Author Topic: Parenting/marital advice  (Read 4576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 20459
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #140 on: December 19, 2018, 09:22:52 AM »
That is pretty impressive

Offline MoraWintersoul

  • Gloom Cookie
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5391
  • Gender: Female
  • Transadriatic progressive buddy of Wasteland
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2018, 05:02:31 AM »
One of the biggest mistakes I see parents making is not limiting their own screen time when they try to limit their children's, and not reading/having creative hobbies/going to the gym but trying to make their kids pick these habits up. "Don't do as I do, do as I say" has never worked on anyone. Of course, you can do everything right and still get screen-addicted kids, which is why I'm kinda terrified of the trajectory of this crazy boat we're on.

I'm terrified of a lot of things tbh. I have a major case of (like Jenna Marbles would say) the too-much gene, I want everything, right now, and I get stupidly angry about not having that, due to the nature of life. The only reason why I'm a person who acts reasonable is because I grew up poor in a small place with two siblings to share things and experiences with. There's no way I can simulate these conditions and frankly no one would want that.

So I also worry about my potential future kids being spoiled. I worry about what to tell them about being bullied because I was bullied for literally 8 years non stop in elementary school - as soon as one bully would get bored with my lack of response, another one or two would pick up the slack. I was like a beacon and my signal was THIS PERSON IS RIPE TO BE PICKED ON. I even got picked on by unfamiliar kids from other classes, without saying a word to them or even looking in their direction. I have nothing to say except "it gets better... if you're lucky enough to go to a decent high school".

I can offer a lot of good advice and I'm a good role model in a lot of other areas, but in some I'm just... tragically lacking.

Quote
Don't try to BS Milena about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.
You consistently make so much sense, and express yourself so eloquently, that I've decided you're basically a female version of robwebster.

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12532
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #142 on: December 21, 2018, 06:40:19 AM »
One of the biggest mistakes I see parents making is not limiting their own screen time when they try to limit their children's, and not reading/having creative hobbies/going to the gym but trying to make their kids pick these habits up. "Don't do as I do, do as I say" has never worked on anyone. Of course, you can do everything right and still get screen-addicted kids, which is why I'm kinda terrified of the trajectory of this crazy boat we're on.

I'm terrified of a lot of things tbh. I have a major case of (like Jenna Marbles would say) the too-much gene, I want everything, right now, and I get stupidly angry about not having that, due to the nature of life. The only reason why I'm a person who acts reasonable is because I grew up poor in a small place with two siblings to share things and experiences with. There's no way I can simulate these conditions and frankly no one would want that.

So I also worry about my potential future kids being spoiled. I worry about what to tell them about being bullied because I was bullied for literally 8 years non stop in elementary school - as soon as one bully would get bored with my lack of response, another one or two would pick up the slack. I was like a beacon and my signal was THIS PERSON IS RIPE TO BE PICKED ON. I even got picked on by unfamiliar kids from other classes, without saying a word to them or even looking in their direction. I have nothing to say except "it gets better... if you're lucky enough to go to a decent high school".

I can offer a lot of good advice and I'm a good role model in a lot of other areas, but in some I'm just... tragically lacking.

From your brief description/post I can see that we have a bit in common. From the conditions we were raised in to the bullying. Anytime my wife learns another detail from my childhood she asks/says to me something along the lines of ďitís amazing that youíve ended up the person you areĒ.  NOT that Iím an amazing person  :lol   FAR from that. But that given some of the circumstances from my childhood thereís plenty of excuses there for me to have been a major F up and issue for society. Iíve basically structured my life and decisions doing the exact opposite of everything I saw growing up.

The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

Your point about parents needing to lead by example hits home. Thatís a major issue that my wife and I are trying to tackle head on. Itís freaking tough. Iíll admit that I turn to my phone entirely too often and am trying to break the Ďhabití of just flipping through the phone. The 6:00 rule we have helps....but there are still times where thereís really no reason for me to be looking at my phone yet I find myself doing it.

I know Ďentitlementí is a buzzword that can start a massive debate but it seems to me thatís the word that can best describe the purveying attitude if the kids in our society. The instant gratification and the want/now is pretty bad....BUT....thatís no oneís fault but the parents. I know as a parent you Ďwantí your kid to have everything and you want them to be able to do all sorts of cool things. But, you know....its good for kids to be Ďboredí sometimes. It forces them to get creative to pass time and break from their habits and forces them to improvise life a bit.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline Phoenix87x

  • From the ashes
  • Posts: 6111
  • The Phoenix shall rise
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2019, 07:11:20 AM »
Here goes a breaking story. Child has temper tantrum, will not listen. So dad just drags her by the hood of her coat to where they need to go

http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dont-miss/dad-dragging-daughter-through-airport-by-hood-goes-viral

I don't have kids, but I was always told that if they throw themselves on the floor and start a tantrum and refuse to come with you, then you just say "ok bye" and start walking away. (basically not playing their game)

Does anyone have experience with that trick? Did it work? How did you guys deal with temper tantrums? What did you find to be most effective and least effective?

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 2526
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2019, 07:30:37 AM »
One of the biggest mistakes I see parents making is not limiting their own screen time when they try to limit their children's, and not reading/having creative hobbies/going to the gym but trying to make their kids pick these habits up. "Don't do as I do, do as I say" has never worked on anyone. Of course, you can do everything right and still get screen-addicted kids, which is why I'm kinda terrified of the trajectory of this crazy boat we're on.

