Author Topic: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)  (Read 27662 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #210 on: July 10, 2017, 10:13:39 AM »
As an unrelated example, I work in a managerial role, and part of my job involves catching and correcting other peopleís mistakes.  Now, sometimes I will take the time to bring the mistake to the employeeís attention, but not always.  For example, if an employee has been with us for two years and Iíve never seen them make the mistake before, Iím much more likely to let it go and move on, as I can safely assume that they do know the correct procedure and simply slipped up.  On the other hand, if someone makes that same mistake frequently, Iím much more inclined to bring it up with them.

That is not bias.  It is pattern recognition.  The mistake Iím correcting might be minor enough that I donít need to pull the employee aside and talk to him about it, but the fact that he keeps making similar mistakes means it is something I need to address and pay attention to. 

Same goes for Trump.

Thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated.

To your example, which is a good one, the bias comes in when the second or third "mistakes" are deemed mistakes, even in part, because of the previous mistakes.   I'm all for pattern recognition (more than you know) but here, in large part, the subsequent mistakes aren't mistakes at all EXCEPT for the bias.   Honestly, even with 1000 tweets behind him, I'm not sure I agree that a "Diet Coke" is a sign of anything.  (Well, except bias). 

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When I see a world leader who seems intent on destroying the credibility of news organizations which are critical of him while simultaneously elevating the ones which support him, that alarms me.  That kind of behavior shouldnít be dismissed just because itís taking place on Twitter.

And for the record, it actually isnít just taking place on Twitter.  Look at Sean Spicerís press briefings.  When he gets a hard hitting question from a critical news outlet, heís likely to stumble over his non-answer and try to move on as quickly as possible.  When he turns to Skype for a favorable question from an organization youíve never heard of before, he thanks them for the great question and answers it in great detail.  As I recall, there was even a press briefing that several major liberal news outlets were blocked from attending at all.

Undermining trust in the media seems to be a key strategy of this White House.

And hereís the thing: the presidentís attitude toward the media is a substantive issue.

Why?  Because I kind of value freedom of the press, and I worry about the direction our country might take under the guidance of a president whose idea of fair and unbiased reporting is Fox News. 

I value a free press as well, again, more than you know, but that's why I wrote what I wrote before: TRUMP IS NOT A SINGULARITY.  This has been going on for decades.  Sean Hannity didn't just get a show last November.  He's been on since 2009. 

I was at Emory University back in 2000-2002 getting my MBA, and (along with several classmates) I was lucky enough to have lunch with a Senior Producer of CNN (located in Atlanta).  One of the conversations started jokingly with one student (not me) asking about CNN standing for "Communist News Network", and she freely copped to the idea that ratings were now a part of having a full network dedicated to news.  NBC could fund their news desk with Seinfeld and Wheel of Fortune reruns.   CNN doesn't have that luxury.  So what takes the place of the "entertainment" is the news version of "entertainment".  How many people - who are watching a station to hear ideas that jibe with their world view - understand that they are being sold?    Sean Hannity is NOT delivering HARD NEWS and it just so happens that YOU (who agree with him) are therefore right in your world view.   You are being sold a bill of goods (and lest this be a Conservative, Fox News attack, you can put Rachel Maddow here as well).   

I'm old enough to know that Walter Cronkite was the Voice of America.   It is since been proven apochryphal, but LBJ was thought to have said "If I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost Middle America".    When he retired, and ended his broadcast time, and "came out" as a pretty hard core Liberal (though he was very much for a smaller, limited government, which is a tenet of classic conservatism) it SHOCKED people.   He was literally the most trusted man in America for decades and the vast majority of people had no idea where he stood on the political spectrum.  Do you have any doubt where Anderson Cooper, Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow or Meghan Kelly sit?   Of COURSE not.  And that is a travesty.  He's doing it all wrong (I mean 100% wrong, and he's using it for his own personal gain) but Trump is not wrong in premise for calling these assholes out for fake news.   

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #211 on: July 10, 2017, 10:26:13 AM »
Great points here Stadler, and yes, I do see how "Trump" is the culmination of the last 25-ish years of US politics.  The difference I see between him and past POTUS' is that HE is the one that is (on purpose; ignorance;  indifference??) forcing the attention on meaningless/petty nonsense (which, according your statement, implies that Trump is a "lesser intellect").

One, I was kidding about that.  Two, I'm not sticking up for Trump as any grand genius, but the reverse DOESN'T work.  He may or may not be focusing on the trivial, but it doesn't reflect on his intellect.  He may well be a magician in the sense of a Penn Gillette, who relies on the human nature of his audience to be successful.   Again, I'm not here to argue Trump's intellect - I have no fucking idea, though I do think his daughter is way WAY smarter than she gets credit for.)

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  Granted, Twitter didn't exist pre-Obama, but we certainly didn't see Clinton bragging about how which interns have a gag reflex and which don't (ironic you would bring up the Birther issue).  The end result is that Trump's actions/behaviour (largely on Twitter, but not always limited to his tweets) show his constituents - and the rest of the world - that politics/policy/governing/etc... is not what he is primarily focused on.  And, as the leader of the US, it is ergo not what the US is focused on.

I'm not familiar with any Trump reference to gag-reflexes, especially while President, but what's the difference?  Zeppelin is widely regarded as the gold standard for rock star decadence.  Is banging a groupie with a red snapper any less appalling because there isn't a Snap chat of it?  If anything, it's WORSE. 

But for the record, I'm not arguing your last point.  No doubt, if Trump is tweeting about Mika Brzezinski's facial surgery, he's not solving more pressing issues.  You will get no push back on that from me.  But then again, where do you draw the line?  Is Trump's tweeting better or worse than Obama's "impromptu" (NOTHING POTUS does is "impromptu") basketball shootarounds?   Do you think Bill was simultaneously negotiating NAFTA while nutting on Monica's dress?   If it's an issue now, then it was an issue then.  Anything else is the bias I have been discussing for two pages now. 

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I've read a few articles recently (non-US, thus non-"partisan")

NOT accurate.  There is no correlation; some of the most partisan statements I have ever heard were in publications I read while traveling Europe.   

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talking about how other countries are taking leadership positions where the US clearly doesn't want to lead anymore, as well as governments going around Trump in order to productively work with the US.  Whether his supporters simply can't see it because they can't step outside of their biases/echo chamber, or are burying their heads in the sand, the US's position in the global arena is weakening on a regular basis because of Trump.

Maybe, maybe not.  I'm open to this discussion.  At least it's about substance, and not whether Lady Duda blew her cue or whether there was some sinister world plot to make Trump look stupid one handshake at a time.

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@ Jaffa... great post - I agree with all of it.  I'd been looking for the way to articulate the difference between what I thought Stadler was saying about bias, and how I felt it, and particularly towards Trump.  You nailed it.  In a way, Trump has been the creator of my bias towards him - because of his consistent patterns of behaviour, and because of the position he is in.

And that's why I'm on you (I hope you know, in a friendly way; none of this is personal, at least not with me).  Blaming Trump for your bias is just passing the buck.  It's STILL a bias.   In fact, your statement proves my counter to Jaffa (who did give us a great post, no doubt).  It's only pattern recognition - and not bias - when you'd get the same answer regardless of who the actor is, and you've just conceded that you DON'T.   

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #212 on: July 10, 2017, 10:27:11 AM »
Jaffa for President!

Wasn't he born in Nairobi, though?

I'M KIDDING! I'M KIDDING!

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #213 on: July 10, 2017, 11:21:14 AM »
To your example, which is a good one, the bias comes in when the second or third "mistakes" are deemed mistakes, even in part, because of the previous mistakes.   I'm all for pattern recognition (more than you know) but here, in large part, the subsequent mistakes aren't mistakes at all EXCEPT for the bias.   

This is an interesting point.  My previous example is a bit flawed, because when it comes to my employees' mistakes at work, there are clear protocols and mistakes are easily defined.  Whereas in the Trump case, the protocol is a bit muddier, and therefore the 'mistakes' are more subjective.  However, rather than focusing on the specifics of Trump, I'm more interested in examining the nature of bias in general.  So, I propose another example, one that you might find more interesting.

Let's say that two of my friends each drink a glass of wine.  For one of them, this is an extreme rarity, and they are only partaking now because a friend bought them a bottle of wine as a birthday gift.  The other friend is a recovering alcoholic who has not had a drink in years.

Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with drinking a glass of wine.  However, for my recovering alcoholic friend, I do consider it a mistake, based exclusively on the previous events of his life.

Is that bias?
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #214 on: July 10, 2017, 12:48:39 PM »
And that's why I'm on you (I hope you know, in a friendly way; none of this is personal, at least not with me). 

It's all good.  These discussions (though frustrating at times - as I'm sure on from your perspective as well) wouldn't be nearly as engaging or thought-provoking if everyone just saw things my way.   :D ;)
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #215 on: July 10, 2017, 03:33:09 PM »
To your example, which is a good one, the bias comes in when the second or third "mistakes" are deemed mistakes, even in part, because of the previous mistakes.   I'm all for pattern recognition (more than you know) but here, in large part, the subsequent mistakes aren't mistakes at all EXCEPT for the bias.   

This is an interesting point.  My previous example is a bit flawed, because when it comes to my employees' mistakes at work, there are clear protocols and mistakes are easily defined.  Whereas in the Trump case, the protocol is a bit muddier, and therefore the 'mistakes' are more subjective.  However, rather than focusing on the specifics of Trump, I'm more interested in examining the nature of bias in general.  So, I propose another example, one that you might find more interesting.

Let's say that two of my friends each drink a glass of wine.  For one of them, this is an extreme rarity, and they are only partaking now because a friend bought them a bottle of wine as a birthday gift.  The other friend is a recovering alcoholic who has not had a drink in years.

Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with drinking a glass of wine.  However, for my recovering alcoholic friend, I do consider it a mistake, based exclusively on the previous events of his life.

Is that bias?

Well, it's not black and white, because to an extent it depends on the standard you're using to determine "mistake".   It also matters that it's not an objective thing.  It's your opinion.   

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #216 on: July 10, 2017, 11:58:14 PM »
That's fair.  For what it's worth, it wasn't my intent to imply that I was in some way objectively correct about my 'friend,' or about Trump for that matter.  My only point was that the two friends have very different histories, and it therefore makes sense for me to react differently to them.  From my perspective, that doesn't really qualify as bias.  I was just hoping to clarify my understanding of your perspective. 

Earlier, you explained that in order to be unbiased, you have to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.  My counterpoint is that sometimes it is irrational to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #217 on: July 11, 2017, 04:57:48 AM »
Earlier, you explained that in order to be unbiased, you have to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.  My counterpoint is that sometimes it is irrational to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.

I couldn't agree more... it's what I was referencing earlier.  Trump the reality star/hotel developer doesn't really mean much with these tweets; Trump as POTUS... much different story.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #218 on: July 11, 2017, 09:52:22 AM »
Earlier, you explained that in order to be unbiased, you have to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.  My counterpoint is that sometimes it is irrational to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.

Earlier, you explained that in order to be unbiased, you have to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.  My counterpoint is that sometimes it is irrational to give the same answer regardless of who the actor is.

I couldn't agree more... it's what I was referencing earlier.  Trump the reality star/hotel developer doesn't really mean much with these tweets; Trump as POTUS... much different story.

Well, let's unpack this a little bit.   First, "irrational" is a strong word, but beyond that...  I think there are distinctions here that are important and dangerous.   I think above all - and I am doing this on the fly, so reserve the right to amend this if it doesn't come out right - is the idea that "bias" is somehow inherently bad.   I don't think it is.    I know for me, I knowingly and willingly cop to certain biases that - hopefully - are considered benign and frivolous.  I am aware of them and if there is a situation where it may not be benign, I try to accommodate that.   I hold doors. I'm a door holder.   If we go into a bar together, I guarantee you I'm holding the door for you.   I will stand there for minutes, if the people behind me are female, elderly, or perhaps handicapped in some way.  I am far more likely to give a smile and a nod, then walk through the door if the next group has a male figure.  That's bias (by the way, all that is true).   If I held the door for 15 people (male, female, old, young) then gave the smile or nod and walked through because the next person was a black male, that's not the same thing.   

I think what we have to be very careful is understand our place in history.   150 years ago, many people felt that blacks were dumber than whites and acted accordingly.  They were biased, but felt they could justify it.   When Jingle talks about his predilections against Trump, my Spider-sense tingles, because ALL prejudice in history has been explained by the bigot in some form or fashion.   As with the black example, it might have had some justification (in the sense that black people in the U.S. circa 1860 were less likely to be educated and therefore more likely to APPEAR less smart, even if their capabilities were equal to those of whites, which we now know they are) but it doesn't make it right.

What I mean by "treat the same people the same way" is really to be overly sensitive - internally - to why we might NOT do that, and weigh our bias against outside standards as opposed to inside standards.   We ALL think we're right 100% of the time; we have to stop ACTING like it's the 100%.   Because we are, after all, humans and so we are right maybe 50% of the time.   This is hard stuff.  Thirsty work, as Bruce Dickinson says in "Holy Smoke".   I know for me, it sometimes takes conscious effort.   

Offline cramx3

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #219 on: July 11, 2017, 03:20:55 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-twitter-users-lawsuit.html

This is interesting since Trump uses twitter as his preferred way of communicating with the public as POTUS, can he legally bar people from seeing those tweets? 

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #220 on: July 11, 2017, 11:11:17 PM »
Well, let's unpack this a little bit.   First, "irrational" is a strong word, but beyond that...  I think there are distinctions here that are important and dangerous.   I think above all - and I am doing this on the fly, so reserve the right to amend this if it doesn't come out right - is the idea that "bias" is somehow inherently bad.   I don't think it is.   

Ah.  Fair enough!  Iím glad you clarified that.

Youíre right, of course.  The word Ďbiasí tends to have negative connotations, especially in political discussions dealing with biased politicians and biased media, but that negativity is not necessarily inherent to its definition.  If you did not intend to include those negative connotations, that resolves much of my confusion about your perspective.

Now that Iím a little clearer on the semantics, Iíll try to refocus on the subject at hand.

So.  Twitter.

In principle, I have no problem with the president being active on Twitter.  Social media is an incredibly powerful platform, and it makes sense for a modern president to utilize that platform to better communicate with his constituents.  I certainly canít fault Trump for taking advantage of it.

However, that being said, I do think that his Tweet should be taken seriously.  When a president makes a public speech or holds a press conference, their words are analyzed and scrutinized.  There is no reason why we shouldnít hold their Tweets to that same standard.  As I said before, if the president posts a controversial Tweet, its substance shouldnít be dismissed as insignificant just because it was said on Twitter. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #221 on: July 12, 2017, 07:48:48 AM »
@RealDonaldTrump
Jul 12, 2017 05:19:32 AM - My son Donald did a good job last night. He was open, transparent and innocent. This is the greatest Witch Hunt in political history. Sad!


I wonder if he would have been as open and transparent had he not known the NYT had copies of his emails.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #222 on: July 12, 2017, 09:40:48 AM »
@RealDonaldTrump
Jul 12, 2017 05:19:32 AM - My son Donald did a good job last night. He was open, transparent and innocent. This is the greatest Witch Hunt in political history. Sad!


I wonder if he would have been as open and transparent had he not known the NYT had copies of his emails.

Or when he was saying there was nothing going on with Russia?  "Allow me to be transparent... when I've been backed into a corner and someone's about to reveal a truth that I haven't disclosed for almost a year"
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Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #223 on: July 17, 2017, 08:51:29 AM »
Jul 17, 2017 09:07:55 AM - Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don jr attended in order to get info on an opponent. That's politics!

Why deny it for weeks and then continue to lie about it as information slowly trickled out?

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #224 on: July 17, 2017, 10:44:22 AM »
Jul 17, 2017 09:07:55 AM - Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don jr attended in order to get info on an opponent. That's politics!

Why deny it for weeks and then continue to lie about it as information slowly trickled out?

I'm not saying I agree with this or that I like it (I do not; I abhor it, actually) but it's the way that these crises are handled nowadays.  When you add that to the idea that the news is fake*, it makes a perfect sort of twisted sense.   

*  And the media is complicit in this; by blurring the lines between journalism and editorialism, they have asked for this argument.  Someone this weekend, on another (related) site tried to pitch me "evidence" from the LA Times; the article was headlined like news, but was actually an op-ed piece that was so poorly written (from a journalism standpoint; it was an excellent column, even though I disagreed with it's premise) as to be ridiculous.   Again, more evidence of my belief that Trump is not a singularity but rather an inevitable conclusion to the way the partisan politics of our country have been moving for the better part of two decades.   

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #225 on: July 17, 2017, 06:56:59 PM »
*  And the media is complicit in this; by blurring the lines between journalism and editorialism, they have asked for this argument.  Someone this weekend, on another (related) site tried to pitch me "evidence" from the LA Times; the article was headlined like news, but was actually an op-ed piece that was so poorly written (from a journalism standpoint; it was an excellent column, even though I disagreed with it's premise) as to be ridiculous.   Again, more evidence of my belief that Trump is not a singularity but rather an inevitable conclusion to the way the partisan politics of our country have been moving for the better part of two decades.
See my post in the chat thread. It's fascinating the forms journalistic bias can take.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #226 on: July 18, 2017, 08:25:22 AM »
Jul 18, 2017 08:26:47 AM - The Senate must go to a 51 vote majority instead of current 60 votes. Even parts of full Repeal need 60. 8 Dems control Senate. Crazy!

Stupid checks and balances!!

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #227 on: July 18, 2017, 01:34:38 PM »
Feb 9, 2016 05:15:34 PM We will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare - and nobody can do that like me. We will save $'s and have much better healthcare!


Derp

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #228 on: July 18, 2017, 01:38:51 PM »
Feb 9, 2016 05:15:34 PM We will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare - and nobody can do that like me. We will save $'s and have much better healthcare!


Derp

Yea, but all politicians break promises. So he's allowed to without criticism.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #229 on: July 18, 2017, 02:49:37 PM »
If he'd just give us what he promised us in the first place none of this would matter. That plan he had up his sleeve where everybody was covered, premiums went down and taxes were cut sounded awesome. I don't see why he won't just sign off on that.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #230 on: July 19, 2017, 09:43:08 AM »
I think what bugs me most is his equivocation on the matter.   He's got to do more than sit there and quip before meeting that "it's gonna be great!".  Get a committee.  Get Jared to lead a team.  Put something on paper, and put it in front of McConnell and Schumer and say "GET IT DONE".   

I read something interesting yesterday, about "why are certain Republicans essentially sand bagging him?" and most dime-store pundits are opting for the standard (but wrong) "they're bailing on a sinking ship".  That doesn't make sense, because if they pass the bill, the ship is no longer sinking (it's putting the cart before the horse).  But one take I thought was pretty insightful:   they're not putting in the effort because TRUMP isn't putting in the effort.   For better or worse, Obama stumped HARD across the U.S. for his namesake bill (yes I know it wasn't namesake at the time, started as an epithet then was coopted, got it) and he gave massive air cover to the Dems that pushed the bill through.    Trump is doing NONE of that.   He's playing benevolent dictator on this issue and it's pissing people off.   In politics, you don't ever want to put someone in the line of fire without giving them the choice first (or at least the illusion of choice).   Trump isn't doing that.   

In my opinion, neither McConnell nor Ryan are going to take a bullet for Trump on healthcare.  And if they won't take the bullet, neither are any of the other Senators (especially those who are facing an election in 16 months).

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #231 on: July 19, 2017, 09:59:33 AM »
I read something interesting yesterday, about "why are certain Republicans essentially sand bagging him?" and most dime-store pundits are opting for the standard (but wrong) "they're bailing on a sinking ship".  That doesn't make sense, because if they pass the bill, the ship is no longer sinking (it's putting the cart before the horse).  But one take I thought was pretty insightful:   they're not putting in the effort because TRUMP isn't putting in the effort.   For better or worse, Obama stumped HARD across the U.S. for his namesake bill (yes I know it wasn't namesake at the time, started as an epithet then was coopted, got it) and he gave massive air cover to the Dems that pushed the bill through.    Trump is doing NONE of that.   He's playing benevolent dictator on this issue and it's pissing people off.   In politics, you don't ever want to put someone in the line of fire without giving them the choice first (or at least the illusion of choice).   Trump isn't doing that.   
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Trump has given me no reason to believe he know's anything about the ACA or what was in the bill to replace it. All we've heard is "Obamacare is in a death spiral!" and "The replacement bill is going to be beautiful". I haven't heard the guy speak to the new bill in any capacity outside of the fact it will kill the failing Obamacare. It's clear that all he is doing is giving McConnell and Ryan free reign to do whatever they want, so long as he can sign something that allows him to hold his tiny fist up high and proclaim the ACA officially dead (while taking all the credit). The guy is clueless about this topic, and him tweeting something like "As I have always said, let ObamaCare fail" is a really shitty thing to do. He's throwing in the towel and thinking he's wiped his hands clean of this mess. He hasn't lead at all. At best, he's shouted a couple of his expectations. For someone who has claimed to be a master negotiator, and has said publicly "We will immediately repeal and replace ObamaCare - and nobody can do that like me", it's coming off as if he hasn't the slightest clue what he's  doing.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #232 on: July 19, 2017, 10:01:43 AM »
You'll note - Jingle! this is for you! - that you're not getting a ton of push back from me on that sentiment.   Less than impressive (though I don't go along with the standard tropes with this).   

Online El Barto

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #233 on: July 19, 2017, 10:14:28 AM »
Part of it is that he has no clue about specifics. Part of it is that he doesn't want to as they don't matter. I honestly believe that Trump couldn't care less about success or fail, right or wrong, good or bad, by any standards, including his own. He only cares about being able to pronounce himself the winner. In this case, he wants any bill. No matter what congress gives him, he'll pronounce it GREAT and pat himself on the back. Maybe it's a good bill and maybe it's shit. Doesn't matter. If it can be spun to a WIN for Trump he'll love it.

And people rag on Obama for caring too much about his legacy.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #234 on: July 19, 2017, 10:21:04 AM »
Yeah, I was just about to post an an op-ed on Bloomberg today (from a writer with admittedly clear anti-Trump bias, he was unsuccessfully sued by Trump for libel a few years ago) basically saying the same thing, that Trump cares about looking good rather than doing good.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #235 on: July 19, 2017, 10:59:57 AM »
Part of it is that he has no clue about specifics. Part of it is that he doesn't want to as they don't matter. I honestly believe that Trump couldn't care less about success or fail, right or wrong, good or bad, by any standards, including his own. He only cares about being able to pronounce himself the winner. In this case, he wants any bill. No matter what congress gives him, he'll pronounce it GREAT and pat himself on the back. Maybe it's a good bill and maybe it's shit. Doesn't matter. If it can be spun to a WIN for Trump he'll love it.

And people rag on Obama for caring too much about his legacy.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.  I was going to post exactly this.

insert "wall" where you have "bill" in this sentence, and that works too.

He only cares about being able to pronounce himself the winner. In this case, he wants any WALL. No matter what congress gives him, he'll pronounce it GREAT and pat himself on the back. Maybe it's a good WALL and maybe it's shit. Doesn't matter. If it can be spun to a WIN for Trump he'll love it.

I didn't know I could handle another 10 inches and it was rough but in the end I'm glad I did it.
warflwwcesfw.
That's meme-speak for "We are really f*****g lazy when we can't eve say full words".

Offline ariich

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #236 on: July 20, 2017, 03:24:44 AM »
That has surely been obvious for months now? Certainly in Europe most people seem to see that.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #237 on: July 20, 2017, 06:53:52 AM »
I don't think there's any argument on that.   I certainly don't disagree with that assessment. 

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #238 on: July 20, 2017, 06:55:37 AM »
I don't think there's any argument on that.   I certainly don't disagree with that assessment.

Who are you, and what have you done with Stadler?
I didn't know I could handle another 10 inches and it was rough but in the end I'm glad I did it.
warflwwcesfw.
That's meme-speak for "We are really f*****g lazy when we can't eve say full words".

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #239 on: July 20, 2017, 07:38:59 AM »
This is definitely an area where I have massive respect for Trudeau (and to some extent Obama). He really makes an effort to understand what he's working on/dealing with. Doesn't mean he doesn't get things wrong, of course, plus there will always be a hefty element of ideology for any politician, but he seems to make more effort to try to balance ideology with evidence. Trump is the worst world leader I can think of in that regard, but most senior politicians in the UK (across parties) aren't much better.

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #240 on: July 20, 2017, 07:54:22 AM »
I don't think there's any argument on that.   I certainly don't disagree with that assessment.

Who are you, and what have you done with Stadler?

#FakeBills #AlternateStadler #MAGA!!

Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #241 on: July 20, 2017, 10:12:44 AM »
I don't think there's any argument on that.   I certainly don't disagree with that assessment.

Who are you, and what have you done with Stadler?

#FakeBills #AlternateStadler #MAGA!!

 :tup

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #242 on: July 20, 2017, 10:18:11 PM »
 :lol
Quote from: nightmare_cinema
So should lonestar and I have babies or something now, is that how this works?
Dang, you're easily the coolest fogey I know of

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #243 on: July 24, 2017, 07:21:57 AM »
Jul 23, 2017 03:14:32 PM - It's very sad that Republicans, even some that were carried over the line on my back, do very little to protect their President.

It's very sad that the president thinks he's above the constitution that he's sworn to uphold and protect.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #244 on: July 25, 2017, 06:45:26 AM »


ok then!