- " The Astonishing " - One Year -- er, SEVEN YEARS On.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Wolfking's impressions and observations reminded me of an experience I had here at DTF a couple of years ago.

I decided to listen to BTBAM's discography and make comments (Wolfking is not a fan of TA and I am not a fan of BTBAM, hence the similarity). However, unlike Wolfking's, my impressions were not well received and I was discouraged from continuing. 

I didn't continue.

You're not alone with this. Apart from a couple isolated songs here and there, my only experience with BTBAM was trying to listen to Coma Ecliptic in full back when it was released. I liked the instrumentation, but boy was it hard to get through it, specially with the vocals. Tried two different times and I still could not finish the whole album (and it's a lot shorter than TA). Sometimes, some music is just not for us. I have the same experience whenever I try listening to anything with John Arch on vocals. It's not possible.

I understand. John Arch is complicated 

John Arch is amazing!

[wolfking]

I'm so grateful at the respect you have all shown me to put the time in and read my live impressions.  I'm out at the moment but will follow up comments later when I'm home on my laptop.

[wolfking]

Best thing I read in months–thanks Kade!

Thanks James, glad you enjoyed it! 

[wolfking]

The problem I have is that the ideas are all there, but so far it's like they've made the conscious decision to spread as many different ideas across the album in some feat that that is what a rock opera consists of.  They've used the idea of what they think it should be, and forgotten about the songs I think.  Like they've lost focus on the songs and just focused on the elements they think it should be.

This is very well stated.  You've articulated it in a way that I just didn't have the energy to do other than "this album is tripe".

the hovering sojourn - yeah cool

Our New World - Harem Scarem style riff here, nice. 

Maybe that's why this is my favorite song of the album!!

Astonishing - Brother can you hear me, oh shit!!! 
Ah fuck, the brother melody.  What an awful, awful finish to the album.  Just awful.

And now you know why I wanted to walk out of the concert when this - THIS - was the encore.  I stuck around hoping/praying they might play SOMETHING more like UAGM, or TSCO, or any 6-8 minute song.  Fuck, I'd have even taken Just Let Me Breathe!  Anything but to end the night having done JUST this album. When they approached the front of the stage for their group waves and bow, I bolted in disgust. I've never hated a concert so much in my life.

Oh boy......I would imagine how livid you would have been after this concert.  For that to be the closing of a concert....jeez.  I mean, even just the band playing this whole thing and nothing else is certainly a ballsy feat but that certainly would have been such a disappointing experience from an all time favorite band.

Harem Scarem instantly came to mind with that song.  Definitely something refreshing and different for the band in general.

Those thoughts in your first quote just kept coming back to me running through that first disc.  I'm glad I was able to articulate it that others can relate.  Just a total swing and a miss.  Or, they had the gameplan but just didn't execute.

Glad someone picked up on the Sojourn joke there. 

[wolfking]

Kade, I actually read everything you wrote, I think. I too have struggled with TA. I tried it a few times and it just didn't speak to me and I share a lot of your criticisms and such.

That said, you've inspired me to want to try to and give it a good relisten too. However, I have no idea when I'm going to have the 45 hours free to do it.

Thanks man.  Yeah, it's a tough slog and feels so much longer than it actually is.  I was hoping to have more appreciation of it this time around but apart from a couple of brief moments, my initial reactions and thoughts on the album still stand.

[wolfking]

This is what my second listen to The Astonishing looked like Kade 

Moment of Betrayal - Ah okay, we're hearing a small variation of that melody at the start, so I'm interested.  Oh shit, a metal riff, okay.  Oh wait, 'several years ago, in a foreign town.'  Wait wrong song?

Finally, a fucking chorus, like a strong, DT like amazing chorus, wow, I like that.  2:23, cool section this, James sounds on fire.  Goes into that chorus too, this is a fucking great song so far, easily the best thing I've heard so far.  Don't fuck it up boys!

What a much better second listen.   

[wolfking]

Here's the real abridged version...

More paino.

Loved it Kade, great read.

Thanks Luke.  Yeah, there's a lot of fucking piano. 

