Pantera

[wolfking]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

[wolfking]

This popped up in my youtube feed tonight..

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XhZKIn8wk4A

It was no secret Vinnies thoughts.  I'm sure there must have been a lot of discussion and heavy thinking behind it.  Maybe something changed with Vinnie before his passing.  Money is obviously the driving force with this but we probably will never know the full specifics.

[Kwyjibo]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

No, I'm with Tim on this one. A new Anthrax is much more exciting than a Pantera tribute.

[Grappler]

This popped up in my youtube feed tonight..

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XhZKIn8wk4A

It was no secret Vinnies thoughts.  I'm sure there must have been a lot of discussion and heavy thinking behind it.  Maybe something changed with Vinnie before his passing.  Money is obviously the driving force with this but we probably will never know the full specifics.

I don't think anything changed - Vinnie stuck to his guns right up until his death.  I'm sure once the Abbott estate saw some numbers, things loosened up quick - promoters are willing to pay X per show, the band will pay a percentage to the estate if you sign off on the tour dates for "authenticity."  Phil and Rita are also on good terms, which helps. 

[cramx3]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

No, I'm with Tim on this one. A new Anthrax is much more exciting than a Pantera tribute.

Anthrax is going back on tour to start 2023, I don't think there's much reason to think Pantera is hurting Anthrax at this time.

[wolfking]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

No, I'm with Tim on this one. A new Anthrax is much more exciting than a Pantera tribute.

Haha, yeah just having a laugh.  For All Kings is the only real Anthrax album I really enjoy so I'm interested in hearing a follow up myself.

[TAC]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

 

[DoctorAction]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

No, I'm with Tim on this one. A new Anthrax is much more exciting than a Pantera tribute.

Haha, yeah just having a laugh.  For All Kings is the only real Anthrax album I really enjoy so I'm interested in hearing a follow up myself.

I also like it but

[wolfking]

All the fans waiting for Charlie to finish with Pantera and get back to Anthrax........nah, it's just Tim.

No, I'm with Tim on this one. A new Anthrax is much more exciting than a Pantera tribute.

Haha, yeah just having a laugh.  For All Kings is the only real Anthrax album I really enjoy so I'm interested in hearing a follow up myself.

I also like it but

Yeah I know.......I dunno, just nothing really tickles me like it.  I probably need to give the older albums more of a chance though.

[cfmoran13]

Yesterday, at Santiago Chile's Knotfest, we had the first performance of "Pantera" with just Phil and 3 non-Pantera guys.  Supposedly, Rex was home quarantining from Covid.  The bassist from Phil's Illegals band and Cattle Decapitation, Derek Engemann, filled in.  Rex performed in Colombia on Friday and flew home afterwards.  It sucks.  But, it just costs too much for these guys to cancel a gig or two, especially these big festivals.  I wonder how many people there even know it wasn't Rex.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/pantera-performs-at-knotfest-chile-without-rex-brown

[cramx3]

Yesterday, at Santiago Chile's Knotfest, we had the first performance of "Pantera" with just Phil and 3 non-Pantera guys.  Supposedly, Rex was home quarantining from Covid.  The bassist from Phil's Illegals band and Cattle Decapitation, Derek Engemann, filled in.  Rex performed in Colombia on Friday and flew home afterwards.  It sucks.  But, it just costs too much for these guys to cancel a gig or two, especially these big festivals.  I wonder how many people there even know it wasn't Rex.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/pantera-performs-at-knotfest-chile-without-rex-brown

I'm not sure they cared from seeing some of the videos of that show, it looked wild  but yeah, it's a bit odd for it to go to a one man original band like that, but it's for legit reasons.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I mean honestly, it feels like Phil is running this whole spectacle anyway.

[cfmoran13]

I'm not sure they cared from seeing some of the videos of that show, it looked wild  but yeah, it's a bit odd for it to go to a one man original band like that, but it's for legit reasons.

