Parenting/marital advice

[cramx3]

But seriously, at age 29, I am woefully unsuccessful in romance and have no idea what I'm talking about, and I don't feel that I can contribute to this discussion as well as some of the wiser, more experienced people here. I have not yet been broken by the world.

I think this opening statement kind of sets the pace for having such a distorted view on relationships.  You have no experience so you have no idea other than a dream of landing a hot young chick that will please you as you age.

The reality is, unless you are super rich and don't mind buying such a woman (a la Trump and Melania, who I'm sure isn't doing the pleasuring part anymore), this just flat out does not exist.

Also, I don't see how your religious views align at all with your relationship views.  If no sex before marriage is what you want to do, that's cool, but you are going to really find it even more difficult to be with happy sexual relationship if you have no idea what sex is even like so being so critical of it all is a very bad way to think about this.

I like "hippos" which I assume refers to "bigger women". It's actually what attracts me. Big Time.

I mean, there's a certain point where the larger women are too large for me, but generally, I do like thick girls too. The jokes about large girls giving great head seems to be true from my experience  but seriously, as I get older and older, the personality gets more and more important than size or looks.  Beauty fades but personality stays, that's what you need to match with for the long term.  You'd learn this if you are in a long term relationship.

[King Postwhore]

H2, what most of us see is what you articulated first.  That's what is really on your mind with the relationship.  What most of us guys who have been married a long time are saying that while those are important, there are other key factors to a relationship that matters to the other in the relationship.  Your focus seems to be on your needs instead of the other's needs.  I've learned over the 26 years of marriage that if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to your needs.

If the other person in the relationship is unhappy, you will be unhappy.

[Podaar]

Reading this thread with Mrs. P has been one of the highlights of my week. Thanks to everyone involved, and I mean that sincerely!

[lordxizor]

I've learned over the 26 years of marriage that if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to your needs.

If the other person in the relationship is unhappy, you will be unhappy.

So, I think I was really terrible at explaining things in the beginning, and came across as demanding or whatever, but this statement above is essentially what my issue was. I focused on sex, because I thought you all could relate to more and is easier to explain. But it's about more than that.

I don't feel at all like these statements apply to me. For 11 years I felt like I had been pouring my heart and soul into meeting her needs, but felt l was getting just the bare minimum in return from her. There seemed to be minimal effort on her part to meet my needs, sexually and otherwise. If it was important to her I made it important to me. If I said it was important to me, she dug in her heels and refused to budge, and she readily admits this. I was unhappy, but she never expressed anything but happiness in our marriage, even when we started being more open about stuff.

Things have been better the last year, but still far short of me feeling like "if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to my needs" is completely accurate for us. I know it doesn't need to be an even exchange of one to one acts of service toward each other, but two years ago I would say it was closer to 30 to one me doing things for her and her doing things for me.

[King Postwhore]

Hey, we all all have the need for sex.  It's a release of tension but also a way of showing we care. We also have to look at the other's needs in the relationship.  Maybe sex isn't priority because there is something else weighing that's taking up more of their time.  So the focus should be what is needed for the other's need at that moment.

[King Postwhore]

I've learned over the 26 years of marriage that if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to your needs.

If the other person in the relationship is unhappy, you will be unhappy.

So, I think I was really terrible at explaining things in the beginning, and came across as demanding or whatever, but this statement above is essentially what my issue was. I focused on sex, because I thought you all could relate to more and is easier to explain. But it's about more than that.

I don't feel at all like these statements apply to me. For 11 years I felt like I had been pouring my heart and soul into meeting her needs, but felt l was getting just the bare minimum in return from her. There seemed to be minimal effort on her part to meet my needs, sexually and otherwise. If it was important to her I made it important to me. If I said it was important to me, she dug in her heels and refused to budge, and she readily admits this. I was unhappy, but she never expressed anything but happiness in our marriage, even when we started being more open about stuff.

Things have been better the last year, but still far short of me feeling like "if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to my needs" is completely accurate for us. I know it doesn't need to be an even exchange of one to one acts of service toward each other, but two years ago I would say it was closer to 30 to one me doing things for her and her doing things for me.

This is why you need to nudge her to counseling.  There is underlining issues.  Didn't you say you had a child 3 months ago?  Maybe it's postpartum depression. 

[lordxizor]

Hey, we all all have the need for sex.  It's a release of tension but also a way of showing we care. We also have to look at the other's needs in the relationship.  Maybe sex isn't priority because there is something else weighing that's taking up more of their time.  So the focus should be what is needed for the other's need at that moment.

Yeah, again, I felt like I took the time to think about and talk to her about her needs and adjust what I was doing accordingly. If she needed time to herself, I took the kids camping for the weekend. If she was overwhelmed with all the things she had taken on as a mom and homeschool teacher, I stepped up and did more work around the house. I made a point to talk to her about her day and try to connect that way every day (which is also important to me).

I know part of the issue is that I didn't communicate well with her what would have meant the most to me in return. I've now done that and she knows what she can do to make me feel valued and appreciated (and no, its not just sex, that's about third or fourth on the list). But she also admits that it wasn't a mystery what I wanted, but that my lack of speaking up for myself made it really easy for her to ignore my needs simply because she didn't want to meet them.

I feel like we're on a path to a better future, it's just hard to let go of the more than a decade of habits that were formed by both of us. And one of those habits for me was having a victim mentality that I wasn't being treated fairly or the way I deserved and that it was completely her fault. There are things I could have and should have done to make things better, but I kept it all in instead of speaking up or changing the way I was behaving.

[lordxizor]

I've learned over the 26 years of marriage that if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to your needs.

If the other person in the relationship is unhappy, you will be unhappy.

So, I think I was really terrible at explaining things in the beginning, and came across as demanding or whatever, but this statement above is essentially what my issue was. I focused on sex, because I thought you all could relate to more and is easier to explain. But it's about more than that.

I don't feel at all like these statements apply to me. For 11 years I felt like I had been pouring my heart and soul into meeting her needs, but felt l was getting just the bare minimum in return from her. There seemed to be minimal effort on her part to meet my needs, sexually and otherwise. If it was important to her I made it important to me. If I said it was important to me, she dug in her heels and refused to budge, and she readily admits this. I was unhappy, but she never expressed anything but happiness in our marriage, even when we started being more open about stuff.

Things have been better the last year, but still far short of me feeling like "if I focus on my wife's needs, she will pay attention to my needs" is completely accurate for us. I know it doesn't need to be an even exchange of one to one acts of service toward each other, but two years ago I would say it was closer to 30 to one me doing things for her and her doing things for me.

This is why you need to nudge her to counseling.  There is underlining issues.  Didn't you say you had a child 3 months ago?  Maybe it's postpartum depression. 

She's OK with this kid, but had it pretty bad on one of our others. And this is not a short term issue. It's been a struggle for 12 years. She definitely needs counselling and I encourage it every chance I get. I've offered to go with her. Honestly, I want to keep pushing things a little bit just to keep her uncomfortable enough so that she sees she needs it. Maybe that sounds mean... I don't want to hurt her... but she only seems to understand she could use help when she's realizing she's uncomfortable about the fact that her husband still desires her, which should be a good thing. I can't make her go obviously, and just us keeping the lines of communication open seems to help a great deal. I don't want to have to schedule a monthly "let's talk about your issues" meeting, but sometimes I think that would be almost as beneficial as therapy for her.

[TAC]

Reading this thread with Mrs. P has been one of the highlights of my week. Thanks to everyone involved, and I mean that sincerely!

Does she think I’m a dick too?

[King Postwhore]

Reading this thread with Mrs. P has been one of the highlights of my week. Thanks to everyone involved, and I mean that sincerely!

Does she think I’m a dick too?

Did you have to ask?

[jingle.boy]

H2, since you haven't seen it, at least watch this scene. It's most of what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRG2jlQWCsY

This is perhaps the greatest movie monologue of all time.  It's top 2 for me for sure.

[H2]

H2, since you haven't seen it, at least watch this scene. It's most of what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRG2jlQWCsY

Dang, that's pretty powerful.

I'm not sure where this leaves us in the discussion.

I don't mind sharing a belief-forming experience. Did you know I was more active in pursuing relationships? I had a few serious long-term girlfriends. One of them was a serious girlfriend for two years and we were talking about getting married. We talked every day, we were very vulnerable with each other, we saw each other often. The cold hard truth is that deep down, the entire time I felt I was "supposed" to be with her. Everyone was encouraging me into it, and she liked me a lot, and I told myself I probably had some divine calling to be with her, and I had a sense that I was morally obligated to hurry up and find my person. But in the end, I became so resentful and beside myself. I was "supposed" to be with her, but I really did not like her at all. That relationship cost me time, money, self-esteem, and integrity. Obviously, it hurt her a lot, too. So it was bad for everyone. Every day I had to suppress my inner voice that was crying for freedom. But luckily I had a way out. But I imagine that if I were married to her, well, owing to my religious beliefs, I'd be trapped. It'd be game over. I imagine lots of men and women stick together because they're "supposed to" even though they hate each others' guts. I can't even imagine how hellish and stifling that would be. So after ending things with her, I vowed that next time, I would act in my self-interest like a good capitalist and only enter situations that I actually wanted to be in, and I would ignore any outside influences or fake senses of obligation to be with someone. That results in the best thing for everyone: Go for the person you genuinely want and who genuinely wants you. That's what I've learned.

[TAC]

Reading this thread with Mrs. P has been one of the highlights of my week. Thanks to everyone involved, and I mean that sincerely!

Does she think I’m a dick too?

Did you have to ask?

 

Just thought I’d throw it out there. 

[jingle.boy]

H2, since you haven't seen it, at least watch this scene. It's most of what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRG2jlQWCsY

Dang, that's pretty powerful.

I'm not sure where this leaves us in the discussion.

I don't mind sharing a belief-forming experience. Did you know I was more active in pursuing relationships? I had a few serious long-term girlfriends. One of them was a serious girlfriend for two years and we were talking about getting married. We talked every day, we were very vulnerable with each other, we saw each other often. The cold hard truth is that deep down, the entire time I felt I was "supposed" to be with her. Everyone was encouraging me into it, and she liked me a lot, and I told myself I probably had some divine calling to be with her, and I had a sense that I was morally obligated to hurry up and find my person. But in the end, I became so resentful and beside myself. I was "supposed" to be with her, but I really did not like her at all. That relationship cost me time, money, self-esteem, and integrity. Obviously, it hurt her a lot, too. So it was bad for everyone. Every day I had to suppress my inner voice that was crying for freedom. But luckily I had a way out. But I imagine that if I were married to her, well, owing to my religious beliefs, I'd be trapped. It'd be game over. I imagine lots of men and women stick together because they're "supposed to" even though they hate each others' guts. I can't even imagine how hellish and stifling that would be. So after ending things with her, I vowed that next time, I would act in my self-interest like a good capitalist and only enter situations that I actually wanted to be in, and I would ignore any outside influences or fake senses of obligation to be with someone. That results in the best thing for everyone: Go for the person you genuinely want and who genuinely wants you. That's what I've learned.

Now this is totally fair and understandable.

[Adami]

I don't have a ton to add that isn't just redundant but I'll try to see if I can throw in something for you Brother H.

You appear, and I could be wrong, to be approaching your future love/romance from a reductionist point of view. You are boiling it down to certain elements, traits, etc., all of which can be helpful (given where you're coming from) but none do the job.

It'd be like describing a painting to me and having me re-create it from your description. Yes, the painting does have red and green and black. Yes the painting is of a dog eating Stadler's knee hanging balls. Yes the painting is 56' x 23'. But whatever thing I paint won't be that painting because you can't boil something like that down to descriptions. Just like love or a healthy relationship. It's not a mathematical equation. It's not a business contact (unless you really do want it to be one). It's not a structure based on a blueprint. It is a unique, dynamic, unpredictable, and fragile creation that comes about by the extremely unique elements of you, the other person(s), the context of the relationship, and everything else that could influence it.

Your description reads like a business contract or an equation and I think that any of us who have been in happy relationships realize that this isn't how it works. If you want a marriage that is based less on genuine and spontaneous love and affection and more based around an exchange of services provided, such as you provide money, a home, seed for her eggs, a companion to engage in pre-agreed upon activities etc., and she provides a healthy womb, services in the kitchen and home and so forth, then you can probably find that girl (lord knows they're out there) and you may well be happy, but i doubt anyone else reading this would, and that's probably where you're seeing such a strong reaction.

If this is NOT how you want things, then I'll use myself as an example. I am 36 (the age you stated you wanted to be). I am not in amazing physical shape, I am bald, I am almost 200,000 in student debt, and I have a surprisingly low sex drive (I think Lordxizor would have a heart attack at that). Granted I am a professional psychologist, but if one were to focus on your objective list of things an ideal male mate could offer, I don't check off a ton of them. Yet, I have somehow, against all hope and, apparently, logic, found an amazing beautiful, lovely, fantastic partner that I can see a long and wonderful future with. And even more against your logic, she seems to love me as much as I love her. Did I go on a dating site and list all my negative attributions? No. Did I offer her some services rendered? Nah. I just realized, somewhere in my early 30's, that who I am, the core of me, is the part of me I want to work on. And I did. And now I am extremely happy with who I am. I'm pretty awesome, even if Stads would disagree.

I realized that all of those superficial things you seem to hate about yourself (which is pretty universal) don't matter a ton to the right person. Are there more women who would have turned me down than dated me? You betcha! But who cares? I don't need to be attractive to a billion women. Just the one I wanted. I hope that, one day, you'll figure this out. However, the more you externalize things and decide your value based on such merits, the less happy you'll be.

Based on how you describe yourself, I would suggest you have a good way to go but that the focus needs to be on YOU loving you, not getting someone else to love a version of you that you clearly aren't very fond of.

Anyway, that's all I got.

[jingle.boy]

Correction, it's TAC who admitted his nuts are running parallel with his knees.

[Adami]

Correction, it's TAC who admitted his nuts are running parallel with his knees.

Poetic license.

[Stadler]

Reading this thread with Mrs. P has been one of the highlights of my week. Thanks to everyone involved, and I mean that sincerely!

Does she think I’m a dick too?

Did you have to ask?

Mr. P:  Hey, honey, read this.
Mrs. P:  Who's the old guy? 

[H2]

@Adami

Thanks for the wisdom. I hope to be half as kind and compassionate and well-spoken as you by 36.

EDIT: I don't know, fellas. A lot has gone so well, just not in this department. I can only surmise what you guys are talking about re: making genuine connections with a person, as I feel I have tasted that at some points in life. I am happy for you guys.

[jingle.boy]

Correction, it's TAC who admitted his nuts are running parallel with his knees.

Poetic license.

Or first hand knowledge?

[Stadler]

Correction, it's TAC who admitted his nuts are running parallel with his knees.

Poetic license.

Or first hand knowledge?

Hang on, I'll get some pics....

[King Postwhore]

Correction, it's TAC who admitted his nuts are running parallel with his knees.

Poetic license.

Or first hand knowledge?

Hang on, I'll get some pics....

I'm guessing Polaroids.  TAC still used his.

[cramx3]

I am happy for you guys.

I am happy for the ones who have found it as well, I'm still searching, but trying to make sure I learn from my past relationships.

[gmillerdrake]

This will be a long post so I apologize...thanks to those of you who read it.

Teenagers....am I right? We have two teenage boys in the house and for the most part we're just dealing with the typical teenage stuff of raging hormones and some bickering....and just boy attitudes. Nothing out of the ordinary or that we can't handle. But onto the reason why I'm really posting is this.

Our 15 year old son has begun cutting himself. It's brutal as a parent to see your son doing this to himself, especially because he's such a sweet....great kid. We have him in counseling and we have a great support group around him trying to help but it's freaking heartbreaking. He's telling us that he sees no hope in the world, that people 'suck'.....that it doesn't matter anyway because no one really cares about him....just on and on. I broke down the other day when we were talking because he says he just really doesn't like himself....which is super upsetting because like I told him....I LOVE who he is. He truly is the sweetest soul and genuinely happy. He gets along with everyone and seemingly has a lot of friends.

He says that he's not always 'depressed' but that he just gets down and when he cuts himself he just feels like he's "there". I have cutting and self mutilation in my past because of some sexual abuse I suffered so I asked him if there was something happening to him....if someone was doing things to him and he swore to me 'no'. He just feels lost and doesn't see any hope in the world right now.

He's a freshman in high school now....so that change is a weird time....he is a bit socially awkward and odd but he's such a good and sweet kid. I know he's going through some stuff and I think he's dealing with and noticing the differences between him and other kids and maybe that's bothering him..... but it's just heartbreaking to see him struggle like this. This past year or two as we know has been choc full of horrible news.....he's a big climate/care for the earth soul and he's always talking about how we're ruining the planet. I've tried to talk to him and encourage him to be a kid for a while and not 'worry' about such adult things but he just gets fixated on them. When my wife and I try to speak to him about this all he really doesn't want to....just says that we don't understand what it's like being him and doesn't see what the big deal is.

The 'cuts' he's inflicting on himself right now are really just exaggerated scratches which is why I think some of this is him knowing he will get attention....but, like I told him sooner or later these surface cuts won't be enough and he's going to go deeper or more dramatic. He SWEARS he's not suicidal and loves us all and would never kill himself but this is so frightening. Just when the scratches and cuts are nearly healed he will open them back up by scratching them.

His counselor has told us that if we don't see improvement soon that we're looking at potentially having to hospitalize him    I cannot even believe this is something that could have to happen...but, we are just so confused as to how to fix this and help him. We've put a plan in place with his counselor and basically had a full blown heart to heart with him on Sunday and said.....this HAS to stop. We will do whatever he needs but sooner or later we may very well have to have him hospitalized. I'm just in shock actually.

My initial, primordial thought is to scream and yell at him and basically tell him to knock it the  off and go old school 50's father on him.....but I know him and that would be brutal. Plus, I know from all we've read on this that is not the approach to take but I feel so helpless not being able to fix this for him. I'm devastated and have no answers.

I'm not expecting any of you to have answers either....I really just needed a place to vent because as I said....I'm devastated right now and am heartbroken that I can't do anything to help my son out of this.

[Stadler]

School counselor, or private therapist?  Gary, if your experience is anything like mine (and I've written a little about it, but I can share more if need be; my oldest step daughter was bullied in the public school, my daughter has been in therapy for a couple years now, and my step son is on the spectrum and has an IEP also in a public school) the school counselors are not equipped for this.  Oh, they may have the training and the will, but their ultimate master isn't the student, it's the school (and the other kids/parents).

My step son doesn't cut, but he picks; he will pick his finger nails (and toe nails) down to the quick.  They will sometimes get infected and things spiral from there.  Like you, it's heartbreaking to watch kids at that age - still reasonably pure of soul and with the world in front of them - grasping at straws like that, and it instills a level of helplessness that is numbing.

I get it; mental health is a dicey subject under healthcare plans, and is EXPENSIVE without one.  Plus, specialties for kids that age are hard to find.  But before you hospitalize, I would at least look into having him speak to someone who is focused ONLY on this little boy, and who has the experience and expertise to get to the heart of it.  It might not solve the problem entirely, but it might at least give you all some hope. 

[gmillerdrake]

School counselor, or private therapist?  Gary, if your experience is anything like mine (and I've written a little about it, but I can share more if need be; my oldest step daughter was bullied in the public school, my daughter has been in therapy for a couple years now, and my step son is on the spectrum and has an IEP also in a public school) the school counselors are not equipped for this.  Oh, they may have the training and the will, but their ultimate master isn't the student, it's the school (and the other kids/parents).

My step son doesn't cut, but he picks; he will pick his finger nails (and toe nails) down to the quick.  They will sometimes get infected and things spiral from there.  Like you, it's heartbreaking to watch kids at that age - still reasonably pure of soul and with the world in front of them - grasping at straws like that, and it instills a level of helplessness that is numbing.

I get it; mental health is a dicey subject under healthcare plans, and is EXPENSIVE without one.  Plus, specialties for kids that age are hard to find.  But before you hospitalize, I would at least look into having him speak to someone who is focused ONLY on this little boy, and who has the experience and expertise to get to the heart of it.  It might not solve the problem entirely, but it might at least give you all some hope.

Private therapist Bill. We're using the same group that I used a few years back. I had a great experience with them and they have a very experienced staff. We found a pretty good fit for him. I will fight tooth and nail for him before we reach the hospitalization stage. I don't think it's needed. My son has an IEP and it's largely due to his inability to quickly conceptualize and comprehend things in the moment. It takes him a bit to 'get it' and even express himself clearly at times. I really think a lot of what is going on with him is 'normal' teenage things coupled with the fact he just has a hard time expressing himself. As I said....it's brutal as a parent to see and be kind of helpless and not be able to do anything for him. But.....I also had a period of time in my mid teens where I was mutilating myself way worse than what I've seen him do and I got through it.

But I appreciate the post Bill.

[Chino]

Damn, Gary. Tough spot as a parent for sure. I know it's completely anecdotal, but I intimately knew a number of people when I was in that exact same age bracket that'd cut themselves. But like your son, they seemed more like a cry for attention than anything resembling a means to an end. All of those people are now level-headed adults with families and stuff (though two have been sucked into pyramid schemes on FB pretty deep).

When my wife and I try to speak to him about this all he really doesn't want to....just says that we don't understand what it's like being him and doesn't see what the big deal is.

I don't know how religious your household is on a day-to-day basis, and I know you're not a "honk if you love Jesus" type, but any possibility he's got something going on, or conflicting urges (gay/bi/trans/etc) that he might be ashamed of? Something that might conflict with some of the teachings he's been exposed to?   


I regularly do what Bill's kid does. I shred the tips of my fingers until they bleed and have had a number of infections over the years stemming from basically tearing chunks of my fingernails out of my fingertips. It's directly correlated to how overwhelmed I am in life at the moment, and I think I do it subconsciously as a way to distract myself and kill time.

[jingle.boy]

Like I texted you, no advice I have is born out of 1st hand knowledge or experience, but what about a physical outlet.  I can't remember if you have him in hockey or not, but what about something more individual/physical as a means of release - boxing/martial arts kinda stuff??

Just spitballin here.

[Adami]

Feel free to PM me as well.

[gmillerdrake]

I don't know how religious your household is on a day-to-day basis, and I know you're not a "honk if you love Jesus" type, but any possibility he's got something going on, or conflicting urges (gay/bi/trans/etc) that he might be ashamed of? Something that might conflict with some of the teachings he's been exposed to?   

I don't think so...he seems to be pretty girl crazy but he did ask me a few months ago if you can die from masturbating too much    I told him no that if it was possible I'd never had made it to the age of 20. But seriously, we've had great conversations about sexuality so I don't suspect this is something going on but I can't be for certain.

Like I texted you, no advice I have is born out of 1st hand knowledge or experience, but what about a physical outlet.  I can't remember if you have him in hockey or not, but what about something more individual/physical as a means of release - boxing/martial arts kinda stuff??

Just spitballin here.

He does like to golf....and we've been a few times. But he's not a real sports type kid. He loves drumming and we have him in lessons and School of Rock where he's made a ton of friends. It's all so odd because he doesn't mope around and act all gloomy....he's truly 'happy' for the most part. He just says sometimes he gets down when he starts thinking about the world.

Feel free to PM me as well.

Thank you...I very well may soon.

[Harmony]

This is not my wheelhouse but I have raised teenagers who have had different issues/stressors to manage with therapy and the like.

My only thought or bit of advice is to think about when I've had thoughts - and I have them even now from time to time - that the world sucks and is a terrible place and other hopeless thoughts like that - is to purposefully focus my attention on things that I can control and things that show me the opposite is true.  To challenge my negative thought patterns, if you will.

Maybe your son would benefit from finding some way to harness one of his passions into something good for the world.  Or maybe an outlet where he can witness other young people making real differences for others.  Finding something tangible for him to experience where there is active good in the world can lead him to see things from a different perspective.  I get that this can be easier said than done.  Depression can make doing any one step forward feel like walking a mile.

But you know him.  You know what things get him excited or interested or passionate.  Find ways to tap into that.  Ask him to consider how he can "be the change" (sorry, I don't mean to be glib) and once he gets some momentum it will hopefully get easier.

After the last 18 months, it's hard for many people to see the good out there.  I certainly can't fault any young adult for having those feelings.

It might also help to find some program in your local area that provides DBT.  Even a group setting with other people who likewise struggle can help him feel less alone with his struggles.

And don't forget to take care of his dad.   

[gmillerdrake]

This is not my wheelhouse but I have raised teenagers who have had different issues/stressors to manage with therapy and the like.

My only thought or bit of advice is to think about when I've had thoughts - and I have them even now from time to time - that the world sucks and is a terrible place and other hopeless thoughts like that - is to purposefully focus my attention on things that I can control and things that show me the opposite is true.  To challenge my negative thought patterns, if you will.

Maybe your son would benefit from finding some way to harness one of his passions into something good for the world.  Or maybe an outlet where he can witness other young people making real differences for others.  Finding something tangible for him to experience where there is active good in the world can lead him to see things from a different perspective.  I get that this can be easier said than done.  Depression can make doing any one step forward feel like walking a mile.

But you know him.  You know what things get him excited or interested or passionate.  Find ways to tap into that.  Ask him to consider how he can "be the change" (sorry, I don't mean to be glib) and once he gets some momentum it will hopefully get easier.

After the last 18 months, it's hard for many people to see the good out there.  I certainly can't fault any young adult for having those feelings.

It might also help to find some program in your local area that provides DBT.  Even a group setting with other people who likewise struggle can help him feel less alone with his struggles.

And don't forget to take care of his dad.   

Thanks Harmony. His mom and I have spoke to him about while yes, there are some bad things in the world and it can look hopeless there are a ton of great things as well.....and have asked him to do what  you've brought up. Focus on the good and positive things that humanity has to offer to drown out the bad.

thank you all for the sentiments....I do appreciate it.

[Stadler]

I don't know how religious your household is on a day-to-day basis, and I know you're not a "honk if you love Jesus" type, but any possibility he's got something going on, or conflicting urges (gay/bi/trans/etc) that he might be ashamed of? Something that might conflict with some of the teachings he's been exposed to?   

I don't think so...he seems to be pretty girl crazy but he did ask me a few months ago if you can die from masturbating too much    I told him no that if it was possible I'd never had made it to the age of 20. But seriously, we've had great conversations about sexuality so I don't suspect this is something going on but I can't be for certain.

I'm sorry, buddy, but I had to laugh out loud at that one.  I think the DTF population would decrease by about three quarters if that was possible (myself included!). 

[gmillerdrake]

After the last 18 months, it's hard for many people to see the good out there.  I certainly can't fault any young adult for having those feelings.

I cannot imagine having to grow up and go through those weird years entering young adulthood with 24/7 news cycles pimping as much negativity as they can. Just being bombarded with brutal realities of the world that once parents were able to kind of insulate their kids from for a while. It's been a crazy 18-24 months.....put on top of that the climate change realizations and the racial things....it's tough to understand how a young mind would process this all.

[TAC]

Holy shit, Gary, I just read your post.

I don't even know what to say, but I'm so sorry you guys are going through this.

I live in a very small town. We had a suicide in our high school three years ago. My son is good friends with the girl's brother, and sat next to her in the Sax line in the band. Beautiful girl, hockey player. It was horrible.
My wife and I talked with my son endlessly about it and how he felt. It got me extremely nervous.

I can only wish you the best in taking care of your son. My heart really hurts for you.