Author Topic: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)  (Read 28777 times)

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Online Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #315 on: November 21, 2017, 08:01:04 AM »
@RealDonaldTrump Nov 19, 2017 08:29:02 PM - Border Patrol Officer killed at Southern Border, another badly hurt. We will seek out and bring to justice those responsible. We will, and must, build the Wall!


Nov 21,2017

AP source: Authorities believe border agent may have fallen

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/21/ap-source-authorities-believe-border-agent-may-have-fallen.html

Quote
DALLAS Ė  A U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation into the death of a border patrol agent in South Texas says the surviving agent who radioed for help doesn't remember what happened.

The official, who was briefed on the investigation but is not authorized to speak publicly and spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Monday that investigators believe agent Rogelio Martinez may have fallen into a 14-foot culvert. Martinez died early Sunday.

The FBI says autopsy results are pending. Martinez's partner remains hospitalized.


When it came to a nazi running down a protestor, Trump said;

"you don't make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don't know the facts.

"And it's a very, very important process to me. And it's a very important statement. So I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts.Ē

Offline vtgrad

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #316 on: November 21, 2017, 09:12:28 AM »
7! 7! 7!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdK6LVDI3kg

Might have to go back and watch Friends now...

Edit: Because that is actually funny is what I mean.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 09:37:02 AM by vtgrad »
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."  Ecclesiastes 12:13

Now with Twitler taking a high end steak of this caliber and insulting the cow that died for it by having it well done just shows zero respect for the product, which falls right in line with the amount of respect he shows for pretty much everything else.- Lonestar

Offline Harmony

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #317 on: November 27, 2017, 06:29:44 PM »
Imagine publicly and repeatedly calling a coworker of yours "Pocahontas" and NOT getting fired on the spot. Can you? I can't.

Online Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #318 on: November 28, 2017, 08:51:10 AM »
Imagine publicly and repeatedly calling a coworker of yours "Pocahontas" and NOT getting fired on the spot. Can you? I can't.

Depends. What is my co-worker's name?   

(I'm kidding; injecting a little - very little - humor.)

On a serious note, though, this sort of begs the question of whether context matters, or whether some things are objectively bad.   I get it, I think, but when something moves from contextual to absolute, I get very skittish.   It smacks of the "zero tolerance policies" that were all the rage a couple years ago.   NO DRUGS AT SCHOOL; and you read about a kid that got a two-day suspension for having her allergy medicine with her.   NO KNIVES OF ANY KIND; and you read about a kid that got a vacation for having a nail-clipper in his backpack.    I'm not at all suggesting Trump is "right" for what he's doing (even if I do think that Elizabeth Warren is a lying, opportunist publicity whore who sees herself as a "Hillary Clinton for the 2020's") but does the context matter? 

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #319 on: November 28, 2017, 08:56:41 AM »
Yes, context matters. And yes, I get that you're trying to look at the big picture, but I think right now you're doing that thing where you make the picture SO big that it becomes irrelevant to what happened. You moved from what actually happened to something about being suspended for allergy medication.

How about we just focus on Trump calling a political rival, not a good friend, Pocahontas?
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Online Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #320 on: November 28, 2017, 08:58:02 AM »
Imagine publicly and repeatedly calling a coworker of yours "Pocahontas" and NOT getting fired on the spot. Can you? I can't.

Depends. What is my co-worker's name?   

(I'm kidding; injecting a little - very little - humor.)

On a serious note, though, this sort of begs the question of whether context matters, or whether some things are objectively bad.   I get it, I think, but when something moves from contextual to absolute, I get very skittish.   It smacks of the "zero tolerance policies" that were all the rage a couple years ago.   NO DRUGS AT SCHOOL; and you read about a kid that got a two-day suspension for having her allergy medicine with her.   NO KNIVES OF ANY KIND; and you read about a kid that got a vacation for having a nail-clipper in his backpack.    I'm not at all suggesting Trump is "right" for what he's doing (even if I do think that Elizabeth Warren is a lying, opportunist publicity whore who sees herself as a "Hillary Clinton for the 2020's") but does the context matter?

