2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[TAC]

Apparently the 49ers just released Brian Hoyer. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back here.

[pogoowner]

Hoyer was reportedly originally part of the trade, but Belichick didn't want it to mess with his compensatory picks. So now they'll just sign him, most likely.

[King Postwhore]

 I'll guess there was never more than a second round pick offered before the season started.  What a big chance if Brady gets injured.

[El Barto]

All they could get was a second? Like, when they asked for a second and a sixth John Lynch laughed at them? Cleveland wasn't offering anything better than that? I totally get unloading the kid, they really didn't have any choice, but I expected a little more.

Yesterday this showed up. I have no idea WTF Business Insider knows about football, and they only cited a podcast they I'll never bother listening to, but if Ian Rapoport actually said this the it's pretty clear that Bill played him like a fiddle.
https://www.businessinsider.com/jimmy-garoppolo-patriots-future-quarterback-awkward-2017-10

I never saw much in Garapollo. He might have been pretty good under Belichick, but I reckon he'll just be another Cassel in SF. I also figure Bill suspects as much. He's expecting SF to remain in the running for highest pick.

If I'm Buffalo I'm signing Hoyer off waivers to my practice squad just to be a dick.

[TAC]

But you can sign guys off of practice squads so that won't keep him away from the Pats.

I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.

[Stadler]

SF is acquiring Garoppolo for a 2nd round pick. Interesting.

This is, frankly, baffling to me.  I totally get that you can drive yourself mad by trying to put yourself in the Belichick mindset, but he's 24, he's not breaking the bank financially (I think Brissett was around $500k per year, and he's about $850k), he's expressed interest in remaining a Patriot, and the Pats have seemed to given an indication that he was - until yesterday - being looked at as the future of the Pats.   It's easy to then say "well, there's more to this", but what more is there?  Is this Bill's knee jerk reaction to an opening gambit by Garappolo's agent?    I haven't read the details yet, but these deals are usually contingent on signing the guy at the time of the trade, but in the odd event that Jimmy does still hit the market after the season, does Bill think that he can have his cake and eat it too? 

[Dublagent66]

Pats are the most economic team in the league.  They're not gonna franchise Garapollo with cap money while they still have Brady.  It was a smart move.

[El Barto]

SF is acquiring Garoppolo for a 2nd round pick. Interesting.

This is, frankly, baffling to me.  I totally get that you can drive yourself mad by trying to put yourself in the Belichick mindset, but he's 24, he's not breaking the bank financially (I think Brissett was around $500k per year, and he's about $850k), he's expressed interest in remaining a Patriot, and the Pats have seemed to given an indication that he was - until yesterday - being looked at as the future of the Pats.   It's easy to then say "well, there's more to this", but what more is there?  Is this Bill's knee jerk reaction to an opening gambit by Garappolo's agent?    I haven't read the details yet, but these deals are usually contingent on signing the guy at the time of the trade, but in the odd event that Jimmy does still hit the market after the season, does Bill think that he can have his cake and eat it too?

They were never going to be able to keep Garopollo and Brady. They had to choose one. Trading him now got something (not a lot), whereas letting him walk in FA would get them less. Honestly, if they really thought that he was the future of the franchise they would have traded Brady. Or just cut him after the season. I think they've just been hyping Jimmy's value.

I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.

According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.

But you can sign guys off of practice squads so that won't keep him away from the Pats.

Then make him the number 3. The details don't really matter. Fucking over the Patriots when given the opportunity does.


edit: On a side note, I'm actually kind of excited to see Garopollo get a chance. Really curious to see what he does.

[TAC]

I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.

According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.

Oh, ok, I wasn't sure what I was missing. I mean Rapp mentions it on a podcast. I think it's been clear all along that they viewed him as the future franchise QB.
I don't think anyone handed Rapp any new quotes on the subject.

They already have Schefter to carry their water.

[El Barto]

I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.

According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.

