Author Topic: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)  (Read 48219 times)

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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #910 on: February 11, 2019, 07:18:11 AM »
"Well, it happened again. Amy Klobuchar announced that she is running for President, talking proudly of fighting global warming while standing in a virtual blizzard of snow, ice and freezing temperatures. Bad timing. By the end of her speech she looked like a Snowman(woman)!"

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1094718856197799936

The President of the United States is still struggling with 3rd grade earth science. This may or may not be connected with his dismissal of his own government's National Climate Assessment (pain-stakingly compiled by "300 leading scientists") last November without reading it, because "I don't believe it".

What that tweet is really about though - other than announcing to the world's leaders that it is useless to try and talk with the American President on any remotely intellectual level - is getting in the critical first shot at another woman who has decided to run against him. Anything that can diminish them, 'embarrass' them, (a woman giving a speech in cold weather, what an idiot. Why didn't she just fly down to the Florida sun for the weekend and play some golf?), and - as someone whose entire set of concerns begin and end with appearances - anything that brings attention to how they appear (this tweet is yet another example of Donald Trump's obsession with finding ways to describe how women who oppose him looked when they spoke; the sillier and more pathetic he can make them, the better, whether it's Mika Brzezinki "bleeding from a botched facelift" or "Horseface" Stephanie Clifford or "fat, ugly" Rosie O'Donnell or "begging on her knees" Omarosa Newman or mocking the faces of Carly Fiorina and Heidi Cruz or...[continued on page 2]).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 07:26:40 AM by Dave_Manchester »
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, September 26th 2018.

Online Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #911 on: February 11, 2019, 08:46:14 AM »
I think he's talking about how Donnie capitalized "TRAIL" and trying to mock/refer the Trail of Tears. A bit of a stretch as far as the connection goes, but I wouldn't put it past Donnie.

Not a comment directed at you, Lonestar, but a general question:  So Trump's too stupid to recognize global warming, or relatively recent Afghanistan history, but he's sly enough to make implicit coded references ("dog whistles" in the Democratic vernacular) to genocidal events from almost 200 years ago?  Sounds consistent and plausible to me.   

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #912 on: February 11, 2019, 09:01:09 AM »
Trump's bizarre HABIT of capitalising completely random WORDS in sentences, as well as "putting" quotation marks "around" words that have no earthly reason to warrant "them", makes it difficult to know why he does what he does. TRAIL may have been bait. Or it may just have been Trump doing what Trump does, and emphasising particular words for baffling reasons. I wouldn't put it past him to be goading people with the 'trail of tears', but I also wouldn't publicly wonder about it, lest I be called a hyper-sensitive snowflake.

What is certain however is that someone replied to Trump's tweet with the delightful observation that "The Native American genocide continues with another murder by the president". Why does it matter what some idiot on the internet said? Because the charming Donald Trump Jr liked the comment and replied: "Savage!!! Love my president" (though again proceed with caution if you want to openly question his use of the word "savage", yer bunch of hysterical drama queens).

So let me follow this...

Trump (wrongly, to be sure, let's not lose perspective here) attacks Liz Warren, who took advantage of a cultural angle for HER advantage, and he's wrong because someone somewhere equated the "campaign trail" - an almost overused expression describing the runup to the primaries - to Native American genocide.   Then someone responds by LITERALLY accusing the President of murder, in what one would not unreasonably call a gross overstatement - dare I say a "violent, uncontrolled, vicious" (I'm sure Dave sees where I'm going with this) overstatement, that goes completely unremarked on, because, well, it's Trump so he deserves it.   Trump, Jr. then responds with what could be an insensitive tonedeaf statement on Native Americans but which could be, equally as plausibly (since his girlfriend is a very smart, very well-educated and very media-savvy professional) be a clever ripost indicating that the "savagery" - meaning, the callous disregard for Native American history - isn't just the purview of Trump but also his detractors.   

I get it; we're talking about the PRESIDENT and so his standard is higher than someone with the (in my view) telling Twitter handle "Michael Malice" (and by the way, if you're familiar with "Michael Malice", it shouldn't be an absolute given that he is lambasting the President, though it sure seems like it).   But I reject this notion that every word out of his mouth is an egregious identity politics slander.  Some of this is a case of "to a hammer, everything is a nail".   


Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #913 on: February 11, 2019, 09:16:16 AM »
I think he's talking about how Donnie capitalized "TRAIL" and trying to mock/refer the Trail of Tears. A bit of a stretch as far as the connection goes, but I wouldn't put it past Donnie.

Not a comment directed at you, Lonestar, but a general question:  So Trump's too stupid to recognize global warming, or relatively recent Afghanistan history, but he's sly enough to make implicit coded references ("dog whistles" in the Democratic vernacular) to genocidal events from almost 200 years ago?  Sounds consistent and plausible to me.   

Which is it to you? Is he too stupid to know what emphasizing TRAIL in this context means, or is he being malicious? You, by your own logic, have to pick one.

Seems pretty obvious how his son took it. He also previously joked about Wounded Knee, site of a massacre of native Americans. When mocking Warren by tweet.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 09:35:02 AM by portnoy311 »

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #914 on: February 11, 2019, 09:48:22 AM »
I think he's talking about how Donnie capitalized "TRAIL" and trying to mock/refer the Trail of Tears. A bit of a stretch as far as the connection goes, but I wouldn't put it past Donnie.

