Author Topic: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2  (Read 66392 times)

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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2415 on: March 14, 2019, 01:26:05 PM »
Bosk, I think you need to cite from where you think the majority of people dislike her, especially because a lot of that is mixed up with idiots who blew her earlier comments out of proportion. Facebook shows lots of people loved her. My perception is definitely way different than yours.

No, actually I don't "need" to at all  I don't feel any need to justify my own opinion of the film by trying to come up with numbers.  You are conflating two things.  I gave my own opinion on the movie, and gave a pretty detailed explanation for why I feel that way.  You disagree?  Cool.  :tup  You have every right, and I respect that.  And I don't feel the need to try to somehow prove that you are wrong or that your opinion is not justified.  It's your opinion.  After letting this movie sink in, I am of the opinion that I will likely rank this at or near the bottom of the MCU releases.  At least, that's where I am at the moment.  Not sure why that seems to bother some people. 

Separately, I raised my observation that the majority of reviews and online chatter about the film seems to be negative rather than positive.  That's a separate issue.  And I don't feel the "need" to justify that either.  It is what it is.  And, yes, there is also a lot of positive about it too.  And that's cool.  My sense from what I have seen is that, while there is a lot of positive, there seems to be more negative (or at the very least, underwhelmed).  That's all.  Take a scroll through a Google search of review or through the reviews showing up on YouTube, and you'll see a similar thing.  Again, not sure what the fuss is about that.

Dude I wasn't trying to be rude or argumentative. Omg.  :(
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2416 on: March 14, 2019, 01:39:58 PM »
No biggie.  We're still besties. 

Oh, and I also meant to respond to what you posted about a lot of the negative reviews being tied up with those who blew her prior comments out of proportion.  Yeah, I agree with that.  I have a post a few pages back where I was basically defending the film (pre-release) and defending her comments as being largely taken out of context.  I mean, if people still want to disagree with where she is coming from, that's fine.  But the problem is, a lot of the people reacting were reacting to an exaggerated and incorrect interpretation of what she said.  They just missed the point.  So, yeah, I'm largely disregarding that sort of thing.

And, again, I'm not citing negative reviews or negative opinions to try to say, "Hey, look at me--MY opinion is obviously correct and superior, and everybody that matters agrees with me, so I MUST be right!"  Nah.  Just saying that I was disappointed and, sadly, there seem to be a lot of people who feel that way, for one reason or another.  It's still a "good" movie.  I was listening to a review yesterday afternoon that was cracking me up because the dude was SO over the top in his criticism.  He gave the film a 2 out of 10, and was SO offbase on so many of his criticisms.  I can't agree with opinions that extreme.  Overall, as I said in my initial post after seeing it, I like it, and I think it moved the ball in terms of advancing the overall MCU storyline.  But at the same time, I just think it failed on a lot of fronts, and I have come to expect better.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2417 on: March 14, 2019, 02:02:09 PM »
Yes, perhaps there are a lot of people who agree with you. But that does not, however, mean that the majority of people who saw the movie disliked it. The implication, whether you meant it or not, was that of all the people on planet Earth who saw the movie, most disliked it. There is simply no way for you to know that. Your initial post was speaking on others behalf, again, whether you meant to or not, you did. Saying "we" instead of "I" is what made it come across that way.

And, you're right, you don't have to prove anything to anyone, or justify your opinion on the movie to us. But, by the same token, don't expect to be able to make wild, generalized claims, without someone calling you out on it, and asking you what you're basing it on. Usually, when people generalize and make big claims like that (assuming everyone agrees with them), whenever someone asks them what their source is, they take the attitude of "I don't have to prove anything to you". That makes it clear that either A) you don't have anything objective to base your claim on, or B) you know deep down inside that you can't back it up, and are instead just trying to justify and validate your opinion, which you don't have to do anyway.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2418 on: March 14, 2019, 02:06:10 PM »
Yes, and several posts ago, I did explain and provide justification for the one small part of the post where I used "we," and it has NOTHING to do with any of the points you have raised since then.  If you are trying to "call me out," you are doing a really ineffective job of it because you continue to illustrate that you have no idea what I actually said.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2419 on: March 14, 2019, 02:08:36 PM »
Well, no, sorry, but you are completely off.  And while I have tried to be polite up to this point, you are completely misreading my post.  The "we" does not apply to what you are trying to apply it to, and I already explained that.  Your reading comprehension skills are decidedly lacking if you are taking that away from what I wrote.  If you can't handle someone else having an opinion that differs from yours, you aren't getting the point of a "discussion forum," emphasis on the word "discussion."

Bosk, I would advise you to check your attitude. There is absolutely no reason for you to insult me, saying my reading comprehension skills are off. This is completely unprofessional, and uncalled for. Just because you are a forum moderator, doesn't mean you are exempt from the forum rules. My reading comprehension skills are just fine. You posted something, speaking in generalities, saying the majority of people who saw the film are displeased. I simply said you are assuming that, and asked you what you are basing your claim on. That is all. If you don't like being called out on something like that, then don't do it. Simple as that. And, if you don't understand the point I was trying to convey, then there's no reason for me to waste anymore of my time trying to explain it to you. What you did was classic "the way I feel is the way everyone feels, and my opinion is right". I'm sorry, but that is simply not okay. I expect an apology from you, for insulting me, saying my reading comprehension skills are off.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2420 on: March 14, 2019, 02:12:54 PM »
Yes, and several posts ago, I did explain and provide justification for the one small part of the post where I used "we," and it has NOTHING to do with any of the points you have raised since then.  If you are trying to "call me out," you are doing a really ineffective job of it because you continue to illustrate that you have no idea what I actually said.

Dude, you were speaking for others in that initial post, simple as that. Deny it all you want, but you were. You are trying to backtrack now, after being called out on it, and act like you didn't, but you did. The fact is you have no objective, conclusive evidence to support your claim that the majority of viewers disliked it. You just don't. You clearly didn't like me saying you should never speak on the behalf of others, and instead should let people speak for themselves. I'm done arguing with you; it's clear that it's just a power trip with you, and you probably wouldn't ever own up to making a mistake, since you're a forum moderator.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2421 on: March 14, 2019, 02:14:01 PM »
Bosk said "we should have liked her"

Is that not true? He didn't say "we didn't like her". We SHOULD like the main hero. I have no idea why this is being blown up.


Both of you guys just let it go. Good Lord.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2422 on: March 14, 2019, 02:15:04 PM »
What you did was classic "the way I feel is the way everyone feels, and my opinion is right".

Nope.  Again, that is completely incorrect, and that has been explained several times now.  And, no, correcting you for misunderstanding my posts is not "insulting."  You clearly do not understand what I said.  And you continue to repeat it and insist that I said something different.  That's on you.  And I will continue to set the record straight when someone insists on attributing something to me that I didn't say.  Playing the "you are a moderator, so you aren't allowed to hurt my feelings" card is just silly.  People have opinions that different from yours.  Deal with it.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2423 on: March 14, 2019, 02:16:42 PM »
Bosk said "we should have liked her"

Is that not true? He didn't say "we didn't like her". We SHOULD like the main hero. I have no idea why this is being blown up.


Both of you guys just let it go. Good Lord.

The point is he shouldn't be speaking for others, period. Everyone can have their own opinion, and that's fine. But when you start talking like everyone else agrees with you, don't get annoyed when someone asks you "Oh really, what's your source?". It's pretty common sense... if you make generalized claims and assumptions, eventually someone is going to disagree, and ask you what you are basing it on. So, the way to avoid that, is to speak for YOURSELF, and don't assume that the "majority" of viewers disliked it.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2424 on: March 14, 2019, 02:17:59 PM »
But he wasn't. He was stating a general movie rule. We SHOULD like our main heroes, unless we're not supposed to for whatever reason.

