MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[nattmorker]

So, I'm only half-informed about this whole thing, but was that the only event at which the 12SS will be played? I somehow thought there would be more, but then I can't imagine MP lugging around Daniel Gildenlow and Haken just for the purpose of this thing.

It's happening at at least one more event, one of those prog-power type things (maybe even prog-power, I dunno). I believe Haken will be playing there anyway, and assuming PoS isn't there, the dude from Haken will probably just sing more of it, or he'll ask someone else there to read lyrics....I mean sing with them.

MP's The Shattered Fortress will be playing in Mexico aswell, in September, along with Next to None & Haken, so I guess is going to be Haken + MP.

[ToT-147]

This guy uploaded almost the whole suite!: https://www.youtube.com/user/mojorisin224/videos?shelf_id=0&view=0&sort=dd


THE GLASS PRISON (entire song): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agJr9Ht3Uow
REPENTANCE (unlinked here yet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUk0tLdmt2Y
THE SHATTERED FORTRESS (first part): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=149mf2U5G_Y

[BlobVanDam]

I'm impressed by how well they pulled off these songs. Very faithful to the original parts and solos too. The keyboardist even got a lot of parts right that I didn't expect, not because of difficulty, but because of the attention to detail to care enough, such as the little sitar-y bit in the intro of TSF, and some of the background keyboard parts in the middle of TGP. Very well done. The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.

[nobloodyname]

Also, I get the impression that the guys in Haken are big fans of DT's music[...]

If memory serves correctly, I was sat two people away from Charlie at the Score show in 2006. I remember him having hair then, though

[Mladen]

The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.

And this is probably why the people that defend JLB all these years feel vindicated. Some fans would argue there are many singers that could do their job better than James, yet when someone else tries it, rarely do they nail it.

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I think it´s great that Mike has found a way of playing more DT songs than just Repentance (which was played by Flying Colours), although for a short period of time. The AA Saga deserved a full rendition for a while, and I think it was MP´s intention to play it in full in DT´s next tour after BCSL, right?

[MirrorMask]

Indeed, if I recall correctly there was the tentative idea of having a concept album and playing the concept in the first set and the AA in the second.

[ReaperKK]

I'm impressed by how well they pulled off these songs. Very faithful to the original parts and solos too. The keyboardist even got a lot of parts right that I didn't expect, not because of difficulty, but because of the attention to detail to care enough, such as the little sitar-y bit in the intro of TSF, and some of the background keyboard parts in the middle of TGP. Very well done. The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.

I agree with you. The funny thing is I always wondered on how DT would sound with another singer and well not great

[bosk1]

Great that Mike was able to put this together.  Instrumentally, I think it sounds pretty cool.  I'm not a fan of the vocals, which is what has kept me from liking Haken's music in the past.  Same thing here.  I think they definitely needed someone with more grit.  But great that Mike was able to pull together enough reputable musicians to pull this off.

[jonnybaxy]

I was at Cruise to the edge, was absolutely amazing, Ross does a great LaBrie (perhaps not in some recordings).

Blown away by Eric Gillette, couldn't believe how amazing he was, it seemed Charlie and Richard were mainly just doubling his parts.

[mikeyd23]

Great that Mike was able to put this together.  Instrumentally, I think it sounds pretty cool.  I'm not a fan of the vocals, which is what has kept me from liking Haken's music in the past.  Same thing here.  I think they definitely needed someone with more grit.  But great that Mike was able to pull together enough reputable musicians to pull this off.

This basically sums up my thoughts after clicking through the videos in the thread.

[Samsara]

I know Haken is big in the prog world. I haven't given them a real good listen, honestly. That said, am I the only one surprised that Mike didn't get a more widely-known group of musicians to back him. Yeah, Haken is popular with prog guys, and it was a prog cruise. But one thing that occurred to me a few months ago, was this would have been an excellent chance to finally hear John Arch sing Dream Theater songs, like Portnoy wanted pre-LaBrie. I was a little surprised Arch, or even a guy like Nathan James (whose band opened for the Winery Dogs in the UK) wasn't recruited.

Glad MP was happy, and fans loved it. I guess I just expected some bigger names...

[bosk1]

Hmm.  This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.

[Adami]

Hmm.  This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.

If so, he did a good job. In all of this talk of the vocals, I think most of us overlooked just how well the musicians came together to play what is a terribly difficult bit of music. One of these songs is hard, all five of them is a monstrous task.

