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Author Topic: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension  (Read 18691 times)

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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - World Series - Astros vs. Dodgers GAME 7
« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2017, 09:47:01 PM »
In early voting, Yu Darvish is leading the vote for Astros WS MVP.  Oh well, game five was an all time classic at least.
     

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - World Series - Astros vs. Dodgers GAME 7
« Reply #176 on: November 01, 2017, 10:03:17 PM »
A bit of a letdown after an otherwise phenomenal series. One for the ages though. Congrats Astros!
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Offline dparrott

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - World Series - Astros vs. Dodgers GAME 7
« Reply #177 on: November 04, 2017, 01:53:14 PM »
Astros found the Dodgers weakness: low inside pitches.  They fell for it all through game 7.  Yea Darvish didn't do his part, but the offense choked also.

Well, at least the Dodgers got there and went to game 7.  That's a huge step from past years.
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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - World Series - Astros vs. Dodgers GAME 7
« Reply #178 on: November 04, 2017, 05:54:08 PM »
In early voting, Yu Darvish is leading the vote for Astros WS MVP.   

 :lol

Wow did he suck!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #180 on: November 07, 2017, 02:40:44 PM »
Just heard that. Damn.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #181 on: November 07, 2017, 03:31:21 PM »
Same... man he was loved here.  He ought to be a first ballot HOF'r   :sad:
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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #182 on: November 07, 2017, 03:32:23 PM »
He ought to be a first ballot HOF'r   :sad:

Without question.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online King Postwhore

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #183 on: November 07, 2017, 03:47:03 PM »
He was a beast.  No doubt.
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #184 on: November 10, 2017, 12:48:28 AM »
There's a part of me that still doesn't believe that the Astros won the World Series. So damn proud of them.

Offline T-ski

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #185 on: November 10, 2017, 12:11:38 PM »
As a Brewers fan, I'm very happy that our GM is partially responsible for building the current Astros roster.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #186 on: November 10, 2017, 02:32:54 PM »
Hey Bro, there is a creepy video a Bro posted on youtube of his watching Halliday's plane go down and finding the wreckage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttf_EzEkxBk
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #187 on: December 09, 2017, 09:58:17 PM »
Derek Jeter just enhanced his legacy as a Yankee.

Oh, wait, he's the owner of the Marlins.  Something smells fishy.  :-\
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Online King Postwhore

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #188 on: December 09, 2017, 10:34:53 PM »
Red Sox response to the signing.

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #189 on: December 10, 2017, 05:34:17 AM »
 :rollin


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #190 on: December 10, 2017, 05:47:30 AM »
:rollin

Tim,  I got that picture from Twitter. :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #191 on: December 10, 2017, 05:51:59 AM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #192 on: December 10, 2017, 04:29:25 PM »
Indeed  :lol
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #193 on: December 10, 2017, 06:20:01 PM »
No, you suck at interneting. :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #194 on: January 18, 2019, 10:58:54 AM »
Just wanted to pop in to say that Barry Bonds is arguably the greatest baseball player of all time, there is objectively zero direct evidence that he ever cheated, and plenty of evidence that, if given the chance, Samsara would have his babies.
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #195 on: January 22, 2019, 08:19:22 PM »
Glad to see Mariano get in today with 100% of the vote. He certainly deserved it (as did a number of players who came before him). I'm glad it puts this "nobody gets in unanimously" stuff to bed.
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Offline Chris Hinton

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #196 on: January 22, 2019, 10:32:35 PM »
Edgar Martinez vs his HoF 2019 Classmates


Name            PA   AB   H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  SO   TB     BA     OBP     SLG     OPS
Roy Halladay    19   18   8   2   0   1    4   1   5   13   0.444   0.474   0.722   1.196
Mike Mussina    83   75  23   5   2   5   17   5   9   47   0.307   0.337   0.627   0.964
Mariano Rivera  23   19  11   3   0   2    6   3   4   20   0.579   0.652   1.053   1.705
TOTALS         125  112  42  10   2   8   27   9  18   80   0.375   0.408   0.714   1.122

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #197 on: January 22, 2019, 11:31:03 PM »
The whole unanimous thing is, or hopefully now was, one of the more annoying things in professional sports.