I was thinking about this on my way to work today. I think no matter how you slice it, this was offensive. Trump wanted to take a shot at Warren, and tried slipping it in any way he could. That was disrespectful to those that were being honored regardless of context, IMO. He turned a ceremony about them into another weak attempt at discrediting an adversary. I also didn't think calling her Pocahontas was offensive, initially, and instead just thought it was a shitty attempt at being an ass, but I'm starting to lean toward it being offensive. It'd be no different than Trump referring to a black woman as "Shaniqua" or calling a random Latino guy "Jose" simply because of their ethnicity.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #321 on: November 28, 2017, 09:20:48 AM »
Yes, context matters. And yes, I get that you're trying to look at the big picture, but I think right now you're doing that thing where you make the picture SO big that it becomes irrelevant to what happened. You moved from what actually happened to something about being suspended for allergy medication.

How about we just focus on Trump calling a political rival, not a good friend, Pocahontas?

Yes,  thank you

Online El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #322 on: November 28, 2017, 09:26:57 AM »
A: It wasn't offensive in and of itself. It was just indicative of him being a fucking child.

B: What was offensive, and which few noticed, was that he framed the whole thing in front of a portrait of Andrew "Fuck The Indians" Jackson.
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Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #323 on: November 28, 2017, 09:37:48 AM »

B: What was offensive, and which few noticed, was that he framed the whole thing in front of a portrait of Andrew "Fuck The Indians" Jackson.

I did notice that. That can't be just Trump, it's like his entire WH staff can't get out of their own way.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #324 on: November 28, 2017, 11:46:44 AM »
Yes, context matters. And yes, I get that you're trying to look at the big picture, but I think right now you're doing that thing where you make the picture SO big that it becomes irrelevant to what happened. You moved from what actually happened to something about being suspended for allergy medication.

How about we just focus on Trump calling a political rival, not a good friend, Pocahontas?

You mean before or after she (falsely) used native American heritage for her own political gain?   How can you be offended when someone else doesn't take you seriously, if you don't either?   

Look, I get it; two wrongs don't make a right.  And I do think there are 1,000 ways trump can make his point without treading in these waters.   Totally get that.   But let's not blow this out of proportion the other way.   If she doesn't take it seriously, she can't really bitch when others don't either. 

I am dreading 2020, when I know we'll be subjected to Hillary, Jr. in the presidential election.  Go Bernie!

Online Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #325 on: November 28, 2017, 11:52:12 AM »
Imagine publicly and repeatedly calling a coworker of yours "Pocahontas" and NOT getting fired on the spot. Can you? I can't.

Depends. What is my co-worker's name?   

(I'm kidding; injecting a little - very little - humor.)

On a serious note, though, this sort of begs the question of whether context matters, or whether some things are objectively bad.   I get it, I think, but when something moves from contextual to absolute, I get very skittish.   It smacks of the "zero tolerance policies" that were all the rage a couple years ago.   NO DRUGS AT SCHOOL; and you read about a kid that got a two-day suspension for having her allergy medicine with her.   NO KNIVES OF ANY KIND; and you read about a kid that got a vacation for having a nail-clipper in his backpack.    I'm not at all suggesting Trump is "right" for what he's doing (even if I do think that Elizabeth Warren is a lying, opportunist publicity whore who sees herself as a "Hillary Clinton for the 2020's") but does the context matter?

I was thinking about this on my way to work today. I think no matter how you slice it, this was offensive. Trump wanted to take a shot at Warren, and tried slipping it in any way he could. That was disrespectful to those that were being honored regardless of context, IMO. He turned a ceremony about them into another weak attempt at discrediting an adversary. I also didn't think calling her Pocahontas was offensive, initially, and instead just thought it was a shitty attempt at being an ass, but I'm starting to lean toward it being offensive. It'd be no different than Trump referring to a black woman as "Shaniqua" or calling a random Latino guy "Jose" simply because of their ethnicity.

