- " The Astonishing " - One Year -- er, SEVEN YEARS On.

[RoeDent]

Happy 5th anniversary to The Astonishing!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I look at WDADU as Majesty's one and only album, especially since that it was originally intended to be a Majesty album, IaW as the band's true debut, Six Degrees suite as an album in and of itself within another album, and LTE 1 and 2 as quasi Dream Theater albums as it's 3/4 of 00s DT and they had no problem injecting some of that stuff into their live shows. So I also look at TA as a Dream Theater-related production featuring all the current members of the band because it's far removed from a typical Dream Theater album and is more or less JP's baby.

It’s never up to us to say what’s Dream Theater and what is not, it’s up to the band. If it has the Dream Theater name on it, it’s Dream Theater. Our readings of certain situations make no difference at all in the overall picture.

Happy 5th anniversary to The Astonishing!

Happy anniversary to one of my all-time favorites

[Mladen]

Happy 5th anniversary to The Astonishing!

Happy anniversary to one of my all-time favorites

This.   

[Ben_Jamin]

 

It's been 5 years, already. Holy crap. I am still noticing things about the album.

[hunnus2000]

TA - For sophisticated musical tastes!   

[Lethean]

 I still love this album.  Haven't listened to it lately, so I think I'll remedy that now.

[geeeemo]

I am flying cross country tomorrow. I am going to listen and read the book!

[bobzor]

The album has aged surprisingly well for me. Just revisited it and listened to CD1 yesterday and CD2 today. While there certainly is a lot of filler and the song structures don't follow the ordinary formula the album has some very grand moments. Someone mentioned somewhere in the thread that the endings of many songs are very good and I agree. While the album may be a bit overloaded with calm piano intros, the endings are many times filled with just the right kind of drama and heartache. Also, that Lord Nafaryus tango is awesome. Stand alone favorite songs are perhaps Moment of Betrayal, already mentioned Nafaryus, and Brother, Can You Hear Me. I also noticed disc 1 is more enjoyable than disc 2 as a whole, despite Moment of Betrayal being the best song on the album.

The story I could never get into.

[bluefox4000]

WOW TA is 5 years old.

i see a lot of varied opinions on this album mine is............Meh?

let me explain.  i have a friend who i'd struggled to get into DT for years.  he loved them....then hated them.....then loved them.....then hated them. on and on forever and ever.  anyway he finally loves them now.  my point for saying all this is he thinks TA is the worst thing DT did and will ever do.

but....i think that view is over the top.  i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

and it''s cheesy but it's meant to be.

i respect DT for trying this even if it doesn't quite gell for me.

[kirksnosehair]

i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

Part of the problem with the lyrics is they are not tongue in cheek like, say, Ayreon.  Now that is some seriously cheesy shit, but it knows it's cheesy.  It embraces the cheesiness and it brings all the fans in on the joke and doesn't mind poking fun at itself, nor does any of it take itself seriously.


The Astonishing, on the other hand, is presented more as a serious story, meant to be deep and intriguing and thought-provoking, but the lyrics are just as cheesy if not more cheesy than Ayreon and I think if it had been presented in a more tongue in cheek fashion it may not have received the same cold reception that it eventually received from the fan base.  I see it consistently rated at or near the bottom of the the catalog and I think you identified both of the main problems, the story is just too weird and not very compelling or emotionally engaging and the album suffers from a severe case of bloat.  There is one CD of pretty solid music but the rest?  meh

[Ben_Jamin]

i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

Part of the problem with the lyrics is they are not tongue in cheek like, say, Ayreon.  Now that is some seriously cheesy shit, but it knows it's cheesy.  It embraces the cheesiness and it brings all the fans in on the joke and doesn't mind poking fun at itself, nor does any of it take itself seriously.


The Astonishing, on the other hand, is presented more as a serious story, meant to be deep and intriguing and thought-provoking, but the lyrics are just as cheesy if not more cheesy than Ayreon and I think if it had been presented in a more tongue in cheek fashion it may not have received the same cold reception that it eventually received from the fan base.  I see it consistently rated at or near the bottom of the the catalog and I think you identified both of the main problems, the story is just too weird and not very compelling or emotionally engaging and the album suffers from a severe case of bloat.  There is one CD of pretty solid music but the rest?  meh

I don't think it's really the lyrics written. I think it's how the lyrics are presented. It's hard for one man to portray many characters and to present those lyrics in the way that best represents the emotion of that character, and JLB uses his tone to present the characters emotion. It's easier when you can have multiple vocalists that best represent the character, as in Ayreon. Arjen even created a character for Mike Mills on Transitus because he likes his voice, and picked a dumb piece of rock.  I even asked Arjen about if the characters on The Source were the same characters as in 01, just different vocalists used because he couldn't get the other guys. I should've asked too if he also thought about using the original 01 singers.

It's why I like this cover of Act of Faythe, here her vocals portray that emotion of Faythe. This is close to how I hear Faythe.



It'd be fun to see who's people's choices would be for the characters, if an Ayreon type of show were to be done.

For now, it'd be someone like Anneke for Faythe, but I would actually go with someone poppy like Arianna Grande. and for Nefaryus it'd be someone with a gritty voice, but has power, Like Chris Cornell.

I would have to think of the others, but for now...

Faythe: Arianna Grande

[IDontNotDoThings]

Faythe: Arianna Grande

Good luck with that

[Ben_Jamin]

Faythe: Arianna Grande

Good luck with that

Yup, it's a big wish...

But to me her voice would be a good Faythe.

And Daryus would sound good in a Ronnie James Dio style of vocals. I could hear that voice with "You dare defy your prince..."

[TAC]

Faythe: Arianna Grande

And Drake and Josh for Arhys and Gabriel?

[Mladen]

"You used to called me on my cellphone, the Ravenskill militia!"

[kirksnosehair]

i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

Part of the problem with the lyrics is they are not tongue in cheek like, say, Ayreon.  Now that is some seriously cheesy shit, but it knows it's cheesy.  It embraces the cheesiness and it brings all the fans in on the joke and doesn't mind poking fun at itself, nor does any of it take itself seriously.


The Astonishing, on the other hand, is presented more as a serious story, meant to be deep and intriguing and thought-provoking, but the lyrics are just as cheesy if not more cheesy than Ayreon and I think if it had been presented in a more tongue in cheek fashion it may not have received the same cold reception that it eventually received from the fan base.  I see it consistently rated at or near the bottom of the the catalog and I think you identified both of the main problems, the story is just too weird and not very compelling or emotionally engaging and the album suffers from a severe case of bloat.  There is one CD of pretty solid music but the rest?  meh

I don't think it's really the lyrics written. I think it's how the lyrics are presented. It's hard for one man to portray many characters and to present those lyrics in the way that best represents the emotion of that character, and JLB uses his tone to present the characters emotion. It's easier when you can have multiple vocalists that best represent the character, as in Ayreon. Arjen even created a character for Mike Mills on Transitus because he likes his voice, and picked a dumb piece of rock.  I even asked Arjen about if the characters on The Source were the same characters as in 01, just different vocalists used because he couldn't get the other guys. I should've asked too if he also thought about using the original 01 singers.

It's why I like this cover of Act of Faythe, here her vocals portray that emotion of Faythe. This is close to how I hear Faythe.



It'd be fun to see who's people's choices would be for the characters, if an Ayreon type of show were to be done.

For now, it'd be someone like Anneke for Faythe, but I would actually go with someone poppy like Arianna Grande. and for Nefaryus it'd be someone with a gritty voice, but has power, Like Chris Cornell.

I would have to think of the others, but for now...

Faythe: Arianna Grande

I agree that having multiple vocalists for the characters on an album like this would have helped, but I really don't see Dream Theater doing a full-on multi-vocalist Rock Opera.  I'd be shocked if they ever did another album like this.  But if they DID decide to do another one I think it would be a very bold idea to bring in some help with the vocals to voice the individual characters' voices, but I think the fan base would flip the fuck out over something like that. 

[gzarruk]

i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

Part of the problem with the lyrics is they are not tongue in cheek like, say, Ayreon.  Now that is some seriously cheesy shit, but it knows it's cheesy.  It embraces the cheesiness and it brings all the fans in on the joke and doesn't mind poking fun at itself, nor does any of it take itself seriously.


The Astonishing, on the other hand, is presented more as a serious story, meant to be deep and intriguing and thought-provoking, but the lyrics are just as cheesy if not more cheesy than Ayreon and I think if it had been presented in a more tongue in cheek fashion it may not have received the same cold reception that it eventually received from the fan base.  I see it consistently rated at or near the bottom of the the catalog and I think you identified both of the main problems, the story is just too weird and not very compelling or emotionally engaging and the album suffers from a severe case of bloat.  There is one CD of pretty solid music but the rest?  meh

I don't think it's really the lyrics written. I think it's how the lyrics are presented. It's hard for one man to portray many characters and to present those lyrics in the way that best represents the emotion of that character, and JLB uses his tone to present the characters emotion. It's easier when you can have multiple vocalists that best represent the character, as in Ayreon. Arjen even created a character for Mike Mills on Transitus because he likes his voice, and picked a dumb piece of rock.  I even asked Arjen about if the characters on The Source were the same characters as in 01, just different vocalists used because he couldn't get the other guys. I should've asked too if he also thought about using the original 01 singers.

It's why I like this cover of Act of Faythe, here her vocals portray that emotion of Faythe. This is close to how I hear Faythe.



It'd be fun to see who's people's choices would be for the characters, if an Ayreon type of show were to be done.

For now, it'd be someone like Anneke for Faythe, but I would actually go with someone poppy like Arianna Grande. and for Nefaryus it'd be someone with a gritty voice, but has power, Like Chris Cornell.

I would have to think of the others, but for now...

Faythe: Arianna Grande

I agree that having multiple vocalists for the characters on an album like this would have helped, but I really don't see Dream Theater doing a full-on multi-vocalist Rock Opera.  I'd be shocked if they ever did another album like this.  But if they DID decide to do another one I think it would be a very bold idea to bring in some help with the vocals to voice the individual characters' voices, but I think the fan base would flip the fuck out over something like that. 

IIRC, having multiple vocalists for TA was in the cards for a while, but then John P and James decided he would handle all the vocal parts.

Maybe they'll revisit TA someday and play it live with different singers to record it for a live album, but I'm not counting on it.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think it's really the lyrics written. I think it's how the lyrics are presented.

I beg to differ. There's too much dialogue - had there been more of a narrative akin to what we see in SFaM, the story could've been told in a more concise way (which would also result in less short, piano based songs and interludes) and would've left room for some real action (like a battle or two) that would've brought some real crunch to the proceedings (and maybe made the music a bit less Disney-esque). Plus, the story is basically Rush's 2112 meets Jesus Christ, so it's not the most compelling idea given that 2112 and Jesus Christ Superstar already exist.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't think it's really the lyrics written. I think it's how the lyrics are presented.

I beg to differ. There's too much dialogue - had there been more of a narrative akin to what we see in SFaM, the story could've been told in a more concise way (which would also result in less short, piano based songs and interludes) and would've left room for some real action (like a battle or two) that would've brought some real crunch to the proceedings (and maybe made the music a bit less Disney-esque). Plus, the story is basically Rush's 2112 meets Jesus Christ, so it's not the most compelling idea given that 2112 and Jesus Christ Superstar already exist.

That's the point is to have dialogue. It's a Rock Opera. And when you see Rock Operas, there are dialogues between characters. It's actually characters singing out their emotions. And I also, think the point is also JP likes Disney style songs, he probably likes how those songs are written, he did do Let It Go with his daughter.

And I do not like to compare different works of art, for this very reason of dismissing it because it sounds close to something else. It's not really 2112, the only aspect of that is the music being the main point. It's more Jesus Christ Superstar with the savior aspect. But that is any hero story. And both 2112 and JCS were influencers to The Astonishing.




But yeah, Is it too hard for people to give suggestions for whom they might choose, IF there was a mutli-vocalist approach to The Astonishing?

