Parenting/marital advice

[Cool Chris]

I have thoughts on this but am too tired tonight to write them out. Will check in tomorrow or this weekend.

The fact that someone can share such a personal story like that on this forum and receive a high level of support and understanding makes me happy to be a member here.

[gmillerdrake]

The fact that someone can share such a personal story like that on this forum and receive a high level of support and understanding makes me happy to be a member here.

I had been contemplating for a week or so whether or not to post……but I’ve seen this forum give support time and time again to a lot of folks so I opened up. And, it didn’t fail in this instance either. I’ve had a couple PMs as well that have been truly helpful….eye opening and appreciated.

[KevShmev]

Damn. I just read your post, Gary, and do not know what to say.  I cannot imagine what you are going through. You know where I am if you ever need to text or chat or hang out or anything.  I will say a few prayers for you and your family.

[Grappler]

Just letting you know that I'm here in solidarity with you.  My daughter is 6 and is having HUGE emotional swings, from cry-fests to jealousy of other kids, to absolutely raging tantrums.  We just contacted a child therapy place to get an appointment so she can have an outlet for some of these emotions.  We don't know how to deal with it anymore at home.  It's to the point where we do have to go old-school parent and shout as loud as we can during the tantrums to scare her into stopping the behavior.  Nothing else works.

Do you have anything that you share with him?  My daughter loves father/daughter time - we go for bike rides alone, do puzzles, play board games, etc.  If you have a shared interest (even if it's video games or movie nights), maybe that will help take his mind off of the negativity and reinforce the positive family influence. 

I also agree with the physical outlet - sports, martial arts.  Wrestling helped me when I was a teenager, and my nephew (who is mildly autistic) thrives in full-contact football and martial arts.

[Chino]

Just letting you know that I'm here in solidarity with you.  My daughter is 6 and is having HUGE emotional swings, from cry-fests to jealousy of other kids, to absolutely raging tantrums.  We just contacted a child therapy place to get an appointment so she can have an outlet for some of these emotions.  We don't know how to deal with it anymore at home.  It's to the point where we do have to go old-school parent and shout as loud as we can during the tantrums to scare her into stopping the behavior.  Nothing else works.

I'm asking this as a non-parent and as someone with virtually no experience with children until just recently... Is it possible that's completely okay and natural behavior, and maybe what's required? I mean, pretty much every mammal on Earth uses some kind of physical and audible method of keeping their offspring in check. I'm not suggesting the answer to everything is to verbally berate your child, but if a kid is bugging out and a parent towering over them and interrupting that train of thought with a louder cry is what checks them for a minute, is that bad?

[Grappler]

Just letting you know that I'm here in solidarity with you.  My daughter is 6 and is having HUGE emotional swings, from cry-fests to jealousy of other kids, to absolutely raging tantrums.  We just contacted a child therapy place to get an appointment so she can have an outlet for some of these emotions.  We don't know how to deal with it anymore at home.  It's to the point where we do have to go old-school parent and shout as loud as we can during the tantrums to scare her into stopping the behavior.  Nothing else works.

I'm asking this as a non-parent and as someone with virtually no experience with children until just recently... Is it possible that's completely okay and natural behavior, and maybe what's required? I mean, pretty much every mammal on Earth uses some kind of physical and audible method of keeping their offspring in check. I'm not suggesting the answer to everything is to verbally berate your child, but if a kid is bugging out and a parent towering over them and interrupting that train of thought with a louder cry is what checks them for a minute, is that bad?

I honestly don't know.  We hate doing it - we've had to spank her and it feels awful.  Same with having to yell louder and more aggressive than her in order to make her snap out of it.  We've all had those experiences from our parents (my dad chased my brother threw the house and knocked his bedroom door off of the hinges in order to scare him enough to get him to adjust his attitude), but maybe there is a better way to reach her that doesn't involve potential emotional scarring.  Not that she's that affected by it - she knows the reason why it happens and it only happens for that specific reason, but I do have fears of her growing up and looking back on things and being affected by it.

She's admitted things to us afterwards, telling us the reasons that she was upset.  Maybe if she talks to a child therapist, she can talk to someone other than us and get them out before resorting to being upset or throwing a tantrum.  She can also learn to cope with her emotions.  There's a lot that goes into it, from learning to navigate a new school year, navigating the pandemic, jealousy of other kids.  Some of it's normal kid stuff, some of it is forced on her because of this stupid pandemic and how schools and life is changing compared to how it used to be.