I'm sure they didn't care.  Had I been there, I don't think I would've cared.  Truthfully, to me, Rex is the least important part of that band.  Phil is the voice and the Abbotts were the backbone.  I'm not saying he's NOT important, just the least important.  As long as the band sounded good and the fans enjoyed it, nothing else matters.

[wolfking]

Yeah, poor Rex has always just kinda been there.  Don't see anyone walking out that he wasn't there. 

[Stadler]

I can't say I am a Pantera fan, but isn't have Anselmo and Wylde in the same band like prick overload?  If I had to think of the 5-10 biggest pricks in rock or metal, both would unquestionably be on the list.

I get Anselmo, but Wylde?  He's not a shrinking violet, but he's usually pretty respectful and recognizes his place in the (rock'n'roll) cosmos.

[Stadler]

Keep in mind that I've never been a Pantera fan aside from perhaps Cemetery Gates and maybe one or two other tracks, so this "reunion" or whatever you wanna call it doesn't mean much to me personally. But am I the only one calling BS on how this is what at least Vinnie would want? I check out Blabbermouth pretty often, and regularly I see "headlines" from all sort of musicians such as Paul Stanley, Corey Taylor and a bunch of others who have all proclaimed in interviews that Dime and Vinnie would be proud of this. Now I know that the estates of both Dime and Vinnie have given this thing the OK, but given that Vinnie remained on non-speaking terms with Phil until he died (and I don't think his relationship with Rex was great either) and based on comments I've read that he made in various interviews (courtesy of Blabbermouth), I find it hard to believe that Vinnie personally would've been OK with this thing. Am I the only one on this board to think this way?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me personally either way, but I find it comical how all these famous musicians are speaking out in support of this as if it's necessary or if they're trying to convince the naysayers to see that this is a good thing that Vinnie would've wanted. From my perspective, it looks more like wishful thinking or simply trying to push something through as fact until it essentially becomes fact.  Anyone more knowledgeable about Pantera, feel free to explain this to me (aside from telling me that Phil and Rex were also part of the band and so therefore have the right to perform - I get that). Is there any provable evidence that Vinnie had a change of heart shortly before he died? Because from my (very limited) perspective, if Vinnie was still alive today, I don't think "Pantera" would be out on tour again right now or perhaps ever.

Scotty, I'm with you 10,000% on this.  Having been through the loss of two people that I was perhaps as close to as any human beings can be, I'm under ZERO delusions that I know what my parents would or would not have wanted, except in those instances where they've clearly said what it is they want (or don't want). 

I also know (and I've stated this here before) that the lines between "A Tribute to Pantera!" and "Pantera: The Band" are blurring here.  Some of that is the media being sloppy, but I saw some ads for the tour that were "Metallica with Pantera".  Boom, full stop.   I just know from having followed bands for decades that patently do not get along, people surprise me every single time.   Why Keith Richards and Mick Jagger still make music together (or Joe Perry and Steven Tyler, as other examples) is beyond me, but they find a way.  It shocks me that Jon Anderson and Chris Squire remained on the outs until Chris's death (though I understand there was peace at the end).  I watched John and Mike CELEBRATE each other twice on this last tour and I never thought I'd see that. For ANYONE - even his girlfriend, unless he SAID it to her, and I don't understand that he did - to assume that Dime would "want" or "like" anything is ridiculous. 

[cramx3]