Not a comment directed at you, Lonestar, but a general question:  So Trump's too stupid to recognize global warming, or relatively recent Afghanistan history, but he's sly enough to make implicit coded references ("dog whistles" in the Democratic vernacular) to genocidal events from almost 200 years ago?  Sounds consistent and plausible to me.   

Which is it to you? Is he too stupid to know what emphasizing TRAIL in this context means, or is he being malicious? You, by your own logic, have to pick one.

Me?  Personally?  Well, with the caveat that I have no idea because I deeply believe it's relevant that I've never met the man and it's against my nature (and in my view, sometimes even reckless, as when trying to psychoanalyze someone) to characterize someone completely by their tweets, based on what I've seen and read, I would guess - and that's what it is - that he's smarter than the critics say he is and not as well-read or in-depth as the supporters wish him to be.   I also think that it's not a static analysis across the board: I think he knows more about the concept of global warming than he let's on, but doesn't let "truth" get in the way of a general position statement (but I wouldn't be surprised if he has no idea of the history of the Afghan peoples).  I've said this (and in fact, to you) before:  I DO know the science (I was Environmental Counsel for a Fortune 5 company that was DEEPLY interested in global warming from about five different angles, and spend millions of dollars on their own independent research) and I find myself having to make arguments that are uncomfortably close to specious on specific items in order to maintain a more accurate comprehensive take on things.  Put another way, I can agree that global warming is real, I can agree that man has a meaningful and statistically significant impact on it, but not agree that by accepting the first two, I automatically am signed up for the economic ruin that would follow from most of the more popular responses to global warming.  I can absolutely see Trump holding a position somewhat similar to this.   

I think his focus is on the candidates and knocking them on the defensive, far FAR more than it is to blow "dog whistles" at the almost statistically insignificant number of racists that might get a boner over a Native American genocide reference.   He's more interested in getting the jump on these candidates with anything that sways the narrative to the negative.  He knows full well that there is a swell of initial interest and hype with these candidates, and he's more interested in the PR aspect of cutting some of that off at the knees.   He's also not interested in parsing words and agonizing over whether someone somewhere is going to take what he says out of context and twist it. 

Quote

Seems pretty obvious how his son took it. He also previously joked about Wounded Knee, site of a massacre of native Americans. When mocking Warren by tweet.

Yeah, I don't think it's obvious at all.   It is if that's what you want to see, but not every reference to a circumstance or event is necessarily disparaging to the reference.

There was an episode of The Sopranos, where Christopher was helping, with his connections, Adriana to work as a music producer. And she had a guy in there, singer-songwriter guy Richie Santini (who she used to date) and he wasn't listening to her. So finally Christopher walks up to him and says something like "Hey Paul Fucking McCartney, this isn't your show" and he hits Santini with his own guitar.   Now, Christopher wasn't making fun of Paul McCartney. He wasn't disparaging or making light of the Beatles.  He wasn't in any way shape or form making ANY comment on either of them.  What he WAS doing was belittling Santini and humiliating him with a reference that was way out of his league.  I think there's an element of that here. 

Sure, you can think that's tasteless, or inappropriate (and you might even be right), but the intent of showing racist bona fides?  I don't think so.  Again, with the caveats I posted above. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 10:01:41 AM by Stadler »

Offline El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #915 on: February 11, 2019, 09:53:04 AM »
I have no idea what y'alls greater point is, I'm sitting this one out, but somebody on Trump's crew definitely likes to drop in messages about the Injuns. This was absolutely intentional.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #916 on: February 11, 2019, 10:03:23 AM »
My point is only that the knee-jerk reaction that Trump is just sitting on his toilet phone at the ready to make another racist, bigoted comment is probably over-doing it some.  I'm not at all saying that they are WRONG, necessarily, I'm saying that other, non-racist, non-bigoted explanations are given short shrift or ignored outright because it's Trump.   

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #917 on: February 11, 2019, 10:28:46 AM »


There was an episode of The Sopranos, where Christopher was helping, with his connections, Adriana to work as a music producer. And she had a guy in there, singer-songwriter guy Richie Santini (who she used to date) and he wasn't listening to her. So finally Christopher walks up to him and says something like "Hey Paul Fucking McCartney, this isn't your show" and he hits Santini with his own guitar.   Now, Christopher wasn't making fun of Paul McCartney. He wasn't disparaging or making light of the Beatles.  He wasn't in any way shape or form making ANY comment on either of them.  What he WAS doing was belittling Santini and humiliating him with a reference that was way out of his league.  I think there's an element of that here. 


That conversation did not happened that way in that episode of the Sopranos. The only time the Beatles are mentioned in that scene is when the engineer talks about She Loves You and how the song begins with the chorus and that is how you build a song.  Richie then disparages the Beatles by saying it's been 40 years and he's sick of it, to which Christopher incredulously utters, "What is he, nuts?!"  Christopher later hit him with his own guitar when Richie refused to take the drugs Chrissy threw at him and tried to leave.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #918 on: February 11, 2019, 12:01:12 PM »
My point is only that the knee-jerk reaction that Trump is just sitting on his toilet phone at the ready to make another racist, bigoted comment is probably over-doing it some.  I'm not at all saying that they are WRONG, necessarily, I'm saying that other, non-racist, non-bigoted explanations are given short shrift or ignored outright because it's Trump.