I'll give my choices when I can think more about the style and whom would best suit the emotions...

The reason I chose Arianna Grande, is because Faythe, has that essence of being young. And her voice is very good for the emotion that Faythe portrays, and makes Faythes stabbing even more hard hitting, when you connect with that angelic voice.

Gabriel would actually be good for a Powerhouse vocalist, like Roy Kahn, Tommy Karevik, Mike Patton, Eddy Vedder

What I am trying to do with my vocalist choices is spread it out through all genres.

Annabelle, could be someone like Tori Amos, someone with that motherly voice.

[bluefox4000]

i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

Part of the problem with the lyrics is they are not tongue in cheek like, say, Ayreon.  Now that is some seriously cheesy shit, but it knows it's cheesy.  It embraces the cheesiness and it brings all the fans in on the joke and doesn't mind poking fun at itself, nor does any of it take itself seriously.


The Astonishing, on the other hand, is presented more as a serious story, meant to be deep and intriguing and thought-provoking, but the lyrics are just as cheesy if not more cheesy than Ayreon and I think if it had been presented in a more tongue in cheek fashion it may not have received the same cold reception that it eventually received from the fan base.  I see it consistently rated at or near the bottom of the the catalog and I think you identified both of the main problems, the story is just too weird and not very compelling or emotionally engaging and the album suffers from a severe case of bloat.  There is one CD of pretty solid music but the rest?  meh

it's very broadway........BUT.......i can tel you.  i come from theater.....worked in theater.  TA is cheesier than real theater most days.

and another problem with the story.  it's super cliched and been told in other forms before so it's nothing fresh.

again i commend them. i don't hate it.....but i kinda never need to hear it ever again.

[kirksnosehair]

Oh, I think it took a massive set of balls to do it and I also highly commend them for it.  I may not care for the final outcome all that much, but I respect them for doing it.  It was a pretty huge risk.


It would be fascinating to know how it sold in relation to the rest of the catalog.   IIRC it did much better than this thread would imply, but I could be wrong.

[Ben_Jamin]

i don't hate this album and i don't think it's the worst thing ever.  i'm in the middle.  It has some lovely tracks and melodies. but i think it's too long.  and to me it's biggest failing is those lyrics.  yeesh.

Part of the problem with the lyrics is they are not tongue in cheek like, say, Ayreon.  Now that is some seriously cheesy shit, but it knows it's cheesy.  It embraces the cheesiness and it brings all the fans in on the joke and doesn't mind poking fun at itself, nor does any of it take itself seriously.


The Astonishing, on the other hand, is presented more as a serious story, meant to be deep and intriguing and thought-provoking, but the lyrics are just as cheesy if not more cheesy than Ayreon and I think if it had been presented in a more tongue in cheek fashion it may not have received the same cold reception that it eventually received from the fan base.  I see it consistently rated at or near the bottom of the the catalog and I think you identified both of the main problems, the story is just too weird and not very compelling or emotionally engaging and the album suffers from a severe case of bloat.  There is one CD of pretty solid music but the rest?  meh

it's very broadway........BUT.......i can tel you.  i come from theater.....worked in theater.  TA is cheesier than real theater most days.

and another problem with the story.  it's super cliched and been told in other forms before so it's nothing fresh.

again i commend them. i don't hate it.....but i kinda never need to hear it ever again.

Yup. It is cheesier because JP doesn't write for broadway like those people do.

I don't care if it's fresh or not. I still enjoy the story and setting it has, with the NOMACS being this big loud Machines that are capable of killing people with sound. It is what killed Evangeline and caused her to give birth to Xander on the spot. It's why I bought the book, which I still haven't read completely, I have no idea why I haven't read it all yet.

I think it's good for what it is. It isn't trying to be a broadway style. It's a Rock Opera, mixed with some dashes of Disney Musical style. But, it could be made into a broadway style musical. It's what happened with HadesTown.


This is also why I want The Astonishing Live released. It was a fantastic show and represented the concept well. I used my imagination for the rest.

[Ben_Jamin]

I actually decided while listening to Chosen to make a mashup of that song, and other songs from The Astonishing. Basically, condensing the story from Chosen onwards.

The songs used are

Chosen
The Road To Revolution
Moment of Betrayal
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
Losing Faythe
The Astonishing

I have it all pretty much done and and blended to the best possible way I can get it with what I have, and the knowledge I have of crossfading.

Now here's my dilemma...I am having trouble figuring out how to crossfade the end of Losing Faythe into The Astonishing. So far, I have figured out 3 different ways, that sound good to me, but aren't quite how I want it to blend. The one I have, and made more into a listenable track, sounds pretty decent to me.

Now...I am wondering as well, if it will be alright to post it on here if I do decide to upload it on my Youtube channel?

I actually like it and think it's a nice way to condense the ending story.

I can describe what I did, but I would rather you hear it for yourselves.

The two I really like clock in at 26 Min. and 29 Min.

[RodrigoAltaf]

They could have brought in King Diamond as an advisor. The story would be better, the NOMACS would be ten times more evil...

[Ben_Jamin]

They could have brought in King Diamond as an advisor. The story would be better, the NOMACS would be ten times more evil...

If you read the book. They are...

You know what it sounded like live when those NOMACS tracks played. Now imagine that but with hundreds of those things making that noise.


Anyways, I realized, when I picked Faythe. I meant to put Demi Lovato instead of Arianna Grande...

[Ben_Jamin]

Here it is...

I decided to also make the video with Images I could find online of The Astonishing, closest to what is happening in the songs I chose to use. I would've just uploaded some from the Linear books, but I don't have those with me.

Chosen From Losing Faythe (The Astonishing Mashup)

[Architeuthis]

They could have brought in King Diamond as an advisor. The story would be better, the NOMACS would be ten times more evil...

Anyways, I realized, when I picked Faythe. I meant to put Demi Lovato instead of Arianna Grande...

I also think Geddy, I mean AMY Lee would do a good job as Faythe.

[Ben_Jamin]

They could have brought in King Diamond as an advisor. The story would be better, the NOMACS would be ten times more evil...

Anyways, I realized, when I picked Faythe. I meant to put Demi Lovato instead of Arianna Grande...

I also think Geddy, I mean AMY Lee would do a good job as Faythe.

Yeah...Her voice is suited for that too. But for me, my decision was based on the voice being a younger singer.

[JLa]

It's been five years and I still haven't listened to the entire thing in one sitting.

[WilliamMunny]

It's been five years and I still listen to 'A Life Left Behind' fairly routinely.

I wish there was more to go back to, but that is literally the only song I have any interest in hearing off the record. Glad it's still resonating with others, though.

[bluefox4000]

I think the last FULL listen i gave to TA was about 2 years ago.  lol.  i just pick and choose songs.

i'm sorry but the thing really isn't worth a full play.

[geeeemo]

I listen to the full record every 2 or 3 mos. (usually over the course of 2 days - like 2 bike rides). I enjoy it as much or more with each listen.

[PMA]

Here it is...

I decided to also make the video with Images I could find online of The Astonishing, closest to what is happening in the songs I chose to use. I would've just uploaded some from the Linear books, but I don't have those with me.

Chosen From Losing Faythe (The Astonishing Mashup)

Very well done!  I am a real fan of TA but this is a great way to shortcut the story.  Your transitions were excellent.

[Ben_Jamin]

Here it is...

I decided to also make the video with Images I could find online of The Astonishing, closest to what is happening in the songs I chose to use. I would've just uploaded some from the Linear books, but I don't have those with me.

Chosen From Losing Faythe (The Astonishing Mashup)

Very well done!  I am a real fan of TA but this is a great way to shortcut the story.  Your transitions were excellent.

Thanks for the comment, and I am glad you enjoyed it.

[Dublagent66]

I think the last FULL listen i gave to TA was about 2 years ago.  lol.  i just pick and choose songs.

i'm sorry but the thing really isn't worth a full play.

Same here.  There are about 9 tracks that I actually like.  If any of those come up in a random shuffle, I'll listen.  Otherwise it's skip time.