[Madman Shepherd]

The problem I have is that the ideas are all there, but so far it's like they've made the conscious decision to spread as many different ideas across the album in some feat that that is what a rock opera consists of.  They've used the idea of what they think it should be, and forgotten about the songs I think.  Like they've lost focus on the songs and just focused on the elements they think it should be.

This is very well stated.  You've articulated it in a way that I just didn't have the energy to do other than "this album is tripe".

the hovering sojourn - yeah cool

Our New World - Harem Scarem style riff here, nice. 

Maybe that's why this is my favorite song of the album!!

Astonishing - Brother can you hear me, oh shit!!! 
Ah fuck, the brother melody.  What an awful, awful finish to the album.  Just awful.

And now you know why I wanted to walk out of the concert when this - THIS - was the encore.  I stuck around hoping/praying they might play SOMETHING more like UAGM, or TSCO, or any 6-8 minute song.  Fuck, I'd have even taken Just Let Me Breathe! 

That's how you know an album is bad, when you want to hear Just Let Me Breathe as a palate cleanser.

[twosuitsluke]

Here's the real abridged version...

More paino.

Loved it Kade, great read.

Thanks Luke.  Yeah, there's a lot of fucking piano. 

I know, but even more paino, right?

[jingle.boy]

 

I missed the typo the first and second go around.

Yes Luke... that is the perfect review.

[twosuitsluke]

I missed the typo the first and second go around.

Yes Luke... that is the perfect review.

 

It's even more perfect because he's aussie!

[wolfking]

Here's the real abridged version...

More paino.

Loved it Kade, great read.

Thanks Luke.  Yeah, there's a lot of fucking piano. 

I know, but even more paino, right?

Oh fuck, I missed that too!  How subliminally relevant! 

[emtee]

I followed through last night. I put the headphones on with a firm resolve to listen from start to finish. I made it all the way until maybe song 7 and then I became antsy. Absolutely nothing grabbed, wowed me or had me excited for what was next. Then I began listening to the beginning of the next few songs and getting a minute or two into each before hitting the skip button. 3/4 of the way through I gave up. It is what it is. This album will never work for me.

[twosuitsluke]

I surprised myself that 4 songs from TA made my top 100, but here we are!

[crystalstars17]

its certainly a James and Jordan album.

Again, why I love it so.

I think it's a beautiful performance by James. It shows both his strengths as a vocalist to perfection - the pure, angelic sound of his natural voice (when he's not pushing, using a gravely effect, or singing as Nefaryus) and the depth of sensitivity and emotional intelligence that he brings to a performance.

And I don't mind all the piano. I enjoy all of Jordan's playing but the moments when he goes into classical pianist mode are always a treat. In TA, the piano is almost a character in the music itself, like a musical narrator. Compositionally, it's the common thread that weaves it all together.

Story aside (because I can't disagree with some of the criticisms of the storytelling, which reflect why it drags sometimes and has nothing to do with the music), this is not an album you'd reach for when you want to rock out. This is more of an introspective piece. At the very least it sets a nice atmosphere in the car or in the house. At the very most it's a one of a kind musical journey.

[jingle.boy]

its certainly a James and Jordan album.

Again, why I love it so.

I think it's a beautiful performance by James. It shows both his strengths as a vocalist to perfection - the pure, angelic sound of his natural voice (when he's not pushing, using a gravely effect, or singing as Nefaryus) and the depth of sensitivity and emotional intelligence that he brings to a performance.

And I don't mind all the piano. I enjoy all of Jordan's playing but the moments when he goes into classical pianist mode are always a treat. In TA, the piano is almost a character in the music itself, like a musical narrator. Compositionally, it's the common thread that weaves it all together.

Yeah, but what about all that paino.

Story aside (because I can't disagree with some of the criticisms of the storytelling, which reflect why it drags sometimes and has nothing to do with the music), this is not an album you'd reach for when you want to rock out. This is more of an introspective piece. At the very least it sets a nice atmosphere in the car or in the house. At the very most it's a one of a kind musical journey.

Spot on.  It's the kind of album for when you're in a good mood, but feel the need to rage on something.  Anything.