Stadler, you "knee jerk" lectured me (yet again) before you even took a moment's consideration to understand what I was referencing.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #919 on: February 11, 2019, 12:05:51 PM »
My point is only that the knee-jerk reaction that Trump is just sitting on his toilet phone at the ready to make another racist, bigoted comment is probably over-doing it some.  I'm not at all saying that they are WRONG, necessarily, I'm saying that other, non-racist, non-bigoted explanations are given short shrift or ignored outright because it's Trump.

Stadler, you "knee jerk" lectured me (yet again) before you even took a moment's consideration to understand what I was referencing.

I wasn't at all referring to you. And I responded, I think anway, very thoughtfully and considerately to your post. 

Offline axeman90210

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #920 on: February 11, 2019, 12:43:39 PM »
I think he's talking about how Donnie capitalized "TRAIL" and trying to mock/refer the Trail of Tears. A bit of a stretch as far as the connection goes, but I wouldn't put it past Donnie.

Not a comment directed at you, Lonestar, but a general question:  So Trump's too stupid to recognize global warming, or relatively recent Afghanistan history, but he's sly enough to make implicit coded references ("dog whistles" in the Democratic vernacular) to genocidal events from almost 200 years ago?  Sounds consistent and plausible to me.   

So because he doesn't (or doesn't want to) grasp physics/climate science he can't make a clever racist joke? Come on now. I don't rule out the possibility that he knows climate change is real and is just feigning ignorance because that's what's required of him politically, but at face value he's displaying no knowledge/comprehension and there's nothing else in his behavior or past to suggest that he does have it, so I operate under the assumption that he just doesn't know. When he writes a tweet that could have a well hidden racist dig embedded or could just be a coincidence, I look to his history of racist behavior and it's not a leap to think that the former is more likely.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #921 on: February 11, 2019, 12:43:50 PM »
he's smarter than the critics say he is and not as well-read or in-depth as the supporters wish him to be.   I also think that it's not a static analysis across the board: I think he knows more about the concept of global warming than he let's on, but doesn't let "truth" get in the way of a general position statement (but I wouldn't be surprised if he has no idea of the history of the Afghan peoples). 

I'll get to why I've quoted the above in a minute, but to respond to your more general point (that some people hate Trump so much that it influences how they interpret things), that is no doubt true (as it was for those who concluded Obama was a closet Muslim every time he suggested working with Iran). For me personally though, it has nothing to do with Donald Trump. 3 years ago I had no problem with him. His cameos in Home Alone 2 and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air were kinda fun, and that was pretty much the extent of my exposure to him. It was a simpler time.

My problem is not that he is Trump. It is that he is the president of a country whose decisions and actions affect the world to a degree that no other country (currently) does. This level of individual stupidity and, compounding that, arrogance that now occupies the White House is not normal. It just isn't. And one of the most dangerous things that can happen is to become accustomed to this type of profoundly uninformed and incurious person. Or else, as you often point out, whatever the fuck replaces him is going to be even more horrific.     

And that is why I've quoted the above. What leads you to think he knows more about global warming than he lets on? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm genuinely asking what about his tweets, his campaign speeches, his rally speeches and his interviews has brought you to that conclusion? 

And, more importantly, why is he not letting on that he knows more than he does? As someone with an all-consuming obsession with how he is perceived; as someone who, despite his attacks on the media, has a desperate childlike craving for their approval; as someone whose vanity and self-obsession is something even he proudly admits to; as someone who is hypersensitive to the suggestion that he is stupid, to the point of endlessly tweeting about his IQ and how he knows "more than anyone" about every subject in the world: why is this vain and boastful narcissist pretending to be illiterate, uninformed, disinterested in detail, and ignorant of his own country's history, let alone world history? That's some serious 4D underwater chess that I'm just not getting. If Trump is not as stupid as he seems, why (apparently of his own cunning design) does he seem so stupid? What is the long game there?

When I suggest he's tossing out carefully-selected red meat for his base in his tweets (about global warming, or about the Bible, or about "Middle Easteners"), the response I receive is that his base is too politically insignificant to warrant such a wily rabble-rousing plan. And so why does he do it, in your opinion? Why the endluss Speling mistayks in His tweats that Cause even the Non-inglish speeking Werld to Laff at Him? Why the constant reminders that he doesn't understand the difference between weather and climate, something that schoolchildren are taught? Why the rambling, incoherent 'lecture' on 20th century Afghan-Soviet relations? Why the childlike vocabulary and sentence-structure when he speaks? Why the constantly-advertised unawareness of what is happening in the Middle East? Come to that, why the constant reminders that he has no clue what and where the 'Middle East' actually is?