As a local I am glad to see Edgar get in. He meant so much to this franchise, was always a solid guy in our community, and let's face it, Mariners fans haven't had much to feel good about since their inception. He doesn't hit that double in 1995, he might not be in the Hall, and the team might not even be in Seattle today.

Regarding the Hall on the whole, I tend to err on the FAME side and this is becoming a Hall of Pretty Darn Good Players. Which I guess is fine if that's what it wants to be.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #198 on: January 23, 2019, 10:47:40 AM »
So...here's what we got in addition to Rivera (whose election was a no-brainer):

Edgar Martinez:  I have mixed feelings about Edgar.  A guy with a very good career batting average (.312), but with a only a little over 2,200 hits, barely over 300 homers, and just over 1,250 RBI.  In his 2,055 career games played, he actually played in the field in only 592 of those games.  While I understand that the designated hitter is part of the game, if a guy who only played in the field in less than 30% of his games is going to make the HOF, I need him to have better offensive numbers (and, in particular, power numbers).  On the other hand, his peak years (a 7 year stretch from 95-01) were rather impressive offensively:  1,196 hits, .329 BA, 196 HR (a number that isn't too impressive for the "chicks dig the long ball" era) and 773 RBI (a number that's really impressive for any era).  He also gets a couple bonus points from me for playing his entire career with a single team.  At the end of the day, I think he barely deserves to be in.

Roy Halladay:  Although he won two Cy Young Awards, he had barely over 200 wins and a 3.38 career ERA and barely more than 2,100 strikeouts in a 16 season career.  Just not enough here.

Mike Mussina:  Another guy who benefitted from a long career.  Belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the HOF.  Never won a CYA and never was regarded as a guy you feared facing.

We also got two players elected by the Veterans' Committee:

Lee Smith:  I think he's deserving, but more because of his role as part of the second wave of relief pitchers who really turned the role into that of "closer."  His numbers, while certainly impressive, are not mind-blowing.  I also view him somewhat negatively for changing teams virtually every year after leaving the Cubs.

Harold Baines:    This guy might be the ultimate example of an accumulator.  In 22 seasons, he was an all-star only 6 times, and he never led the league in anything, with the exception of one year in which he led in slugging percentage.  Despite his longevity, he was sell shy of 3,000 hits and 400 HR.  My comments above about Edgar Martinez also apply here since Baines started as a DH in more than half his career games.  About the only argument I can see for his induction is that his 1,628 RBI are the most of any HOF eligible player who wasn't implicated in the PED witch hunt.  If that's all you've got going for you, I don't think you belong in the HOF.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #199 on: January 23, 2019, 11:07:09 AM »
That's a pretty good summary of my feelings, as it seems like we have similar views of the Hall and our own criteria. It's hard for me to view Edgar outside of the Seattle fan's mindset. The city has been pulling for him for years, and while much of it is predicated on his numbers, a lot is also an emotional reaction to him being the franchise's second most important player and a generally liked and admired guy.

I get baseball is big on numbers but I get turned off when people get in to the mindset of "He's the only player with XXX HRs, YYY RBI, and ZZZ OPS who isn't in the Hall" or "Dave Smith isn't in the Hall but has a higher WAR than Bob Jones who is."
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #200 on: January 23, 2019, 11:14:46 AM »
I get baseball is big on numbers but I get turned off when people get in to the mindset of "He's the only player with XXX HRs, YYY RBI, and ZZZ OPS who isn't in the Hall" or "Dave Smith isn't in the Hall but has a higher WAR than Bob Jones who is."