What about calling Rachel Dolezal "Shaniqua"?  Or Jeb Bush "Jose"?  Is it the same?   

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #326 on: November 28, 2017, 11:56:08 AM »
Who, here, is blowing this out of proportion? Is any criticism blowing things out of proportion?

I honestly donít get your argument outside but of needing to provide a counterpoint to any thing critical of Trump.
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Online Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #327 on: November 28, 2017, 11:59:57 AM »
Imagine publicly and repeatedly calling a coworker of yours "Pocahontas" and NOT getting fired on the spot. Can you? I can't.

Depends. What is my co-worker's name?   

(I'm kidding; injecting a little - very little - humor.)

On a serious note, though, this sort of begs the question of whether context matters, or whether some things are objectively bad.   I get it, I think, but when something moves from contextual to absolute, I get very skittish.   It smacks of the "zero tolerance policies" that were all the rage a couple years ago.   NO DRUGS AT SCHOOL; and you read about a kid that got a two-day suspension for having her allergy medicine with her.   NO KNIVES OF ANY KIND; and you read about a kid that got a vacation for having a nail-clipper in his backpack.    I'm not at all suggesting Trump is "right" for what he's doing (even if I do think that Elizabeth Warren is a lying, opportunist publicity whore who sees herself as a "Hillary Clinton for the 2020's") but does the context matter?

I was thinking about this on my way to work today. I think no matter how you slice it, this was offensive. Trump wanted to take a shot at Warren, and tried slipping it in any way he could. That was disrespectful to those that were being honored regardless of context, IMO. He turned a ceremony about them into another weak attempt at discrediting an adversary. I also didn't think calling her Pocahontas was offensive, initially, and instead just thought it was a shitty attempt at being an ass, but I'm starting to lean toward it being offensive. It'd be no different than Trump referring to a black woman as "Shaniqua" or calling a random Latino guy "Jose" simply because of their ethnicity.

What about calling Rachel Dolezal "Shaniqua"?  Or Jeb Bush "Jose"?  Is it the same?

I wouldn't think so. Though, admittedly I don't know who Rachel is. That to me just seems like a poorly thought out joke/insult that fails to deliver regardless what you were trying to accomplish.

Online El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #328 on: November 28, 2017, 12:21:35 PM »
Yes, context matters. And yes, I get that you're trying to look at the big picture, but I think right now you're doing that thing where you make the picture SO big that it becomes irrelevant to what happened. You moved from what actually happened to something about being suspended for allergy medication.

How about we just focus on Trump calling a political rival, not a good friend, Pocahontas?

You mean before or after she (falsely) used native American heritage for her own political gain?   How can you be offended when someone else doesn't take you seriously, if you don't either?
Hell, I'll defend Grabby's right to be insulting to her, tough I'd prefer he act like an adult for once, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with Warren. It has to do with his insulting behavior towards the Indians he was supposedly honoring. In fact, isn't the level of offensiveness directly related her own contemptibility?
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #329 on: November 28, 2017, 12:28:49 PM »
Who, here, is blowing this out of proportion? Is any criticism blowing things out of proportion?

I honestly donít get your argument outside but of needing to provide a counterpoint to any thing critical of Trump.

I'm pushing back on the notion that any reference to "Pocahontas" is de facto wrong.  And not really "pushing back" as much as "asking the question".   Maybe Trump IS being offensive; I don't know (I really don't know; I think I'm missing the "offense gene", because outside of the obvious stuff most of this stuff is lost on me) but the way some are talking, "Trump called her Pocahontas!" is all anyone needs to know, and I don't see it that way. 

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #330 on: November 28, 2017, 12:31:21 PM »
Imagine publicly and repeatedly calling a coworker of yours "Pocahontas" and NOT getting fired on the spot. Can you? I can't.

Depends. What is my co-worker's name?   

(I'm kidding; injecting a little - very little - humor.)