I honestly did not see where he spoke for everyone else.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2425 on: March 14, 2019, 02:21:31 PM »
What you did was classic "the way I feel is the way everyone feels, and my opinion is right".

Nope.  Again, that is completely incorrect, and that has been explained several times now.  And, no, correcting you for misunderstanding my posts is not "insulting."  You clearly do not understand what I said.  And you continue to repeat it and insist that I said something different.  That's on you.  And I will continue to set the record straight when someone insists on attributing something to me that I didn't say.  Playing the "you are a moderator, so you aren't allowed to hurt my feelings" card is just silly.  People have opinions that different from yours.  Deal with it.

You weren't correcting me. You were implying that my reading comprehension skills are off, and that is insulting. If you don't see how that is insulting to say to someone, then I have nothing else to say to you. You clearly are demonstrating that, as a forum administrator, you think you are exempt from the rules, and can somehow be rude and insulting to others, when all they did was say, hey, you shouldn't speak for others, and what is your source?
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2426 on: March 14, 2019, 02:24:23 PM »
People have opinions that different from yours.  Deal with it.

I don't have to deal with anything. I have no problem with you have a differing opinion. What I have a problem with, however, is when someone makes wild, generalized claims, and then when they are politely asked what their source is, or how is it they could possibly know whether or not most people disliked it, that person then getting annoyed, and insulting my reading comprehension skills. As as a forum administrator, this is completely unprofessional, and unacceptable.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2427 on: March 14, 2019, 02:31:31 PM »
When you continue to insist on putting words into people's mouths that they never said, that is, by definition a failure of comprehension.  I told you what I actually did say.  Adami did the same.  You insist that I said something different.  Sorry, but you aren't the authority on what I said or what I meant.  And as you continue to put words into my mouth that I never said, I will continue to correct you.  And correcting you when you puts words into my mouth is not a violation of the forum rules.1



1.  And, by the way, hate to break it to you, but yeah, being the forum admin kind of actually does make one exempt from the rules.  Sorry you don't like that.  But when you're in someone else's house, they kinda get to make, interpret, and enforce the rules how they see fit.  But that doesn't really have anything to do with what we're talking about.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2428 on: March 14, 2019, 02:36:01 PM »
I will pay a dollar to the first one of you who takes this to PM's so we can get back to discussing how Carol is going to punch Thanos and ruin Marvel.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2429 on: March 14, 2019, 02:40:29 PM »
...so we can get back to discussing how Carol is going to punch Thanos and ruin Marvel.

Were we doing that?  I'm in!

In all seriousness, I'm not expecting that.  I mean, I kinda am expecting her to punch Thanos.  But...I just don't think it is going to really be all about Avengers+CM vs. Thanos.  I think there is going to be some sort of twist that we aren't expecting that is going to make it something different. 
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2430 on: March 14, 2019, 02:45:55 PM »
Oh totally. I've just read....some....since I'm not allowed to make judgments of quantity here.....discussion about how Carol will ruin Endgame because she'll be a Deus Ex Machina and just save the day. Silly, but people seem to still be discussing it.


Also, one other issue I've seen discussed (I'm gonna sadly pull a Stadler here and argue against a point I've only read off this board) is...well two issues....is that Nick Fury is very different from the other MCU movies, and why did he never mention this stuff before hand?

1) People change over the course of 15 years or whatever it was. If you honestly expect someone starting in a thing like SHIELD to be the same as 15 years later as the head of SHIELD, then you be wrong.

2) Nick Fury keeps everything a secret. Him never saying a thing about Carol, or Skrulls, or aliens, or whatever is very much in character for him.
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Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2431 on: March 14, 2019, 02:46:45 PM »
Myself, my wife, and my son all found Captain Marvel quite likable, and not at all stiff. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2432 on: March 14, 2019, 02:52:56 PM »
Also, one other issue I've seen discussed (I'm gonna sadly pull a Stadler here and argue against a point I've only read off this board) is...well two issues....is that Nick Fury is very different from the other MCU movies, and why did he never mention this stuff before hand?