Keep in mind that I've never been a Pantera fan aside from perhaps Cemetery Gates and maybe one or two other tracks, so this "reunion" or whatever you wanna call it doesn't mean much to me personally. But am I the only one calling BS on how this is what at least Vinnie would want? I check out Blabbermouth pretty often, and regularly I see "headlines" from all sort of musicians such as Paul Stanley, Corey Taylor and a bunch of others who have all proclaimed in interviews that Dime and Vinnie would be proud of this. Now I know that the estates of both Dime and Vinnie have given this thing the OK, but given that Vinnie remained on non-speaking terms with Phil until he died (and I don't think his relationship with Rex was great either) and based on comments I've read that he made in various interviews (courtesy of Blabbermouth), I find it hard to believe that Vinnie personally would've been OK with this thing. Am I the only one on this board to think this way?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me personally either way, but I find it comical how all these famous musicians are speaking out in support of this as if it's necessary or if they're trying to convince the naysayers to see that this is a good thing that Vinnie would've wanted. From my perspective, it looks more like wishful thinking or simply trying to push something through as fact until it essentially becomes fact.  Anyone more knowledgeable about Pantera, feel free to explain this to me (aside from telling me that Phil and Rex were also part of the band and so therefore have the right to perform - I get that). Is there any provable evidence that Vinnie had a change of heart shortly before he died? Because from my (very limited) perspective, if Vinnie was still alive today, I don't think "Pantera" would be out on tour again right now or perhaps ever.

Scotty, I'm with you 10,000% on this.  Having been through the loss of two people that I was perhaps as close to as any human beings can be, I'm under ZERO delusions that I know what my parents would or would not have wanted, expect in those instances where they've said they want (or don't want). 

I also know (and I've stated this here before) that the lines between "A Tribute to Pantera!" and "Pantera: The Band" are blurring here.  Some of that is the media being sloppy, but I saw some ads for the tour that were "Metallica with Pantera".  Boom, full stop.   I just know from having followed bands for decades that patently do not get along, people surprise me every single time.   Why Keith Richards and Mick Jagger still make music together (or Joe Perry and Steven Tyler, as other examples) is beyond me, but they find a way.  It shocks me that Jon Anderson and Chris Squire remained on the outs until Chris's death (though I understand there was peace at the end).  I watched John and Mike CELEBRATE each other twice on this last tour and I never thought I'd see that. For ANYONE - even his girlfriend, unless he SAID it to her, and I don't understand that he did - to assume that Dime would "want" or "like" anything is ridiculous.

I also am not a big fan or closely follow Pantera, but lets say Vinnie was still alive.... a lot of time has passed, without knowing the details here, I have to think it's very possible he would have gotten over whatever issues they had by now.  We've seen it time and time again with other bands and especially when a lucrative tour opportunity comes, that members can overcome their dislike of each other to perform as a band again.  My point is merely, it's impossible to say what the relationships would be like today if Vinnie and/or Dimebag hadn't died.

[gmillerdrake]

Keep in mind that I've never been a Pantera fan aside from perhaps Cemetery Gates and maybe one or two other tracks, so this "reunion" or whatever you wanna call it doesn't mean much to me personally. But am I the only one calling BS on how this is what at least Vinnie would want? I check out Blabbermouth pretty often, and regularly I see "headlines" from all sort of musicians such as Paul Stanley, Corey Taylor and a bunch of others who have all proclaimed in interviews that Dime and Vinnie would be proud of this. Now I know that the estates of both Dime and Vinnie have given this thing the OK, but given that Vinnie remained on non-speaking terms with Phil until he died (and I don't think his relationship with Rex was great either) and based on comments I've read that he made in various interviews (courtesy of Blabbermouth), I find it hard to believe that Vinnie personally would've been OK with this thing. Am I the only one on this board to think this way?

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me personally either way, but I find it comical how all these famous musicians are speaking out in support of this as if it's necessary or if they're trying to convince the naysayers to see that this is a good thing that Vinnie would've wanted. From my perspective, it looks more like wishful thinking or simply trying to push something through as fact until it essentially becomes fact.  Anyone more knowledgeable about Pantera, feel free to explain this to me (aside from telling me that Phil and Rex were also part of the band and so therefore have the right to perform - I get that). Is there any provable evidence that Vinnie had a change of heart shortly before he died? Because from my (very limited) perspective, if Vinnie was still alive today, I don't think "Pantera" would be out on tour again right now or perhaps ever.

Scotty, I'm with you 10,000% on this.  Having been through the loss of two people that I was perhaps as close to as any human beings can be, I'm under ZERO delusions that I know what my parents would or would not have wanted, expect in those instances where they've said they want (or don't want). 

I also know (and I've stated this here before) that the lines between "A Tribute to Pantera!" and "Pantera: The Band" are blurring here.  Some of that is the media being sloppy, but I saw some ads for the tour that were "Metallica with Pantera".  Boom, full stop.   I just know from having followed bands for decades that patently do not get along, people surprise me every single time.   Why Keith Richards and Mick Jagger still make music together (or Joe Perry and Steven Tyler, as other examples) is beyond me, but they find a way.  It shocks me that Jon Anderson and Chris Squire remained on the outs until Chris's death (though I understand there was peace at the end).  I watched John and Mike CELEBRATE each other twice on this last tour and I never thought I'd see that. For ANYONE - even his girlfriend, unless he SAID it to her, and I don't understand that he did - to assume that Dime would "want" or "like" anything is ridiculous.

I also am not a big fan or closely follow Pantera, but lets say Vinnie was still alive.... a lot of time has passed, without knowing the details here, I have to think it's very possible he would have gotten over whatever issues they had by now. We've seen it time and time again with other bands and especially when a lucrative tour opportunity comes, that members can overcome their dislike of each other to perform as a band again.  My point is merely, it's impossible to say what the relationships would be like today if Vinnie and/or Dimebag hadn't died.

I don't know......maybe had Dime not been killed......I can see a scenario where they make amends and perform together again. But there are countless interviews out there in print and on video where Vinnie is 100% committed to there never being a 'Pantera' tour again because Dime was dead and there is no Pantera without him. Plus, it's one thing to break up as a band then make up but it's another when your brother is murdered by someone who was directly/indirectly inspired by Phil to carry out that shooting. Vinnie was holding a pretty strong grudge against him and I don't think that would have ever subsided to be honest after watching some of those interviews.


This Pantera cover band is going to make a butt ton of $$$ for a lot of people so I think that's why we're seeing this passed off as some sort of 'reunion' or whatever. But, as the many videos of the shows illustrate.....this is just a cover band....that is it.....and IMO it's a cover band with a guitarist struggling to hold up his end of the deal.

[cramx3]

Yeah, I mean, it's totally possible this never happens if Vinnie is still alive.  But we just don't know.  Especially, like I said, with the potential money being offered to do this tour.  Obviously things are very emotional, but I truly think time heals all wounds.  Maybe not in this case, but it's just so hard to be strongly opinionated one way or the other here. (as someone who isn't too close to the band, I can see why those who are big fans have stronger opinions)

IMO it's a cover band with a guitarist struggling to hold up his end of the deal.

Why do you think this?  Not arguing as I'm not really following their performances, I'm just wondering what he's doing wrong.

[gmillerdrake]

IMO it's a cover band with a guitarist struggling to hold up his end of the deal.

Why do you think this?  Not arguing as I'm not really following their performances, I'm just wondering what he's doing wrong.

This is probably where it's just what you're expectations are from this tour/performance. If you're going to use or bill the name 'Pantera' I expect Pantera level sound. None of the solo spots sound anything like Dime's solos.....maybe every now and then there's a hint of the original but they aren't even close. And, which....I get that he's Zakk Wylde and not Dimebag.....his little signature squeal/noodle thing is littered throughout all the songs. I remain baffled as to 'how' he's considered a good guitarist but whatever. It's all opinion but for me he's just too far off base from the original guitar riffs and sounds. He's playing them close enough to get through the songs and entertain the crowds but Pantera/Dimes signature sound was just a thick, powerful rhythm of his riffs and captivating solo's.....and that's missing.

Drummer is doing good but it's a much "simpler" ask IMO as it's pretty clear cut what he's expected to do.

I 'get' the argument for having Zakk serve as the guitarist with his friendship to Dime and he's a "big name" draw. But for me and what I hear....it's just Phil and the Illegals with a different guitarist.

[cramx3]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

[gmillerdrake]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

[WilliamMunny]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

Couple of things come to mind here:

1. As someone who cut his teeth on Zakk and Dime's lead playing (both huge influences on me as a player), I will be the first to tell you that they are very different players who come from very different schools of playing.

2. Respectfully, I believe that Zakk is more than capable of playing Dime's parts note for note. I suspect that his deviations from the Dime's solos (which are most notable in "This Love" and "I'm Broken") in the videos posted are more about Zakk wanting to put his own spin on Dime's work—Dime was a dear friend. This may irk some fans, but I promise you that Zakk is aware of every deviation.

3. I've covered a lot of guitarists over the years, and there are two schools of thought when it comes to this: play it note-for-note, or put your own spin on it. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but as I've gotten older, I tend to lean toward 'capturing the essence of a part' while putting my own spin on it—especially when it comes to a player I respect and admire. It's difficult to explain, but to me, this feels like the most respectful way to honor a musical hero.

4. I'm (obviously) a huge fan of Zakk. While I can only offer personal anecdotes, I have met him various times throughout the years, and the man has always been nothing but humble and gracious. 20 years ago, when BLS was playing to 10 people on the bar circuit, I saw Zakk numerous times at shows, and he treated every show (and fan) like he was at MSG.

5. I'm on record as not being a fan of the way this 'reunion' is being billed—the whole thing reeks of a cash-grab and, as a long-time fan of the Abbot brothers, does not sit well with me. That said, I suspect (and I have nothing other than my gut to go on with this) that Zakk's mindset was, 'if not me, then it will be somebody else.' I know that if I were in his shoes, I'd want to be the one standing in for my dead friend.

[Awaken]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

Couple of things come to mind here:

1. As someone who cut his teeth on Zakk and Dime's lead playing (both huge influences on me as a player), I will be the first to tell you that they are very different players who come from very different schools of playing.

2. Respectfully, I believe that Zakk is more than capable of playing Dime's parts note for note. I suspect that his deviations from the Dime's solos (which are most notable in "This Love" and "I'm Broken") in the videos posted are more about Zakk wanting to put his own spin on Dime's work—Dime was a dear friend. This may irk some fans, but I promise you that Zakk is aware of every deviation.

3. I've covered a lot of guitarists over the years, and there are two schools of thought when it comes to this: play it note-for-note, or put your own spin on it. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but as I've gotten older, I tend to lean toward 'capturing the essence of a part' while putting my own spin on it—especially when it comes to a player I respect and admire. It's difficult to explain, but to me, this feels like the most respectful way to honor a musical hero.

4. I'm (obviously) a huge fan of Zakk. While I can only offer personal anecdotes, I have met him various times throughout the years, and the man has always been nothing but humble and gracious. 20 years ago, when BLS was playing to 10 people on the bar circuit, I saw Zakk numerous times at shows, and he treated every show (and fan) like he was at MSG.

5. I'm on record as not being a fan of the way this 'reunion' is being billed—the whole thing reeks of a cash-grab and, as a long-time fan of the Abbot brothers, does not sit well with me. That said, I suspect (and I have nothing other than my gut to go on with this) that Zakk's mindset was, 'if not me, then it will be somebody else.' I know that if I were in his shoes, I'd want to be the one standing in for my dead friend.

Great post, totally agree on all points.  It really shouldn't come as a shock to anyone re: how Zakk is approaching the solos, etc on this project.  He spent years doing the exact same thing w Ozzy playing his interpretation of Randy Rhoads' parts, too.  And Tony Iommi.  And Jake E. Lee.  And <insert original guitarist name here>. 

[gmillerdrake]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

Couple of things come to mind here:

1. As someone who cut his teeth on Zakk and Dime's lead playing (both huge influences on me as a player), I will be the first to tell you that they are very different players who come from very different schools of playing.

2. Respectfully, I believe that Zakk is more than capable of playing Dime's parts note for note. I suspect that his deviations from the Dime's solos (which are most notable in "This Love" and "I'm Broken") in the videos posted are more about Zakk wanting to put his own spin on Dime's work—Dime was a dear friend. This may irk some fans, but I promise you that Zakk is aware of every deviation.

3. I've covered a lot of guitarists over the years, and there are two schools of thought when it comes to this: play it note-for-note, or put your own spin on it. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but as I've gotten older, I tend to lean toward 'capturing the essence of a part' while putting my own spin on it—especially when it comes to a player I respect and admire. It's difficult to explain, but to me, this feels like the most respectful way to honor a musical hero.

4. I'm (obviously) a huge fan of Zakk. While I can only offer personal anecdotes, I have met him various times throughout the years, and the man has always been nothing but humble and gracious. 20 years ago, when BLS was playing to 10 people on the bar circuit, I saw Zakk numerous times at shows, and he treated every show (and fan) like he was at MSG.

5. I'm on record as not being a fan of the way this 'reunion' is being billed—the whole thing reeks of a cash-grab and, as a long-time fan of the Abbot brothers, does not sit well with me. That said, I suspect (and I have nothing other than my gut to go on with this) that Zakk's mindset was, 'if not me, then it will be somebody else.' I know that if I were in his shoes, I'd want to be the one standing in for my dead friend.

Good post Sir.....and I've admitted that I'm not intimately familiar with Zakk's playing....I've heard him play....but, I don't follow his career per say. I totally get your post and the point behind it and I never wanted to suggest that he is a dick or some kind of asshole as I wouldn't begin to even know that. I just haven't been impressed by his coverage of Dime's parts on the tour thus far and don't think he's come close in any of the solos. Whether that's intentional or not is the question I guess....but on a 'Pantera' tour I personally would want to hear the original solos for the songs.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I think that's the issue.  If he was playing like this doing a cover for a BLS gig, it'd be fine.  But when the giant Pantera banner is above them on stage, I'm expecting faithful recreations, and these are not that. 

[WilliamMunny]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

Couple of things come to mind here:

1. As someone who cut his teeth on Zakk and Dime's lead playing (both huge influences on me as a player), I will be the first to tell you that they are very different players who come from very different schools of playing.

2. Respectfully, I believe that Zakk is more than capable of playing Dime's parts note for note. I suspect that his deviations from the Dime's solos (which are most notable in "This Love" and "I'm Broken") in the videos posted are more about Zakk wanting to put his own spin on Dime's work—Dime was a dear friend. This may irk some fans, but I promise you that Zakk is aware of every deviation.

3. I've covered a lot of guitarists over the years, and there are two schools of thought when it comes to this: play it note-for-note, or put your own spin on it. There are pros and cons to both approaches, but as I've gotten older, I tend to lean toward 'capturing the essence of a part' while putting my own spin on it—especially when it comes to a player I respect and admire. It's difficult to explain, but to me, this feels like the most respectful way to honor a musical hero.

4. I'm (obviously) a huge fan of Zakk. While I can only offer personal anecdotes, I have met him various times throughout the years, and the man has always been nothing but humble and gracious. 20 years ago, when BLS was playing to 10 people on the bar circuit, I saw Zakk numerous times at shows, and he treated every show (and fan) like he was at MSG.

5. I'm on record as not being a fan of the way this 'reunion' is being billed—the whole thing reeks of a cash-grab and, as a long-time fan of the Abbot brothers, does not sit well with me. That said, I suspect (and I have nothing other than my gut to go on with this) that Zakk's mindset was, 'if not me, then it will be somebody else.' I know that if I were in his shoes, I'd want to be the one standing in for my dead friend.

Good post Sir.....and I've admitted that I'm not intimately familiar with Zakk's playing....I've heard him play....but, I don't follow his career per say. I totally get your post and the point behind it and I never wanted to suggest that he is a dick or some kind of asshole as I wouldn't begin to even know that. I just haven't been impressed by his coverage of Dime's parts on the tour thus far and don't think he's come close in any of the solos. Whether that's intentional or not is the question I guess....but on a 'Pantera' tour I personally would want to hear the original solos for the songs.

It's all good, G-man.

I wasn't only referencing your post with my comments (and apologize for failing to throw in specific quotes)—there have been some swipes at Zakk on this thread, so I just wanted to offer my perspective. He may very well be a 'douche,' but that has not been my experience.

Your last line, however, underscores my main criticism: call it 'Cowboys From Hell: A Tribute to Pantera,' and most of our complaints about how 'authentic' the representation is suddenly fall away.

I understand the economics here (hence my 'cash-grab' point), but I feel like the 'Pantera' billing is a massive misstep here on the part of the powers that be.

[Stadler]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

I say this with respect, because we're talking about "opinions" and yours is as valid as anyone else's, but clearly you're not a Zakk fan - for better or worse - so there's that. I DIG Zakk; I think he's Ozzy's second best guitar player by a long shot (St. Rhoads is #1) and I dig his soloing.  It may not be Pantera, I'll give you that, but it sounds like you think Zakk is a drop off from Dime and for someone like me - for whom Pantera never really rang the bell - it's the opposite. 

EDIT:  What William Munny said. 

[gmillerdrake]

Oh, if he's not being faithful to the original, that's not cool.  I've never been a big fan of his. But if he's making it more about him than Pantera, I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think he's capable of playing Dime's solos so I think that's why he doesn't even attempt it. The rhythm parts are there but there is 'flare' added as I mentioned here and there and he does struggle to even keep those sounding correct.

The cool thing is though is for his age and the abuse he's put his voice/body through.....Phil sounds pretty dang good!

I say this with respect, because we're talking about "opinions" and yours is as valid as anyone else's, but clearly you're not a Zakk fan - for better or worse - so there's that. I DIG Zakk; I think he's Ozzy's second best guitar player by a long shot (St. Rhoads is #1) and I dig his soloing.  It may not be Pantera, I'll give you that, but it sounds like you think Zakk is a drop off from Dime and for someone like me - for whom Pantera never really rang the bell - it's the opposite.

Yeah....maybe if I was more familiar with his stuff I'd be more 'ok' with how he's playing and what not.....but I'm not...so that's probably the hang up for me. I don't know that I dig his style all that much

[Volante99]

When it comes to soloing, Dime and Zakk are very different players with different strengths.

Typically, with shredders, you have two types of players- those with stronger fretting hand technique (Joe Satriani, George Lynch) and those with stronger picking hand technique (Al DiMeola, John Petrucci). Dime had an otherworldly fretting hand ability, almost like his left hand had seven fingers that could dance around the fretboard like nobody’s business. Zakk on the other hand has one of the most ferocious picking hands on the planet. That said, Zakk is perfectly capable of playing a close approximation of Dime’s stuff while still leaning into his own strengths and putting his own spin on the solos. Zakk is a student of shred, and has gone on record priding himself on doing his homework and playing Randy’s stuff, faithfully.

That’s why I’m absolutely SHOCKED with some of his soloing performances on this tour. “Cowboys from Hell” and “Walk” are serviceable enough, but on songs like “A New Level” he’s clearly half-assing it with his trademarked “pentatonics-up-and-down-at-top-speed”. Perhaps he’s still finding his footing but he’s capable of much much more than what he’s currently doing.

[Samsara]

So, I've been listening to all the live performances in recent months. I'm sorry, but this is awful. Phil simply cannot sing the songs, and as a result, the band has detuned and it's so low it's mud.

Look, I wish I could have seen Pantera too. I never made the effort before Dime was killed. I wish I would have. But it's hard to listen to all this drop-tuned stuff with Phil not even really able to clearly sing the words. I know the crowds are going nuts, which means this will likely never end. But as a Pantera fan, I just wish it never began.

It was fine when Phil was doing Pantera songs with his solo band. I expect those to be different - it's not Pantera. But if you go out AS Pantera, you need to deliver, and some of these Pantera performances are downright embarrassing.

[cramx3]

Pantera - A New Level LIVE @ Metlife Stadium East Rutherford NJ 8/4/2023

Thought they were a lot of fun last night.

Sadly, their sound mostly sucked making it hard to hear Phil, but the crowd was into it and there was a lot of energy in the stadium (which was still fairly empty when they started their set with the song I shared, but filled up by the time they ended).  I'm not a huge Pantera fan generally so I'm not going to be able to critique them against their original line up, but I thought Charlie and Zakk were good overall.  Charlie had two different drum sets on opposite ends of the stage that he switched halfway through.  Phil mostly circled around the stadium throughout the set while the rest kind of migrated slowly.  Definitely an odd set up to see, but there were like 5 or so scattered mosh pits to enjoy watching from the stands.  Set was close to 50 minutes, about what you can expect as an opener.  They delivered the goods I'd say and I think the people who were there enjoyed the set a lot.



Blabbermouth also shared my video (at the bottom  :'( ) https://blabbermouth.net/news/see-pantera-play-first-concert-as-support-act-for-metallica-on-m72-tour

[Grappler]

So, I've been listening to all the live performances in recent months. I'm sorry, but this is awful. Phil simply cannot sing the songs, and as a result, the band has detuned and it's so low it's mud.

I can agree with this, though I give them credit for tightening up more.  Zakk's rhythm playing is better than it was when they started playing these shows, but the downtuning is distracting. 

The live clips just make me go and search for footage from 1997-2001, when the band was ferocious and the guitar tone was razor sharp.  I think it's cool that they're doing this for people, but it will definitely never compare to the original lineup, who was a true force of nature on stage. 

[WilliamMunny]

So, I've been listening to all the live performances in recent months. I'm sorry, but this is awful. Phil simply cannot sing the songs, and as a result, the band has detuned and it's so low it's mud.

I can agree with this, though I give them credit for tightening up more.  Zakk's rhythm playing is better than it was when they started playing these shows, but the downtuning is distracting. 

The live clips just make me go and search for footage from 1997-2001, when the band was ferocious and the guitar tone was razor sharp.  I think it's cool that they're doing this for people, but it will definitely never compare to the original lineup, who was a true force of nature on stage.

I've done the same thing!

I saw them in '97, and, at that time, Pantera was the 'tightest,' 'heaviest' band I'd ever seen. I LOVED Trendkill (it is still my fav Pantera album, by far), and Phil was just on another planet. Yes, he talked too much, and yes, he took shots at Metallica, but whatever...he owned the stage, and that LIVE 101 Proof is a good approximation of the show I saw.

Now, thanks to Youtube, I've been able to go back and watch some fan-filmed bootleg content from that tour, and the band is every bit as ferocious as I remember.

Fun fact: I worked an in-store back in the summer of 2000 when Pantera came to town–spent 4 hours essentially handing the boys sharpies and grabbing them stacks of cd's (they easily spent $1000 on music that afternoon).

My impressions at the time? Dime was a tad reserved, but super cool. Rex was, well, I honestly don't remember him saying anything. Vinnie was in a fowl mood and treated everyone like shit.

And Phil...Phil was in a strange mood. He smiled and nodded, dutifully signed everything that was handed to him, but on more than one occasion, he muttered under his breath (loud enough that me, and everyone else, including the band could hear), "I'm so over this f*cking Pantera bs."

Anyway, talk about the last gasp of a long gone era. I mean, my store held in-store signings with bands 12-15 times a year. Not sure that's a thing anymore, especially now with every band embracing the VIP pay-to-be-backstage model.

[billboy73]

That's a cool story.  Phil was so drugged out in that era...

I am with you on Trendkill.  It's my favorite Pantera album too, and really the only one I revisit much anymore.  I love how dark and heavy that record is.