I'm terrified of a lot of things tbh. I have a major case of (like Jenna Marbles would say) the too-much gene, I want everything, right now, and I get stupidly angry about not having that, due to the nature of life. The only reason why I'm a person who acts reasonable is because I grew up poor in a small place with two siblings to share things and experiences with. There's no way I can simulate these conditions and frankly no one would want that.

So I also worry about my potential future kids being spoiled. I worry about what to tell them about being bullied because I was bullied for literally 8 years non stop in elementary school - as soon as one bully would get bored with my lack of response, another one or two would pick up the slack. I was like a beacon and my signal was THIS PERSON IS RIPE TO BE PICKED ON. I even got picked on by unfamiliar kids from other classes, without saying a word to them or even looking in their direction. I have nothing to say except "it gets better... if you're lucky enough to go to a decent high school".

I can offer a lot of good advice and I'm a good role model in a lot of other areas, but in some I'm just... tragically lacking.

From your brief description/post I can see that we have a bit in common. From the conditions we were raised in to the bullying. Anytime my wife learns another detail from my childhood she asks/says to me something along the lines of ďitís amazing that youíve ended up the person you areĒ.  NOT that Iím an amazing person  :lol   FAR from that. But that given some of the circumstances from my childhood thereís plenty of excuses there for me to have been a major F up and issue for society. Iíve basically structured my life and decisions doing the exact opposite of everything I saw growing up.

The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

Your point about parents needing to lead by example hits home. Thatís a major issue that my wife and I are trying to tackle head on. Itís freaking tough. Iíll admit that I turn to my phone entirely too often and am trying to break the Ďhabití of just flipping through the phone. The 6:00 rule we have helps....but there are still times where thereís really no reason for me to be looking at my phone yet I find myself doing it.

I know Ďentitlementí is a buzzword that can start a massive debate but it seems to me thatís the word that can best describe the purveying attitude if the kids in our society. The instant gratification and the want/now is pretty bad....BUT....thatís no oneís fault but the parents. I know as a parent you Ďwantí your kid to have everything and you want them to be able to do all sorts of cool things. But, you know....its good for kids to be Ďboredí sometimes. It forces them to get creative to pass time and break from their habits and forces them to improvise life a bit.

I have a hard time with the phone as well. I've resulted in just leaving it up in my room. Out of site, out of mind.

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 26565
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2019, 07:40:03 AM »
I'd ignore them.  If we were in public, I could give a rats ass about what other people thought.  NEVER NEVER NEVER concede and reward bad behaviour.  Kids aren't stupid, they learn quick - that either they'll get what they want, or they won't.  I don't remember any horrible situations with jingle.kids, but I know we NEVER gave in to any antics.

I've posted this before, but this guy is my hero in this regard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBi9jaOFcRU

Patience.... less than 5 minutes for this kid to go from wailing to giggles.  Now, some kids got more willpower and lung power than this one, but as grown-assed adults, a parent's willpower needs to be stronger than that of their kids.
I think Jingle is right as rain
warflwwcesfw.
That's meme-speak for "We are really f*****g lazy when we can't eve say full words".

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20811
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2019, 07:43:01 AM »
The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

My bullying sucked as kid. I went to a catholic school and was with the same, small group of 18 kids for 9 years. I was the only fat kid in class, was socially awkward, and was a very easy target. I tried to defend myself once and got the shit kicked out of me and choked on the ground in front of everyone. It fucked with me really bad. I stopped trying to be friends with others and just found it easier to be alone and commented on from afar rather than trying to insert myself into groups only to get constantly ripped on. That followed me through high school, where the bullying persisted, but in a slightly different form. It was less direct name calling and more physiological.  At gym I'd always get picked for the skins team in basketball so I had to take my shirt off and stuff like that. I hated it.   

As ass backwards as this sounds, and for as many problems that alcohol created for me in college, boozing up was the only thing that allowed me to get out of that mindset. For the first time in life I was able to comfortably try and socialize and work my way into new groups of people.

I'm not saying this applies to you, and I get "kids will be kids", but being constantly bullied as a kid can mess people up a lot more than I think most people realize, especially those who weren't bullied much. It made me not want to go to school, it made me not want to be around others, it trained me to think there was something inherently wrong with the way I was, it made me hate myself, it made me jealous, it made me angry, and it really inhibited by ability to form relationships with other humans.

I'm just thankful camera phones and Twitter weren't a thing back then.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 07:56:57 AM by Chino »

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12532
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2019, 07:53:58 AM »
The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

My bullying sucked as kid. I went to a catholic school and was with the same, small group of 18 kids for 9 years. I was the only fat kid in class, was socially awkward, and was a very easy target. I tried to defend myself once and got the shit kicked out of me and choked on the ground in front of everyone. It fucked with me really bad. I stopped trying to be friends with others and just found it easier to be alone and commented on from afar rather than trying to insert myself into groups only to get constantly ripped on. That followed me through high school, where the bullying persisted, but in a slightly different form. It was less direct name calling and more physiological.  At gym the I'd always get picked for the skins team in basketball so I had to take my shirt off and stuff like that. I hated it.   