On a serious note, though, this sort of begs the question of whether context matters, or whether some things are objectively bad.   I get it, I think, but when something moves from contextual to absolute, I get very skittish.   It smacks of the "zero tolerance policies" that were all the rage a couple years ago.   NO DRUGS AT SCHOOL; and you read about a kid that got a two-day suspension for having her allergy medicine with her.   NO KNIVES OF ANY KIND; and you read about a kid that got a vacation for having a nail-clipper in his backpack.    I'm not at all suggesting Trump is "right" for what he's doing (even if I do think that Elizabeth Warren is a lying, opportunist publicity whore who sees herself as a "Hillary Clinton for the 2020's") but does the context matter?

I was thinking about this on my way to work today. I think no matter how you slice it, this was offensive. Trump wanted to take a shot at Warren, and tried slipping it in any way he could. That was disrespectful to those that were being honored regardless of context, IMO. He turned a ceremony about them into another weak attempt at discrediting an adversary. I also didn't think calling her Pocahontas was offensive, initially, and instead just thought it was a shitty attempt at being an ass, but I'm starting to lean toward it being offensive. It'd be no different than Trump referring to a black woman as "Shaniqua" or calling a random Latino guy "Jose" simply because of their ethnicity.

What about calling Rachel Dolezal "Shaniqua"?  Or Jeb Bush "Jose"?  Is it the same?

I wouldn't think so. Though, admittedly I don't know who Rachel is. That to me just seems like a poorly thought out joke/insult that fails to deliver regardless what you were trying to accomplish.


Rachel Dolezal is worth a quick google from you, my friend.  In short, she's a white woman that posed as a black woman for years, some might say to take advantage of some of the perks of being a minority (I believe some have alleged it's how she got her job).   The Jeb reference was to how some claimed he was taking advantage of the fact that he married a Latina woman and tried to parlay that into votes from the Latino community. 

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #331 on: November 28, 2017, 12:33:46 PM »
Who, here, is blowing this out of proportion? Is any criticism blowing things out of proportion?

I honestly donít get your argument outside but of needing to provide a counterpoint to any thing critical of Trump.

I'm pushing back on the notion that any reference to "Pocahontas" is de facto wrong.  And not really "pushing back" as much as "asking the question".   Maybe Trump IS being offensive; I don't know (I really don't know; I think I'm missing the "offense gene", because outside of the obvious stuff most of this stuff is lost on me) but the way some are talking, "Trump called her Pocahontas!" is all anyone needs to know, and I don't see it that way.

But that's not what being is being discussed. This specific situation is. So let's just focus on this specific situation. I wasn't offended, but why would I be? Doesn't mean it wasn't offensive.
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Online Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #332 on: November 28, 2017, 12:40:26 PM »
Who, here, is blowing this out of proportion? Is any criticism blowing things out of proportion?

I honestly donít get your argument outside but of needing to provide a counterpoint to any thing critical of Trump.

I'm pushing back on the notion that any reference to "Pocahontas" is de facto wrong.  And not really "pushing back" as much as "asking the question".   Maybe Trump IS being offensive; I don't know (I really don't know; I think I'm missing the "offense gene", because outside of the obvious stuff most of this stuff is lost on me) but the way some are talking, "Trump called her Pocahontas!" is all anyone needs to know, and I don't see it that way.

But that's not what being is being discussed. This specific situation is. So let's just focus on this specific situation. I wasn't offended, but why would I be? Doesn't mean it wasn't offensive.

Adami, what do you want from me?  We WERE discussing this situation.  And I asked a very relevant question to this situation:  Does context matter?   I don't see any dialogue about Warren here, and that's very relevant to whether his comment was offensive, in my opinion.   Warren wrongly hid behind being Native American for her own political gain.   That's offensive in that it belittles the struggles and obstacles that real Native Americans have endured through history.   I don't see how the use of a name of a prominent Indian is in an of itself offensive.  Trump isn't mocking Pocahontas, he's mocking Warren.  If I'm Native American, I'm far more offended by Warren than Trump.   

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #333 on: November 28, 2017, 12:44:06 PM »
He's mocking something Native American, AT a Native American event. That's what's offensive.