Oh, ok, I wasn't sure what I was missing. I mean Rapp mentions it on a podcast. I think it's been clear all along that they viewed him as the future franchise QB.
I don't think anyone handed Rapp any new quotes on the subject.

They already have Schefter to carry their water.

I've always suspected it was bullshit. I guess now we'll find out.

[TAC]

I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.

Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.

Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.

[Stadler]

I do know this:  what makes a great backup doesn't necessarily make a great starter, and vice versa.  Belichick has ridden 17 years of having a team built around ONE GUY (Brady) and for him to let Jimmy go is clear message that Jim wasn't the guy.    Because part of being the guy would be for Jim to tell his agent "Make it happen.   Somehow, some way, make it happen".  If this did start with him asking for starter money, it's Wes Welker all over again.   And you've seen how well Wes has done for the Patriots in the last five years.

[TAC]

I do know this:  what makes a great backup doesn't necessarily make a great starter, and vice versa.  Belichick has ridden 17 years of having a team built around ONE GUY (Brady) and for him to let Jimmy go is clear message that Jim wasn't the guy.    Because part of being the guy would be for Jim to tell his agent "Make it happen.   Somehow, some way, make it happen".  If this did start with him asking for starter money, it's Wes Welker all over again.   And you've seen how well Wes has done for the Patriots in the last five years.

No it isn't. If Brady retired last year, we'd be watching Jimmy G every Sunday. Jimmy G wasn't asking for starter money (I mean, I'm sure he was), but he's asking TO START. He wants to play. And since Brady isn't going anywhere, this finally came to the head that we've been expecting. This had nothing to do with them determining JG wasn't the guy.

[El Barto]

I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.

Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.

Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.

Was he a $20 million starter guy? If he were then we'd be seeing Brady in his final year as a Patriot and Jimmy would already be cashing checks. Business is business and both Bill and Brady know that. Dumping 12 for 10 was the smart move if 10 were the future.

[TAC]

I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.

Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.

Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.

Was he a $20 million starter guy? If he were then we'd be seeing Brady in his final year as a Patriot and Jimmy would already be cashing checks. Business is business and both Bill and Brady know that. Dumping 12 for 10 was the smart move if 10 were the future.

But this has really been the debate now for a couple of years. Do you take three more years of Brady, or ten years of Garrapollo? It's really an issue of timing than it is in their confidence of JG. He's not Brady. Never gonna be. But with Brady likely to play 2-3 more years, a decision was going to have to be made.

[El Barto]

I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.

Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.

Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.

Was he a $20 million starter guy? If he were then we'd be seeing Brady in his final year as a Patriot and Jimmy would already be cashing checks. Business is business and both Bill and Brady know that. Dumping 12 for 10 was the smart move if 10 were the future.

But this has really been the debate now for a couple of years. Do you take three more years of Brady, or ten years of Garrapollo? It's really an issue of timing than it is in their confidence of JG. He's not Brady. Never gonna be. But with Brady likely to play 2-3 more years, a decision was going to have to be made.

If you think Jimmy is a franchise QB you go with him. Brady might have 3 years, but I doubt it, and as we saw with Peyton the end doesn't creep up on you. It blindsides you.  My hunch is that Brady isn't starting the 2020 season, and if JG were the guy he's be in his prime at that point. I get that Bill's trying to get as much as he can out of Brady, and I can't blame him. They're into uncharted territory already. But I think he sees the big picture.

And I still haven't seen anything in JG's starts that lead me to believe he's the guy people want him to be.

[King Postwhore]

If the Pats had to slap the Franchise tag on Jimmy G. it would have been for $22 Million.

[KevShmev]

Post-Week 8 Power Rankings

Top 10
1. Philadelphia - the addition of Ajayi should help
2. Pittsburgh - can this last?
3. New England - defense is playing well
4. Kansas City - the run D is really leaky now
5. Seattle - getting that OT is huge
6. New Orleans - it's a good sign to win a game when you didn't play well
7. LA Rams - will the O stay hot as it gets cold out?
8. Jacksonville - what is their upside?
9. Buffalo - Benjamin is not that good, but still becomes the Bills best WR
10. Minnesota - will Bradford or Bridgewater return?

NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz - still the leading contender
2. Tom Brady - not finishing drives as much, but still playing well
3. Alex Smith - still no INTs
4. Todd Gurley - dual threat
5. LeVeon Bell - another dual threat

[El Barto]

So does Bill continue coaching after Brady is gone? I often forget he's the second oldest coach in the NFL. The Garopollo deal makes it look like he's burning the candle at both ends, which would make sense. Win as much as you can while you can. At the same time, I always figured he'd want to set things up to keep on rolling after he's gone. He strikes me as the sort that'd be planning 5 years ahead of his exit. Dude's gotta be mindful of the legacy they've built, and I'd assume he'd want it to continue on. A lasting legacy is better than a past one. It's a safe bet their next HC is already part of the organization, but I figured he'd also want the next cornerstone to be there in a QB. Leaving JMD in charge with no QB doesn't seem like his style, but I certainly could be wrong.

[TAC]

Garopollo was the next guy. Brady and his ridiculous last couple of years got in the way.

[King Postwhore]

As I'm driving around I'm listening to local talk radio and I'm hearing all these conspiracy theories on the Garoppolo trade and why Belichick is doing it. What a bunch of crazy idiots. the theory that people come up with are so bleeping nuts makes me turn off Sports Talk Radio.

It's real simple. Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but couldn't because of Brady's elite play. Knowing Garoppolo will not stay because he wants to be a starter and was not negotiating at all with the Patriots for a large pay for a backup while he could be the man in another organization and then to top it make more money.

[TAC]

It's real simple. Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but couldn't because of Brady's elite play. Knowing Garoppolo will not stay because he wants to be a starter and was not negotiating at all with the Patriots for a large pay for a backup while he could be the man in another organization and then to top it make more money.

Damn conspiracy theory.

[DragonAttack]

I know there are fans, but I can't help myself.  So, the 'Clowns' live up to their glorious reputation yet again.  They are tardy in filing the trade papers to the league office by the mandated deadline. 

A.J. McCarron should thank his lucky stars

[TAC]

Yeah Joe. What a glorious story.

[PowerSlave]

Post-Week 8 Power Rankings

Top 10
 Pittsburgh - can this last?

This is a 11-5 team, in my opinion. Good enough for either a 2, or a 3 seed in the playoff picture. They have 2 glaring flaws. The first is their run defense. The second is their lack of production in the red zone.

Their special teams could also go either way. Their punter has one of the worst net averages in the league, their kick coverage has a legacy of being leaky and they demonstrated their occasional tendency of poor decision making by returners in the KC game.

If this team cleans up the distraction issues that have been plaguing them for the entire season (Bell's holdout, Bryant's reinstatement and Bryant's unhappiness), and addresses their flaws then they'll be a contender. If not then they'll lose in the AFCCG once again.

[KevShmev]

So does Bill continue coaching after Brady is gone? I often forget he's the second oldest coach in the NFL. The Garopollo deal makes it look like he's burning the candle at both ends, which would make sense. Win as much as you can while you can. At the same time, I always figured he'd want to set things up to keep on rolling after he's gone. He strikes me as the sort that'd be planning 5 years ahead of his exit. Dude's gotta be mindful of the legacy they've built, and I'd assume he'd want it to continue on. A lasting legacy is better than a past one. It's a safe bet their next HC is already part of the organization, but I figured he'd also want the next cornerstone to be there in a QB. Leaving JMD in charge with no QB doesn't seem like his style, but I certainly could be wrong.

Probably not for long.  The fact that he has stopped stockpiling draft picks and going all-in to win now tells me that he is no longer looking far ahead. When Brady is done, I will be shocked if Bill is there coaching there for more than a year after.

Post-Week 8 Power Rankings

Top 10
 Pittsburgh - can this last?

This is a 11-5 team, in my opinion. Good enough for either a 2, or a 3 seed in the playoff picture. They have 2 glaring flaws. The first is their run defense. The second is their lack of production in the red zone.

Their special teams could also go either way. Their punter has one of the worst net averages in the league, their kick coverage has a legacy of being leaky and they demonstrated their occasional tendency of poor decision making by returners in the KC game.

If this team cleans up the distraction issues that have been plaguing them for the entire season (Bell's holdout, Bryant's reinstatement and Bryant's unhappiness), and addresses their flaws then they'll be a contender. If not then they'll lose in the AFCCG once again.

The seeding will say it all when it comes to the AFC.

NE owns Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh owns KC
KC and NE is a toss-up

All depends on what the 2 vs. 3 matchup is, and then who they face in the AFCCG.

For the Steelers, the best scenario is obviously getting the 1 seed, having KC beat NE in the divisional round, and then getting to host the Chiefs in the AGCCG.

[PowerSlave]

I think they have a chance being a 2 or 3 and going to KC. Otherwise, I'm on board with you.

[mikeyd23]

For the Steelers, the best scenario is obviously getting the 1 seed, having KC beat NE in the divisional round, and then getting to host the Chiefs in the AGCCG.

That's the only path I see for them to get to the Super Bowl.

[Stadler]

I think we have a better chance figuring out what Axl Rose is thinking than Bill Belichick, but if I'm thinking of returning anyway, and my guy (Brady) goes, I think I go.   What's the upside?   You're already the greatest coach of all time; if you win with NE's version of Aaron Rodgers, does it make you "more greatest"?   If you lose with NE's version of Trevor Simian, you tarnish the reputation, even if it's just that little bit. 

Belichick's not the only guy in the organization, and so I don't see a wholesale sellout of the team just for a year or two of glory.  I also am not of the opinion that this deal is a final statement.  How many times has LeGarett Blount been in and out of New England? 

[El Barto]

I think we have a better chance figuring out what Axl Rose is thinking than Bill Belichick, but if I'm thinking of returning anyway, and my guy (Brady) goes, I think I go.   What's the upside?   You're already the greatest coach of all time; if you win with NE's version of Aaron Rodgers, does it make you "more greatest"?   If you lose with NE's version of Trevor Simian, you tarnish the reputation, even if it's just that little bit. 

Belichick's not the only guy in the organization, and so I don't see a wholesale sellout of the team just for a year or two of glory.  I also am not of the opinion that this deal is a final statement.  How many times has LeGarett Blount been in and out of New England?

Fewer times than Julian Edelman.

I'm with Kev, though. Sure seems to me that he's going all in to win whatever he can on his way out. I always assumed he'd set the team up to continue on without him, and I suppose he still might. That's just not what it's looking like right now. And the upside is being the architect of something that endures.

[Stadler]

Let me ask you this, not as argument, but just throwing out ideas:   What IS Belichick's legacy?  Is it really a suite of players that can continue to win, or is it the system?  Doesn't it sort of go against the Belichick philosophy to just hand over a bunch of players to Josh or Matt and say "run with it"?   

I think the crux of the Belichick philosophy is this:   Be smarter and tougher than the guy across from you, and DO YOUR JOB.  I feel like if you gave Belichick 50 random players and two weeks, he would crush any coach in the history of the game in a best of three (to take out the "Any given Sunday" factor).    Part of the coach's job is to assemble the players they have into a workable unit (well, three of them).  Sure, you stockpile those guys that work for you (Brady, Brown, Edelman, Adam Gostkowski, Wilfork) but you don't marry yourself to them. 

[bosk1]

Yeah, I think I agree with that.  And I'm not saying he is trying to intentionally tank the team when he leaves, but...if the team were to tank after he was gone, wouldn't that sort of tend to prove that the team has owed this era of success more to Belichick than anything else?

[T-ski]

DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.

[cramx3]

DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.

Damn that is terrible

[King Postwhore]

DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.

Ah no.  Man what a shame.  Maybe this pliability thing Brady talks about all the time is really true.  So many people get hurt in football these days without taking a hit.