1) People change over the course of 15 years or whatever it was. If you honestly expect someone starting in a thing like SHIELD to be the same as 15 years later as the head of SHIELD, then you be wrong.

2) Nick Fury keeps everything a secret. Him never saying a thing about Carol, or Skrulls, or aliens, or whatever is very much in character for him.

I can see both sides of that.  On one hand, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said.  On the other hand, is it pretty obvious that they had no idea about any of this as they were writing Nick Fury over the last decade plus and retconned all of that in to fit this film and where the MCU is going?  Yeah, I think that is probably also pretty obviously true.  But I don't think either of those things matter.  The issue is whether they end up fitting together in a reasonably satisfying way.  I think they do. 

Same with the eye thing, right?  People are saying that if you take the whole "the last time I trusted somebody, I lost an eye!" line completely literally and at face value, then what they presented in CM contradicts that.  Well, no, not really.  Fury is kind of Cagey about a LOT of things he says, and he has shown that he is prone to exaggeration.  The Flerken scratching him is not inconsistent with what he was saying if you give some license for how the character thinks and talks, and how people talk in general.  Is this what the writers of that line originally had in mind?  Heck no!  Total retcon!  But who cares?  It fits well enough (even if I happen to think it was REALLY dumb in the execution).
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2433 on: March 14, 2019, 02:57:50 PM »
I agree with those who thought Captain Marvel was a bit stiff and wooden, but not as bad as Thor was in his first few appearances. Overall, I liked the character and liked the movie. It makes sense that she was a but stiff given that she's had 6 years of being taught to suppress her emotions.

Oh totally. I've just read....some....since I'm not allowed to make judgments of quantity here.....discussion about how Carol will ruin Endgame because she'll be a Deus Ex Machina and just save the day. Silly, but people seem to still be discussing it.
If we go through three hours of planning, time travel, alternate dimensions, getting the team back together, and whatever else they pull out, only to have Captain Marvel save the day with one huge photon blast, that would be pretty disappointing. I don't think that will be the case though.

I do think it becomes a small problem when some superheros are so much more powerful than others. Falcon, Ronin, Black Widow, etc who are basically just regular humans with good fighting skills become almost useless in a world with Captain Marvel to save the day.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2434 on: March 14, 2019, 03:07:45 PM »
I agree with those who thought Captain Marvel was a bit stiff and wooden, but not as bad as Thor was in his first few appearances. Overall, I liked the character and liked the movie. It makes sense that she was a but stiff given that she's had 6 years of being taught to suppress her emotions.

Yeah, you know, you raise an interesting point.  I don't disagree with what you are saying.  And I think there are other viable explanations for that stiffness/woodenness as well.  I can rationally explain why she should come across that way.  But the thing is, while I can intellectually justify it, it still felt artificial to me.  On an emotional level, I just feel like it didn't work, and I've seen that feeling echoed elsewhere too.  Again, not trying to discount what you are saying.  But my take on it was a little bit different.
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Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2435 on: March 14, 2019, 08:50:35 PM »
I am coming back from watching CM with my older son and wife, and we ALL loved it!
I think they did really good with the characters (all of them).

--

Now we can't wait to watch Endgame

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2436 on: March 14, 2019, 10:03:03 PM »

Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2437 on: March 15, 2019, 01:11:34 PM »
Well, much to my surprise, apparently James Gunn has been rehired by Disney to direct Guardian's 3.