As ass backwards as this sounds, and for as many problems that alcohol created for me in college, boozing up was the only thing that allowed me to get out of that mindset. For the first time in life I was able to comfortably try and socialize and work my way into new groups of people.

I'm not saying this applies to you, and I get "kids will be kids", but being constantly bullied as a kid can mess people up a lot more than I think most people realize, especially those who weren't bullied much. It made me not want to go to school, it made me not want to be around others, it trained me to think there was something inherently wrong with the way I was, it made me hate myself, it made me jealous, it made me angry, and it really inhibited by ability to form relationships with other humans.

Completely agree about how detrimental bullying can be. And, your situation of being in a private school with a small class of the same kids is one of the handful of factors that we considered when we took our boys out of private school. Once your 'position' is established in a group like that there really isn't a whole lot you can do to get out of it.

I 'overcame' my bullying by basically becoming 'Chandlar' from FRIENDS. I used 'being funny' and a lot of self deprecating humor along with never turning down a dare to work my way into some sort of social standing with the 'cool' kids. Dying on the inside and remained desperate for 'their' approval.....such a messed up way to grow up. Totally get the alcohol use as well. I started drinking in 8th grade with a couple buddies and although I didn't consciously know it at the time but used it as a way to 'deal' with the issues I had from being bullied. I've shared this here before...but I was also a victim of sexual molestation at the hands of an older male cousin when I was 9....right in the thick of elementary bullying for being under 4 foot tall.....so, all that led me to really find solace in drinking and later in my early 20's heavy pot use.

Like I mentioned....at this point I'm glad to have gone through it if it allows me to be able to help my sons with anything they're going to face. I'd do it all again plus more if it'll guarantee me that I'd have the advice and support and the 'answers' for them in their time of need. 
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20811
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2019, 07:59:43 AM »
The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

My bullying sucked as kid. I went to a catholic school and was with the same, small group of 18 kids for 9 years. I was the only fat kid in class, was socially awkward, and was a very easy target. I tried to defend myself once and got the shit kicked out of me and choked on the ground in front of everyone. It fucked with me really bad. I stopped trying to be friends with others and just found it easier to be alone and commented on from afar rather than trying to insert myself into groups only to get constantly ripped on. That followed me through high school, where the bullying persisted, but in a slightly different form. It was less direct name calling and more physiological.  At gym the I'd always get picked for the skins team in basketball so I had to take my shirt off and stuff like that. I hated it.   

As ass backwards as this sounds, and for as many problems that alcohol created for me in college, boozing up was the only thing that allowed me to get out of that mindset. For the first time in life I was able to comfortably try and socialize and work my way into new groups of people.

I'm not saying this applies to you, and I get "kids will be kids", but being constantly bullied as a kid can mess people up a lot more than I think most people realize, especially those who weren't bullied much. It made me not want to go to school, it made me not want to be around others, it trained me to think there was something inherently wrong with the way I was, it made me hate myself, it made me jealous, it made me angry, and it really inhibited by ability to form relationships with other humans.

Completely agree about how detrimental bullying can be. And, your situation of being in a private school with a small class of the same kids is one of the handful of factors that we considered when we took our boys out of private school. Once your 'position' is established in a group like that there really isn't a whole lot you can do to get out of it.

I 'overcame' my bullying by basically becoming 'Chandlar' from FRIENDS. I used 'being funny' and a lot of self deprecating humor along with never turning down a dare to work my way into some sort of social standing with the 'cool' kids. Dying on the inside and remained desperate for 'their' approval.....such a messed up way to grow up. Totally get the alcohol use as well. I started drinking in 8th grade with a couple buddies and although I didn't consciously know it at the time but used it as a way to 'deal' with the issues I had from being bullied. I've shared this here before...but I was also a victim of sexual molestation at the hands of an older male cousin when I was 9....right in the thick of elementary bullying for being under 4 foot tall.....so, all that led me to really find solace in drinking and later in my early 20's heavy pot use.

Like I mentioned....at this point I'm glad to have gone through it if it allows me to be able to help my sons with anything they're going to face. I'd do it all again plus more if it'll guarantee me that I'd have the advice and support and the 'answers' for them in their time of need.

Yeah, the tiny class size was without question the worst component. At least in high school I had different classes with different people on different days. Prior to that, it was the same 18 in the same room, day in and day out. There was no escaping it. There was no library to go to during free period. It was constant and never ending. Like you said, once your position is established, it's tough to change it. In 6th grade you aren't suddenly going to be seen differently than you were in grades K-5, and it's not like any new options come along. You kind of get locked in.

Online Kwyjibo

  • Worse troll than Blabbermouth
  • Posts: 3932
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2019, 08:11:18 AM »
I'd ignore them.  If we were in public, I could give a rats ass about what other people thought.  NEVER NEVER NEVER concede and reward bad behaviour.  Kids aren't stupid, they learn quick - that either they'll get what they want, or they won't.  I don't remember any horrible situations with jingle.kids, but I know we NEVER gave in to any antics.

This and double this.

My brother in law has a son who is now 6 years old. He always starts a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants. And my brother in law and his wife always give in to him because they don't want to cope with his tantrums. And he knows it, he's a clever little brat. He uses this to always get his way. And the parents despair, because they don't know how to educate him. But they won't listen to my wife and me when we point out where the problem lies. And now they have a girl who's turned two recently, and she's learning very quick from her brother.  >:(

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20811
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2019, 08:17:14 AM »
I remember reading an interesting write up a few years back about why it's so hard for parents to not give in, and it seems like genetics and instinctive wiring plays a large role. It wasn't until fairly recently (a few decades) that a children would throw a tantrum for something that wasn't a necessity. Kids today scream because they want the toy, or the candy bar in the store, or whatever, but for the rest of human evolution, a kid threw a tantrum because they were hungry, they were cold, they were thirsty, they hurt, etc... It was in the parents best interest to tend to the child as quickly as possible because screams are a really good way to let a cougar know your position. We still carry that wiring today.   

Not saying that's an excuse.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 28031
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2019, 08:32:52 AM »
I remember reading an interesting write up a few years back about why it's so hard for parents to not give in, and it seems like genetics and instinctive wiring plays a large role. It wasn't until fairly recently (a few decades) that a children would throw a tantrum for something that wasn't a necessity. Kids today scream because they want the toy, or the candy bar in the store, or whatever, but for the rest of human evolution, a kid threw a tantrum because they were hungry, they were cold, they were thirsty, they hurt, etc... It was in the parents best interest to tend to the child as quickly as possible because screams are a really good way to let a cougar know your position. We still carry that wiring today.   

Not saying that's an excuse.

You're right. Kids throw a tantrum for a healthy reason. Before they have the ability to ask for things, it's often the only way to get basic needs met. Humans find the act so annoying and distressing that we give in and meet their needs. It's a good arrangement in that sense. The problem is when the behavior carries over when it is no longer adaptive. A child throwing a tantrum because they did not get what they asked for is not helpful. A child throwing a tantrum because they are not getting an actual need met, is something that still needs to be attended to. So if it's for a candy bar or a toy or something, ignore it. If your child is EXTREMELY tired or very hungry and really needs those things, give it to them. It can't be 100% black and white where we ignore the child anytime they need something more intensely, but also we can't promote the behavior as a means of getting what they want whenever.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20811
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2019, 08:35:40 AM »
I remember reading an interesting write up a few years back about why it's so hard for parents to not give in, and it seems like genetics and instinctive wiring plays a large role. It wasn't until fairly recently (a few decades) that a children would throw a tantrum for something that wasn't a necessity. Kids today scream because they want the toy, or the candy bar in the store, or whatever, but for the rest of human evolution, a kid threw a tantrum because they were hungry, they were cold, they were thirsty, they hurt, etc... It was in the parents best interest to tend to the child as quickly as possible because screams are a really good way to let a cougar know your position. We still carry that wiring today.   

Not saying that's an excuse.

You're right. Kids throw a tantrum for a healthy reason. Before they have the ability to ask for things, it's often the only way to get basic needs met. Humans find the act so annoying and distressing that we give in and meet their needs. It's a good arrangement in that sense. The problem is when the behavior carries over when it is no longer adaptive. A child throwing a tantrum because they did not get what they asked for is not helpful. A child throwing a tantrum because they are not getting an actual need met, is something that still needs to be attended to. So if it's for a candy bar or a toy or something, ignore it. If your child is EXTREMELY tired or very hungry and really needs those things, give it to them. It can't be 100% black and white where we ignore the child anytime they need something more intensely, but also we can't promote the behavior as a means of getting what they want whenever.

Right, I'm just pointing out that it wasn't until recently that children had anything to throw a tantrum over that wasn't a necessity, and as such, it hasn't been until recently that parents have had to start differentiating between types of tantrums.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 28031
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2019, 08:36:47 AM »
Oh yea, wasn't disagreeing with you. Just expanding on certain things.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Online Kwyjibo

  • Worse troll than Blabbermouth
  • Posts: 3932
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2019, 08:41:20 AM »
Normally as a parent you see if your kids have a real need or if they just want to get their way.

When my kids are hungry they get food. When they only want chocolate "because they are hungry", then maybe not.

That doesn't mean that you always say no, there are times when chocolate is okay. But you just can't give in to every drama your kids start.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 28031
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2019, 08:43:56 AM »
Normally as a parent you see if your kids have a real need or if they just want to get their way.

When my kids are hungry they get food. When they only want chocolate "because they are hungry", then maybe not.

That doesn't mean that you always say no, there are times when chocolate is okay. But you just can't give in to every drama your kids start.

They will get nothing and like it!
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Grappler

  • Posts: 1116
  • Gender: Male
  • Victory, Illinois Varsity
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2019, 09:50:24 AM »
I've only picked up my daughter and carried her out of a public place once due to a tantrum.  I put her over my shoulder and let her cry and scream while we walked out.  I wouldn't ever drag her by her clothes like that video (in fact, my daughter would find that to be a lot of fun), but I certainly would hold her hand/arm and lead her out as well. 

When we're at home, I might ignore a tantrum or guide my kids into better behavior to achieve what they want (ask the right way or eat item A before you're allowed to have item B).  But when we're in public, tantrums aren't acceptable and we will just pick up and leave and go home, rather than ignore their behavior and annoy everyone else around us by letting the kids cry and scream.  If the kid is resisting going home, well then they're going to lose when I just pick them up and carry them out. 

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 15580
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2019, 10:24:49 AM »
The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

My bullying sucked as kid. I went to a catholic school and was with the same, small group of 18 kids for 9 years. I was the only fat kid in class, was socially awkward, and was a very easy target. I tried to defend myself once and got the shit kicked out of me and choked on the ground in front of everyone. It fucked with me really bad. I stopped trying to be friends with others and just found it easier to be alone and commented on from afar rather than trying to insert myself into groups only to get constantly ripped on. That followed me through high school, where the bullying persisted, but in a slightly different form. It was less direct name calling and more physiological.  At gym I'd always get picked for the skins team in basketball so I had to take my shirt off and stuff like that. I hated it.   

As ass backwards as this sounds, and for as many problems that alcohol created for me in college, boozing up was the only thing that allowed me to get out of that mindset. For the first time in life I was able to comfortably try and socialize and work my way into new groups of people.

I'm not saying this applies to you, and I get "kids will be kids", but being constantly bullied as a kid can mess people up a lot more than I think most people realize, especially those who weren't bullied much. It made me not want to go to school, it made me not want to be around others, it trained me to think there was something inherently wrong with the way I was, it made me hate myself, it made me jealous, it made me angry, and it really inhibited by ability to form relationships with other humans.

I'm just thankful camera phones and Twitter weren't a thing back then.

Is it insensitive or uncaring to suggest there's bullying, and there's "bullying"?  I sort of think that - based on how you describe it - that's bullying.  I was short and skinny up into high school, and while I played sports (and was good at them) I was also in the "brain" classes, so rather than be "in" two groups, I was "out" of two groups.   So I got made fun of, and left out, and everyone always said that "Ann Lazer (she was also short) and I would have to marry and we'd have midget kids" (funny enough, she turned out to be HOT, oh well) but while it made me tougher in the long run, I don't have any of the experience that you did, and so I hesitate to even call it bullying.  It's more "bullying".   Is there a legit difference?   

I ask this because I have two kids still in school, and a third that just graduated a year or so ago.  The oldest of those was hardcore bullied, to the point she missed half her senior year of high school, and but for the fact that her school sucked, and needed the "numbers", she likely wouldn't have graduated.   The other two are more akin to Gary and I.   And I struggle with that; what's the difference, if any?  Should I be doing anything different?   What about the "anti-bullying culture"?  Do I now HAVE to act on behalf of my other daughter and step son, for fear they'll see the stories and think, "Dad, where the f--- were you??"  I suppose it's a matter of degrees, but some of what I see as "bullying" is hard to accept as such, but then I hear stories like yours, Chino, and my step daughter (yes, we did a lot, including involving the police), and realize it's a real thing.   

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20811
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #158 on: January 10, 2019, 11:01:41 AM »
The bullying was just something that came along with being a very short kid. I was just a tiny kid that was a magnet for the Ďbigí kids to pick on. Looking back on it sure it sucked but it made me pretty tough because I was in a fight or wrestling match at least once a week for pretty much the duration of my elementary schooling. But Iíve used that experience to help with raising my own kids so Iím actually thankful for it.

My bullying sucked as kid. I went to a catholic school and was with the same, small group of 18 kids for 9 years. I was the only fat kid in class, was socially awkward, and was a very easy target. I tried to defend myself once and got the shit kicked out of me and choked on the ground in front of everyone. It fucked with me really bad. I stopped trying to be friends with others and just found it easier to be alone and commented on from afar rather than trying to insert myself into groups only to get constantly ripped on. That followed me through high school, where the bullying persisted, but in a slightly different form. It was less direct name calling and more physiological.  At gym I'd always get picked for the skins team in basketball so I had to take my shirt off and stuff like that. I hated it.   

As ass backwards as this sounds, and for as many problems that alcohol created for me in college, boozing up was the only thing that allowed me to get out of that mindset. For the first time in life I was able to comfortably try and socialize and work my way into new groups of people.

I'm not saying this applies to you, and I get "kids will be kids", but being constantly bullied as a kid can mess people up a lot more than I think most people realize, especially those who weren't bullied much. It made me not want to go to school, it made me not want to be around others, it trained me to think there was something inherently wrong with the way I was, it made me hate myself, it made me jealous, it made me angry, and it really inhibited by ability to form relationships with other humans.

I'm just thankful camera phones and Twitter weren't a thing back then.

Is it insensitive or uncaring to suggest there's bullying, and there's "bullying"?  I sort of think that - based on how you describe it - that's bullying.  I was short and skinny up into high school, and while I played sports (and was good at them) I was also in the "brain" classes, so rather than be "in" two groups, I was "out" of two groups.   So I got made fun of, and left out, and everyone always said that "Ann Lazer (she was also short) and I would have to marry and we'd have midget kids" (funny enough, she turned out to be HOT, oh well) but while it made me tougher in the long run, I don't have any of the experience that you did, and so I hesitate to even call it bullying.  It's more "bullying".   Is there a legit difference?   

I ask this because I have two kids still in school, and a third that just graduated a year or so ago.  The oldest of those was hardcore bullied, to the point she missed half her senior year of high school, and but for the fact that her school sucked, and needed the "numbers", she likely wouldn't have graduated.   The other two are more akin to Gary and I.   And I struggle with that; what's the difference, if any?  Should I be doing anything different?   What about the "anti-bullying culture"?  Do I now HAVE to act on behalf of my other daughter and step son, for fear they'll see the stories and think, "Dad, where the f--- were you??"  I suppose it's a matter of degrees, but some of what I see as "bullying" is hard to accept as such, but then I hear stories like yours, Chino, and my step daughter (yes, we did a lot, including involving the police), and realize it's a real thing.

There are different degrees of bullying for sure, at least I think so. First and foremost, there's the difference between physical and non-physical bullying, but I also think there is a line somewhere that separates teasing from bullying. Kids tease each other all the time, it sucks, but I do think those are the growing pains of childhood (within reason). It's hard to say where the line is though. For me, having other kids wanting to see me take my shirt off in gym glass in front of the girls on the other side of the gym wasn't teasing. That was bullying, the sole intent being to make me miserable. That was the systematic selection of a type of embarrassment for no reason other than to make me feel like shit. Whereas someone calling me fat in front of my classmates could have other motives besides just hurting me. Part of that has to do with the person doing the name calling trying to look cool in front of others, and could maybe be considered more along the lines of teasing given the context.

My seventh grade teacher made a comment to me, literally in front of the entire class, saying something like "I don't know why you're laughing, you're quite the chunker yourself", to which the entire class began roaring with laughter. That's bullying, and coming from a mother of three teaching at a catholic school, was fucking bullshit. I never told my parents about the stuff I had to deal with out of fear they'd contact the school and it would eventually just turn into another thing the bullies could use ("mama's boy", etc).

Now that I'm thinking about your "there's bullying, and there's "bullying" " comment in some depth, I think there is bullying, and then there's straight up harassment. I was harassed as a kid.

Offline jingle.boy

  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 26565
  • Gender: Male
  • The changing of the worrd is inevitabre!!!
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #159 on: January 10, 2019, 03:17:57 PM »
Normally as a parent you see if your kids have a real need or if they just want to get their way.

When my kids are hungry they get food. When they only want chocolate "because they are hungry", then maybe not.

That doesn't mean that you always say no, there are times when chocolate is okay. But you just can't give in to every drama your kids start.

They will get nothing and like it!


I think Jingle is right as rain
warflwwcesfw.
That's meme-speak for "We are really f*****g lazy when we can't eve say full words".

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7121
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #160 on: January 11, 2019, 05:30:34 AM »
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 28031
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #161 on: January 11, 2019, 06:00:18 AM »
They will get nothing and like it.

https://youtu.be/0f6l1QljpMo

Yea, thatís what I......or apparently Jingle......was referencing.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 2526
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #162 on: January 11, 2019, 07:12:32 AM »
As a parent of 2 kids (both girls 6 and almost 3) one of the constant struggles I have is straddling the line between being a hardass and giving in. I 100% believe that the entitlement culture we have going on is not a good thing and I want to try to raise my kids to appreciate the things they have and also learn how to be respectful and to listen and follow directions. I got in an argument with my 6 year old last nigh because she wanted to use a cookie cutter on her sandwich which I said no to. She ended up stealing the sandwich and used the cutter her self. Both of us lost it and start yelling at each other over a sandwich which in hindsight seems ridiculous. But at the time in my mind I was upset because she disobeyed my instructions and I'm sure she was pissed because she didn't get her way. I need to do a better job not emotionally escalating the situation but man that can be hard to do at the end of a long day.

Parenting is hard.

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12532
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #163 on: January 11, 2019, 08:09:47 AM »
But at the time in my mind I was upset because she disobeyed my instructions and I'm sure she was pissed because she didn't get her way. I need to do a better job not emotionally escalating the situation but man that can be hard to do at the end of a long day.

I feel ya man. It's tough....especially because it seems your kids know 'exactly' how to get on your last nerve.

I have a constant struggle with my middle son NOT because he's some horrible kid but because (unfortunately) he's pretty much a replica of me. Not just physically which is pretty close but more mentally/emotionally etc etc.....it's pretty uncanny. My wife thinks it's funny at times and often says "hows it feel arguing with yourself?" He's a good kid but there are times when him and I have been at each other. I think with him especially I've had some of my most 'not proud' moments as a father.....those moments when you really regret how you handled a situation.

Parenting is hard.

It certainly is. I feel for the single parents out there because if I didn't have my wife to lean on and 'trade off' with I'd certainly go insane.....most undoubtedly wouldn't have made it to 10 years sober  :lol
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5338
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #164 on: January 11, 2019, 08:22:26 AM »
I have a constant struggle with my middle son NOT because he's some horrible kid but because (unfortunately) he's pretty much a replica of me. Not just physically which is pretty close but more mentally/emotionally etc etc.....it's pretty uncanny. My wife thinks it's funny at times and often says "hows it feel arguing with yourself?" He's a good kid but there are times when him and I have been at each other. I think with him especially I've had some of my most 'not proud' moments as a father.....those moments when you really regret how you handled a situation.

Dude, this is my 3 1/2 year old daughter and my wife. They are exactly the same, and my wife struggles constantly to deal with basically a mini version of herself. Strong willed, independent, very similar personality ticks, etc... It's a tough thing, but a really cool thing at the same time because we can see so much of my wife in our child.

Offline Tick

  • It's time to make a change
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9517
  • Gender: Male
  • Just another tricky day for you
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #165 on: January 11, 2019, 08:25:16 AM »
Having only one child I don't feel qualified to give council here. My thought is to tell them have each others backs as brothers and stop being dicks.
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12532
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #166 on: January 11, 2019, 08:41:16 AM »
I have a constant struggle with my middle son NOT because he's some horrible kid but because (unfortunately) he's pretty much a replica of me. Not just physically which is pretty close but more mentally/emotionally etc etc.....it's pretty uncanny. My wife thinks it's funny at times and often says "hows it feel arguing with yourself?" He's a good kid but there are times when him and I have been at each other. I think with him especially I've had some of my most 'not proud' moments as a father.....those moments when you really regret how you handled a situation.

Dude, this is my 3 1/2 year old daughter and my wife. They are exactly the same, and my wife struggles constantly to deal with basically a mini version of herself. Strong willed, independent, very similar personality ticks, etc... It's a tough thing, but a really cool thing at the same time because we can see so much of my wife in our child.

Yep. Sounds identical to my situation. Even to the traits you described. 95% of the time it is really neat because we spend a lot of time together doing really cool stuff but man have we had some 'moments' when it comes to discipline.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 2526
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2019, 09:02:05 AM »
Yeah my older daughter is also very much like me. She is very smart for her age and I sometimes forget that she's only 6.

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5338
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #168 on: January 11, 2019, 09:24:03 AM »
Yep. Sounds identical to my situation. Even to the traits you described. 95% of the time it is really neat because we spend a lot of time together doing really cool stuff but man have we had some 'moments' when it comes to discipline.

Yeah my older daughter is also very much like me. She is very smart for her age and I sometimes forget that she's only 6.

I think something else that is tough about it (at least for us) is that you can see your own shortcomings in your kids sometimes. Nothing major for us yet with our daughter being so young, but little things like the way she processes certain emotions. We find ourselves trying to correct it, but then realize it's something she gets directly from us.  :lol It's a good opportunity for some self-reflection I guess.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 15580
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #169 on: January 11, 2019, 09:41:08 AM »
As a parent of 2 kids (both girls 6 and almost 3) one of the constant struggles I have is straddling the line between being a hardass and giving in. I 100% believe that the entitlement culture we have going on is not a good thing and I want to try to raise my kids to appreciate the things they have and also learn how to be respectful and to listen and follow directions. I got in an argument with my 6 year old last nigh because she wanted to use a cookie cutter on her sandwich which I said no to. She ended up stealing the sandwich and used the cutter her self. Both of us lost it and start yelling at each other over a sandwich which in hindsight seems ridiculous. But at the time in my mind I was upset because she disobeyed my instructions and I'm sure she was pissed because she didn't get her way. I need to do a better job not emotionally escalating the situation but man that can be hard to do at the end of a long day.

Parenting is hard.

Well, no second-guessing here, because I wasn't there and I wouldn't dream of assuming I know better.  But, I probably would have given a pass on the cookie cutter - absent something else, like danger - but I would have dropped the fucking hammer on the latter.   We deal with this almost daily with my stepson (who is on the spectrum).  He's very literal - VERY literal - and we struggle with the transition from dad's to mom's. (He has him two nights a week until 8 pm and every other weekend).  Dad let's him do whatever the hell he wants - McDonald's for dinner at least once a week, unlimited cable, computer with internet, xBox, and tablet - and we, with the guidance of his therapist, his psychiatrist, his school psychologist and an independent psychiatrist that did a comprehensive study of him (where we got the autism diagnosis confirmed), have allowed some access but with firm limits of time and scope.   So when he  comes back, all limits and rules are out the window.   We don't worry about what he does, necessarily, but how he does it. 

Same with my daughter (who's still in high school).   I try to be as lenient as I can, but I'm not her best friend.  Being a senior, I try to balance the things that will have lasting impact that she should experience and what doesn't.   Sometimes, not to be a dick, but I say no just because, so she knows that life isn't about a party every day.   Granted she's at boarding school, so my input is limited at this point, but still.  Like my stepson, though, my biggest battle is with the other parent not her. 

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 15580
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #170 on: January 11, 2019, 09:46:46 AM »
Yep. Sounds identical to my situation. Even to the traits you described. 95% of the time it is really neat because we spend a lot of time together doing really cool stuff but man have we had some 'moments' when it comes to discipline.

Yeah my older daughter is also very much like me. She is very smart for her age and I sometimes forget that she's only 6.

I think something else that is tough about it (at least for us) is that you can see your own shortcomings in your kids sometimes. Nothing major for us yet with our daughter being so young, but little things like the way she processes certain emotions. We find ourselves trying to correct it, but then realize it's something she gets directly from us.  :lol It's a good opportunity for some self-reflection I guess.

Dude, we're LUCKY if we see our shortcomings in our kids; it's an opportunity to be self-reflective and perhaps even improve yourself.  In my experience, not every parent is receptive to that kind of input, nor self-aware enough to see it when it's there. 

I know for me, I'm a curious, curious person, to my benefit and detriment, and I struggle with balancing the "curiosity" of my kids with what is safe for them in this changing world.   Porn is a good example; for me, growing up, it was a Hustler or Penthouse magazine.   Honestly, with balance and a reminder that there are people on the other side of that picture that had to consent to their presence, what's the harm in that?   Contrast that with today, where a simple Google search can give you 50 hits of photos of stuff that would get you 5 or 20 in the Fed pen for just having it, let alone taking pictures of it.  Drugs are another; that doob being passed around the car back in '85 was either really good weed (which no doubt was there just out of dumb luck),regular tobacco, or oregano.  No harm, no foul.  Today?  Who the fuck knows, from PCP to fentanyl, it's like playing Russian Roulette. 

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5338
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #171 on: January 11, 2019, 11:01:02 AM »
Yep. Sounds identical to my situation. Even to the traits you described. 95% of the time it is really neat because we spend a lot of time together doing really cool stuff but man have we had some 'moments' when it comes to discipline.

Yeah my older daughter is also very much like me. She is very smart for her age and I sometimes forget that she's only 6.

I think something else that is tough about it (at least for us) is that you can see your own shortcomings in your kids sometimes. Nothing major for us yet with our daughter being so young, but little things like the way she processes certain emotions. We find ourselves trying to correct it, but then realize it's something she gets directly from us.  :lol It's a good opportunity for some self-reflection I guess.

Dude, we're LUCKY if we see our shortcomings in our kids; it's an opportunity to be self-reflective and perhaps even improve yourself.  In my experience, not every parent is receptive to that kind of input, nor self-aware enough to see it when it's there. 

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I think it's a good thing for sure. It does two things for us - (1) helps us relate to our daughter and hopefully drive our actions in a productive direction and (2) helps us work on ourselves. I think it's definitely a good thing, it's just a hard thing (like all good things).

Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 20811
  • Gender: Male
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #172 on: January 11, 2019, 11:32:48 AM »
As a parent of 2 kids (both girls 6 and almost 3) one of the constant struggles I have is straddling the line between being a hardass and giving in. I 100% believe that the entitlement culture we have going on is not a good thing and I want to try to raise my kids to appreciate the things they have and also learn how to be respectful and to listen and follow directions. I got in an argument with my 6 year old last nigh because she wanted to use a cookie cutter on her sandwich which I said no to. She ended up stealing the sandwich and used the cutter her self. Both of us lost it and start yelling at each other over a sandwich which in hindsight seems ridiculous. But at the time in my mind I was upset because she disobeyed my instructions and I'm sure she was pissed because she didn't get her way. I need to do a better job not emotionally escalating the situation but man that can be hard to do at the end of a long day.

Parenting is hard.

Don't think I'm picking on you, and don't take this personally. I'm just curious about your thought process because this is the kind of thing I think about when I ponder on being a parent one day. 

What was the big deal about her using the cookie cutter on a sandwich? To me, that's harmless, exploratory, and inquisitive. Was it a "don't play with your food" kind of thing? Again, not knocking you, but I feel like that could have been segued into some kind of other lesson. "You see, ______. That's made for cookies, not sandwiches, and now it's all dirty. We're going to have to clean that after dinner". Then make the kid clean it and put it away. My mom used to get on my case for seemingly pointless stuff as a kid, and we fought, and fought, and fought.


Offline lordxizor

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
  • Gender: Male
  • and that is the truth.
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #173 on: January 11, 2019, 11:39:11 AM »
The issue is that he said no and she did it anyway. Sometimes as parents we say no to things for not very good reasons (especially seen in retrospect). I know for me I say no a lot when I see something creating extra work for me even if there's nothing particularly wrong with it. I expect my children to obey regardless of my reasoning. I've tried to teach them to state their case better if they want me reconsider something I've said no to, but they're a bit young to really get that yet. Especially when you have kids that ask a ton of things, it can almost become a reflex to say no because you're asked 10 stupid things for every one legit thing.

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12532
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Parenting/marital advice
« Reply #174 on: January 11, 2019, 11:46:06 AM »
The issue is that he said no and she did it anyway. Sometimes as parents we say no to things for not very good reasons (especially seen in retrospect). I know for me I say no a lot when I see something creating extra work for me even if there's nothing particularly wrong with it. I expect my children to obey regardless of my reasoning. I've tried to teach them to state their case better if they want me reconsider something I've said no to, but they're a bit young to really get that yet. Especially when you have kids that ask a ton of things, it can almost become a reflex to say no because you're asked 10 stupid things for every one legit thing.

Yeah...exactly this. The point is kids need to listen to their parents.....they don't know (and up to a certain age) and don't need to know the 'why'. My 'educated' parent guess is kaos knows that a cookie cutter is designed for a cookie and not a sandwich...alas...the 'struggle' to cut through the sandwich could lead to a couple things like maybe cutting herself....slipping and knocking over a glass of milk...etc etc. It's a 'don't play with your food' deal. The inquisitive nature she has can be satiated by other means. Teaching proper table manners is a mandatory responsibility.

I can't tell you how many times I say to any or all of my sons "I wasn't asking you" when it comes to something I've told them to do. Until their (18) they will respect mine and my wife's instructions. I'm not 'getting off' on telling my kids what to do like some power trip. 99% of what I tell them to do is teaching them something.....and, when they don't listen or try to argue the point they learn about discipline.

There are times when I'll walk them through an explanation of 'why' I've directed them to do something....when it's a teachable moment I know they'll grasp.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind