MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[axeman90210]

One of the Haken guys told me they were practicing for over six months to get ready for this, and they weren't pulling off all the solos Eric was. 

I thought they said two months for them learning just the rhythm parts and six months for Eric learning leads and all? Could be mistaken though.

Also it looks like they played all of repentance, ending and all. I'd love to see a quality video of how they pulled that off, the only one I saw actually was distorted to the point of being worthless.

If you mean this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUk0tLdmt2Y   I think that's the way it actually sounded.. Right at 6:54 when the voices' section starts it does sound very distorted and you can see Ross covering his ears right away..

But yeah, I also hope to see something with better quality, of the whole thing....

One thing I noticed in all the videos was that it looks like it was reasonably windy, which can screw with the sound even for those who are there in person. Wonder if Nick or Bill or anyone else who was there could shed some light on the overall sound quality.

There was definitely a bit of wind that night, though the sound was still pretty decent for us (~ 3 rows back just slightly stage left of dead center).

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

That being said, Portnoy probably had this band assembled months ago; which kinda makes it kinda inexcusable for the 'they were not prepared' thing.

Haken and the other guitarist were very well prepared. The only person I saw that seemed very unprepared was Daniel, and I doubt he was in on it and practicing months ago, he was likely brought in last minute.

Yeah, instrumentally they were tight as hell. I said that because of Ted and Daniel.

[Madman Shepherd]

I just watched Repentance. Between MP's vocals, the never-ending outro, the piped-in apologies, that song doesn't work at all IMHO.

I love Repentance probably moreso than most people.  I think there was a survey here that indicated it was a lot of peoples least favorite of the suite. 

The thing that really didn't work for me was the vocal harmonies in the outro.  I don't mind the never ending outro but it also requires a much more theatrical presentation.  Basically they had just an average bar band lighting rig that was sort of hooked up to the beat of the song. 
Imagine how much cooler that would have been with a more Pink Floyd presentation.  A red light saturating the stage alternating with a deep blue or something. 

Obviously there wasn't a budget for that and maybe for safety reasons they had to have a lot of the ship lights on but it just didn't seem as epic as I expected. 

[DragonAttack]

Other than TRoAE, I don't care for any of the 12 step songs.

That said.....I do miss Mike's antics behind the kit.  A lot.  I would do a 3-4 hour drive to see this performed, but Atlanta is just too far away.  For axeman and all the others, this certainly had to be more than special. 

I enjoyed the rehearsal footage.  Loved the brief moments of seeing the Caribbean in the background.  Quite the unique setting.   

[KevShmev]

Rehearsal Footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoIckva180&feature=youtu.be

lol Daniel Gildenlöw looks as if he doesn't want to be there :')

Dunno if I'd say that - to me he looks more like he just doesn't really know what's going on.

Combine that with him having to read the lyrics from a sheet during the performance and you have to ask, why did he even agree to be a part of this?  We can quibble about picking this guy or that guy, but everyone in it seemed to be into it and well prepared, except Gildenlow, who looked like he half-assed it. 

[Mosh]

Favor for a friend? That's the only thing I can really think of.

[Mosh]

Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff. I get why they did it that way logistically, but it still would've been cool.

[pogoowner]

Combine that with him having to read the lyrics from a sheet during the performance and you have to ask, why did he even agree to be a part of this?  We can quibble about picking this guy or that guy, but everyone in it seemed to be into it and well prepared, except Gildenlow, who looked like he half-assed it. 

I actually really liked what he did with it stylistically, which is kind of funny considering he seemed to barely know the song.

[MirrorMask]

Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff. I get why they did it that way logistically, but it still would've been cool.

Before the final section of the solo of TDS begins, there's a little moment of pause, almost a break; on a similar "almost pause" in Metropolis they black out the stage and pause a little for dramatic effect.

In this thread someone told that the songs are in different tunings, so that's why they can't flow together, but a question from a non musician... would it be hard to pause in that brief moment before the end, switch guitars and then continue with the last part of the solo and go into Root, like it's obviously meant to be once you play them back to back without Root's intro?

[Setlist Scotty]

Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.

I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.

Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.

Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?

[BlobVanDam]

Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.

I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.

Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.

Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?

Everything's 7 string standard except TROAE. I don't recall the footage I've seen of the cruise showing the transitions between those songs, but I assume they had to swap guitars both before and after TROAE.

[Elite]

Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.

I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.

Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.

Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?

Everything's 7 string standard except TROAE. I don't recall the footage I've seen of the cruise showing the transitions between those songs, but I assume they had to swap guitars both before and after TROAE.

TROAE is played on a 6-string tuned to Eb instead of E. All the riffs in TROAE are easily playable on a 7-string, so I doubt they swapped guitars. TROAE's main riff is also in The Shattered Fortress, where it's played on a seven-stringed guitar. It's really no big deal.

[BlobVanDam]

Kinda disappointed in the transition from TDS to TROAE. I always envisioned them going from the last chord of TDS straight into that riff.

I'm definitely in the same boat - I was really looking forward to seeing how they went from one to another, and was bummed to see the way they did it.

Tho I never confirmed it with MP, I always figured they wrote TRoAE in a different tuning to fit the octave theme in 8v, since they chose to open with that song for that album, but when it finally came to performing the whole 12SS, that they'd adjust it so that it would flow from TDS to TRoAE seamlessly.

Since I'm clueless about tunings, I am curious - is TRoAE the only song with a different tuning, or do Repentance and/or TSF continue with the same tuning as TRoAE?

Everything's 7 string standard except TROAE. I don't recall the footage I've seen of the cruise showing the transitions between those songs, but I assume they had to swap guitars both before and after TROAE.

TROAE is played on a 6-string tuned to Eb instead of E. All the riffs in TROAE are easily playable on a 7-string, so I doubt they swapped guitars. TROAE's main riff is also in The Shattered Fortress, where it's played on a seven-stringed guitar. It's really no big deal.

Looking back at the footage, it appears they're playing TROAE in half step tuning as on the album, but on 7 string guitars. I can see one of them tuning up beforehand, but I'm not sure if he's retuning the whole guitar on the fly or whether he was just double checking it had kept tune.
TROAE is technically playable on a 7 string, but it's definitely not ideal. The main riff is doable because it's a single note, and I think it's a little slower in TSF than in TROAE making it easier, but some of those other riffs wouldn't be so nice to play without the open strings in the right spot. I'd rather just work in the guitar swap than have to deal with that hassle, and the transitions in and out of TROAE naturally allow for that anyway.

[twosuitsluke]

Sorry, I've missed most of this thread. Was there a youtube link that has the full performance (and if so is the quality any good?) or are they all just the individual songs?

Apologies for laziness 

[ariich]

Yeah playing TROAE in the right key but in standard 7-string tuning would be really awkward.

The alternative of course is that they could have played it up a semi-tone. But I guess that might have made it harder for Ted to sing?

[?]

Yeah playing TROAE in the right key but in standard 7-string tuning would be really awkward.

The alternative of course is that they could have played it up a semi-tone. But I guess that might have made it harder for Ted to sing?

Yeah, and then TROAE and the reprise in TSF would've been in different keys.

[Metro]

Going by the videos, they're all using the same guitars through the whole suite, and they're all playing Root in the same position you'd play it in Eb tuning.
Charlie and Rich from Haken both use Axe-FXs and I'm pretty sure you can digitally detune with it. It wouldn't surprise me if Eric did the same thing, but I'm not sure what his rig is. You can see him tuning during the intro to Root so maybe he just physically detuned it.
Connor(The bass player) is using an actual amp, so he had to detune his bass physically. Probably not the whole bass, you could get away with just tuning the E, A and D strings down and leaving the B, G, and C strings alone.

Boom, myth busted.

[?]

Connor(The bass player) is using an actual amp, so he had to detune his bass physically. Probably not the whole bass, you could get away with just tuning the E, A and D strings down and leaving the B, G, and C strings alone.

The "help to do for me what I can't do myself" section goes down to a low A# on bass, so the B string must've been tuned down as well.

(obligatory music geekery )

[Metro]

Connor(The bass player) is using an actual amp, so he had to detune his bass physically. Probably not the whole bass, you could get away with just tuning the E, A and D strings down and leaving the B, G, and C strings alone.

The "help to do for me what I can't do myself" section goes down to a low A# on bass, so the B string must've been tuned down as well.

(obligatory music geekery )

You are correct

[bosk1]

But here's the thing:  Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to.  TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff.  You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo.  You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section.  Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former).  Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key.  When you have three guitarists, you have options.  And they could do the same thing at the end of TROAE into Repentence if they wanted that to be continuous as well.  You could just have one guitar playing the outro riff while the others switch guitars or tune back up (I think switching guitars is faster). 

[Mosh]

But here's the thing:  Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to.  TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff.  You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo.  You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section.  Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former).  Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key.  When you have three guitarists, you have options.  And they could do the same thing at the end of TROAE into Repentence if they wanted that to be continuous as well.  You could just have one guitar playing the outro riff while the others switch guitars or tune back up (I think switching guitars is faster).

Very good point.

TROAE on a seven string is really no big deal. It is one of the simpler DT songs and these guys are capable enough musicians that they could probably transpose it on the spot, let alone figure it out months in advance.

[rumborak]

Charlie and Rich from Haken both use Axe-FXs and I'm pretty sure you can digitally detune with it.

I have an Axe-Fx, and I used the detune option when playing SoC back in the day, because it's in Eb.
But, it's a last resort kind of thing. Maybe later Axe-Fx models got better at it, but mine definitely colors the sound and thins it out.

[bosk1]

Going back to my suggestion then, even though I know a cruise is different in that, because of space limitations, musicians often scale WAY back on what gear they bring, but just having an extra guitar waiting in the wings that is in a different tuning doesn't seem like much.  If someone had thought about it, this would have been an easy solution to provide continuity (assuming there aren't other logistical reasons why they needed a break).  Maybe we'll actually see something more like that when they do the subsequent performances.

[Elite]

TROAE on a seven string is really no big deal. It is one of the simpler DT songs and these guys are capable enough musicians that they could probably transpose it on the spot, let alone figure it out months in advance.

Exactly. I tried to say that as well, but my comment got drowned out. TROAE is easy as it is, so on a seven-string that really only makes it a little more difficult, which shouldn't make it a problem at all. In fact, I just tried it for the hell of it and if I can do it with no problems whatsoever, these guys can do that too.

[Mosh]

Yea I've tried it too. Hardest thing is the main riff, which they have to learn on 7 string anyway for TSF. Even the solo isn't that difficult.

[Elite]

The solo is very doable for Dream Theater standards indeed. It's a fun song to play - actually one of the first DT songs I ever learned I think.

[ariich]

But here's the thing:  Given that they have 3 guitarists, they easily could have a smoother transition there if they wanted to.  TDS ends with crazy soloing and then the "dugga-dugga-dun-da-dun-da-dun-WAH" riff.  You don't need 3 guitars to do that, even if you want to layer a second part under the solo.  You can just have one or two guitars drop out at that part and while you have that solo section going on, and that player (or those two players) then either swaps guitars or detunes during that section.  Then after the ending riff of TDS, the guitar or two guitars that dropped out can either come in with the same riff in the new key so that it basically modulates the song to the new key, or just go right to the main riff (I would prefer the former).  Then the other guitar (or two guitars) that finished TDS can drop out and tune to the new key.  When you have three guitarists, you have options.  And they could do the same thing at the end of TROAE into Repentence if they wanted that to be continuous as well.  You could just have one guitar playing the outro riff while the others switch guitars or tune back up (I think switching guitars is faster). 

This is all perfectly valid but you might also consider that the band might benefit from a short break every now and then rather than a full hour of solid playing.

[bosk1]

Yes, but:
1.  Mike is used to playing LONG pieces straight through with minimal stoppage (e.g., The Whirlwind, Six Degrees)
2.  Before Repentance is the more logical place.

[ariich]

Yes, but:
1. Mike wasn't the only performer
2. There's already a logical gap between TDS and TROAE that, if I remember rightly, DT did as well when they played those songs together.

[MirrorMask]

To the best of my knowledge they never played Root right after This Dying Soul.

[ariich]

To the best of my knowledge they never played Root right after This Dying Soul.

Hmm, I thought I remembered it but maybe what I'm recalling was people's mixes of the songs.

[MirrorMask]

Anyway, my suggestion for the continuity as I said earlier, which I don't know if it's musically viable, is to stop at the 10:45 mark of the song, as from the Budokan version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wKx_SBjHDY

Take advantage of that small moment of pause, like they do during Metropolis, to stop, black out the stage, change guitars, take a breath, and then launching into the final section of the solo and straight into Root.

[Mosh]

That would be awesome. It just seems like that final unison in TDS was meant to eventually act as an interlude to the next part. For them to not take advantage seems to defeat the purpose.

Also worth noting that MP said that Repentance was designed to give the band and audience a break after really heavy/technical music. So they do get a bit of a break.

[Mosh]

Any thoughts on the possibilities of a new Portnoy solo project emerging out of this? I could easily see him starting something with Diego and Eric Gillette.

[Skeever]

Any thoughts on the possibilities of a new Portnoy solo project emerging out of this? I could easily see him starting something with Diego and Eric Gillette.

Not getting my hopes up for that. The guys from Haken and Gilette are all gainfully employed.
Honestly, I've given up hope for a Portnoy prog band that isn't just some retread of the Neal Morse brand. Portnoy, Sherinian, MacAlpine, Sheenan was the lineup that could have done that (only needed a good vocalist), and apparently no one was interested after that initial tour.