If he called that one Rachel chick Shaniqua at a black history month rally, that would be important.

Yes, context matters. We established that. But in creating a bunch of other hypothetical cases just isn't relevant at all and only diverts from the actual situation. Then we're just arguing abstract principles.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #334 on: November 28, 2017, 01:01:16 PM »
Who, here, is blowing this out of proportion? Is any criticism blowing things out of proportion?

I honestly donít get your argument outside but of needing to provide a counterpoint to any thing critical of Trump.

I'm pushing back on the notion that any reference to "Pocahontas" is de facto wrong.  And not really "pushing back" as much as "asking the question".   Maybe Trump IS being offensive; I don't know (I really don't know; I think I'm missing the "offense gene", because outside of the obvious stuff most of this stuff is lost on me) but the way some are talking, "Trump called her Pocahontas!" is all anyone needs to know, and I don't see it that way.

But that's not what being is being discussed. This specific situation is. So let's just focus on this specific situation. I wasn't offended, but why would I be? Doesn't mean it wasn't offensive.

Adami, what do you want from me?  We WERE discussing this situation.  And I asked a very relevant question to this situation:  Does context matter?   I don't see any dialogue about Warren here, and that's very relevant to whether his comment was offensive, in my opinion.   Warren wrongly hid behind being Native American for her own political gain.   That's offensive in that it belittles the struggles and obstacles that real Native Americans have endured through history.   I don't see how the use of a name of a prominent Indian is in an of itself offensive.  Trump isn't mocking Pocahontas, he's mocking Warren.  If I'm Native American, I'm far more offended by Warren than Trump.
Warren wasn't there, didn't try to be there, had nothing whatsoever to do with the event. I don't see how her behavior is a factor in this discussion at all. She's only part of the context because you're making her so.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #335 on: November 28, 2017, 02:05:58 PM »
It's all relevant.  I'm not saying she was there.  I'm just explaining that calling her "Pocahontas" isn't, in and of itself, offensive.   Where, when, why are all important.  It's a summation of all the relevant facts.  It's EXTREMELY relevant that she's NOT a Native American.  That's kind of what, in my mind, makes it NOT offensive.

To Adami, no, I don't think he's mocking something that's Native American.  He's mocking Elizabeth Warren, who's NOT Native American, but tried to say she was.  If anything it's implicitly pro-Native American.  My friend lost three fingers in a fireworks accident.  We call him "Fingers".   We're not mocking the disabled, we're mocking my friend, who will gladly tell you himself that he's a fucking idiot (or at least was at that point in time).   

None of this is to say it's classy, or adult, or effective.   

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #336 on: November 28, 2017, 03:10:56 PM »
McCain's response sums up my feelings.

Our nation owes a debt of gratitude to the Navajo Code Talkers, whose bravery, skill & tenacity helped secure our decisive victory over tyranny & oppression during WWII. Politicizing these genuine American heroes is an insult to their sacrifice.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #337 on: November 28, 2017, 03:59:42 PM »
McCain's response sums up my feelings.

Our nation owes a debt of gratitude to the Navajo Code Talkers, whose bravery, skill & tenacity helped secure our decisive victory over tyranny & oppression during WWII. Politicizing these genuine American heroes is an insult to their sacrifice.

Yeah, pretty much this.  Beyond that, is it offensive?  Maybe.  Not on the same level as using a racial slur.  But then again, it doesn't have to necessarily reach that level to be offensive, does it?  I get that context is important.  But there isn't really any context here that actually occurred that makes the comments okay.  Yeah, I get that he was taking a dig at Warren, not Indians, and that the dig at Warren may have been deserved.  But that really adds little to the context of what he said and when/where he said it.  It was a stupid, random thing to say, and it's offensive simply because it had nothing to do with this event, which was meant to honor these men, and it instead distracted and politicized it.  THAT is what makes it offensive.

He's mocking something Native American, AT a Native American event. That's what's offensive.

Wait, what?  What Indian did he mock?
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Offline Harmony

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #338 on: November 28, 2017, 04:27:16 PM »
It's EXTREMELY relevant that she's NOT a Native American.

I'm sorry, I'm not up on this "scandal" but when were her DNA records made public?  How do you know she has zero Native American blood?

Let's say for arguments sake, she doesn't have one drop of Native American blood in her.  Did she "lie" or was she told family lore? Many people do not know their actual ancestry and only go by stories they've been told. Someone close to me was told he was a descendant of the Cherokee nation.  He was told this since he was a small child.  He recently got his Ancestry DNA checked and guess what?  No indication of any native blood.  Yet a whole swath of Irish in him he had ZERO idea about.  He's in his 60s.  How could he not know?  Right??

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #339 on: November 28, 2017, 04:51:49 PM »
He's mocking something Native American, AT a Native American event. That's what's offensive.

Wait, what?  What Indian did he mock?
Honest question here. If I were to start mocking somebody I truly hated by referring to "Jesus Christ over there" would that bother you? Obviously the intent is to ridicule my enemy, but by using somebody inherently good and revered to do so don't I demean them both?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #340 on: November 28, 2017, 04:56:48 PM »
He's mocking something Native American, AT a Native American event. That's what's offensive.

Wait, what?  What Indian did he mock?
Honest question here. If I were to start mocking somebody I truly hated by referring to "Jesus Christ over there" would that bother you? Obviously the intent is to ridicule my enemy, but by using somebody inherently good and revered to do so don't I demean them both?

I'm trying to come up with a context where I would consider it demeaning, but am struggling.  Personally, I don't see it as demeaning toward the latter.  But if that's basically what Adami is saying and you feel that is potentially legit, that's fine.  I just didn't get it, so that's why I was asking.  I'm not going to draw a line in the sand on that.  It's not as black and white as, say, shopping cart morality.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #341 on: November 28, 2017, 05:08:08 PM »
Yea, sorry, busy day so I donít have a ton of time to post, but El Barto was close enough to what I was getting at.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #342 on: November 28, 2017, 05:09:38 PM »
As far as I know, I'm a white woman.  I can't possibly fully understand how Trump's comments impact Native Americans.  But I can read what they have to say about it.  And I can learn from them, as the issue is one they know better than this white woman does.

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) ó Families of Navajo war veterans who were honored Monday at the White House say they were dumbfounded that President Donald Trump used the event to take a political jab at a Massachusetts senator, demeaning their work with an unbreakable code that helped the U.S. win World War II.

Trump turned to a nickname he often deployed for Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren during the 2016 presidential campaign: Pocahontas. He then told the three Navajo Code Talkers on stage that he had affection for them that he doesn't have for Warren.

"It was uncalled for," said Marty Thompson, whose great uncle was a Navajo Code Talker. "He can say what he wants when he's out doing his presidential business among his people, but when it comes to honoring veterans or any kind of people, he needs to grow up and quit saying things like that."

Pocahontas is a well-known historical figure who bridged her own Pamunkey Tribe in present-day Virginia with the British in the 1600s. But the National Congress of American Indians says Trump wrongly has flipped the name into a derogatory term, and the comment drew swift criticism from American Indians and politicians.

White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders, asked about criticism of Trump's remarks, said a racial slur "was certainly not the president's intent."

Trump made the comment as he stood near a portrait of President Andrew Jackson, which he hung in the Oval Office in January. Trump admires Jackson's populism. But Jackson is an unpopular figure in Indian Country because his policies led to the forced removal of American Indians out of their southern homelands.

The Navajo Nation suggested Trump's remark Monday was an example of "cultural insensitivity" and resolved to stay out of the "ongoing feud between the senator and President Trump."

"All tribal nations still battle insensitive references to our people. The prejudice that Native American people face is an unfortunate historical legacy," Navajo Nation President Russell Begaye said in a statement.

Online El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #343 on: November 28, 2017, 05:25:47 PM »
He's mocking something Native American, AT a Native American event. That's what's offensive.

