The "luckiest" musicians ever

[Anguyen92]

As much as it pains me to say this, even if I do say that it wouldn't be Alter Bridge without those guys since the line-up hasn't changed at all since their formation, I will have to honestly say Brian Marshall and Scott Phillips of Alter Bridge/Creed. 

For Creed, it's mainly Mark Tremonti's guitar riffs and Scott Stapp's "interesting" lyrics (later his early 2000 off-stage antics) that made that band famous.  For Alter Bridge, the songwriting has always been built around Mark Tremonti and Myles Kennedy's guitar ideas/parts where they build songs together based on parts that they thought about from time to time and Flip and Brian fills in the blanks.  It's also quite glaring on how when AB/Creed is not active, Mark and Myles have important roles in other bands whereas Flip and Brian does studio work from time to time with unknown bands and Brian Marshall is actually a realtor on the side.

[SystematicThought]

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.

Interesting, I had never really thought of those two but I think you're right. As long as they seemed close like these guys do and have that camaraderie, then I definitely think that they would have achieved the same success.

[bundy]

Art Garfunkel.
He is a very great singer, but without Paul Simons songs, I think he never would have enjoyed the success he had.

Definitely agree, although as longtime S&G fanboy, I cannot image many of those songs without Garfunkel's vocal contributions. I don't care who covers BOTW there is only one version that counts and much as my local radio station announcers regularly ask "How awesome is that?" every time they play Disturbed's (fairly decent I must admit) cover of Sounds of Silence, it still sounds like excrement to me when compared to either studio album (Wednesday Morning 3AM / SOS) version that S&G released. Garfunkel's lead and harmony vocals took Simon's compositions into the stratosphere as far I'm concerned. Go listen to Cloudy, 59th St Bridge Song or The Dangling Conversation and and tell me that that these two didn't bring out the best in each other.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.

Interesting, I had never really thought of those two but I think you're right. As long as they seemed close like these guys do and have that camaraderie, then I definitely think that they would have achieved the same success.

As far as Chris goes, Hysteria proves otherwise.

[mikeyd23]

As much as it pains me to say this, even if I do say that it wouldn't be Alter Bridge without those guys since the line-up hasn't changed at all since their formation, I will have to honestly say Brian Marshall and Scott Phillips of Alter Bridge/Creed. 

For Creed, it's mainly Mark Tremonti's guitar riffs and Scott Stapp's "interesting" lyrics (later his early 2000 off-stage antics) that made that band famous.  For Alter Bridge, the songwriting has always been built around Mark Tremonti and Myles Kennedy's guitar ideas/parts where they build songs together based on parts that they thought about from time to time and Flip and Brian fills in the blanks.  It's also quite glaring on how when AB/Creed is not active, Mark and Myles have important roles in other bands whereas Flip and Brian does studio work from time to time with unknown bands and Brian Marshall is actually a realtor on the side.

It pains me to say that you are probably right. Flip and Brian are both unique players but I definitely think they fall into the category of "lucky" as it applies to this thread.

[Fritzinger]

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.

Interesting, I had never really thought of those two but I think you're right. As long as they seemed close like these guys do and have that camaraderie, then I definitely think that they would have achieved the same success.

As far as Chris goes, Hysteria proves otherwise.

Hysteria has a cool distorted bass line. But characteristic? Or innovative like the hundreds of ideas that Bellamy brings in? Not really.

[KevShmev]

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.

Interesting, I had never really thought of those two but I think you're right. As long as they seemed close like these guys do and have that camaraderie, then I definitely think that they would have achieved the same success.

As far as Chris goes, Hysteria proves otherwise.

Hysteria has a cool distorted bass line. But characteristic? Or innovative like the hundreds of ideas that Bellamy brings in? Not really.

Bellamy is definitely the straw that stirs the Muse drink, but let's not sell Chris Wolstenholme short.  He definitely has some unique sounds and some bad ass bass lines.  Hysteria stands out, but that fuzzy sound in Time Is Running Out is pretty symbolic in what is certainly one of their most popular songs, and all of that stuff he does in Madness adds most of the musical character to that song (also one of their biggest).

[Fritzinger]

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.

Interesting, I had never really thought of those two but I think you're right. As long as they seemed close like these guys do and have that camaraderie, then I definitely think that they would have achieved the same success.

As far as Chris goes, Hysteria proves otherwise.

Hysteria has a cool distorted bass line. But characteristic? Or innovative like the hundreds of ideas that Bellamy brings in? Not really.

Bellamy is definitely the straw that stirs the Muse drink, but let's not sell Chris Wolstenholme short.  He definitely has some unique sounds and some bad ass bass lines.  Hysteria stands out, but that fuzzy sound in Time Is Running Out is pretty symbolic in what is certainly one of their most popular songs, and all of that stuff he does in Madness adds most of the musical character to that song (also one of their biggest).

I agree, I didn't want to make it sound like they have provided nothing to the band's sound, but I think it's nothing that another good drummer/ another good bass player could have done.

[SystematicThought]

I'll throw Undisclosed Desires in as another example of Chris' style and sound

[TempusVox]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

[Prog Snob]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

Actors with instruments. 

[Mosh]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

Strongly disagree with most of that. Gene has a really good lyrical McCartney-esque style to his bass playing and is known to be really proficient live.
Paul in his prime was one of the best rock singers and his voice held up fairly well up until just recently. He's also a good rhythm guitarist. Like Gene, could really hold it together live despite all the running around and theatrics.
Ace was inconsistent and a pretty mediocre guitarist, but had a real penchant for great melodies in his solos. Prime example of intuition overcoming technical proficiency (or lack thereof).

I do agree on Peter and that the theatrics is what made them famous. Also one of those bands that only worked because of the chemistry between the four guys. Still doesn't make them bad players.

[Lynxo]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

Strongly disagree with most of that. Gene has a really good lyrical McCartney-esque style to his bass playing and is known to be really proficient live.
Paul in his prime was one of the best rock singers and his voice held up fairly well up until just recently. He's also a good rhythm guitarist. Like Gene, could really hold it together live despite all the running around and theatrics.
Ace was inconsistent and a pretty mediocre guitarist, but had a real penchant for great melodies in his solos. Prime example of intuition overcoming technical proficiency (or lack thereof).

I do agree on Peter and that the theatrics is what made them famous. Also one of those bands that only worked because of the chemistry between the four guys. Still doesn't make them bad players.

I also disagree with some of that. Paul Stanley, especially in the 80s, is one of my favorite rock n roll singers. This shows why (especially the wailing ending): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8GnyfxrNEg

However, Peter has always been terrible and Ace was too drunk most of the time.

[bundy]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

I think you are being a bit harsh on them. Sure they probably would not have made any where near the money they did without the makeup and brilliant marketing, but this was more down to astute management and Simmons slick business/marketing skills than sheer good luck. Despite the makeup, they still had some killer tracks.

[Stadler]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

Strongly disagree with most of that. Gene has a really good lyrical McCartney-esque style to his bass playing and is known to be really proficient live.
Paul in his prime was one of the best rock singers and his voice held up fairly well up until just recently. He's also a good rhythm guitarist. Like Gene, could really hold it together live despite all the running around and theatrics.
Ace was inconsistent and a pretty mediocre guitarist, but had a real penchant for great melodies in his solos. Prime example of intuition overcoming technical proficiency (or lack thereof).

I do agree on Peter and that the theatrics is what made them famous. Also one of those bands that only worked because of the chemistry between the four guys. Still doesn't make them bad players.

I'm an admitted fan boy, but I'm with Mosh; I think they get short shrift on the musicianship point.  I know, I know, Rick Neilson is famous for saying Gene sucks at bass, but he does a whole lot more than just thumb the root note, and as Mosh said, live, he delivers the goods.  The one show where Paul was sick, Gene fronted the band as a three-piece and it was actually pretty damn good.   And Paul... he's arguably one of the five best frontmen in rock history.  His vocals have been solid as a rock - live - for the better part of 30 years, and other than Dio and Dickenson (maybe) no other metal/rock singer can claim that.   I've been lucky enough to see them in every decade since the 80's, and up until the last tour (the co-headliner with Def Leppard, which I took my 15 year old to to see the "spectacle"; she later put a picture of the RaRAN finale on Instagram with the caption "The greatest night of my life!") his vocals were ROCK SOLID and strong. 

Ace is hit or miss live; I've seen him light it up (MSG in '96) and I've seen him suck ass (Tuxedo Junction in Danbury in... late '80's early 90's, solo).   But he is by far the most influential player - not "actor", not "character", but PLAYER - in the band.   There are guys dead and buried with his image tattooed on their bodies.  That says something.   He may not be Ed Van Halen or Yngvie (he's not) but he is one of the very few that you hear them play and you know who it is straight away.   

I'm with you on Peter.  I saw the Kiss/Aerosmith tour, his last with the band (Tommy was already on guitar) and it SUCKED.  He was SO off tempo, and you could see Gene and Paul continually looking back at him.  I'm convinced that there was another drummer backstage out of sight, because there were times where it barely looked like he was playing, and yet the show went on (they were actually, as a band, pretty good that night). 

[TAC]

    And Paul... he's arguably one of the five best frontmen in rock history.  His vocals have been solid as a rock - live - for the better part of 30 years, and other than Dio and Dickenson (maybe) no other metal/rock singer can claim that.   

No fucking question about it. None.

[ReaperKK]

I just watched a Peter Criss drum cam video; wow, just wow .

[Kotowboy]

I just watched a Peter Criss drum cam video; wow, just wow .

Bad is he ?  care to link me ?

[ReaperKK]

I mean he isn't the worst drummer on the planet but I mean I was definitely expecting a bit more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1STcwfWhug

[Kotowboy]

Yeah I saw that . It's like he's putting no effort in at all.

[DragonAttack]

^
Unless they were doing '100,000 Years', 'Black Diamond', or his solo, did anyone pay attention to him during a concert?  Unless he was bad, of course.  I thought he did what he was supposed to do, which was simply to keep the beat for these two songs.  Paul was the one who was off a couple of times, which often was the case from trying to give 110% a bit too often.

[rumborak]

Yeah I saw that . It's like he's putting no effort in at all.

The chewing gum, and the bobbing of the head halfway in did not help.

[Fritzinger]

Wow, sorry to all the Kiss fans here. But this was the first time I really listened to a Kiss song, apart from their known hits.. It just sounds terrible to me. No good guitar sound or solo, the singer is croaking instead of singing, and man that drummer... no wonder he looks bored af.. his playing is also pretty boring...

[BlobVanDam]

Peter Criss is definitely the lucky member of KISS, and by the point they'd reunited there, the only appeal was that he was an original member. There are worse clips of Criss from the reunion tour, but even at his best, he had no power or energy left, and he thinks much more highly of himself than he ought to.

The rest of the band members however, I'd argue were crucial to the success of the band.
Paul Stanley was the key songwriter, and an underrated singer and frontman in general. He is the main voice of KISS, and the band could not have survived without him, especially during the '80s when they relied on him more than ever.
Gene Simmons isn't the best singer or bass player, but his bass lines have always been memorable and melodic, and he also contributed to songwriting and vocals, although he was never as strong a songwriter as Paul. He's also perhaps the most recognizable and iconic member of the band, and sang many signature songs, and I think he was critical to the business side of the band and getting them off the ground too.
Ace Frehley I'd say was also an important factor. Again, not the flashiest player, and not one of the best of the era, but he had such a distinctive style that became a key part of the band's sound, and was a big influence on many later guitarists. Maybe they would have gotten by with another guitarist, but it would have changed the band drastically.

Peter Criss was a competent drummer back in the day, but I think you could have put any other decent drummer in his place, and not have lost much at all. He had a nice voice, and sang some good songs, but I don't think any of his contributions were instrumental to their success. He was lucky back in the day, and downright blessed to be brought back in the '90s and later.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I love watching prog fans discuss Kiss.  It's like asking me to discuss football.  Difference is that THIS time, everyone's been fairly respectful, unlike the usual deluge of "lol kiss sucks I troll you" posts that typically come up, so I'll call this progress. 

Paul was unquestionably born to be a frontman.  Great singer, great entertainer, great energy.  As Mosh said, Gene has a McCatrney-esque walking bass style, which gave an added oomph in all the right places.  Ace has been cited as an influence by so many guitarists, it isn't even funny.  For example:

https://ridethewind.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/rock-guitarists-inspired-by-ace-frehley-to-pick-up-and-play-guitar/

I agree that Peter was definitely the lucky one.  This says it better than I could.

Peter Criss was a competent drummer back in the day, but I think you could have put any other decent drummer in his place, and not have lost much at all. He had a nice voice, and sang some good songs, but I don't think any of his contributions were instrumental to their success. He was lucky back in the day, and downright blessed to be brought back in the '90s and later.

Also, Lynxo, I hadn't seen that video of I Want You.  Fantastic video of Paul nailing it.

[Kotowboy]

Peter Criss is definitely the lucky member of KISS, and by the point they'd reunited there, the only appeal was that he was an original member. There are worse clips of Criss from the reunion tour, but even at his best, he had no power or energy left, and he thinks much more highly of himself than he ought to.

They must have compressed his kit to buggery live because it looks like he's barely making contact with anything.

Say what you will about lars Ulrich but he loves bashing that kit and definitely looks like he's enjoying it.

[Lynxo]

Peter Criss is definitely the lucky member of KISS, and by the point they'd reunited there, the only appeal was that he was an original member. There are worse clips of Criss from the reunion tour, but even at his best, he had no power or energy left, and he thinks much more highly of himself than he ought to.

They must have compressed his kit to buggery live because it looks like he's barely making contact with anything.

I read that for his drum solo, they had to trigger samples to make it sound good. And yeah, why the fuck Peter Criss wants his own drum solo is beyond me.

[BlobVanDam]

Peter Criss is definitely the lucky member of KISS, and by the point they'd reunited there, the only appeal was that he was an original member. There are worse clips of Criss from the reunion tour, but even at his best, he had no power or energy left, and he thinks much more highly of himself than he ought to.

They must have compressed his kit to buggery live because it looks like he's barely making contact with anything.

I read that for his drum solo, they had to trigger samples to make it sound good. And yeah, why the fuck Peter Criss wants his own drum solo is beyond me.

Peter Criss thinks more highly of himself than Peter Criss should. Also, the band/audience needs to take a piss somewhere. That's what drum solos are designed for.
I've read that they triggered his kit (at least for when they reformed in 2003). I don't think compression alone could get anything usable out of those piss weak hits.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Peter Criss thinks more highly of himself than Peter Criss should.

This.

[Kotowboy]

Another thing you can't say about Lars. Find one interview or quote of his - at least post 2000 - where he says " i'm such a great drummer ".

I know he's said he thinks he is great at just backing up James but never like : " I'm so good "...

Post 2000 at least it's been mostly " why aren't I as good as I used to be " or " i'm nowhere near Portnoy or Lombardo levels ".

[Stadler]

Wow, sorry to all the Kiss fans here. But this was the first time I really listened to a Kiss song, apart from their known hits.. It just sounds terrible to me. No good guitar sound or solo, the singer is croaking instead of singing, and man that drummer... no wonder he looks bored af.. his playing is also pretty boring...

Compare that to the Winterland '75 video in the Kissology Box Set.   A band absolutely on FIRE.  That video is why they were for a period the biggest band in the world.

I've already bagged on Criss, but he had his moments; his playing on the "Hotter Than Hell" album is pretty solid, as is "Destroyer" and "Rock and Roll Over".   If you think he's delusional about his abilities, you should read his biography.  Oy.  To hear him tell it, he carried that wastrel Ace and the two Jews (his words, not mine) on his back for YEARS, and they should be grateful. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

To hear him tell it, he carried that wastrel Ace and the two Jews (his words, not mine) on his back for YEARS, and they should be grateful.

Peter Criss thinks more highly of himself than Peter Criss should.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Eric Carr was 1000x better than Peter Criss and should be mentioned in the other thread.

[sneakyblueberry]

Peter Criss is definitely the lucky member of KISS, and by the point they'd reunited there, the only appeal was that he was an original member. There are worse clips of Criss from the reunion tour, but even at his best, he had no power or energy left, and he thinks much more highly of himself than he ought to.

They must have compressed his kit to buggery live because it looks like he's barely making contact with anything.

I read that for his drum solo, they had to trigger samples to make it sound good. And yeah, why the fuck Peter Criss wants his own drum solo is beyond me.

Peter Criss thinks more highly of himself than Peter Criss should. Also, the band/audience needs to take a piss somewhere. That's what drum solos are designed for.
I've read that they triggered his kit (at least for when they reformed in 2003). I don't think compression alone could get anything usable out of those piss weak hits.

I don't know anything about KISS but I would think that there were definitely triggers on everything here, bar the cymbals. 

Not uncommon.  Vinnie Paul used triggers all throughout Pantera's run and probably still with whatever redneck hick shit he's doing today.  Blake from BTBAM has them on his kick at least, same as Joey Jordision.  Meg White used them   For some drummers it's a way to get their tone dialled in on tours where there they can't take their own soundman or whatever, for others it's a bit of a cheapo way of getting power without the effort, which is what Criss is up to I'd say. 

[BlobVanDam]

Peter Criss is definitely the lucky member of KISS, and by the point they'd reunited there, the only appeal was that he was an original member. There are worse clips of Criss from the reunion tour, but even at his best, he had no power or energy left, and he thinks much more highly of himself than he ought to.

They must have compressed his kit to buggery live because it looks like he's barely making contact with anything.

I read that for his drum solo, they had to trigger samples to make it sound good. And yeah, why the fuck Peter Criss wants his own drum solo is beyond me.

Peter Criss thinks more highly of himself than Peter Criss should. Also, the band/audience needs to take a piss somewhere. That's what drum solos are designed for.
I've read that they triggered his kit (at least for when they reformed in 2003). I don't think compression alone could get anything usable out of those piss weak hits.

I don't know anything about KISS but I would think that there were definitely triggers on everything here, bar the cymbals. 

Not uncommon.  Vinnie Paul used triggers all throughout Pantera's run and probably still with whatever redneck hick shit he's doing today.  Blake from BTBAM has them on his kick at least, same as Joey Jordision.  Meg White used them   For some drummers it's a way to get their tone dialled in on tours where there they can't take their own soundman or whatever, for others it's a bit of a cheapo way of getting power without the effort, which is what Criss is up to I'd say. 

It's not uncommon in metal, especially for the bass drum, to get an even double kicker, and to give it that metal sound to emulate the production on the studio albums.
For Peter Criss, it was probably their only option to get something usable out of him.