I have no problem trying a different approach, since the current course doesn't seem to be working.

[Stadler]

Just letting you know that I'm here in solidarity with you.  My daughter is 6 and is having HUGE emotional swings, from cry-fests to jealousy of other kids, to absolutely raging tantrums.  We just contacted a child therapy place to get an appointment so she can have an outlet for some of these emotions.  We don't know how to deal with it anymore at home.  It's to the point where we do have to go old-school parent and shout as loud as we can during the tantrums to scare her into stopping the behavior.  Nothing else works.

I'm asking this as a non-parent and as someone with virtually no experience with children until just recently... Is it possible that's completely okay and natural behavior, and maybe what's required? I mean, pretty much every mammal on Earth uses some kind of physical and audible method of keeping their offspring in check. I'm not suggesting the answer to everything is to verbally berate your child, but if a kid is bugging out and a parent towering over them and interrupting that train of thought with a louder cry is what checks them for a minute, is that bad?

I'm no expert either, but I think it's like anything else and depends on context.   My kid's mom was a yeller.  Not at her, but she'd freak out and start screaming at me or whoever.  So yelling at my daughter had "baggage" to it and didn't usually work in any productive way.   With my daughter - and I stress that this is one experience with one child in one very specific environment - the CALMER I got the better it worked.   Always a challenge, mind you, but that was the key there.  I know I can't really remember much about "discipline" in my family except that I was rarely if ever spanked, and almost always just yelled at, but it largely worked.   I'm not especially fond of people who yell now as an adult, and I don't know if that's remnants of my childhood or something else, but as a kid that's how my attention was focused.

[TAC]

My father perfected the Mike Brady look.

[MoraWintersoul]

I self-harmed several times when I was his age. I think it was social contagion - at some point you learn people do this thing sometimes and when your emotions get extreme enough something takes over and you try it just to see if it helps. It doesn't really, but now you're a person who did that, and when you do it twice, you're a person who does stuff like that.

A lot of things happen that make teenagers have these extreme emotions - both external and internal factors, as you said. I'd focus on how it doesn't do anything except harm him, it's not gonna make it easier to live in the world with people or with himself. If I could go back, I would make it far less obvious that I was a depressed young teen. One professor called me out once in front of the class for some song lyrics I'd carved into the desk (such cliche) and asked me to go see the school psychologist, and I was absolutely mortified, not because there's anything inherently embarrassing about having bad mental health, but because:

people 'suck'

and they didn't deserve to know me like that *shrug*. Does that make sense? It sucked that these people who made my life worse (just because kids can sense who's different) knew anything about me at all. The school mill from Another Brick In The Wall always spits out people like us but we can try and minimize harm, or at least balance harms with the good stuff, which is where you as a parent can step in and give him some great experiences.

[cramx3]

Sorry to read about your son Gary.  That must be so heartbreaking to see and try to handle as a parent.  I don't really have any advice to add, but I hope someone or something can get through to him to see the more positives in life.

On a side note, stuff like this makes me scared af to be a parent and one of many reasons why I don't see myself having kids.  Not only would it be so difficult to handle, I feel like I wouldn't even have answers.  Like, I even believe the world is going towards a bad place?  How can I protect a kid from doing down with it? I'd guess as someone else said, focus on the things you can control, but that's easier said than done especially in today's socially interconnected world we live in.

[TAC]

Marc, if I knew how much I would worry, I would've never had them.

[Cool Chris]

On a side note, stuff like this makes me scared af to be a parent and one of many reasons why I don't see myself having kids.  Not only would it be so difficult to handle, I feel like I wouldn't even have answers.

No one has the answers. And don't think those millions of books on the shelves at Barnes and Noble do, because they don't. It's a learning process, and we do the best we can. And with a little luck, a little grace, and a ton of love and perseverance, they turn out alright.

[Herrick]

He's a freshman in high school now....so that change is a weird time....he is a bit socially awkward and odd but he's such a good and sweet kid. I know he's going through some stuff and I think he's dealing with and noticing the differences between him and other kids and maybe that's bothering him..... but it's just heartbreaking to see him struggle like this. This past year or two as we know has been choc full of horrible news.....he's a big climate/care for the earth soul and he's always talking about how we're ruining the planet. I've tried to talk to him and encourage him to be a kid for a while and not 'worry' about such adult things but he just gets fixated on them. When my wife and I try to speak to him about this all he really doesn't want to....just says that we don't understand what it's like being him and doesn't see what the big deal is.

I do not know you obviously but I am very sorry for what your family is going through. I know that's a typical response but I do mean it. Have you or you son looked into some sort of environmental group/activities? I don't know if that would make the situation better or worse...I doubt the environmen is the root cause of all this. Just throwing it out there. It's probably something you've already thought about.

[Stadler]

Marc, if I knew how much I would worry, I would've never had them.

Yeah, and there's no way to realistically foresee how broadly that applies.  When my daughter was born in 2001, I not only had no idea what I was really in for, but I had no idea to what degree the world would change in that time.  There was no COVID.  There was no (in my world) social media.  There was no real political divisiveness like we see today.  There was no visible national insecurity of the type that has led to what we're seeing today in terms of mass killings and what not.   For me, anyway, the concept of divorce was "for other people" and the concept of "therapy" - for me or for my kid was foreign.  Fast forward, I'm now divorced and both my kid and I are (proactively) in therapy for different reasons.

[gmillerdrake]

He's a freshman in high school now....so that change is a weird time....he is a bit socially awkward and odd but he's such a good and sweet kid. I know he's going through some stuff and I think he's dealing with and noticing the differences between him and other kids and maybe that's bothering him..... but it's just heartbreaking to see him struggle like this. This past year or two as we know has been choc full of horrible news.....he's a big climate/care for the earth soul and he's always talking about how we're ruining the planet. I've tried to talk to him and encourage him to be a kid for a while and not 'worry' about such adult things but he just gets fixated on them. When my wife and I try to speak to him about this all he really doesn't want to....just says that we don't understand what it's like being him and doesn't see what the big deal is.

I do not know you obviously but I am very sorry for what your family is going through. I know that's a typical response but I do mean it. Have you or you son looked into some sort of environmental group/activities? I don't know if that would make the situation better or worse...I doubt the environmen is the root cause of all this. Just throwing it out there. It's probably something you've already thought about.

He is in 'School of Rock' which has been great for him. He made a lot of friends in his last session and the new session is coming up and he's really looking forward to it. I appreciate the thought and idea...we're certainly looking to keep him engaged and exposed to group activities. Definitely don't want him to saunter off and become a recluse at this stage.

Just as an update of sorts.....not that I think this has magically disappeared but ever since the last deep and serious conversation his mother and I had with him last Friday night.....the marks on his arms look nearly healed....so the next day or two will be revealing as this is when he's usually scratched and messed with them to keep them noticeable. They've not been to the point of fully healed for some time now...I'd say three or four months. So I'm not going to bring it up to him because the last time I did that I said "hey bud....really proud of you to see your marks are going away" and literally an hour later they were back. So, I'm going to just lay off and see what happens.

[wolfking]

Sorry to read about your son Gary.  That must be so heartbreaking to see and try to handle as a parent.  I don't really have any advice to add, but I hope someone or something can get through to him to see the more positives in life.

On a side note, stuff like this makes me scared af to be a parent and one of many reasons why I don't see myself having kids.  Not only would it be so difficult to handle, I feel like I wouldn't even have answers.  Like, I even believe the world is going towards a bad place?  How can I protect a kid from doing down with it? I'd guess as someone else said, focus on the things you can control, but that's easier said than done especially in today's socially interconnected world we live in.

A bit late, but sorry to read that Gary.  Hope things are improving.

But I'm with Marc here.  Truth be told Gary, while I'm in not into self harm, I feel what your son feels.  The hopelessness, the what's the point and I'm insignificant feelings are things I myself tussle with getting older.  I don't think I was that bad at your sons age though.  Never been suicidal myself so reading your post, I'd believe him when he tells you he's not.  He's just maybe too young and not mature enough to handle these feelings that are real.

So, yes, I don't think I could bring children into the world.  To have a child and have them depressed and go through things I feel is just not fair.  I'm not saying I'm depressed either but I thought things may change but how things are in this world to, I see no positive in it for me.

[wolfking]

Marc, if I knew how much I would worry, I would've never had them.

Wow!

[gmillerdrake]

A bit late, but sorry to read that Gary.  Hope things are improving.

Thank you sir.....and things have been improving. His mother and I had a VERY long and serious talk with him about two weeks ago, really just laid it all out there. Since then, the marks on his arm are nearly gone and he's not so stand off-ish when we talk to him about this issue. He went to his first Homecoming last weekend after being set up with a date by his buddy.....the next session of School of Rock has begun and he and his brother are in that together (their artist to learn songs from this round is RUSH  )

But all in all we have seen improvement but by no means am I considering this 'over'. I know how long these battles can go and am just going to try and be there in any way, shape or form that I can for him.

[jingle.boy]

Very relieved to hear that the progress is going in a positive direction.

[King Postwhore]

That's great to hear Gary!

[gmillerdrake]

Very relieved to hear that the progress is going in a positive direction.

That's great to hear Gary!

Thanks fellas and thank to all of you who have given advice/support. It truly means a lot

[TAC]

A bit late, but sorry to read that Gary.  Hope things are improving.

Thank you sir.....and things have been improving. His mother and I had a VERY long and serious talk with him about two weeks ago, really just laid it all out there. Since then, the marks on his arm are nearly gone and he's not so stand off-ish when we talk to him about this issue. He went to his first Homecoming last weekend after being set up with a date by his buddy.....the next session of School of Rock has begun and he and his brother are in that together (their artist to learn songs from this round is RUSH  )

But all in all we have seen improvement but by no means am I considering this 'over'. I know how long these battles can go and am just going to try and be there in any way, shape or form that I can for him.

Any step forward is a blessing. That's great to hear. Your family seems together on this, and that will hopefully find the stability he needs. Keep it up Gary. We're all thinking of you.

[gmillerdrake]

A bit late, but sorry to read that Gary.  Hope things are improving.

Thank you sir.....and things have been improving. His mother and I had a VERY long and serious talk with him about two weeks ago, really just laid it all out there. Since then, the marks on his arm are nearly gone and he's not so stand off-ish when we talk to him about this issue. He went to his first Homecoming last weekend after being set up with a date by his buddy.....the next session of School of Rock has begun and he and his brother are in that together (their artist to learn songs from this round is RUSH  )

But all in all we have seen improvement but by no means am I considering this 'over'. I know how long these battles can go and am just going to try and be there in any way, shape or form that I can for him.

Any step forward is a blessing. That's great to hear. Your family seems together on this, and that will hopefully find the stability he needs. Keep it up Gary. We're all thinking of you.

Well that blew up in my face.

Yesterday his forearm was nearly 100% healed....you'd have had to known what to look for that's how good it was looking. He walked in from school today holding his arm behind his back and I immediately knew.....he walked over to me and gave me a big hug....was happy....didn't want to let me go.....but I knew.

We stopped hugging and I looked at his arm and saw the marks and looked at him and he wouldn't look at me and walked over to get a drink. I nearly blew my F'n lid....but kept semi-calm and was just like 'buddy....it was nearly all gone?" He shut down and didn't want to talk...kept trying to get around me as I wanted to keep talking and finally I just let him walk away to go to his room.



I am completely lost as to what to do. I don't know what else TO do. I'm just crushed right now........

[wolfking]

That's heartbreaking mate, sorry to hear that. 

Being without children I wouldn't dare try and give you advice I'm sorry, I wouldn't know where to start.  Do you try and convince him to go with you for professional help?

[gmillerdrake]

That's heartbreaking mate, sorry to hear that. 

Being without children I wouldn't dare try and give you advice I'm sorry, I wouldn't know where to start.  Do you try and convince him to go with you for professional help?

He is receiving professional counseling. He just isn't all that engaged when it comes to really discussing what's going on. His 'point' in all of this is that 'we' don't understand what he's going through....no one understands.....etc etc. I get it, we've all been teenagers and dealt with many things but he is very reluctant to accept advice or help. It's as if he is just choosing to stay in this self pity mode or something.

[TAC]

A bit late, but sorry to read that Gary.  Hope things are improving.

Thank you sir.....and things have been improving. His mother and I had a VERY long and serious talk with him about two weeks ago, really just laid it all out there. Since then, the marks on his arm are nearly gone and he's not so stand off-ish when we talk to him about this issue. He went to his first Homecoming last weekend after being set up with a date by his buddy.....the next session of School of Rock has begun and he and his brother are in that together (their artist to learn songs from this round is RUSH  )

But all in all we have seen improvement but by no means am I considering this 'over'. I know how long these battles can go and am just going to try and be there in any way, shape or form that I can for him.

Any step forward is a blessing. That's great to hear. Your family seems together on this, and that will hopefully find the stability he needs. Keep it up Gary. We're all thinking of you.

Well that blew up in my face.

Yesterday his forearm was nearly 100% healed....you'd have had to known what to look for that's how good it was looking. He walked in from school today holding his arm behind his back and I immediately knew.....he walked over to me and gave me a big hug....was happy....didn't want to let me go.....but I knew.

We stopped hugging and I looked at his arm and saw the marks and looked at him and he wouldn't look at me and walked over to get a drink. I nearly blew my F'n lid....but kept semi-calm and was just like 'buddy....it was nearly all gone?" He shut down and didn't want to talk...kept trying to get around me as I wanted to keep talking and finally I just let him walk away to go to his room.



I am completely lost as to what to do. I don't know what else TO do. I'm just crushed right now........

Fuck.

That's heartbreaking mate, sorry to hear that. 

Being without children I wouldn't dare try and give you advice I'm sorry, I wouldn't know where to start.  Do you try and convince him to go with you for professional help?

He is receiving professional counseling. He just isn't all that engaged when it comes to really discussing what's going on. His 'point' in all of this is that 'we' don't understand what he's going through....no one understands.....etc etc. I get it, we've all been teenagers and dealt with many things but he is very reluctant to accept advice or help. It's as if he is just choosing to stay in this self pity mode or something.

Gary, I have two, er three questions..

1. Does he have friends or a best friend, and if so, do you know the parents, and might you discuss what's going on? They could be going through the something similar, or maybe if not, they could ask their child about yours in a roundabout way.

2. Do you have access to his social media/computer? Many kids have two IG accounts. One for family to see, and then another for their friends.
Would you consider hiring someone to go through his computer system?

3. Have you searched his room for clues while he's at school? Things like drawings, some kind of journal..

[gmillerdrake]

@Tim


1. Does he have friends or a best friend, and if so, do you know the parents, and might you discuss what's going on? They could be going through the something similar, or maybe if not, they could ask their child about yours in a roundabout way.  We have involved everyone of his close friends parents as we are close with them. We're all at a loss over this. It's very confusing


2. Do you have access to his social media/computer? Many kids have two IG accounts. One for family to see, and then another for their friends.
Would you consider hiring someone to go through his computer system?   I monitor and control all the boys access to the internet and we regularly look through their phones and computer. He only has one Instagram account that I am aware of.


3. Have you searched his room for clues while he's at school? Things like drawings, some kind of journal..   He does do both, journal and draw quite a bit. I haven't read his journal in some time. His pics seem to be pretty tame.

[TAC]

Gary, seems like you're doing all you can do. Keep at it. I'm feel awful just reading about it.

[Adami]

My hearts with you buddy. You have my number.

[gmillerdrake]

My hearts with you buddy. You have my number.

Yep and I thank you deeply. What you sent me already was eye opening and needed. Just hearing an explanation of sorts and having suggestions in a straight forward way was great to get. I really do appreciate it so if you see a (314) area code pop up it's probably me.

[jingle.boy]

Well that blew up in my face.

Yesterday his forearm was nearly 100% healed....you'd have had to known what to look for that's how good it was looking. He walked in from school today holding his arm behind his back and I immediately knew.....he walked over to me and gave me a big hug....was happy....didn't want to let me go.....but I knew.

We stopped hugging and I looked at his arm and saw the marks and looked at him and he wouldn't look at me and walked over to get a drink. I nearly blew my F'n lid....but kept semi-calm and was just like 'buddy....it was nearly all gone?" He shut down and didn't want to talk...kept trying to get around me as I wanted to keep talking and finally I just let him walk away to go to his room.



I am completely lost as to what to do. I don't know what else TO do. I'm just crushed right now........

Oh man, I was just gutted reading this last night.  If I were you, I'd take Adami's professional advice over mine, but I do have a couple of things that came to mind.  First, I heard recently "anger is a secondary emotion".  Maybe this is something he needs to hear from you and Mrs Miller - that anytime your anger comes through (or even if he thinks you're angry), that it's really things like fear and sadness manifesting itself as anger.  Also, have you shared with him any of your emotional/mental health struggles from your youth/early 20s?  I have no idea if it will help or hurt.  Lastly, it seems that he's ashamed of the situation himself - trying to hide it from you.  Not sure if it's ashamed of himself for doing it, or ashamed of disappointing his parents.  Maybe this is a good thing (his shame)?? We all have things we are shameful and/or feel unworthy about.

Damn man, I can't begin to imagine how stressful this is.

[Adami]

First, I heard recently "anger is a secondary emotion".  Maybe this is something he needs to hear from you and Mrs Miller - that anytime your anger comes through (or even if he thinks you're angry), that it's really things like fear and sadness manifesting itself as anger.  Also, have you shared with him any of your emotional/mental health struggles from your youth/early 20s? 

 

[gmillerdrake]

Oh man, I was just gutted reading this last night.  If I were you, I'd take Adami's professional advice over mine, but I do have a couple of things that came to mind.  First, I heard recently "anger is a secondary emotion".  Maybe this is something he needs to hear from you and Mrs Miller - that anytime your anger comes through (or even if he thinks you're angry), that it's really things like fear and sadness manifesting itself as anger.  Also, have you shared with him any of your emotional/mental health struggles from your youth/early 20s?  I have no idea if it will help or hurt.  Lastly, it seems that he's ashamed of the situation himself - trying to hide it from you.  Not sure if it's ashamed of himself for doing it, or ashamed of disappointing his parents.  Maybe this is a good thing (his shame)?? We all have things we are shameful and/or feel unworthy about.

Chad....I have spoke at length with him about my struggles....why I went through a period of self harm, I've been very open and honest with him. He told me he was really sad that those things happened to me and that I had to go through it but assured me that he wasn't being molested or sexually abused. His 'mantra' if you will is he insists that no one understands what he's going through, that he can't explain it but that no one 'gets' it.

I've tried to relate with him by telling him that I do understand because I've been there but it just doesn't click with him. He has mentioned several times that he 'knows that we are disappointed with him' so I'm certain there's a level of shame there. He receives help in school in math and english as his comprehension takes a bit of reassurance and work for him to fully grasp some concepts. This also affects his ability to articulate his point clearly at times. I think that has worked it's way into his social environment now as he's said many times that he 'knows he's different'

I've tried to help him understand that everyone is who they are and that I LOVE who he is....that it's not only ok to be different it's really awesome who he is. But, mix in starting high school, our current state of culture, the fact he worries continuously about our planet being destroyed.....he's just overwhelmed. I keep searching for the perfect phrase to express to him that'll help it all make sense and help him 'snap' out of it but I just can't seem to find it.

[cramx3]

Sad to read what's happening, but even when you were posting about things seemingly better, you knew this wasn't over.  Just got to keep up with being the good supporting parent you are. 

As for the "no one understands" I think we've all been in that position when we were young and felt like no one's ever been in our shoes before.  It takes age to realize that's not completely true so I'm not entirely sure that's something you can easily explain even with your own past that can very much relate, it's just not going to click for him yet. 

This sucks so much and I feel terrible for you and your family, all I can say is we all know how much you love your son and how hard you are trying so just got to stay strong and keep doing what you feel is best. 

[v_clortho]

Sad to read what's happening, but even when you were posting about things seemingly better, you knew this wasn't over.  Just got to keep up with being the good supporting parent you are. 

As for the "no one understands" I think we've all been in that position when we were young and felt like no one's ever been in our shoes before.  It takes age to realize that's not completely true so I'm not entirely sure that's something you can easily explain even with your own past that can very much relate, it's just not going to click for him yet. 

This sucks so much and I feel terrible for you and your family, all I can say is we all know how much you love your son and how hard you are trying so just got to stay strong and keep doing what you feel is best.

All of this. Sorry you are going through this. Hang in there.