Wait, what?  What Indian did he mock?
Honest question here. If I were to start mocking somebody I truly hated by referring to "Jesus Christ over there" would that bother you? Obviously the intent is to ridicule my enemy, but by using somebody inherently good and revered to do so don't I demean them both?

I'm trying to come up with a context where I would consider it demeaning, but am struggling.  Personally, I don't see it as demeaning toward the latter.  But if that's basically what Adami is saying and you feel that is potentially legit, that's fine.  I just didn't get it, so that's why I was asking.  I'm not going to draw a line in the sand on that.  It's not as black and white as, say, shopping cart morality.
"Potentially legit" sounds just about right. Honestly, I don't really see much there, either. I'm far more concerned with the fact that the president is such an emotional basket case, as this thing further demonstrated.  I'm just pushing back against "there's nothing offensive about it!" and "what about Elizabeth Warren?"

I do still think there's a direct correlation between offense and the awfulness of the subject. If he'd cited Pocahontas while referring to "my darling wife" we're not having this conversation.

And there's still that problem with Andrew Fucking Jackson. There's no way that's unintentional. Even from this inept White House. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #344 on: November 28, 2017, 05:26:22 PM »
Interesting, Harmony.  The earlier comments seem to be more along the lines of what I was getting at in my post, whereas the comments at the end in the last two paragraphs seem to be more along the lines of what Barto and Adami were referencing.  I still think any offense along those lines is probably a bit misplaced, but that's their prerogative.  And maybe the following observations aren't worth a whole heck of a lot.  But that said, for what little it is worth, here are a couple of observations:  (1) The people mentioned who seem to be the most "offended" (for lack of a better term) are essentially political figures, rather than just common lay people of that particular ethnicity; and (2) I've noticed that leaders from a handful of the bigger, eastern-based tribes seem to MUCH more easily offended than most of us out west.  For instance, those are basically the same folks that initially pushed for y'all to refer to all of us as "Native Americans," before realizing that that term was offensive, and moving on to another equally ridiculous term, and then rinse/repeat, whereas most of us not only don't mind being referred to as "Indians," but actually embrace and prefer that term.  Just an example.  But, again, those are just some passing observations and probably don't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #345 on: November 28, 2017, 05:28:12 PM »
I'm far more concerned with the fact that the president is such an emotional basket case, as this thing further demonstrated.  I'm just pushing back against "there's nothing offensive about it!" and "what about Elizabeth Warren?"

Yeah, I think I'm basically with you on that.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #346 on: November 29, 2017, 08:57:04 AM »
I'm with el Barto on the grander implications of this. 

But I have to note, I'm tired and frustrated that in many of these cases, "groups" feel the need to make statements that inflame and pile on more than they seem to comfort and heal.    The group is not the arbiter of this, especially if they have motives for the comment to be offensive (for whatever reason). 

I don't think the comment was smart, but I also don't think the comment was offensive.  I just don't.  This isn't the same as saying "That's gay!" and implying that the very state of being gay is a bad thing.   This comment really has nothing at all to do with Indians/Native Americans/Pocahontas, but everything about the veracity, integrity and motivations of an up-and-coming political rival.   If what Trump said is "offensive", and context isn't the driving factor, then we're basically saying that any use of the name "Pocahontas" is offensive.

Offline portnoy311

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #347 on: November 29, 2017, 09:59:23 AM »
Does his retweeting today of (fake) anti Muslim videos from a foreign hate group offend you?

Online Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #348 on: November 29, 2017, 10:39:40 AM »
Does his retweeting today of (fake) anti Muslim videos from a foreign hate group offend you?

"Offend me"?  No.  Make me shake my head?  Of course.   But you know me; he could be retweeting football scores and it would make my head spin.    "Twitter" is the public equivalent of texting a woman who isn't your wife after a couple of beers.  There's no good that can possibly come of it, and it's best to just let it alone.   

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #349 on: November 29, 2017, 10:44:31 AM »
edit: nevermind, Bosk actually took the time to explain it and my post was needlessly accusatory
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:07:39 AM by XeRocks81 »