Again I ask, if Trump is smarter than he appears, then why does he constantly appear to be dumb as shit on all the subjects that a President can't afford to be dumb as shit about (he may be a great real estate salesman; I don't know or care, because it's not his job)? And if he had any kind of integrity or concern for the country that he claims to love more than those black "sons of bitches" who kneel for the anthem, why does he not make an effort to learn about the subjects? What's the strategy he's employing here?

I know it's already been addressed, but coming back to the TRAIL tweet: your rejection of the idea that Trump is baiting Native Americans was that he could simply be so ignorant as to not know what the trail of tears was (and by the way if there is a single American adult who does NOT know what the trail of tears was then my contempt for your education system would be exceeded only by my better understanding of how so many Americans are able to maintain the fiction that their country is the greatest gift to civilisation; if you cover up your atrocities then it all makes clearer sense). Which is why I keep on emphasising: this is the American President we are talking about here. How can he not know about this event in his country's history? How is it relevant that the genocide took place "200 years ago"? What on earth kind of excuse is that for not knowing your own country's history (Jesus was around 2000 years ago, good luck getting the Republican vote not knowing the rough events surrounding that bit of history). It is no intellectually harder to learn about what happened last week than it is to learn about what happened 200 years ago, why do we need to bend over backwards to make excuses for the stupid shit Trump constantly says, or the things about which he shamelessly advertises his ignorance?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 02:52:23 PM by Dave_Manchester »
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Online Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #922 on: February 11, 2019, 01:40:27 PM »
I think he's talking about how Donnie capitalized "TRAIL" and trying to mock/refer the Trail of Tears. A bit of a stretch as far as the connection goes, but I wouldn't put it past Donnie.

Not a comment directed at you, Lonestar, but a general question:  So Trump's too stupid to recognize global warming, or relatively recent Afghanistan history, but he's sly enough to make implicit coded references ("dog whistles" in the Democratic vernacular) to genocidal events from almost 200 years ago?  Sounds consistent and plausible to me.   

So because he doesn't (or doesn't want to) grasp physics/climate science he can't make a clever racist joke? Come on now. I don't rule out the possibility that he knows climate change is real and is just feigning ignorance because that's what's required of him politically, but at face value he's displaying no knowledge/comprehension and there's nothing else in his behavior or past to suggest that he does have it, so I operate under the assumption that he just doesn't know. When he writes a tweet that could have a well hidden racist dig embedded or could just be a coincidence, I look to his history of racist behavior and it's not a leap to think that the former is more likely.

Well, I get your point and of course, as a general rule, you're correct.  But I would - respectfully, always, and with the intent of keeping the discussion going - quibble with the inevitability of your assumptions.  A fancy way of saying that of COURSE you could be right.   But I don't think it's a given that "his behavior" is indicative of any insight - ESPECIALLY with global warming. Look, I get it; the majority of scientists agree with the science that says the planet is warming.  It's NOT unequivocal, and in fact, I don't find it questionable at all to say "I agree that the planet is warming, I agree that man contributed to that" but not want to buy in to all that follows.   Trump is not a subtle guy, and doesn't deal with subtleties.  It's not - in my opinion - for lack of awareness, but rather because he's got 50 years of opening watermelons with sledgehammers that reinforces that approach.  Likewise with his alleged "racist" behavior.  It's  at least a 50/50 shot whether I think the latest accusations of "racism" are that.   I find a lot of the so-called "racist" behavior to be specious in that regard.  Perhaps tasteless, perhaps lacking in any compassion or human civility, yes, but racist?  No.

So I don't discount your position, as your conclusions are not unreasonable in my view.  I just think there are equally plausible explanations that don't require him to be a screaming racist or a doddering dolt.   (And by the way, to further confuse the issues, he can still be wrong under both scenarios!)

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #923 on: February 11, 2019, 02:57:03 PM »
he's smarter than the critics say he is and not as well-read or in-depth as the supporters wish him to be.   I also think that it's not a static analysis across the board: I think he knows more about the concept of global warming than he let's on, but doesn't let "truth" get in the way of a general position statement (but I wouldn't be surprised if he has no idea of the history of the Afghan peoples). 

I'll get to why I've quoted the above in a minute, but to respond to your more general point (that some people hate Trump so much that it influences how they interpret things), that is no doubt true (as it was for those who concluded Obama was a closet Muslim every time he suggested working with Iran). For me personally though, it has nothing to do with Donald Trump. 3 years ago I had no problem with him. His cameos in Home Alone 2 and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air were kinda fun, and that was pretty much the extent of my exposure to him. It was a simpler time.

My problem is not that he is Trump. It is that he is the president of a country whose decisions and actions affect the world to a degree that no other country (currently) does. This level of individual stupidity and, compounding that, arrogance that now occupies the White House is not normal. It just isn't. And one of the most dangerous things that can happen is to become accustomed to this type of profoundly uninformed and incurious person. Or else, as you often point out, whatever the fuck replaces him is going to be even more horrific. 

But I think you know that my position on this is more complicated than that.  I don't disagree with you in concept, but a principle point underlying my posts here is that we've accepted that as normal for a while now.  The LEVEL - as in degree - may be unprecedented, but I don't at all believe he tipped the scales and we were fine before and now we're not.   We've been accustomed to the things that got us Trump since at least 1992, and since we (the American people) haven't been able to get our arms around that - you know the adage, the first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem - we're fucked.   Sure, Trump isn't subtle, but does it really matter that the fall of the empire is in a blaze of hedonistic, misogynist glory, or a steady, relentless grinding of the gears until failure?     

Quote
And that is why I've quoted the above. What leads you to think he knows more about global warming than he lets on? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm genuinely asking what about his tweets, his campaign speeches, his rally speeches and his interviews has brought you to that conclusion? 

Honestly? Because along the same lines as your thoughts on Manafort (though different context) I don't think you get to that level without having a basic understanding of that kind of thing.  You can still rationalize it, you can still worship the green manalishi with the two-pronged crown to the point that it clouds your judgment, but I just think it's far more likely that he knows and doesn't give a fuck in the face of the money to be made in denial (or at least in stalling the acceptance) than I do the level of just blind ignorance that would go into truly being ignorant of the underlying science.   Again, it's important to recognize that the underlying science, and the popular "solutions to the problem" are not the same thing.  I've done it myself; poo-pooing the science is sometimes an easier position to take, ESPECIALLY when the concept and issue is highly moralized, than the position that "sure, you're right, the planet is heating up, literally baking us alive, but I don't care and don't want to do anything about it."   

Quote
And, more importantly, why is he not letting on that he knows more than he does? As someone with an all-consuming obsession with how he is perceived; as someone who, despite his attacks on the media, has a desperate childlike craving for their approval; as someone whose vanity and self-obsession is something even he proudly admits to; as someone who is hypersensitive to the suggestion that he is stupid, to the point of endlessly tweeting about his IQ and how he knows "more than anyone" about every subject in the world: why is this vain and boastful narcissist pretending to be illiterate, uninformed, disinterested in detail, and shockingly ignorant of his own country's history, let alone world history? That's some serious 4D underwater chess that I'm just not getting. If Trump is not as stupid as he seems, why (apparently of his own cunning design) does he seem so stupid? What is the long game there?

Well, I'm out of my depth here, because I don't walk in those circles, but it depends on who the "approval" is coming from.  I TOTALLY agree with you here on your analysis - it's how I explain the Billy Bush interview; he wasn't confessing to sexual assualt, he wasn't outlining his past felonies and admitting to crime, he was showing how big his cock is to Billy Bush. That was pure, unadulterated, naked boasting.   But there's a degree to which the psyche realizes it cannot appease everyone, so it rationalizes.  It says I identify with this group, not that group, and so I can accept rejection from that group. 

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When I suggest he's tossing out carefully-selected red meat for his base in his tweets (about global warming, or about the Bible, or about "Middle Easteners"), the response I receive is that his base is too politically insignificant to warrant such a wily rabble-rousing plan. And so why does he do it, in your opinion? Why the endluss Speling mistayks in His tweats that Cause even the Non-inglish speeking Werld to Laff at Him? Why the constant reminders that he doesn't understand the difference between weather and climate, something that schoolchildren are taught? Why the rambling, incoherent 'lecture' on 20th century Afghan-Soviet relations? Why the childlike vocabulary and sentence-structure when he speaks? Why the constantly-advertised unawareness of what is happening in the Middle East? Come to that, why the constant reminders that he has no clue what and where the 'Middle East' actually is?

What I object to, specifically, is the inconsistency in the approach to Trump.  Not necessarily by you (actually, not at all by you) but generally.  He's alternately too stupid to breathe (like his SupportersTM, but so crafty as having had this plan for 20+ years to run for President, win it, and completely destroy democracy for his bud, Vlad.  Being slightly facetious with the examples, but not with the degree of inconsistency.   You asked me my opinion?  I honestly think he doesn't give a fuck from minute to minute.   All the things that you, and Bill, and Chad, et al. point to have varying degrees of reliance on him being a certain very specific way, but ALL have the common denominator of just not giving a fuck.   You've posted at these boards long enough; I have ZERO doubt that if I gave you 25 random posts from this section, you'd be able to tell me with 90+% accuracy how many of those were just tossed off the cuff and how many were thought through, if not in actual drafting, then at least in terms of cogent position.  One of the dead giveaways from our nemesis over at the old place was that his posts just seemed so... haphazard.  Not casual in the sense of two lines dashed off on the way to dinner with the wife, but casual in the sense of no coherent plan.  I think there's something to that with Trump.  I think the steady, incessant mocking from the late night folks (which you know he watches more than seasoned political pundits) have inured him to even caring about things like "spelling" and "syntax" (which, based on your background and your past references to Noam Chomsky and the like, you know to likely be unnoticed by him in the heat of the moment of posting). 

Again, all my supposition, because you asked.  I'm leery about answering you because it doesn't change my disdain for such speculation, and I reject my own out of hand, because I don't know.  But you asked and so I answered. 

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Again I ask, if Trump is smarter than he appears, then why does he constantly appear to be dumb as shit on all the subjects that a President can't afford to be dumb as shit about (he may be a great real estate salesman; I don't know or care, because it's not his job)? And if he had any kind of intergrity or concern for the country that he claims to love more than those black "sons of bitches" who kneel for the anthem, why does he not make an effort to learn about the subjects? What's the strategy he's employing here?

Asked and answered; there is no strategy, he just doesn't view them as important.  The things he cares about and the things he expresses are not related in the way you are implying.   

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I know it's already been addressed, but coming back to the TRAIL tweet: your rejection of the idea that Trump is baiting Native Americans was that he could simply be so ignorant as to not know what the trail of tears was (and by the way if there is a single American adult who does NOT know what the trail of tears was then my contempt for your education system would be exceeded only by my better understanding of how so many Americans are able to maintain the fiction that their country is the greatest gift to civilisation; if you cover up your atrocities then it all makes clearer sense).

Uh.... Dave...  do a poll.   I'll bet you not 50% out of a random 100 know what the Trail of Tears is.    The younger the sample, the less I wager, but 35 to 55?   Not a shot does that number cross 50 out of a 100. 

But back to your first point: I'm not necessarily REFUTING it, I'm positing the other alternative as equally reasonable.  I've maintained before "I don't know", but I also maintain "you (collective) don't either".  I'm just saying that in today's America, circa 2019, if it REFERENCES race or origin, it's deemed racist or bigoted.   I think that leads to skewed intent.  Our Representative Omar was talking about US funding of Israel, and there was an exchange about why the US woudl fund that, and she tweeted "It's all about the Benjamins", meaning, that politicians (specifically Kevin McCarthy a non-Jew) had sold out (she was implying that lobbyists were responsible for getting the funding). CNN - and the beautiful Brooke Baldwin - did 15 minutes on how equating "Jews" with "money" was anti-Semitic.  Omar is problematic at best, but at the least it's clear that's not what she meant.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/11/its-all-about-benjamins-baby-ilhan-omar-again-accused-anti-semitism-over-tweets/?utm_term=.404e23492b32

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Which is why I keep on emphasising: this is the American President we are talking about here. How can he not know about this event in his country's history? How is it relevant that the genocide took place "200 years ago"? What on earth kind of excuse is that for not knowing your own country's history (Jesus was around 2000 years ago, good luck getting the Republican vote not knowing the rough events surrounding that bit of history). It is no intellectually harder to learn about what happened last week than it is to learn about what happened 200 years ago, why do we need to bend over backwards to make excuses for the stupid shit Trump constantly says, or the things about which he shamelessly advertises his ignorance?

It's relevant because our country readily and willingly employs revisionist history to account for whatever the flavor of the month is.   I'm not arguing with you Dave; you SHOULD be incredulous.  And I'm not "bending over backwards" make excuses for the dumb shit Trump says.  It's a premise to the discussion that what he said is unnecessary and harmful.  I've made no bones of my disdain for his tweeting (and the platform in general as a means for discussing politics; this is partly why).   But that's not what the discussion is; it's about the substance of the statement, and I'm merely pointing out that there are multiple explanations, and that "Trump is a goddamn racist who can't wait to throw another minority under the bus with glee, with aforethought, and with cunning" is only one of them. 

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #924 on: February 13, 2019, 07:17:07 AM »
Going to let Sarah have the spotlight for a sec...

@PressSec "El Chapo’s reign of terror is over. He‘ll spend the rest of his life in a maximum security prison. The threat from violent drug cartels is real - we must secure our border"

Is she referring to the wall here? Didn't El Chapo escape prison through a tunnel?

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #925 on: February 15, 2019, 05:08:16 PM »
Donnie retweets (and pins the tweet) of an edited video of his SOTU to the tune of R.E.M.'s Everyone Hurts...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1096485376087097344
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Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #926 on: February 15, 2019, 06:55:38 PM »
Going to let Sarah have the spotlight for a sec...

@PressSec "El Chapo’s reign of terror is over. He‘ll spend the rest of his life in a maximum security prison. The threat from violent drug cartels is real - we must secure our border"

Is she referring to the wall here? Didn't El Chapo escape prison through a tunnel?


Also, I love this narrative. "We're so amazing at catching the criminals! That means we have to completely undermine technology and go for the "medieval wall" as the POTUS puts it."


If we're so good at catching criminals, how is this an emergency?!


Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #927 on: February 15, 2019, 07:45:24 PM »
If the Democrats had any level of imagination they'd cut a deal with the GOP by offering their 'thoughts and prayers' to counter this ludicrous made-up "invasion" that is apparently taking place on the southern border:

Trump: "What are you willing to give to solve this crisis that is killing thousands of Americans a week?"

Pelosi: "Thoughts and prayers, Mr President. The same fruitless shit you guys offer whenever someone blows a schoolfull of childrens' heads off"

I think Trump has made a mistake today. His 'speech'/press conference from the Rose Garden was stupid even by his standards ("He can speak for three hours without a phone call. For three hours he speaks. He's got one of the biggest audiences in the history of the world" - President Donald Trump announcing a national emergency by...errr, promoting Rush Limbaugh's radio show in front of the world's cameras, before heading off to the Florida sun to play some golf for the weekend despite America being "invaded"). I hope the Dems don't fumble this, because I don't think they will ever have a better chance to take his bullshit to task.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 05:07:39 AM by Dave_Manchester »
"As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron" - H.L.Mencken, 26th July 1920.

"China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very very large brain" - American President Donald Trump, September 26th 2018.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #928 on: February 17, 2019, 10:51:19 AM »
Guaranteed Dem's will fumble this, they almost always do.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #929 on: February 18, 2019, 07:53:13 AM »
Wel, they have a MORAL OBLIGATION to... whatever the f*** it is that they do.   Honestly, doesn't ANYONE take stock of themselves or their situation anymore?   Doesn't anyone stand in front of the mirror and ask "How did I/we get here, and what did I do to facilitate that?   And what can I do to make that trajectory more positive?"   Doubling down on what we've been doing for 20 years is not the answer, and presumably if these people are smart enough and capable enough of leading us, they should know this.   

It's a compounding process.  The more that people like Cory Booker demand that our public servants be perfect and never drank a beer or never had any sex or never had even one moment of careless abandon, the less aware, sensitive, and conscious people we will have in office.  Anyone with any reason would stay right the fuck out of politics (I even thought of running for local office and my wife said "Dude do you want any part of that nonsense?" and she was spot on correct.  I just don't have the gene to say the nonsense that politicians are expected to say these days). 

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #930 on: February 18, 2019, 07:59:45 AM »
Wel, they have a MORAL OBLIGATION to... whatever the f*** it is that they do.   Honestly, doesn't ANYONE take stock of themselves or their situation anymore?   Doesn't anyone stand in front of the mirror and ask "How did I/we get here, and what did I do to facilitate that?   And what can I do to make that trajectory more positive?"   Doubling down on what we've been doing for 20 years is not the answer, and presumably if these people are smart enough and capable enough of leading us, they should know this.   

It's a compounding process.  The more that people like Cory Booker demand that our public servants be perfect and never drank a beer or never had any sex or never had even one moment of careless abandon, the less aware, sensitive, and conscious people we will have in office.  Anyone with any reason would stay right the fuck out of politics (I even thought of running for local office and my wife said "Dude do you want any part of that nonsense?" and she was spot on correct.  I just don't have the gene to say the nonsense that politicians are expected to say these days).

I thought about running locally, and then I remembered my internet presence from the age of 12 to present day. I'd stand absolutely no chance. I'm very curious to see how future elections play out once all candidates involved have been on the internet for the entirety of their lives.

My GF's cousin ran for State Representative for Brookfield. His opponent bought FOUR consecutive pages of the newspaper one week and filled all four pages corner to corner with nothing but screen grabs of his twitter feed. The dude was out of the race by 8:10 that morning.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #931 on: February 18, 2019, 08:12:30 AM »
Wel, they have a MORAL OBLIGATION to... whatever the f*** it is that they do.   Honestly, doesn't ANYONE take stock of themselves or their situation anymore?   Doesn't anyone stand in front of the mirror and ask "How did I/we get here, and what did I do to facilitate that?   And what can I do to make that trajectory more positive?"   Doubling down on what we've been doing for 20 years is not the answer, and presumably if these people are smart enough and capable enough of leading us, they should know this.   

It's a compounding process.  The more that people like Cory Booker demand that our public servants be perfect and never drank a beer or never had any sex or never had even one moment of careless abandon, the less aware, sensitive, and conscious people we will have in office.  Anyone with any reason would stay right the fuck out of politics (I even thought of running for local office and my wife said "Dude do you want any part of that nonsense?" and she was spot on correct.  I just don't have the gene to say the nonsense that politicians are expected to say these days).

I thought about running locally, and then I remembered my internet presence from the age of 12 to present day. I'd stand absolutely no chance. I'm very curious to see how future elections play out once all candidates involved have been on the internet for the entirety of their lives.

My GF's cousin ran for State Representative for Brookfield. His opponent bought FOUR consecutive pages of the newspaper one week and filled all four pages corner to corner with nothing but screen grabs of his twitter feed. The dude was out of the race by 8:10 that morning.

Similar thing happened to an old roommate (and college buddy).  Ran for town council, and ONE GUY (someone I also know well) wrote a series of op-ed letters to the local paper, condemning his candidacy, and my buddy lost by a 2-1 margin (and in local politics, that's significant).   I don't even have that internet presence. I've eschewed that.   But I went to a state school, and while I never "boofed" anything (except that one time Spring Weekend) and never raped anyone, under the current standards?  Not a chance.   

And I don't put myself out there as the "answer"; I'm not.   I don't have that hubris.  But I do put myself out there as "average Joe"; family man, tax payer, well-educated, significant experience in a matrix work environment (where you have to influence without authority), so presumably the kind of person that might do well in a political environment. And I view you the exact same way (but with the advantage of being younger).   How many people are like us and say "hell to the no!"?

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #932 on: February 19, 2019, 02:02:24 PM »
And the sad part is that the people they're eliminating are the ones that might actually be worth a fuck. I honestly don't want somebody so squeaky clean they can withstand today's media scrutiny in office. I want somebody with some character.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #933 on: February 21, 2019, 11:42:20 AM »
Feb 21, 2019 08:55:02 AM - I want 5G, and even 6G, technology in the United States as soon as possible. It is far more powerful, faster, and smarter than the current standard. American companies must step up their efforts, or get left behind. There is no reason that we should be lagging behind on something that is so obviously the future. I want the United States to win through competition, not by blocking out currently more advanced technologies. We must always be the leader in everything we do, especially when it comes to the very exciting world of technology! 



I'm curious why this doesn't apply to things like coal mines, modern transportation infrastructure, and walls.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #934 on: February 21, 2019, 12:04:34 PM »
I just read those tweets and am wondering why he is going off on cell phone technology?  Did I miss some news?

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #935 on: February 21, 2019, 12:10:17 PM »
I just read those tweets and am wondering why he is going off on cell phone technology?  Did I miss some news?

Maybe twitter froze on him for an hour.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #936 on: February 21, 2019, 12:10:26 PM »
I just read those tweets and am wondering why he is going off on cell phone technology?  Did I miss some news?
Our spat with Huawei has been in the news a lot, and it's happening largely because they're beating us to the punch with 5g. Unlike 4g and its predecessors, 5g will be a transformational tech rather than just a marketing label. Both sides really want to set the standards, and with China's (Huawei's) increasing market share they're in a good position to do it.

What I don't get is why he didn't got with 9j technology. If you're going to make something up you might as well shoot higher than that.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #937 on: February 21, 2019, 12:22:59 PM »
 :lol true and my work overlords have released their latest 5g tech which is apparently garbage. Competition with China makes sense for the tweet now.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #938 on: February 27, 2019, 09:53:54 AM »
@RealDonaldTrump 7:44 AM - 16 Jul 2013  Just found out that at a charity auction of celebrity portraits in E. Hampton, my portrait by artist William Quigley topped  list at $60K

Michael Cohen this morning under oath: “Mr. Trump directed me to find a straw bidder to purchase a portrait of him that was being auctioned at an Art Hamptons Event. The objective was to ensure that his portrait, which was going to be auctioned last, would go for the highest price of any portrait that afternoon. The portrait was purchased by the fake bidder for $60,000”   



He's so fucking pathetic.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #939 on: February 27, 2019, 10:32:51 AM »
@RealDonaldTrump 7:44 AM - 16 Jul 2013  Just found out that at a charity auction of celebrity portraits in E. Hampton, my portrait by artist William Quigley topped  list at $60K

Michael Cohen this morning under oath: “Mr. Trump directed me to find a straw bidder to purchase a portrait of him that was being auctioned at an Art Hamptons Event. The objective was to ensure that his portrait, which was going to be auctioned last, would go for the highest price of any portrait that afternoon. The portrait was purchased by the fake bidder for $60,000”   



He's so fucking pathetic.

Not to start a debate or even get too involved in defending trump.....I don't think the man is a bastion of moral fortitude.....but we are talking about a convicted liar and a lawyer who's been disbarred.....and a person who spent weeks prepping with Democratic congressmen for whatever this show is considered today. This isn't exactly Mr. Rogers....I take everything this dude says about as seriously as anything AOC says.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #940 on: February 27, 2019, 10:35:19 AM »
Cohen has already provably lied again under oath.  He was clearly and provably eager to work for the White House, yet said under oath that he had no desire to work in the White House and in fact was grateful to NOT be in the White House. Even Jake Tapper on CNN - who has shown outright glee over this entire shit-show - had to point out that it was not accurate (they played a tape, though I was on the phone and couldn't hear it).

Most of this - not all, but most of this - is just self-serving mud slinging.  There's nothing patently illegal about most of what he's saying here.   The part that to me is a crack in the armor and which could be problematic is the provable involvement of Trump in Trump Org. affairs after his inauguration.   

I'm still not convinced that the payment to Cohen is a problem; in fact, I think there's an argument that the payment was necessary to remain compliant with the law. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 10:43:50 AM by Stadler »

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #941 on: February 27, 2019, 10:37:20 AM »
He's got receipts, recordings, and copies of the signed checks. The dude's already been sentenced. Telling the truth lets him keep that sentence, lying under oath at this point would just lengthen his stay in jail. He's got zero incentive to lie about any of this at this point.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #942 on: February 27, 2019, 10:44:26 AM »
He's got receipts, recordings, and copies of the signed checks. The dude's already been sentenced. Telling the truth lets him keep that sentence, lying under oath at this point would just lengthen his stay in jail. He's got zero incentive to lie about any of this at this point.

I don't disagree with you; except he did.  Even his "ally", CNN, said so.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #943 on: February 27, 2019, 10:51:11 AM »
He's got receipts, recordings, and copies of the signed checks. The dude's already been sentenced. Telling the truth lets him keep that sentence, lying under oath at this point would just lengthen his stay in jail. He's got zero incentive to lie about any of this at this point.

I don't disagree with you; except he did.  Even his "ally", CNN, said so.

"He was clearly and provably eager to work for the White House, yet said under oath that he had no desire to work in the White House and in fact was grateful to NOT be in the White House." 

But aren't working for the White House and working IN the White House two different things?   

I mean, I'm eager to work for my company, but would be grateful if I was able to work from home every day and not be in an open office floor plan.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #944 on: February 27, 2019, 10:55:23 AM »
The guys a liar just like Trump, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he is lying again.  Having said that, I'm not defending Trump here, I think this stuff is all likely true although I'm not entirely sure I care since Trump being a douche is already known.