Dave Chappelle

[TAC]

Is this the part everyone's talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLK16VFEMaM


Seemed fine to me.

I don't know anything about Dave Chappelle. Don't know any of his shows or specials by name. But I have watched a ton of youtube clips and I think he's really funny. He can be serious at times, and while I haven't always laughed at everything (not that I found it offensive, but more so that I didn't understand his POV), I've always found him incredible clever.



I have never found George Carlin funny. As in ever. Clever as hell, but he always came off to me as an asshole. Like he was the smartest guy in the room.

[King Postwhore]

You use an example with someone who would never do that.  Yet, Chappelle has done this for decades. Why is it a shock now?

I call shenanigans on those questioning this now.

It's the time we live in. Most will not watch this stand up but will give their 2 cents.  None will no the story of Dave bonding with a Trans only to see that community destroy their own. 

[XeRocks81]

this seems an in depth overview of the situation https://www.vox.com/22722357/dave-chappelle-the-closer-netflix-backlash-controversy-transphobic

[KevShmev]

Okay, seriously, can we knock off using the n-word?  Even if it is quoting someone or whatever, it's seems out of bounds.

[King Postwhore]

To say this,

"He even compares being trans to wearing blackface, an alarming reframing of the insidious idea that trans people make a mockery of gender."

Is to use your own media credentials to put what you think into what Dave thought.

If you don't know what black face has meant to thr black community,  then you shouldn't use that as an example.

[Cool Chris]

Interesting takeaway for me from that article, a topic about comedy, and entertainment in general, that others have alluded to in this thread:

How much you enjoy The Closer will depend on whether you’re able or willing to believe the comic and the human are separate entities...

[King Postwhore]

Time for bed.

I want to leave this. A man admitted that he saw another point of view and realized he was wrong.  To see those ridicule the one person that opened his eyes has to take a toll on a person.

To admit this as a comedian is huge.


Yet people feed off the negative they perceive.

Night. 

[Dave_Manchester]

Okay, seriously, can we knock off using the n-word?  Even if it is quoting someone or whatever, it's seems out of bounds.

"It seems out of bounds", Jesus fucking Christ, read the thread you've been letting happen. The praising of the mocking of the trans community isn't "out of bounds" but a racial slur reminds you that you're supposed to be pretending to be morally outraged? If only there were a single historically-offensive word for trans people I guess. What a joke when people who don't give a fuck pretend to give a fuck.

[cramx3]

^^ To me, Dave Chappelle pushed boundaries for comedians with his early work on racial and social inequality. His bits on the "Chinese terrorists" calling the White House about the black hostages they'd taken? Brilliant. His white buddy 'Chip', who acted as a white mirror to the black experience with cops? Genius. Grape drink? Already mentioned it. The TV stuff he did with Clayton Bixby (the blind black white supremacist) or the 'Niggar Family'? Absolutely ground-breaking (and also very brave, given when he was doing it).

Those bits were all funny and this one wasn't.  Is that the difference?

Okay, seriously, can we knock off using the n-word?  Even if it is quoting someone or whatever, it's seems out of bounds.

"It seems out of bounds", Jesus fucking Christ, read the thread you've been letting happen. The praising of the mocking of the trans community isn't "out of bounds" but a racial slur reminds you that you're supposed to be pretending to be morally outraged? If only there were a single historically-offensive word for trans people I guess. What a joke when people who don't give a fuck pretend to give a fuck.

I don't think quoting the word in context should be an issue personally.  I'm not sure it's different than singing a song that includes the word. 

[Stadler]

(which to me is like saying "Dream Theater's new album doesn't sound very good but it uses an 8-string in a crazy time signature and so therefore it's great!")

To be fair, some people ARE saying that. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Okay, seriously, can we knock off using the n-word?  Even if it is quoting someone or whatever, it's seems out of bounds.

"It seems out of bounds", Jesus fucking Christ, read the thread you've been letting happen. The praising of the mocking of the trans community isn't "out of bounds" but a racial slur reminds you that you're supposed to be pretending to be morally outraged? If only there were a single historically-offensive word for trans people I guess. What a joke when people who don't give a fuck pretend to give a fuck.

The only ones who should actually give a fuck are the ones whom that word is offending.

Think of it like the Native American Mascot issue. Some Natives do not have a problem with it, while others do. And at that, it's very interesting on what type of Natives are the ones screaming that it's "racist".

I personally see no problem with the "Redskins" logo. Only the name, as that is a term used for the scalping and like a hunt for the greatest game of Native People. It's like saying, "$10 per jewskin, $60 caucasaianskin (Causkin), and $100 for catholicskin".

You know what is another interesting fact is the use of this word (the "N" word) by Native People, as Native American youth have been heavily influenced by that HIP-HOP culture.


