or traded to Denver in lieu of), and if that's how discipline is to be handled in the NFL then I wouldn't bitch about it. However, you're never going to get fair discipline if there's zero consistency, as is the case now. Gronk, miraculously, got what any other player would get.