[Podaar]

Kade,

I've been busy and haven't had a chance to respond. I read through your thoughts on my phone as you were posting them and really enjoyed reading it. As Ale says, you could take over the Scenes From My Memory thread!  I'll admit, your concerns and dislikes are very similar to mine only you're quite a bit more offended by it.  Yet, I've got a few more.

I can't stand military march music. It's a personal quirk, and sets my teeth on edge...it actually makes me edgy and a little angry. You can imagine how I struggle with TA since Arys (or however they spell it) Theme is plastered all over the place. I'm a little salty just typing this...

The other thing is James's breathy singing is actually really, really bad in my opinion. I've got some personal opinions about him doing it that I won't share. Bosky would ban me if I did. Usually, he keeps it to brief moments where he's trying to project a specific vibe and I can ignore it and even appreciate what he's doing. But, and you know there would be a but, his portrayal of Faythe is off the charts for me. I've actually banished Act of Faythe from my...well, my music player.  If I could gouge it out of the CD without damaging the rest of the CD, I would. In my DT top 100 comparison, it came in dead last for DT's entire catalog...think of that, I'd actually rather listen to Space-Dyed Vest than it.

All that being said, 13 songs from TA made it to my top 100 (which comes out to be 32.4% of the record). All but one are in the bottom 50 though, and one is actually number 100. It's safe to say, I don't dislike TA but it's not a favorite. As crystalstars17 points out, it's makes for pleasant background music in the house (once you delete Act of Faythe) but that's about as far as it goes.

Edit: Deleted for embarrassment at my high handed grouchy old morning persona.

[jingle.boy]

The other thing is James's breathy singing is actually really, really bad in my opinion. I've got some personal opinions about him doing it that I won't share. Bosky would ban me if I did. Usually, he keeps it to brief moments where he's trying to project a specific vibe and I can ignore it and even appreciate what he's doing. But, and you know there would be a but, his portrayal of Faythe is off the charts for me. I've actually banished Act of Faythe from my...well, my music player.  If I could gouge it out of the CD without damaging the rest of the CD, I would. In my DT top 100 comparison, it came in dead last for DT's entire catalog...think of that, I'd actually rather listen to Space-Dyed Vest than it.

My impression was always thatthe 'breathiness' he puts into his delivery is the way he tries to differentiate between characters??  I'm mostly guessing, as I never followed the lyric sheet after the first read-thru on my day of purchase, and I would never again listen closely enough to determine if that's the case.

All that being said, 13 songs from TA made it to my top 100

Remove the "1", and this is where I'm at.

[Stadler]

So I've been revisiting a lot of TA for the countdown, and a couple thoughts:

- I tend to agree on the breathiness comment, but as a general proposition, I think James is the clear highlight of this record.  He sings his balls off on this record, and ought to be proud of his work.
- It's got so many great moments, but it's SO hard to string together a full listen.  Even the "songs" (in quotes for a reason) I like are really passages that sound cool melded together and often (intrusively) interspersed with sound effects.  This is a concept album, for sure, but it's not a concept in the way that, say, Misplaced Childhood or The Lamb Lies Down is.  I can - and DO! - put on TLLDOB to listen to the title track, or Carpet Crawlers, or Chamber of 32 Doors. And no, the lyrics make no sense out of context (they don't make much sense in context either, to be honest) but the SONGS are solid.  I wish there were more SONGS on TA.
- One good thing:  the music of DT has gotten noticeably DENSER (as has most modern music) in the years since Mike P. left and TA is a remarkable and refreshing break from that.  The music has space, and breathes, like the parts of the early catalogue I like best. 

Unfortunately, I respect the work, I admire the work, but it will always be a curiosity to me, because I'd much rather put on SDOIT and listen to 90 minutes of unabated music I can lose myself in, as opposed to what emtee said, which I agree with, where I get "antsy" and ready to move on.

[bosk1]

- It's got so many great moments, but it's SO hard to string together a full listen.  Even the "songs" (in quotes for a reason) I like are really passages that sound cool melded together and often (intrusively) interspersed with sound effects.  This is a concept album, for sure, but it's not a concept in the way that, say, Misplaced Childhood or The Lamb Lies Down is.  I can - and DO! - put on TLLDOB to listen to the title track, or Carpet Crawlers, or Chamber of 32 Doors. And no, the lyrics make no sense out of context (they don't make much sense in context either, to be honest) but the SONGS are solid.  I wish there were more SONGS on TA.

...

Unfortunately, I respect the work, I admire the work, but it will always be a curiosity to me, because I'd much rather put on SDOIT and listen to 90 minutes of unabated music I can lose myself in, as opposed to what emtee said, which I agree with, where I get "antsy" and ready to move on.

You (and others) might disagree with this take, but I feel some of those things you mention relative to SFAM.  And SFAM is my second favorite DT album of all time, right behind Six Degrees.  I love listening to the entire thing, but it's hard to find the time to do that and immerse myself in the album.  But even though I love it, it's hard for me to listen to most of the songs out of context.  There are a few that I feel are strong songs all on their own.  But (and here's the controversial part) I would rank MOST of the individual songs on the album pretty low in the DT catalog as songs in their own right.  They aren't bad.  But, as is the case with most concept albums for me, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.  The parts are good.  But the total product is out of this world fantastic.  Just as you say about TA that you wish there were more strong individual SONGS, I wish that were true of SFAM.  But it does have a couple of absolute bangers and a couple more that are pretty good, and the whole product is just so good that I don't mind the album as a whole not having more individual songs that I want to revisit.

[wolfking]

I followed through last night. I put the headphones on with a firm resolve to listen from start to finish. I made it all the way until maybe song 7 and then I became antsy. Absolutely nothing grabbed, wowed me or had me excited for what was next. Then I began listening to the beginning of the next few songs and getting a minute or two into each before hitting the skip button. 3/4 of the way through I gave up. It is what it is. This album will never work for me.

You've pretty much outlined my exact feelings and moments throughout the album where I was getting impatient or tuning out, except I had to hold myself back from the skipping part.

[wolfking]

Kade,

I've been busy and haven't had a chance to respond. I read through your thoughts on my phone as you were posting them and really enjoyed reading it. As Ale says, you could take over the Scenes From My Memory thread!  I'll admit, your concerns and dislikes are very similar to mine only you're quite a bit more offended by it.  Yet, I've got a few more.

I can't stand military march music. It's a personal quirk, and sets my teeth on edge...it actually makes me edgy and a little angry. You can imagine how I struggle with TA since Arys (or however they spell it) Theme is plastered all over the place. I'm a little salty just typing this...

The other thing is James's breathy singing is actually really, really bad in my opinion. I've got some personal opinions about him doing it that I won't share. Bosky would ban me if I did. Usually, he keeps it to brief moments where he's trying to project a specific vibe and I can ignore it and even appreciate what he's doing. But, and you know there would be a but, his portrayal of Faythe is off the charts for me. I've actually banished Act of Faythe from my...well, my music player.  If I could gouge it out of the CD without damaging the rest of the CD, I would. In my DT top 100 comparison, it came in dead last for DT's entire catalog...think of that, I'd actually rather listen to Space-Dyed Vest than it.

All that being said, 13 songs from TA made it to my top 100 (which comes out to be 32.4% of the record). All but one are in the bottom 50 though, and one is actually number 100. It's safe to say, I don't dislike TA but it's not a favorite. As crystalstars17 points out, it's makes for pleasant background music in the house (once you delete Act of Faythe) but that's about as far as it goes.

Edit: Deleted for embarrassment at my high handed grouchy old morning persona.

Thanks Gregg and love your passion here too.  I get where people are coming from with James' breathy 'trying to be sexy' voice as my misses calls it (as it frustrates her too when she hears it.  "Why the fuck does he sing like that, trying be sexy or some shit?!'  ).  But I thought on the album his performance overall overshadows that BUT I'll definitely have to go back to that song and listen with your thoughts in mind.

Reading that, I was then surprised 13 songs made the cut.  Shows the potential it had but in so many ways as already stated, they missed the mark.