With the exception of guys with overwhelming numbers (e.g., 3,000+ hits AND 400+ HR AND 1,500+ RBI), I think you need to have peak era like Edgar Martinez had from 95-01.  You had to be a guy whom other teams feared.  "We need to get this guy out so that Edgar doesn't come to the plate with two men on base."  "We need to score now -- before Rivera comes into the game -- or we're screwed."  Comparing numbers of guys from different eras is dangerous -- as is the tendency to focus on things like HR to the exclusion of other important numbers like doubles.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #201 on: January 23, 2019, 11:23:15 AM »
Excellent point. Numbers can be deceptive over a century. And in some ways we have to defer to their contemporaries. I don't know if Edgar was "feared" by pitchers but I guarantee there weren't many guys Jack McDowell wanted to pitch to less once Griffey singled and moved Cora to third.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #202 on: January 23, 2019, 01:31:23 PM »
re: HOF

Disclaimer - I am a diehard Yankees fan. Born in the mid-70s, first game at Yankee Stadium in 1979, season ticket holder in 1998. Lifelong fanatic of the Bronx Bombers who supports them religiously. All that said, only ONE player deserved to get in the Hall this year: MARIANO RIVERA.

And congrats to Mo for the honor. It was an honor watching him pitch for the Yankees and do it with dominance and class throughout his career.

As for the others, congrats (and congrats to the late Halladay's family), but here's why if I was a voter, I couldn't do it:

Moose - GREAT pitcher, loved him. But aside from a couple of seasons, he was never dominant. He was never "the best" at his craft, even for a stretch. he was always, generally, aside from a couple seasons, a clear #2 pitcher. Killer competitor, reinvented himself well to keep his career going, went out on top (20 wins, 3.3 ERA his final season), etc. I love the guy, and I'm a fan. But in my book, he's simply a great ball player. Not one of the greatest ever. Simple as that.

Halladay - He had a dominance streak that Moose never had. That said, he also didn't have the consistency or long tenure that a guy like Moose had. This is going to sound wrong, but I think this is a sympathy induction, and its wrong. I respected Halladay's career. Man, in his dominant streak, that guy was phenomenal. But looking at his entire career, I don't see Hall of Famer. I see a #1 starter who developed a bit late, and never really was able to reinvent himself at the end. He flamed out, but he did so too quick. Had he had another three seasons of dominance, then I think its a different story. But his career clearly, at least to me, is not HOF-worthy. But then again, I don't vote, so no one cares.

Martinez - NOPE. I have softened over the years on his case. But the fact remains, other than his first two seasons, the guy never played the field. He essentially rested in the dugout and then hit. He hit well for sure. HOF-level hitter (borderline) that didn't accumulate the numbers I would have been OK with to put him in. Not a lot of hitting milestones achieved for a guy that all he did was hit. I'm not doggin' him -- he was a great hitter, a great Mariner, and despite being a Yankees fan, I respected the hell out of his bat. But he was essentially a part time player. Just like I didn't think Harold Baines should be in, Edgar should not be in.

Here's my question as a Yankees fan. Don Mattingly was my second favorite Yankee (Reggie, Donnie Baseball, Derek, and now Judge). I am pretty firm that Donnie Baseball, regardless of my love for him, is NOT a Hall of Famer. But if you let in guys like Edgar who didn't play the field, why was Mattingly not voted in, given his ELITE level glove and defensive awards, along with a lifetime .307 average and MVP, and his short, but excellent prime?

Again, if you're watering down the Hall of Fame, to be the Hall of Very Good (which is happening), then how are Baines and Edgar in, and not Mattingly? It is a travesty.

To be clear, I don't think any of those guys SHOULD be in. Im saying if you let Edgar in, and Baines, WHY THE HELL was Mattingly not voted in. It's not right.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #203 on: January 23, 2019, 02:54:09 PM »
totally unrelated to anything, but Miller was outbid for the naming rights by American Family Insurance in Milwaukee so Miller Park is getting a new name.

everyone in Wisconsin is revolting.
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Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #204 on: January 23, 2019, 03:02:35 PM »
I have a couple of friends in Wisconsin, and, I do find them revolting ;)
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #205 on: January 23, 2019, 03:30:59 PM »
totally unrelated to anything, but Miller was outbid for the naming rights by American Family Insurance in Milwaukee so Miller Park is getting a new name.

everyone in Wisconsin is revolting.

This shit has to stop. American Family Insurance Park? REALLY?

I get the naming rights thing and the revenue. But there should be some sort of limit. Like every park needs a name, and the naming rights is for a precursor to it or extension. For example:

Brewers Field at American Family Insurance Park

American Family Insurance Field at Brewers Park

SOMETHING to retain the actual name of the place, without it being renamed every five, six years.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #206 on: January 23, 2019, 06:14:42 PM »
Voters are morons.

They continue to show that they don't give two shits about defense.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #207 on: January 23, 2019, 06:32:05 PM »
re: HOF

Disclaimer - I am a diehard Yankees fan. Born in the mid-70s, first game at Yankee Stadium in 1979, season ticket holder in 1998. Lifelong fanatic of the Bronx Bombers who supports them religiously. All that said, only ONE player deserved to get in the Hall this year: MARIANO RIVERA.

If I were a voter, I'd have voted for Rivera, Martinez, Bonds and Clemens.


Here's my question as a Yankees fan. Don Mattingly was my second favorite Yankee (Reggie, Donnie Baseball, Derek, and now Judge). I am pretty firm that Donnie Baseball, regardless of my love for him, is NOT a Hall of Famer. But if you let in guys like Edgar who didn't play the field, why was Mattingly not voted in, given his ELITE level glove and defensive awards, along with a lifetime .307 average and MVP, and his short, but excellent prime?

Again, if you're watering down the Hall of Fame, to be the Hall of Very Good (which is happening), then how are Baines and Edgar in, and not Mattingly? It is a travesty.

To be clear, I don't think any of those guys SHOULD be in. Im saying if you let Edgar in, and Baines, WHY THE HELL was Mattingly not voted in. It's not right.

Interesting point and, while I don't like to play "if A is in, then so should B," it's not an invalid point.

As I mentioned previously, I think Martinez was a wobbler, but I ultimately came around to agreeing that he should be in for the reasons I already mentioned.  Baines, on the other hand, is an objectively poor selection (not quite as egregious as Phil Rizzuto, but pretty bad).

As for Mattingly, he had the obvious disadvantage of having his career sandwiched between the Yankees' 1981 World Series loss to the Dodgers and the 1996 Series, so he only played in one postseason series (the 1995 ALDS in which the Yankees lost in 5 games to Seattle -- a series in which, as a last hurrah to his career, he hit .417 with 6 RBI, 1 HR, 4 doubles and a 1.148 OPS).

In the regular season, Mattingly won 1 MVP, had more than 200 hits three times (leading the league in that category twice), and had more than 180 hits in 6 consecutive and 7 total seasons.  His power numbers are nothing special:  222 HR and 1099 RBI.  But he led the league in doubles thrice and finished with 442 in his career (a number that is outside the top 100 all-time).  He was a 6 time all-star and won 9 gold gloves (with a career .996 fielding percentage).

In my view, Mattingly is also a wobbler.  I wouldn't object if he got in, but I don't feel awful that he hasn't made it in.  I think the best argument is how he compares to other guys.  I'd say he's about as deserving as Edgar, more deserving than a guy like Craig Biggio, and far more deserving than Baines.


everyone in Wisconsin is revolting.

Oh come now...there must be a few decent folks!   ;D


totally unrelated to anything, but Miller was outbid for the naming rights by American Family Insurance in Milwaukee so Miller Park is getting a new name.

everyone in Wisconsin is revolting.

This shit has to stop. American Family Insurance Park? REALLY?

I get the naming rights thing and the revenue. But there should be some sort of limit. Like every park needs a name, and the naming rights is for a precursor to it or extension. For example:

Brewers Field at American Family Insurance Park

American Family Insurance Field at Brewers Park

SOMETHING to retain the actual name of the place, without it being renamed every five, six years.

Dodger Stadium
Yankee Stadium
Fenway Park
Wrigley Field

There might be a few others, but pretty much everything else is stupid.  They just renamed the soccer field where the Chargers play "Dignity Health Sports Park" (after having opened as "Home Depot Center," which was changed a mere six years ago to "StubHub Center" and which was called "ROKiT Field at StubHub Center," but only while the Chargers were playing).
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Online Dream Team

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #208 on: January 24, 2019, 10:54:21 AM »
re: HOF

Disclaimer - I am a diehard Yankees fan. Born in the mid-70s, first game at Yankee Stadium in 1979, season ticket holder in 1998. Lifelong fanatic of the Bronx Bombers who supports them religiously. All that said, only ONE player deserved to get in the Hall this year: MARIANO RIVERA.

And congrats to Mo for the honor. It was an honor watching him pitch for the Yankees and do it with dominance and class throughout his career.

As for the others, congrats (and congrats to the late Halladay's family), but here's why if I was a voter, I couldn't do it:

Moose - GREAT pitcher, loved him. But aside from a couple of seasons, he was never dominant. He was never "the best" at his craft, even for a stretch. he was always, generally, aside from a couple seasons, a clear #2 pitcher. Killer competitor, reinvented himself well to keep his career going, went out on top (20 wins, 3.3 ERA his final season), etc. I love the guy, and I'm a fan. But in my book, he's simply a great ball player. Not one of the greatest ever. Simple as that.

Halladay - He had a dominance streak that Moose never had. That said, he also didn't have the consistency or long tenure that a guy like Moose had. This is going to sound wrong, but I think this is a sympathy induction, and its wrong. I respected Halladay's career. Man, in his dominant streak, that guy was phenomenal. But looking at his entire career, I don't see Hall of Famer. I see a #1 starter who developed a bit late, and never really was able to reinvent himself at the end. He flamed out, but he did so too quick. Had he had another three seasons of dominance, then I think its a different story. But his career clearly, at least to me, is not HOF-worthy. But then again, I don't vote, so no one cares.

Martinez - NOPE. I have softened over the years on his case. But the fact remains, other than his first two seasons, the guy never played the field. He essentially rested in the dugout and then hit. He hit well for sure. HOF-level hitter (borderline) that didn't accumulate the numbers I would have been OK with to put him in. Not a lot of hitting milestones achieved for a guy that all he did was hit. I'm not doggin' him -- he was a great hitter, a great Mariner, and despite being a Yankees fan, I respected the hell out of his bat. But he was essentially a part time player. Just like I didn't think Harold Baines should be in, Edgar should not be in.

Here's my question as a Yankees fan. Don Mattingly was my second favorite Yankee (Reggie, Donnie Baseball, Derek, and now Judge). I am pretty firm that Donnie Baseball, regardless of my love for him, is NOT a Hall of Famer. But if you let in guys like Edgar who didn't play the field, why was Mattingly not voted in, given his ELITE level glove and defensive awards, along with a lifetime .307 average and MVP, and his short, but excellent prime?

Again, if you're watering down the Hall of Fame, to be the Hall of Very Good (which is happening), then how are Baines and Edgar in, and not Mattingly? It is a travesty.

To be clear, I don't think any of those guys SHOULD be in. Im saying if you let Edgar in, and Baines, WHY THE HELL was Mattingly not voted in. It's not right.

Baines was a travesty. However, regarding Martinez I would like to point out that he was kept in the minors for no good reason, and was already a HOF-worthy hitter at that age. So his counting stats suffered through no fault of this own. Actually the "no good reason" was they didn't want to mess with Jim Presley  ::).

And of course Mo was a no-brainer, and thanks to him we can now be free of the "unanimous" discussion.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2017 MLB Thread - The Astros' Ascension
« Reply #209 on: January 24, 2019, 11:32:56 AM »
However, regarding Martinez I would like to point out that he was kept in the minors for no good reason, and was already a HOF-worthy hitter at that age. So his counting stats suffered through no fault of this own.

Huh?  He was "already a[n] HOF-worthy hitter" at what age?  Certainly not as a minor leaguer.  The Mariners signed Edgar Martinez to a minor league contract in December 1982.  He played single-A ball in 1983 and 1984 (hitting .173 in 1983 with only 126 plate appearances in 32 games, and .303 as a full-time player in 1984).  He played in AA and AAA from 1985-89, with stints in Seattle (total of 92 games) in in 1987-89 (although he hit .372 in 13 games as a September call-up in 1987, his numbers during those three seasons were not otherwise notable).  His career minor league numbers are strong, but not exceptional (although his career AAA BA is .344, with 21 HR, 167 RBI and 68 doubles in 276 games).  His first full-time MLB season, as a 27 year old, was 1990.  While that's a bit late by today's standards, it wasn't particularly unusual at that time.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung