Parenting/marital advice

[lordxizor]

One thing my wife and I talked about before we had kids was making sure we knew, and our kids knew, that our relationship was our number one priority. Even to the expense of our kids sometimes. God willing, my wife and I will be together for another 40+ years. The kids will move out in 8-14 years (hopefully). While we're certainly not going to neglect our kids and they do get the lion's share of our attention. They need to understand (and we need to remember) that our marriage needs to come before them frequently. We sort of forgot about this and have remembered it again with our conversations these last couple weeks.

[Cool Chris]

That is a great post. My wife and I have had that discussion, but have never laid out that premise so plainly and clearly with either ourselves or our kids. 

[jingle.boy]

Good advice for sure lordxi.  The jingle.marriage suffered at times over the years from prioritizing our role as parents vs our role as husband/wife.  We've struggled over the last couple of years to find meaningful time together doing something that we both enjoy - and I wish we'd put more effort in to that earlier in our marriage.  We were only together for 2 years before getting married (and only living together for 13 months before marriage), and then less than a year and a half before kids - so we don't really have a lot of time together just as us.  Now that the kids are grown (and one is mostly out of the house), and a couple of handful of other variables... we're finding it very challenging to do 'together' things, and simply enjoying one another.  I'm not saying we can't stand each other, but we're back into the scenario where our marriage is more of a business relationship / room-mates.  We've been there before when the kids were younger, but it's much different now that they are both adults.  We no longer have the role of 'parent' (ie, the kids NEED us to take care of them) to fall back on as our common bond.  Not sure I'm making sense, but for those of you in that situation with younger kids, and you find that most time is dedicated / for the kids in your role as parent, please - PLEASE - do not neglect your role as spouse.  It doesn't get any better or easier as the kids age - if anything, it is harder to get out of the hole that has been dug.

Not sure if any of that makes any sense or not.

Blaming the kids is really just an excuse for ignoring your own failings as a couple.

Bingo.

[Podaar]

Who is Dr. Laura?

She's a medical professional who can do surgery that installs the desire to GOOGLE IT YOUR-FUCKING-SELF!

[lordxizor]

We were only together for 2 years before getting married (and only living together for 13 months before marriage), and then less than a year and a half before kids - so we don't really have a lot of time together just as us. 

We're a little in that same boat. Together less than a year and a half before getting married and basically didn't live together in any meaningful way before getting married. We got pregnant (a partial oops) after less than two years of marriage. I do regret not having enough just us time before having kids. I have to remind myself that while it was a great and fun time for us in the beginning, it wasn't perfect. There were growing pains of being together all the time and we certainly had our share of frustrations. There are a few things about that time I would love to be able to recreate now. Some are achievable and some probably aren't. Being a man, most of the them revolve around sex. 

[gmillerdrake]

We were only together for 2 years before getting married (and only living together for 13 months before marriage), and then less than a year and a half before kids

We met, a year later were engaged, a year later were married and (10) months later had our first son. We did not live together until we were married.

SO busy right now with the kiddos. Band practice, music lessons, hockey practice and games and so on....then throw in our jobs....more like roommates these days that see each other in crossing.
 
We both know that we’re both hyper focused and invested in the kids right now....we’ve taken a back seat to them so to speak. We’ve been working on how to fix this but it’s just tough. Thankfully we have a solid love for each other so we’ve been weathering the storm but as for me.....I know there’s more I could be doing as a husband probably to help stave off some of the little trivial stuff....I just haven’t been good at it lately.

Allowing your kids to have experiences and to become well adjusted for life is certainly important.  But, just based on what you posted, you sound WAY too busy.  And, in my view, your relationship with your wife shouldn't take a back seat.

My advice, have your children involved in fewer things and use that money and time instead to take your wife out on dates.  It doesn't have to be extravagant.  Play board games together if money is tight, read a book together and talk about it.  Take turns choosing movies to rent.  Make a dessert together.  Take a walk together.  Also, try calling each other on your lunch breaks.  In general take more together time away from your children.

Your children will see the investment you're making in each other and they will thank you for it.  And they will learn more from that than any extra curricular activities.

And this isn't meant to be a criticism of your choices, I'm just trying to be helpful.

P/S my wife helped me write this post 

Yeah....I can see how that looks extremely busy. It 'feels' busy. But we do like the fact that the kiddos aren't 'lazy'. These things they are doing are things THEY want to do. We/I've never forced them into a sport or activity out of some sense of 'living through my kids' or because they 'have' to. The music, hockey and cross country are things they enjoy doing so I/we give them the opportunity to do them.

As far as my wife and I go....we both know that we've neglected each other at times. We talk about it and identify when it's happening. What we're not really good at is sticking with going out on at least one date once a month or making time for one another. When we do realize it's been a while for this or that and get into spending more time together....it will tail off after a bit. Just...life happening.

I would not say that I'm unhappy in my marriage.....and I 'think' my wife wouldn't either. But, I know we both could be more in to each other at times.

[millahh]

So I'm taking a leap by opening up about this this, but...I think my wife and I will start trying for a kid this spring.  Since I'm 43 and she's 40 (and because I got snipped about ten years ago!), it will be IVF.

For a long time, neither of us wanted to be parents, and I don't think necessarily even trusted ourselves to be parents.  Between the two of us, we were on the receiving end of: religious abuse*, financial abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse, emotional incest...basically, everything but substance abuse.  Needless to say, our lives as individuals and as a couple have been quite challenging. We have both cut off one parent and are barely in contact with the other, and things with siblings are...a little awkward?  But as we've both been healing and building up what was systemically thwarted and stolen from us by our "caregivers", we are both feeling like not only can we do this, but it seems increasingly weird not to.

We'll see how things go, and we are prepared for the possibility that it might not work, are ok with that, and won't take heroic measures. But yeah, we might be taking the leap after all...



*This is why I pretty much stay out of P/R anymore, my enmity for evangelicals/fundamentalists makes it rather easy to boil over in any discussion, so I just stay out

[Podaar]

Best of luck, millahh. While that's not a step I would take at your age, I really admire you and your wife's well thought out decision. I love my children and grandchildren, and can't imagine life without them. Still, if I had it all to do over again, I don't think I would have had children unless I gave it as much consideration as you have. Needless to say, my having children at a young age was pretty elemental.

[TAC]

Mill, That's great and good luck.

Have you considered (I'm sure you have) what child care will look like? Will the both of you continue to work full time? You mention cutting off parents. Can you count on the others for help? If your kid is sick, who takes the days off?

I have a special needs son who my wife wouldn't let anyone watch when he was younger. Her parents both worked and mine were in Florida. It was absolutely brutal piecing together work and child coverage schedules. Once my kids were of a certain age, we did have them in a very small bit of daycare. But even then, we never used that full time, just to take the edges off.

[Northern Lion]

So I'm taking a leap by opening up about this this, but...I think my wife and I will start trying for a kid this spring.  Since I'm 43 and she's 40 (and because I got snipped about ten years ago!), it will be IVF.

For a long time, neither of us wanted to be parents, and I don't think necessarily even trusted ourselves to be parents.  Between the two of us, we were on the receiving end of: religious abuse*, financial abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse, emotional incest...basically, everything but substance abuse.  Needless to say, our lives as individuals and as a couple have been quite challenging. We have both cut off one parent and are barely in contact with the other, and things with siblings are...a little awkward?  But as we've both been healing and building up what was systemically thwarted and stolen from us by our "caregivers", we are both feeling like not only can we do this, but it seems increasingly weird not to.

We'll see how things go, and we are prepared for the possibility that it might not work, are ok with that, and won't take heroic measures. But yeah, we might be taking the leap after all...



*This is why I pretty much stay out of P/R anymore, my enmity for evangelicals/fundamentalists makes it rather easy to boil over in any discussion, so I just stay out

Good on you man!  I'm 41 and my wife is 39 and we just had our last about 6 months ago, so I don't think you're too late to the party .  Being a parent can be extremely rewarding.  And considering what you and your wife have been through, I think you made a wise choice to wait.

There will be plenty of tough parts and being a parent is hard work, but you have a TON of happy times to look forward to.

[Northern Lion]

We were only together for 2 years before getting married (and only living together for 13 months before marriage), and then less than a year and a half before kids

We met, a year later were engaged, a year later were married and (10) months later had our first son. We did not live together until we were married.

Same here.  My wife and I didn't live together before we were married and we had our first child 10 months later 

We were engaged 2 months after we met and married 3 months after that.  We were both very impatient if you know what I mean.

[jingle.boy]

I could not imagine having a newborn after the age of forty. They'll just be graduating high school as you approach 60. Not for me.  I'm 48; jingle.kids are 19. This suits me just fine.

But as others said, good in ya for putting as much thought and consideration into it as you have.

[Cool Chris]

Chad, you and I discussed this a bit offline. I had a bit of a misguided (to put it mildly) 20s, and didn't meet my wife till we were 30. Any earlier, I never would have given her a second date considering how shallow I was, and I doubt she would have wanted one). Married at 33, had our first daughter at 35, and tried for another but were unsuccessful until we had passed 40. Life happens the way it wants to sometimes.

[jingle.boy]

Chad, you and I discussed this a bit offline. I had a bit of a misguided (to put it mildly) 20s, and didn't meet my wife till we were 30. Any earlier, I never would have given her a second date considering how shallow I was, and I doubt she would have wanted one). Married at 33, had our first daughter at 35, and tried for another but were unsuccessful until we had passed 40. Life happens the way it wants to sometimes.

Totally!  And I don't begrudge or judge anyone for whatever their situations.  And I fully believe that part of my perspective is from actually having A) twins, and B) having them in my late 20s.  The way that life happened to mrs.jingle and I very much shapes my comments.

[Stadler]

Chad, you and I discussed this a bit offline. I had a bit of a misguided (to put it mildly) 20s, and didn't meet my wife till we were 30. Any earlier, I never would have given her a second date considering how shallow I was, and I doubt she would have wanted one). Married at 33, had our first daughter at 35, and tried for another but were unsuccessful until we had passed 40. Life happens the way it wants to sometimes.

Sometimes?  Most of the time, if you ask me.  I have no ink, but I think if I did go get a tattoo, it would probably say "Man plans, and God laughs".   

[lordxizor]

"Man plans, and God laughs".   

It's amazing that I still forget this after a lifetime of plans shot to hell. I still plan things (big and small), only to have the plans fall apart in seconds and realize they were never realistic to begin with. And yet I still can get really pissed or disappointed about it. You'd think I'd have figured out by now to stop planning things so much and to stop getting so bummed when things don't work out as planned.

[TAC]

Here's how having kids changed me. .
I was so worry free in my life. Not careless or anything, but I never worried about anything and nothing really affected me.

Now, all I do is worry. If I knew how much I would, I might have skipped it. The other thing is that I simply cannot stomach any show that has a plotline built around a kidnapping or a child murder. I'll simply turn it off. I used to be able to read stories in the paper about stuff, and now, I can't even look at it.

[Stadler]

Here's how having kids changed me. .
I was so worry free in my life. Not careless or anything, but I never worried about anything and nothing really affected me.

Now, all I do is worry. If I knew how much I would, I might have skipped it. The other thing is that I simply cannot stomach any show that has a plotline built around a kidnapping or a child murder. I'll simply turn it off. I used to be able to read stories in the paper about stuff, and now, I can't even look at it.

I'm with you on the worry, but while I don't have a problem with the scripted TV shows, it's the local news that is hard to watch.  When I hear stories like that Natalie Holloway girl from Alabama, it sends me into the kitchen looking for the wine.   

I can't speak for anyone else, but kids have a profound way of making you feel helpless.

[Cool Chris]

I can't speak for anyone else, but kids have a profound way of making you feel helpless.

Damn no kidding. At one of the early ultrasounds for my second kid, they found one of the kidneys was abnormally large. "So, what does that mean?" we asked the tech doing the ultrasound. "You'll have to discuss that with the doctor. Oh and he left for the day."

So.... we spent half the night looking up "enlarged fetal kidney" online, worrying about something we couldn't understand, couldn't prepare for, and couldn't do a damn thing about.

[jingle.boy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but kids have a profound way of making you feel helpless.

Damn no kidding. At one of the early ultrasounds for my second kid, they found one of the kidneys was abnormally large. "So, what does that mean?" we asked the tech doing the ultrasound. "You'll have to discuss that with the doctor. Oh and he left for the day."

So.... we spent half the night looking up "enlarged fetal kidney" online, worrying about something we couldn't understand, couldn't prepare for, and couldn't do a damn thing about.

Yikes.... is it safe to assume it was either much-ado-about-nothing, or everything got resolved?  Based on the recent SS vid, your kids are both 10lbs of adorable in a 5lb bucket.

[lordxizor]

Medical searches on the internet are never a good way to keep your anxiety in check.

[jingle.boy]

Medical searches on the internet are never a good way to keep your anxiety in check.

Truer words were never written.

[Cool Chris]

One kidney had a bunch of cysts on it. It isn't terribly uncommon, and what usually happens is 1) that kidney eventually shrivels up and goes away, 2) the other kidney compensates, and 3) the person goes on to live a happy, healthy life. So far we are on track for all three. The biggest potential problem they monitor is the good one could grow too big to compensate and the organs get overcrowded.

Medical searches on the internet are never a good way to keep your anxiety in check.

My mom has been a nurse for 40+ years. Trust me, I've gotten this lecture more times than I can count. She spent a lot of time in labor & delivery so had a basic understanding of the issue and was able to assure us this problem was rarely life-threatening. My wife had already had a miscarriage and we had gone through fertility treatments (this pregnancy was not a result of any treatment), so the fear of an unhealthy fetus was heightened.

[Northern Lion]

I could not imagine having a newborn after the age of forty. They'll just be graduating high school as you approach 60. Not for me.  I'm 48; jingle.kids are 19. This suits me just fine.

But as others said, good in ya for putting as much thought and consideration into it as you have.

Chad, you and I discussed this a bit offline. I had a bit of a misguided (to put it mildly) 20s, and didn't meet my wife till we were 30. Any earlier, I never would have given her a second date considering how shallow I was, and I doubt she would have wanted one). Married at 33, had our first daughter at 35, and tried for another but were unsuccessful until we had passed 40. Life happens the way it wants to sometimes.

"Man plans, and God laughs".   

When my wife and I got married, we both wanted a big family, but we never intended to have children this late in our lives.  We had our first 3 pretty close together, then there was a 4 year break for reasons only God knows because it certainly wasn't due to a lack of trying .  Then we had 2 more close together, and then another 5 year break for some unknown reason.  Then we had our last 2 fairly close together.

If we had had it our way we would have been finished with our family 5-7 years ago.  But at least they should all be gone before I retire.  Hopefully.

[Northern Lion]

One kidney had a bunch of cysts on it. It isn't terribly uncommon, and what usually happens is 1) that kidney eventually shrivels up and goes away, 2) the other kidney compensates, and 3) the person goes on to live a happy, healthy life. So far we are on track for all three. The biggest potential problem they monitor is the good one could grow too big to compensate and the organs get overcrowded.

Medical searches on the internet are never a good way to keep your anxiety in check.

My mom has been a nurse for 40+ years. Trust me, I've gotten this lecture more times than I can count. She spent a lot of time in labor & delivery so had a basic understanding of the issue and was able to assure us this problem was rarely life-threatening. My wife had already had a miscarriage and we had gone through fertility treatments (this pregnancy was not a result of any treatment), so the fear of an unhealthy fetus was heightened.

Well I really hope your new little one ends up being happy and healthy.  That would be very scary to go through, and I'm really glad things so far are going OK.

[lordxizor]

Hoping to get your opinions on a marital thing that I'm not sure if I should talk to my wife about.

We have an annual New Years' Eve party at my sister's with my siblings, their spouses, and kids. The kids go to be early and the adults stay up playing games and drinking and eating.

The issue is that my wife always drinks more than I think she should. Last year she ended up hung over, so we couldn't leave my sister's place for a few hours after I would have because she had to recover. I was horribly embarrassed and pissed at her (no one else drank nearly as much as she did). So this year I told her that couldn't happen again and she understood and agreed. She didn't drink enough to be badly hung over, but did drink more than I would have liked. I hadn't glared at her when she grabbed another bottle of wine to open, she likely would have had more and ended up like last year. She has trouble controlling her drinking in social situations and had issues with it before she essentially turned her life around the year before we met and stopped having a social life that revolved around drinking.

The main issue for me is that I find her obnoxious when she's drunk. I don't enjoy being around her at all. There are lots of reasons for this, some of which are my issue and not hers, but it is what it is. This is the only time of the year that she drinks like this, so it's not a frequent issue.

I don't want to go to this party next year if she's going to drink so much. I enjoy the party until she gets annoying and then I pretty much hate the rest and am pissed off at her in the morning. I want to talk to her about why I find her so annoying when she's drunk and ask her to control herself better. I think it would be easy enough for her to just not do or say a few things and make her more tolerable, though I'm not sure in the moment she'll be able to contain herself.

I feel like I have a few options:
1) Say nothing, let her enjoy herself while I'm silently seething, and acknowledge that one night out of the year I'm going to dislike being around my wife. (This option would be more tolerable to me if it were her friends and family that threw the party instead of mine)
2) Talk to her now since it's a recent thing.
3) Talk to her when we get the invite next year.

Thoughts?

[cramx3]

hmmm I'm not sure, but my x was also really annoying when drunk and made me not want to be around her.  She was not a fun drunk IMO, in fact, an angry drunk.  No matter how many times I told her, she didn't change.  In that case, it is what it is and that relationship didn't work out.  Part of me says, if it's one night a year, maybe you should just let her do it.  While it's your family not hers, that may be what helps her in that situation.  I know I have social anxiety a lot of times when I was with my SO's family and sometimes boozing would really help but I'd usually be self aware to not make myself look bad in front of their families.  I guess a good question is, does this effect anyone else besides you?  Like does your family notice and have something to say about it?  When she's acting this way, can you just leave her with your sisters or something for example, like you just step away so the things shes doing that bother you are done to others who maybe aren't so bothered by it?  Either way, a talk seems like something you should do but maybe depending on how bad others in the room see this, maybe you can let it slide one night of the year. 

My brother's GF gets overly drunk at all our family get togethers.  Sometimes to the point of puking, passing out early, or starting fights in front of everyone with my brother.  It's noticeable and my family has been bothered by it and it happens multiple times a year.  I am mostly in dislike of her in general because of her consistent behavior around my family.  If it were more rare, I don't think I'd care so much.

[lordxizor]

I doubt anyone else cares much, other than that she has a tendency to monopolize the conversation and talk really loud, but no one has ever said anything to me about her. We all hang out together, so it's not really like I can separate myself from her. What bugs me most is her tendency to tell stories and reminisce about her college years when her social life revolves around binge drinking. None of us were there. None of us can relate. I certainly don't like hearing about the days when she was a completely different person from the woman I married and someone wholly incompatible with my beliefs and her current beliefs.

[cramx3]

Yea, sounds like maybe you should talk about that specifically then. 

[lordxizor]

Yeah, just debating when and how really. I want to tell her next year I'm taking a shot for every time she mentions the year she spent in Hawaii or other stories about her drinking days. I'd pass out by 10.

[Lonk]

Two questions:

1) Does she gets along well with your family?
2) Is that the only time she spends time with them during the year?

[lordxizor]

Yes, she gets along well with them. We spend tons of time with them throughout the year.

[Stadler]

I feel like I have a few options:
1) Say nothing, let her enjoy herself while I'm silently seething, and acknowledge that one night out of the year I'm going to dislike being around my wife. (This option would be more tolerable to me if it were her friends and family that threw the party instead of mine)
2) Talk to her now since it's a recent thing.
3) Talk to her when we get the invite next year.

Thoughts?

I'm just asking - to stimulate conversation, not accuse - but why do none of your options involve YOU changing?   She's presumably a big girl.  Assuming she's not driving, abusing anyone around her, or otherwise invading someone's fundamental space, why is the onus on her to change, or you to suffer?   

I was married to someone very much like that, albeit not limited to the "one night a year", and as a general proposition, her drinking was a problem, but one of several.  I spent a couple years trying - in vain - to manage her drinking (time and place, company, etc.) and ultimately had to pretty much realize I could not control her drinking.  I could accept it for what it was, or if it became a problem for me (or threat to me or my child) I had to take other options.  I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't talk to her about things, but unless there's more to the story, telling college stories doesn't seem to be an unforgivable offense (says the guy who gets together with his college buddies fairly regularly to tell college stories.

[lordxizor]

Option one is essentially me sucking it up and dealing with it. Which I am certainly capable of doing. I don't know how to make myself not be annoyed by her in those situations though.

if we were hanging out with her college buddies, I would absolutely expect her to talk about those days. It's just strange to me that she talks about it so much around people who didn't know her then and weren't part of the story.

[Stadler]

I would defer to someone like Adami, but I don't know that it's unheard of to learn to adapt to your circumstances.  People learn to manage their anger, to adopt coping mechanisms, every single day. 

I'm not suggesting this is all on you, and I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I know that I tend to be a story-teller.  I don't mean "story" as in fiction, but in terms of creating (or trying to create) connections with past events and experiences.  I don't know that I need to reserve my stories to only those people that shared them with me.   Just the opposite; it's fun to share and then hear about others' similar (or different!) experiences and go from there. 

And of course, I acknowledge that I'm not there and can't fairly assess.  I'm just responding to what you wrote.  Respectfully (I hope).