[jonnybaxy]

Hmm.  This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.

Well if you watch Haken's video "Final farewell to the empire jam" where they play 'The Mirror', I think that shows that Jennings is capable of LaBrie's parts.

My feeling is he looked who was booked on the cruise and picked a selection from them.

[cramx3]

Hmm.  This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Mike was focused primarily on getting the instrumentalists together, and the vocals ended up being an afterthought.

Well if he had the rest of Haken together, would it be odd to be like "well now the vocals.... time passes... oh hey Ross..."  Seems odd. MP is close with the Haken guys.  Haken and MP were at ProgPower last year, MP's Shattered Fortress was announced at that same ProgPower to be performing there next year, with Haken also being a headliner.  It seems very likely, to me, that MP and Haken were going to be working together on this for awhile. 

[axeman90210]

I think a couple things went into it. One being it's convenient/cost effective to have participants be members in other bands playing at these festivals. Secondly, you basically had MP + Eric and then the Haken guys who each already have some chemistry playing together and could each rehearse separately if they wanted to ahead of time. They only really had one day of rehearsals before the cruise left, probably would have been even tougher to pull it off as well as they did (at least instrumentally) if you had a bunch of different guys from different bands who were playing together for the first time in those rehearsals. This all aside from the fact that everyone selected is a great musician in their own right who MP clearly has respect for and is friends with.

I may have misunderstood Ted when he was talking to Nick afterwards, but I believe he said that Ross divided up the vocal parts that Daniel and he would take, so I wouldn't be surprised if you saw something similar with guest vocalists from bands playing at the other festivals. Daniel and Ted (but Daniel more egregiously) reading lyrics off a laptop onstage was probably the only off-putting part of the whole performance to me. Good thing Daniel's too pretty and Ted's too nice for me to stay mad

[Nachtmerrie]

First post here

After seeing the videos I'm extremely happy with my tickets for Night of the Prog in Germany.
Really impressed by the musical performance and couldn't be happier as Haken are one of my favorites and I'm deepy impressed each time I see Gilette play.

The vocals are the part that could be improved but it's a great recognition for LaBrie to see a few great vocalists struggle with these songs.
Would love to see Russell Allen joining the crew as  I think he would be an amazing and some parts of me still wants to add a female singer and see how that works out.

[Madman Shepherd]

The vocals are the main area where it's the most jarring that I'm not hearing DT.

And this is probably why the people that defend JLB all these years feel vindicated. Some fans would argue there are many singers that could do their job better than James, yet when someone else tries it, rarely do they nail it.

So true.  I think I may be more forgiving of Ross than most people.  His vocals have kind of grown on me.  Bosk said his vocals kept him from enjoying Haken whereas with me, it's actually the music that kept me from enjoying Haken. 

That said, Ross is still no JLB.  He does a fine job and has somewhat of a distinct voice that I think is cool but I'll take any era of James any day over any of these guys. 

[Adami]

I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?

[MinistroRaven]

I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?

This is coming very soon, though not soundboard but what I've heard so far is very promising  (a fiend of mine recorded most of the shows (audio/video) he is editing some of them as we speak

[Madman Shepherd]

I know MP isn't allowed to make any money off of recordings of those songs, but could he potentially put a soundboard audio quality or better version on youtube for free?

Well, you're not allowed to release anything without licensing it.  Something like that would probably require DT to sign off on it and they would require money so Mike would have to pay up either way. 

[Adami]

But people release covers on YouTube all the time. They're not paying fees.

[cramx3]

But people release covers on YouTube all the time. They're not paying fees.

You are allowed to make money on youtube performing cover songs.  Not sure why though.  Maybe because it's ad money and not money purchased on the product (the song)?  I would imagine DT would need to sign off on MP releasing this, but I also don't see why they wouldn't.  They would make money off of work they aren't performing and let their old friend do the thing he wants to do.  I see it as a win win if that's the case.

[Madman Shepherd]

But people release covers on YouTube all the time. They're not paying fees.

It's become very muddied with youtube but if you are using someone else's intellectual property like music, you need to pay.  Do all cover bands pay when they play shows?  Of course not.  Is it illegal?  Yes, if they (or the venue) doesn't pay.  When was the last time Bret Michaels sued someone for using Every Rose Has A Thorn on youtube that has 25 views?  Never. 

