- " The Astonishing " - One Year -- er, SEVEN YEARS On.

[bosk1]

Good post.  I will limit my response to two items.

1.  Not sure if I've discussed this topic here, and it has to do with this quote:

Again, this is supposed to be a bigger thing and yet the plot leaves a lot more to be desired. I wanted to know more about the people of ravenskill, whether or not there was some actual physical conflict, how the world came to be as it is, Empress Arabelle.... All that. Guess I have to pick up the book.

I am of two minds on this.  On one hand, I agree and feel like there needed to be a bit more of that.  Not necessarily ALL of those things in great detail.  But as I've said before, I feel that there needed to be a bit more on the actual conflict and the loss of life and its impact on the people.  Although I intellectually understand the stakes of the conflict, I'm never shown that the stakes are high, so I don't feel the stakes.  Show me that the stakes are high so that I feel it!

On the other hand, JP made a conscious artistic choice to set this interpersonal conflict in the midst of this much bigger societal conflict, and to focus on the former rather than the latter, and I think that's actually pretty cool.  Not sure whether you saw that John Adams HBO series that was done about 10 years or so again, but it was kind of similar.  Although it was set in and around the time of the American Revolution, it didn't show ANY of the iconic military conflicts that were going on.  In fact, it showed very little of the fighting at all.  Rather, it focused primarily on one family, their interpersonal interactions with one another, and their interpersonal interactions with others.  And the focus was more on those interpersonal interactions, how the war impacted them, and how they impacted the war, instead of being on the war itself.  TA did the same thing.  It was about the people, and how a few individuals could have such a big impact on a bigger conflict and be impacted by the bigger conflict.  It's a cool artistic choice, and I respect it.

2.  I really don't understand your use of bold font for parts of your opening sentence for each paragraph.  Makes no sense to me and, for some reason, I find it to be a bit triggering.

[LCArenas]

1. The John Adams comparison is on point, however I believe it works mainly because there have been other countless representations of the war as a war itself. The personal conflicts come as a nice and innovative take but this is because we already know what is being risked in the war. In TA, we're being introduced to it and it's (At least within the album) the only way for us to know about said conflict.
2. Well it was a long post so I decided to highlight the introductory sentences as some kind of tl;dr for people who didn't want to read the whole thing (I forgot to do it properly in the second paragraph). Sorry bout that

[RAIN]

Sadly, TA has actually gotten worse with age for me.  I listened to it again just after the release of DOT, (well that and all of the DT albums, I've been binging a bit).  It is actually cheesier and worse than before.  I think the original excitement of having a new DT album, I was trying hard to find songs or reason to like songs just because, as a fan, I have to right?  Well nope.  It's just a bad album.  It did not grow on me.

TA had such potential, and I was super psyched about it.  e-mail joining the different sides, not knowing what we'd get.  It was exciting.  It was supposed to be epic.  A double album, lots of characters etc....I thought they'd have different singers (James is terrible at sounding female and it takes you out of the character, and that's on top of terrible story line).  I expected more for how we were all set up.  I thought this was gonna be big.  Different singers, more sonics, more sounds, at least a few heavy dark songs.  I almost thought we would to when the Descent Of The Nomacs started and went into Dystopian Overture...for sure, this was it, it was gonna happen...even The Gift Of Music was good, but those lyrics?  WTF?  But OK, deal with it and move on...but come on it just got worse and worse and completely down the drain.

[bosk1]

It's just a bad album.

Uh, no, it is most definitely NOT a "bad album."  The fact that you don't happen to like it does not make it somehow "bad." 

[RAIN]

It's just a bad album.

Uh, no, it is most definitely NOT a "bad album."  The fact that you don't happen to like it does not make it somehow "bad."

You really take all of my posts and words and rip them apart.  It's how I feel, and it's a bad album.  Just because you like it doesn't make it good.
I hope not to offend Mr Administrator.

[bosk1]

You really take all of my posts and words and rip them apart. 

Then that may be a clue that you aren't wording them very well.  It's nothing personal.  Until you mentioned it, I didn't even realize I had zeroed in on any of your other posts.  But what I can say is that in the one I did just single out, you stated something objectively that is not objective, and you did so in a somewhat offensive way.  So, again, you should consider that your posting style might be better received if you were to modify it.

[Anguyen92]

You really take all of my posts and words and rip them apart.  It's how I feel, and it's a bad album.  Just because you like it doesn't make it good.
I hope not to offend Mr Administrator.

It just doesn't make it good for you.  There are many albums, countless albums, from various classic bands that people would go gaga over and say best album ever and I honestly don't like those.  I don't think I would ever say "just because those people like it doesn't make it a good album," for albums I do not like.  Those are just ones that I honestly would not care to listen to again, and that's fair to say regarding an album like The Astonishing (I like it though).