For me, you can either be offended and let it get to you psychologically. Or rise above it, don't let it bother you, and claim that word and make it become a different meaning. A great example of words changing meaning is the word Faggot. I am Bi-sexual, and lean to men, yet when someone would call me a Faggot, I say "I'm not a cigarette".


Words are words and if you can handle words and be witty with a comeback of those words, you'll be fine in life as the other will become confused as you joke and make fun of the insult by being witty.

[Stadler]

So Ben, what do you do when SOME of the community is offended, and some not?  Is there a threshold?   Majority rules?

And what happens when that "offense" isn't REALLY offense, but is simply a weapon to be used to assert power?  Isn't "I'm offended!" a way to assert control for some? 

[lonestar]

Just watched the link Tim posted. It seems through most of it he's working through stuff of his own, he blatantly admits his own transphobia a few times, and is processing it publicly. As to his final line, I can't comment. I am not a member of either community and have no grounds from which to speak.

[Ben_Jamin]

So Ben, what do you do when SOME of the community is offended, and some not?  Is there a threshold?   Majority rules?

And what happens when that "offense" isn't REALLY offense, but is simply a weapon to be used to assert power?  Isn't "I'm offended!" a way to assert control for some?

Well, the ones being listened to are the ones screaming the loudest. Personally, I don't care as it's not a concern as much as the detriment of our Natural Environment.

Psychologically it is a concern for some who do get offended, but these people get offended or take things to heart about a lot of things. Even criticism they'll take unkindly to, even if that criticism is the truth.

Also, that image is only one representation of the various Native Tribes. And those screaming are mainly Urban Natives connecting with their lost identity that was taken from them as they were forced into these geographic locations away from their original homelands.

There are two demographics of Native Americans, The Traditional ones who have that Native Mindset and the ones who are fine with assimilating into "civilization" into that American mindset.

And these two demographics butt heads on social and political issues. It's an issue deeper than most think and an issue we as Native People can only solve ourselves.

[hunnus2000]

Just watched the link Tim posted. It seems through most of it he's working through stuff of his own, he blatantly admits his own transphobia a few times, and is processing it publicly. As to his final line, I can't comment. I am not a member of either community and have no grounds from which to speak.

Is he really transphobic? I got the sense that him repeating this multiple times was part of the routine. It would be nice for him to clarify because he certainly doesn't act homophobic and he was perfectly willing to become a mentor to a trans person and he deeply cared about her.

We watched the special last night and I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion.

[King Postwhore]

RJ is talking about before he became friends with the trabs comic.  We all have a bit of not understanding others who are not like that.

How we work on those phobias is what Chappelle is talking about.

[Ben_Jamin]

RJ is talking about before he became friends with the trabs comic.  We all have a bit of not understanding others who are not like that.

How we work on those phobias is what Chappelle is talking about.

That's not a phobia though. It's a misunderstanding of the unknown. The same way a lot of people misunderstand Natives, and others they have no idea about. Do people really fear Trans people? I don't think so. Some peoples perceptions on Trans is based solely on religion and cultures of those people, for reasons that I do not and will not know for it's their religion and cultures and I have respect for them to be able to continue to practice it.

I don't go and expect you to understand me off the bat. One way to know and understand is to view their dress style, then talk to them, maybe they'll tell you more about themselves and how they're a trans person.

My issue is with them assuming I automatically know they're a trans person. I have no idea who a stranger is, and I don't want to assume. Just the same way people assumed I was a girl because I had long hair when I was young. But, the difference is some guys told me to just say, "I'm a boy, want to see." I know it's sort of dumb, but it was just a phrase to be witty.

It's the same issue I have with some Gay Men as well. There are plenty of Gay people that do not follow or support the LGTBQ movement. For one thing, being Bi, I prefer masculine men, not feminine men, if I want feminine I would just find a women.

Not every person who is LGTBQ is following or agrees with the movement.

And that very community does what every culture does. It will reject their own people if they don't abide by their rules and regulations of their ideals and beliefs. Which is what happened with Dave Chappelle friend.


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dave-chappelle-daphne-dorman-comedy-special-the-closer-transphobic-172503363.html

Dorman’s sisters shared their support for Chappelle to The Daily Beast. Over text, Dorman’s sister Becky wrote to the outlet, “Daphne was in awe of Dave’s graciousness. She did not find his jokes rude, crude, off-coloring, off-putting, anything. She thought his jokes were funny. Daphne understood humor and comedy—she was not offended. Why would her family be offended?”

Yet, the LGTBQ assumed crap about Dave and caused all this unnecessary backlash, as their perspective was paraded on the news, while no one mentioned this important piece of information...A trans women found his jokes funny, while some did not.

[King Postwhore]

Fear or uncomfortable with is not your core beliefs.  It's semantics.  We all do it.  How we act to each other is what matters.

Dave showed he cared and can change.

[Ben_Jamin]

Fear or uncomfortable with is not your core beliefs.  It's semantics.  We all do it.  How we act to each other is what matters.

Dave showed he cared and can change.

It is in the Muslim world, it's a big part of their beliefs and I do not know why it is, as that is theirs to decide whether to hold true to it or do something that brings about change. For them, this is due to the influence of the outside world making their people assimilate into civilization and losing their customs of their people.

But, yeah. Dave himself went out to understand more and he did that by getting to know his fellow comedian who happens to be Trans. Education about how there are many different types of people in the world and respect is what should be taught.

[King Postwhore]

If you can change and accept others for who they are, that's what this world needs more of.

[Ben_Jamin]

If you can change and accept others for who they are, that's what this world needs more of.

Much easier said than done. It takes generations to change peoples perceptions.

There are still Christians and Catholics out there who view my Native Customs still as Pagan. The thing is, I know they do as that's their belief, but they tolerate it now because of this mindset of accepting people for who they are and not indoctrinating them into your ideals or beliefs.

Tolerance is what's needed as well. The tolerance to accept that there are people out there in the world who will not think or act the same as you. So don't be expecting others to be thinking or acting exactly like you.

A great example is Japan and their music fans compared to the South American music fans.

I like watching Comedians because their jokes are very geographic. One joke will get many laughs in one town, but in another it may get heckled. Especially in the bible belt and in the mormon territory. Comedians have to abide by rules in certain places like swearing and all that stuff.

But Comedians are able to say their say because that's what comedy is. Comedy is humiliation, entertainment, and a reflection of the world.

I highly believe that the creator is a comedian and the best form of happiness is laughter. Because there some hilarious coincidences that happen, especially when it is Ironic Humor.

[King Postwhore]

You are looking too much into it. Some comedians progress like Chappelle.   But 95% of comedy is just that.  Comedy. People look too far into it.

Also, comedians talk about what they know, not the unknown.   Life experiences. 

[Stadler]

RJ is talking about before he became friends with the trabs comic.  We all have a bit of not understanding others who are not like that.

How we work on those phobias is what Chappelle is talking about.

But “not understanding” and “-phobic” are not the same thing.  I’m NEVER going to fully understand being trans simply because my gender and sex are aligned.    I may or may not be trans-phobic (I don’t suspect I am but that’s not my call).  I would never claim to REALLY understand homosexuality and that experience but you’d be hard pressed to say I’m homophobic. 

[Ben_Jamin]

You are looking too much into it. Some comedians progress like Chappelle.   But 95% of comedy is just that.  Comedy. People look too far into it.

Also, comedians talk about what they know, not the unknown.   Life experiences.

Like the Trans employees of Netflix who are now fired because they looked too much into a comedy routine.

[Stadler]

If you can change and accept others for who they are, that's what this world needs more of.

In ALL directions.    Agreed. 

[King Postwhore]

You are looking too much into it. Some comedians progress like Chappelle.   But 95% of comedy is just that.  Comedy. People look too far into it.

Also, comedians talk about what they know, not the unknown.   Life experiences.

Like the Trans employees of Netflix who are now fired because they looked too much into a comedy routine.

That's on them. They took a stance against an employer.   Who brings the money in?

Who do you think they will back? 

[Ben_Jamin]

You are looking too much into it. Some comedians progress like Chappelle.   But 95% of comedy is just that.  Comedy. People look too far into it.

Also, comedians talk about what they know, not the unknown.   Life experiences.

Like the Trans employees of Netflix who are now fired because they looked too much into a comedy routine.

That's on them. They took a stance against an employer.   Who brings the money in?

Who do you think they will back?

No. They tried to get their employee to abide by their beliefs, and Netflix told them, we don't care. You put out private information into the public because of your moral anger, against company policy so There the door. I doubt they expected them to fire them and expected them to stand by their cause.

It's why I laugh because it's instant Karma for why you should not let anger and hate take over you.

[King Postwhore]

No.  Netflix did not. Netflix has a diverse amount of shows for all to see.  It doesn't force anyone to watch it.

What someone should do is decide I'm not watching that comedian.  It didn't force the employee to take a stand. They employee did that on their own accord. 

[kaos2900]

I've loved Chappelle since his show first hit Comedy Central years ago. I don't have much else to say that hasn't been said other than that if Netflix removes the special I'm cancelling my account.

[darkshade]

Another interesting thing about semantics and language.

"trans" fats are considered bad... because it causes health problems, because they're unnatural.
"cis" fats are considered good... because they're healthy, because they're natural.

So wouldn't that mean using the term "transgender" is a microaggression because being one is... "unnatural"?
Then one has to ask, isn't being 'transgender" unnatural and they should seek psychiatric help?
Would we accept people who identify as a glass of orange juice? or identify as a wombat?
Probably not, you and I would call them crazy, or at least say something like "they're not playing with a full deck"
Doesn't mean I'm afraid of them, or that I can't be friends with them.

and using the term "cis" for "cisgender" is often used these days as a derogatory term, especially if the person the term is being used against is perceived as a conservative, Republican, white, male, and/or a Trump supporter, and since 2021, regardless of vaccine status. Hell, even if you're none of those things but disagree with ANYTHING the LGBTQA community espouses, you get called cisgender if you are straight.

Yet, "cis" is the term for "good" and "natural"... Funny how those terms get switched around..
That would mean "transphobic" means 'afraid of bad, unnatural things.'
No one uses the term "cisphobic" strangely enough.

So when you think about it, these prefixes shouldn't be used to describe anyone's gender or sexual preferences.

[darkshade]

No.  Netflix did not. Netflix has a diverse amount of shows for all to see.

Yea, like a show where people get shot and killed on a survival game show because they're in desperate life situations and want to win the prize money.

You know, wholesome entertainment. but omgz Dave Chappelle told some raunchy jokes!!! The humanity!

[King Postwhore]

Let's not go to extremes.  That's how we got into this debate originally because of extremism.

Extremism from both sides are toxic honestly.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Another interesting thing about semantics and language.

"trans" fats are considered bad... because it causes health problems, because they're unnatural.
"cis" fats are considered good... because they're healthy, because they're natural.

So wouldn't that mean using the term "transgender" is a microaggression because being one is... "unnatural"?
Then one has to ask, isn't being 'transgender" unnatural and they should seek psychiatric help?
Would we accept people who identify as a glass of orange juice? or identify as a wombat?
Probably not, you and I would call them crazy, or at least say something like "they're not playing with a full deck"
Doesn't mean I'm afraid of them, or that I can't be friends with them.

and using the term "cis" for "cisgender" is often used these days as a derogatory term, especially if the person the term is being used against is perceived as a conservative, Republican, white, male, and/or a Trump supporter, and since 2021, regardless of vaccine status. Hell, even if you're none of those things but disagree with ANYTHING the LGBTQA community espouses, you get called cisgender if you are straight.

Yet, "cis" is the term for "good" and "natural"... Funny how those terms get switched around..
That would mean "transphobic" means 'afraid of bad, unnatural things.'
No one uses the term "cisphobic" strangely enough.

So when you think about it, these prefixes shouldn't be used to describe anyone's gender or sexual preferences.

Your entire argument on why it's ok for you to call transgender people crazy and unnatural is based on a dumb and incorrect inference on what the prefixes cis and trans mean.

[darkshade]

Another interesting thing about semantics and language.

"trans" fats are considered bad... because it causes health problems, because they're unnatural.
"cis" fats are considered good... because they're healthy, because they're natural.

So wouldn't that mean using the term "transgender" is a microaggression because being one is... "unnatural"?
Then one has to ask, isn't being 'transgender" unnatural and they should seek psychiatric help?
Would we accept people who identify as a glass of orange juice? or identify as a wombat?
Probably not, you and I would call them crazy, or at least say something like "they're not playing with a full deck"
Doesn't mean I'm afraid of them, or that I can't be friends with them.

and using the term "cis" for "cisgender" is often used these days as a derogatory term, especially if the person the term is being used against is perceived as a conservative, Republican, white, male, and/or a Trump supporter, and since 2021, regardless of vaccine status. Hell, even if you're none of those things but disagree with ANYTHING the LGBTQA community espouses, you get called cisgender if you are straight.

Yet, "cis" is the term for "good" and "natural"... Funny how those terms get switched around..
That would mean "transphobic" means 'afraid of bad, unnatural things.'
No one uses the term "cisphobic" strangely enough.

So when you think about it, these prefixes shouldn't be used to describe anyone's gender or sexual preferences.

Your entire argument on why it's ok for you to call transgender people crazy and unnatural is based on a dumb and incorrect inference on what the prefixes cis and trans mean.

I didn't say it's ok to call transgender people 'crazy' and 'unnatural'.

The argument is using these terms, in a language we've all agreed on using, are terms that shouldn't be used to describe them in the first place, because the topic of semantics came up in this thread, and I pointed out more hypocrisies of the usage of those terms.

Despite that, are you saying only cis gendered people can be crazy? or racist? or phobic of other groups of people different from themselves? Are these people not human?
Are you saying there are no crazy people in the LGBTQA community at large?

"trans" and "cis" are only categorized as bad and good respectively to how the chemical compounds affect the human body. Should we change the term "trans fat" to something else, so that "trans" doesn't carry any negative connotation? Why are they reversed for people's sexual identities when compared to molecular structure?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I'm clearly not saying that, and it's unclear why you would expect me to engage with such blatantly disingenuous bait.