Kind of a bigger deal when your former drummer with a million followers does it. 

[Adami]

So those split screen covers of DT songs all paid DT money and required DT to sign off?

[jakepriest]

You are allowed to make money on youtube performing cover songs.  Not sure why though. 

You are not. If you upload a cover, the bot usually recognizes it (unless you completely programmed and mixed the cover yourself) and adds ads that pay the label directly. You don't make a dime.

[Skeever]

One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer. Even Gildenlow seemed clueless how to pull off some of those parts in TDS, and say what you want about Gildenlow, but there isn't a more technically proficient singer in metal IMO.

[cramx3]

You are allowed to make money on youtube performing cover songs.  Not sure why though. 

You are not. If you upload a cover, the bot usually recognizes it (unless you completely programmed and mixed the cover yourself) and adds ads that pay the label directly. You don't make a dime.

Not true.  It does that automatically, but youtube gives you the option to claim it as your own cover of the song after the copyright has been claimed.  I've gotten the notice plenty of time for uploading live songs for which I do not monetize since it's totally not my ownership.  Youtube allows you to make money on your own cover of a song. But not all songs.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3301938?hl=en

[ToT-147]

am I the only one surprised that Mike didn't get a more widely-known group of musicians to back him.

Nope, definitely you're not.. Almost everyone here is criticizing that..

One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer.

I didn't need these vids to know that, but I suppose they show it perfectly..

[LudwigVan]

am I the only one surprised that Mike didn't get a more widely-known group of musicians to back him.

Nope, definitely you're not.. Almost everyone here is criticizing that..

One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer.

I didn't need these vids to know that, but I suppose they show it perfectly..

The irony to all this being that this project will show just how irreplaceable Labrie is to DT, relative to their ex drummer.

[pogoowner]

The irony to all this being that this project will show just how irreplaceable Labrie is to DT, relative to their ex drummer.

I have no ill will toward Mike, but that is funny.

[Madman Shepherd]

So those split screen covers of DT songs all paid DT money and required DT to sign off?

Technically speaking, I think DT could have that video removed just like AC/DC could force some bar in Kentucky to cancel their AC/DC tribute band if they aren't paying the proper royalties or are using unauthorized intellectual property.  Has DT or AC/DC ever done that?  No.

Now if this AC/DC tribute band actually started to draw a few thousand people a night instead of 40, then AC/DC might take action. 

Now as far as whether they have to sign off or not, I'm not an expert but there are a few things to consider.  MP and DT signed an agreement after he left of which the terms are not well known other than MP can't use the Dream Theater name or logo to promote himself or sell DT material.  That is why he can't sell his drumcam DVDs for DT stuff.  Other stuff to consider would be the record label and licensing group. 

I know Slash had a live DVD and he was only allowed to include GNR covers in the European version.  The American version went without them.  This was of course before they made up. 

[rumborak]

One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer. Even Gildenlow seemed clueless how to pull off some of those parts in TDS, and say what you want about Gildenlow, but there isn't a more technically proficient singer in metal IMO.

Yeaaah, but at the same time, I very much suspect that most of those singers had little preparation for the songs. Despite what a lot of people think, singing is a *craft*, and knowing how to navigate a tune takes preparation and experience. JLB knows what he's doing, but at the same time, Daniel Gildenlow would sound a lot better if this was a PoS song that he would prepare meticulously for.
I am absolutely sure that Daniel will not have staked his professional career on this leisure cruise performance.

[pogoowner]

One thing those videos left me with was a deep appreciation for how hard it is to be Dream Theater's singer. Even Gildenlow seemed clueless how to pull off some of those parts in TDS, and say what you want about Gildenlow, but there isn't a more technically proficient singer in metal IMO.

Yeaaah, but at the same time, I very much suspect that most of those singers had little preparation for the songs. Despite what a lot of people think, singing is a *craft*, and knowing how to navigate a tune takes preparation and experience. JLB knows what he's doing, but at the same time, Daniel Gildenlow would sound a lot better if this was a PoS song that he would prepare meticulously for.
I am absolutely sure that Daniel will not have staked his professional career on this leisure cruise performance.

Yeah, I think anyone familiar with Daniel Gildenlow or Ted Leonard's other work knows they're fully capable of handling this material if they're prepared for it. Considering how much they were both staring at the lyrics, I don't think either of them were. And Ted's voice was apparently shot already due to illness.