I will reiterate that I would rather have DT do something like play beyond what they think they can do and go for broke (even if I don't like the album in the end) and create something daring like The Astonishing and have some people not like it as much, than create an album that regurgitates what they are known for and it's a copy of a copy of prior classic DT songs without doing anything bold and unexpected.  I'm not saying that is the case for Distance Over Time (in fact, I've been reading various comments about it outside of DTF.  There's a good vibe about it, and the fact that all five guys are contributing more in the songwriting helps me assure myself that it's not going to be a plain regurgitation) since I haven't heard it yet, but will listen to it once I get through listening to all the DT albums in preparation of their show at the Wiltern Theater in less than two weeks.

[RAIN]

It just doesn't make it good for you. 

It was a counter argument, powerful or not, in response to Mr Administrators subjective interpretation of my subjective feeling....which is of course the point of the OPs post, asking how people feel about TA years later. Nothing more, nothing less.

Back to the topic, you can delete my original post.  TA didn't do it for me back in 2016, and listening to it just this week again, it hasn't fared well.

[Architeuthis]

The title of this thread should "TA 3 years on" at this point.  This album was great out of the gate and has aged well with me. A top tier DT album for sure!

[EPIC Outro]

Here's a question... Do you think DT will ever revisit this story with new music? Not a whole album, but maybe a song here or there, or even one big epic?

While it was not perfect, I love TA as much as any DT album. I'd love to hear something further one day.

[TAC]

I would extremely doubt they would.


Only if they have some sort of Queensryche style break up, where JP leaves and retains the name The Astonishing for his band and forbids Dream Theater from playing it in its entirety.

[DragonAttack]

 

[EPIC Outro]

I would extremely doubt they would.


Only if they have some sort of Queensryche style break up, where JP leaves and retains the name The Astonishing for his band and forbids Dream Theater from playing it in its entirety.

Stop that. Lol

[1neeto]

3 years later and I still cringe. Actually I’m lying, I haven’t listened to that album in over two years.

[SwedishGoose]

3 years later and it's still my favorite album of Dream Theaters discography.

[SeRoX]

Ravenskill and The Path That Divides are still in my favourite spotify list.

I admire their effort and this perhaps has the best vocal performance by James and great piano work by Jordan throught the album. I just can't listen it entirely but it has its magic and I love it.

I just wish their concept story was a bit different and the musical approach was not that operatic.

[Nachtmerrie]

I have a ton of respect for them doing something totally different in this phase of their career.

For me it's one one of their albums I barely listen to. There are some songs I really like (A Life Left Behind, Our New World among others) but the story just doesn't grab me and the album feels too long (usually I don't mind albums over 70 minutes).

James really shines on TA but I would have preferred them working with different singers. I love the Our New Word version with Lzzy Hale, the female voices make it more credible for me.

[ytserush]

So I revisited the album once again seeing that I'm playing D/T a lot lately. I have a lot to think about:

A lot to consider there. Thanks.

[red barchetta]

Well, as a Rush fan, I can say that Roll the bones was a bad album and I think that some Dream Theater's fan can say the same about TA.  That does not mean we don't like them anymore.  And that does not mean that there are not any good songs in TA.  I doubt very much they ever do again that kind of project.

[Dublagent66]

Well, as a Rush fan, I can say that Roll the bones was a bad album and I think that some Dream Theater's fan can say the same about TA.  That does not mean we don't like them anymore.  And that does not mean that there are not any good songs in TA.  I doubt very much they ever do again that kind of project.

I'm a Rush and DT fan and I don't think either of those albums are bad.  They just went a different direction and didn't quite live up to what the bands are known for.

[Jay T]

I really enjoy this album. I think it's one of their finest, and it's a shame it didn't go over well with so many fans.

[Loggins]

I like it, but it's somewhere near the bottom. Partially because there are so many songs and only a few of them are easy for me to listen to. This is normal for me and concept albums. It's like Ayreon's "Theory of Everything" album. I like it, but because of what it is, I find it hard to listen to a random song picked out of the middle. I tend to listen to it when I can do the whole thing in one sitting. It is - after all - a complete story.

For the rest of DT's albums I can put every song from every album on shuffle and not feel as if I am going out of order.

[Vlasto]

When it was released, after a few listens, though I liked it, duet no big interest I stopped listening it for about one year.

Then, suddenly it came, I bought CD and now have no problem to rate it 5/5. 
Beautiful album.

The only objection I have is sound of bass and drums, very weak.

 

[flintdragon]

Still one of my favorite albums.

1. Kids will actually sing the Dystopian Overture for fun.
2. Yes, I listen to it often from beginning to end.
3. Chosen is so powerful for me.  Similar feeling I get with some of the solos in Les Miserables.
4. That solo in The New Beginning is one of my favorites.
5. Moment of Betrayal of course
6. Really love the lyrics for Begin Again
 

[Jay T]

You really take all of my posts and words and rip them apart. 

Then that may be a clue that you aren't wording them very well.  It's nothing personal.  Until you mentioned it, I didn't even realize I had zeroed in on any of your other posts.  But what I can say is that in the one I did just single out, you stated something objectively that is not objective, and you did so in a somewhat offensive way.  So, again, you should consider that your posting style might be better received if you were to modify it.

Classic example of bosk always having to be right.

[bosk1]

That is both off topic and baiting.  Please keep threads on topic, and if you have a comment about the way the forum is run, take it to PM.  Consider this a warning.