[wolfking]

- It's got so many great moments, but it's SO hard to string together a full listen.  Even the "songs" (in quotes for a reason) I like are really passages that sound cool melded together and often (intrusively) interspersed with sound effects.  This is a concept album, for sure, but it's not a concept in the way that, say, Misplaced Childhood or The Lamb Lies Down is.  I can - and DO! - put on TLLDOB to listen to the title track, or Carpet Crawlers, or Chamber of 32 Doors. And no, the lyrics make no sense out of context (they don't make much sense in context either, to be honest) but the SONGS are solid.  I wish there were more SONGS on TA.

...

Unfortunately, I respect the work, I admire the work, but it will always be a curiosity to me, because I'd much rather put on SDOIT and listen to 90 minutes of unabated music I can lose myself in, as opposed to what emtee said, which I agree with, where I get "antsy" and ready to move on.

You (and others) might disagree with this take, but I feel some of those things you mention relative to SFAM.  And SFAM is my second favorite DT album of all time, right behind Six Degrees.  I love listening to the entire thing, but it's hard to find the time to do that and immerse myself in the album.  But even though I love it, it's hard for me to listen to most of the songs out of context.  There are a few that I feel are strong songs all on their own.  But (and here's the controversial part) I would rank MOST of the individual songs on the album pretty low in the DT catalog as songs in their own right.  They aren't bad.  But, as is the case with most concept albums for me, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.  The parts are good.  But the total product is out of this world fantastic.  Just as you say about TA that you wish there were more strong individual SONGS, I wish that were true of SFAM.  But it does have a couple of absolute bangers and a couple more that are pretty good, and the whole product is just so good that I don't mind the album as a whole not having more individual songs that I want to revisit.

This actually makes a lot of sense in regards to SFAM thinking about it, but I personally have never had an issue listening to anything in isolation.  But again, thinking about it, I think this is fair.

In comparison with TA, SFAM gets that perfect balance of the concept on a whole plus great songs that for the most part are memorable and can stand alone.  SFAM you can feel is an organic natural evolvement to the finished product, TA is simply forced and constantly changed and manipulated to try and replicate a vision and a thinking of what it should, or was supposed to be. 

[wolfking]

- It's got so many great moments, but it's SO hard to string together a full listen.  Even the "songs" (in quotes for a reason) I like are really passages that sound cool melded together and often (intrusively) interspersed with sound effects.  This is a concept album, for sure, but it's not a concept in the way that, say, Misplaced Childhood or The Lamb Lies Down is.  I can - and DO! - put on TLLDOB to listen to the title track, or Carpet Crawlers, or Chamber of 32 Doors. And no, the lyrics make no sense out of context (they don't make much sense in context either, to be honest) but the SONGS are solid.  I wish there were more SONGS on TA.

Exactly, with the structure and randomness of most things going on here, it's a stretch to call these songs.  They are pieces to a frustrating and underwhelming jigsaw puzzle where you're over trying to put it together a quarter of the way through.

[DragonAttack]

Well done, Kade.  Appreciate the effort.  You said some things throughout that I've thought but never posted.

I know many edited TA down to one disc.  As did I.  I also edited many songs to fit more of them onto it.  Since you mentioned more than a few intros that were not appealing, I offer you a very edited two disc track listing, total time under 95 minutes.  If you ever go through the album again, maybe this might be a bit more palatable.  Oh, and I have very little 'Faythe' in the presentation as well.

Now we just need you to upload yourself singing a song, ala Indiscipline, so that we can put the voice to the comments

Dystopian Overture (start at 3:59)   0:52 *   
The Gift Of Music   4:00      
The Answer   1:53      
A Better Life   4:39      
Lord Nafaryus   3:28      
A Savior In The Square   4:14      
When Your Time Has Come   4:19      
Act Of Faythe (start at 4:32)   0:29 *      
Three Days   3:44      
Brother, Can You Hear Me? (start at 0:50)   4:21 *   
A Life Left Behind   5:49      
Ravenskill (start at 2:11)   3:50 *   
Chosen     4:32      
A Tempting Offer (ends at 3:43)   3:43 *      
The X Aspect (start at 1:24)   2:49 *      
    Total time 52:42   
      
The Astonishing (the first 1:23)   1:23 *   optional   
A New Beginning    7:41      
Moment Of Betrayal   6:12       
Heaven's Cove (start at 0:43)   3:37 *      
Begin Again   3:54      
The Path That Divides (start at 0:42)   4:28 *      
The Walking Shadow (ends 2:18)   2:18 *   
My Last Farewell (start at 0:58)   2:46 *      
Savior In the Square intro   1:34      
Our New World    4:12      
Astonishing (start at 3:17)   2:34 *      
Power Down   1:25
     Total time 42:04

*edited      

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Well done, Kade.  Appreciate the effort.  You said some things throughout that I've thought but never posted.

I know many edited TA down to one disc.  As did I.  I also edited many songs to fit more of them onto it.  Since you mentioned more than a few intros that were not appealing, I offer you a very edited two disc track listing, total time under 95 minutes.  If you ever go through the album again, maybe this might be a bit more palatable.  Oh, and I have very little 'Faythe' in the presentation as well.

Now we just need you to upload yourself singing a song, ala Indiscipline, so that we can put the voice to the comments

Dystopian Overture (start at 3:59)   0:52 *   
The Gift Of Music   4:00      
The Answer   1:53      
A Better Life   4:39      
Lord Nafaryus   3:28      
A Savior In The Square   4:14      
When Your Time Has Come   4:19      
Act Of Faythe (start at 4:32)   0:29 *      
Three Days   3:44      
Brother, Can You Hear Me? (start at 0:50)   4:21 *   
A Life Left Behind   5:49      
Ravenskill (start at 2:11)   3:50 *   
Chosen     4:32      
A Tempting Offer (ends at 3:43)   3:43 *      
The X Aspect (start at 1:24)   2:49 *      
    Total time 52:42   
      
The Astonishing (the first 1:23)   1:23 *   optional   
A New Beginning    7:41      
Moment Of Betrayal   6:12       
Heaven's Cove (start at 0:43)   3:37 *      
Begin Again   3:54      
The Path That Divides (start at 0:42)   4:28 *      
The Walking Shadow (ends 2:18)   2:18 *   
My Last Farewell (start at 0:58)   2:46 *      
Savior In the Square intro   1:34      
Our New World    4:12      
Astonishing (start at 3:17)   2:34 *      
Power Down   1:25
     Total time 42:04

*edited

Ooh, I kind of want to try my hand at editing this together so it flows smoothly. I may do just that....

[RoeDent]

I have a feeling there's a mistake in the booklet. On The Walking Shadow, it has lyrics credited to Arhys (Don't hold your breath/The night's still young), but Daryus had just killed him in the previous song The Path That Divides. And the menacing tone of them makes me think it's Daryus addressing Xander. At least that's how I've always perceived it on listening.

[Ben_Jamin]

I have a feeling there's a mistake in the booklet. On The Walking Shadow, it has lyrics credited to Arhys (Don't hold your breath/The night's still young), but Daryus had just killed him in the previous song The Path That Divides. And the menacing tone of them makes me think it's Daryus addressing Xander. At least that's how I've always perceived it on listening.

You might have a misprint cause mine says Daryus.

[RoeDent]

You might have a misprint cause mine says Daryus.

Huh...weird. I just double-checked to make sure I wasn't misreading and my copy most definitely says "ARHYS" above the relevant lyrics.

[TAC]

Mine says Ahrys too!

[jingle.boy]

Who fucking cares!  Surely it doesn't make the story any worse??

[Wim Kruithof]

Who fucking cares!  Surely it doesn't make the story any worse??

I do.

Mine says Daryus also (vinyl box).

[wolfking]

If I gave a shit I'd go through my cds and find mine to check for you lads.

[Indiscipline]

Mine says Arhys.  CD, serial RR7493-2.

[Dream Team]

Who fucking cares!  Surely it doesn't make the story any worse??

You keep carrying on like all of us share the same opinion as you on TA. News flash: we don't.