[Jay T]

That is both off topic and baiting.  Please keep threads on topic, and if you have a comment about the way the forum is run, take it to PM.  Consider this a warning.

Or what? You have absolutely zero power, bosk. You’ve banned me numerous times, and I always come back. There isn’t a damn thing you can do to prevent it.

[bosk1]

That is both off topic and baiting.  Please keep threads on topic, and if you have a comment about the way the forum is run, take it to PM.  Consider this a warning.

Or what? You have absolutely zero power, bosk. You’ve banned me numerous times, and I always come back. There isn’t a damn thing you can do to prevent it.

Um...congratulations?  So I guess this is "numerous+1" then.

[Ben_Jamin]

Still one of my favorite albums.


2. Yes, I listen to it often from beginning to end.
3. Chosen is so powerful for me.
5. Moment of Betrayal of course
6. Really love the lyrics for Begin Again
 

I agree with these. Begin Again had great lyrics about just that beginning a brand new life change. Plus it has that epic ending section.

[TheGreatPretender]

3 years on, to be honest, I have a hard time placing it among the other DT albums. The whole thing is such a connected musical journey, that it's like listening to a soundtrack. The recurring themes and motifs enhance the overall experience, and make it a joy to listen to, but it's hard to think of it as a Rock album, a collection of songs. There are probably 4 or 5 tracks on this album that I'd consider really good stand alone songs, namely A Gift of Music, Brother Can You Hear Me, Moment of Betrayal, Heaven's Cove, and Our New World.

When Your Time Has Come is an interesting case, which kind of exemplifies why it's difficult for me to appreciate a lot of the tracks on this album as their own stand-alone pieces. This is one of my favorite songs by DT ever, and I think in terms of the subject matter, it's almost universal. It feels almost like a sequel to The Spirit Carries On, except that at the end of it, we have a verse from Faythe, which totally distracts from the main subject matter, and while it leads nicely into the next song, it doesn't let this one stand out as its own piece. Neither does the fact that it starts by flowing in from the previous track. For the narrative purposes of the rock opera, it makes sense, and works beautifully, but as a stand alone song, it feels like it's lacking a proper beginning and ending, so I pretty much always have to enjoy it purely within the context of the album as a whole.
That's why it's hard for me to accept The Astonishing as a collection of songs, a rock album by a band, so to speak. To be fair, this is a case with other concept albums for me too. I mean, The Wall is my favorite Pink Floyd album, but I almost exclusively have to enjoy it as one long piece, (or at least two halves), meanwhile, there are only about 3 or 4 songs on it that I enjoy purely on their own merits.

But anyway, bottom line, as far as musically, I still think The Astonishing is absolutely divine. As someone who appreciates good melodies and orchestrations, and isn't just looking for overly fast and complex shredding, for me, there isn't a single boring moment on this whole album.

[Chino]

Still my favorite DT album.

[ytserush]

Well, as a Rush fan, I can say that Roll the bones was a bad album and I think that some Dream Theater's fan can say the same about TA.  That does not mean we don't like them anymore.  And that does not mean that there are not any good songs in TA.  I doubt very much they ever do again that kind of project.

I wouldn't say Roll The Bones as a whole was bad at all, maybe a few songs. I love just about any song from that album that was played live, except for maybe Ghost of a Chance.

[TheFrozenInferno]

The Astonishing didn't age well with me at all. It started out in my bottom three DT albums and if anything it has solidified a spot in the bottom two over time. There are some moments I thoroughly enjoy but I could count them on one hand.

I appreciate what the band was going for, the work that was put into it, and the risk they took, it's just not for me. Maybe some day it'll grow on me (like FII did after maybe 10 or 12 years) but for the time being I can't bring myself to listen to it very much at all.

[red barchetta]

Well, as a Rush fan, I can say that Roll the bones was a bad album and I think that some Dream Theater's fan can say the same about TA.  That does not mean we don't like them anymore.  And that does not mean that there are not any good songs in TA.  I doubt very much they ever do again that kind of project.

I wouldn't say Roll The Bones as a whole was bad at all, maybe a few songs. I love just about any song from that album that was played live, except for maybe Ghost of a Chance.

Roll the bones is their softest album ever.  Even today, I think is more like a pop rock album.  And what happened?  Their next effort, Counterparts, came with a totally different approach.  Much more heavy, bass and guitars sounds way different.  Kind of what DT did with their new album.  If Rush would have kept going with a sound and style like Roll The Bones, I would have stepped out for some time.

[TheGreatPretender]

Roll the bones is their softest album ever.  Even today, I think is more like a pop rock album.  And what happened?  Their next effort, Counterparts, came with a totally different approach.  Much more heavy, bass and guitars sounds way different.  Kind of what DT did with their new album.  If Rush would have kept going with a sound and style like Roll The Bones, I would have stepped out for some time.

Roll The Bones was great. But I think they changed their direction because they always tried to stay modern and contemporary, and at the time Counterparts came out, the contemporary thing was Grunge, so it was the perfect opportunity for them to start playing heavier music again. Either way, both great albums on their own merits, IMO.