Probably the best decision they can make, PR wise, even though I think someone else should direct it. Though I thought that before he was fired. Love his take on (most of) the characters, but not a fan of how he structured the two movies or how he handled the villains. Ah well. Still good news.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2438 on: March 15, 2019, 01:24:50 PM »
There are a LOT of things about James Gunn that bother me.  But the firing itself bothered me, simply because I think his comments, while inflammatory and offensive were both taken out of context AND so long ago that they were irrelevant.  And while there are some things about the Guardians movies specifically that really bother me, I can also applaud a lot of what he did.  I don't think I would have even cared about a Guardians of the Galaxy film and its characters if done differently than what he did, and I know I am far from alone in that.  I remember that when the word broke that the MCU was doing Guardians of the Galaxy, a LOT of people were perplexed and wondering why Marvel would even bother with such B-list characters that most people outside the die-hards have never heard of. 

So, yeah, overall, I feel like this is good news for GG3.
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2439 on: March 15, 2019, 01:52:41 PM »
ADAM WARLOOOOOOCK!!!

So happy he's back, and like I shouted above, I hope Adam Warlock finally makes his appearance in the MCU since it was hinted at the end of 2. 2 had problems and I'm always exhausted by the end but nobody else deserves to direct the third one. Good on Disney.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2440 on: March 15, 2019, 02:53:40 PM »
This is good news, not just because I like the GotG movies and how Gunn has done them so far, but because maybe, just maybe, it's the start of things swinging back toward sanity again.

Racist bigoted assholes, sexual predators, or other lowlifes, they can all go to hell and if their careers go to shit once their nature is revealed, then I'm okay with that.  But if someone said something years ago, and it's pretty well documented that they're not like that anymore, or things were taken out of context or something, then maybe give them a break, you know?  This shit where people's lives and/or careers are in ruins over the slightest thing is kind of getting out of hand.

Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2441 on: March 15, 2019, 02:53:54 PM »
ADAM WARLOOOOOOCK!!!

So happy he's back, and like I shouted above, I hope Adam Warlock finally makes his appearance in the MCU since it was hinted at the end of 2. 2 had problems and I'm always exhausted by the end but nobody else deserves to direct the third one. Good on Disney.

Indeed. My only fear is that, like almost everything else in his movies, he'll be played for laughs. There are few characters as serious as Adam Warlock.


Except Drax, who  has also been turned into a one note joke. A perfectly executed one note joke, but still.
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2442 on: March 15, 2019, 03:13:44 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if he is treated as the male Captain Marvel, ie stoic and more stoic :) I certainly hope they don't try to turn him into comic relief.

I could do with less blatant comic relief from Drax as well, but... not gonna lie, "I have huge turds" still makes me laugh.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2443 on: March 15, 2019, 03:45:08 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if he is treated as the male Captain Marvel, ie stoic and more stoic :) I certainly hope they don't try to turn him into comic relief.

I could do with less blatant comic relief from Drax as well, but... not gonna lie, "I have huge turds" still makes me laugh.

Yea, it's actually annoying. I hate Drax being a joke, but god damn is he funny.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2444 on: March 15, 2019, 03:46:56 PM »
:lol I can understand that. As someone who's never read the comics, I love Drax. But I can totally get the ambivalence of finding movie Drax hilarious while at the same time disliking how the adaptation from comics Drax.

Offline Kattelox

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2445 on: March 15, 2019, 04:12:29 PM »
Which reminds me, I think it was just right in Infinity War, since there was much less time to focus on Drax. His whole invisibility bit and comments about Thor got massive laughs out of the audience.

I also wonder if they're going to be able to bring everybody back before finishing off Thanos, and if so, if Drax is going to have a moment to have a final word with Thanos, given his whole family was, you know, killed by him.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2446 on: March 15, 2019, 04:19:16 PM »
I'm happy about this decision, both because I enjoyed the GOTG movies, and because firing him was a stupid fucking move in the first place.

I remember before this whole thing went down, there was talk about how Gunn was supposed to be overseeing the whole 'cosmic' side of the MCU, I wonder if that's still the case?
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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2447 on: March 15, 2019, 05:30:48 PM »
ADAM WARLOOOOOOCK!!!

That's actually splendid. Can we hope for some Pip the Troll?

Offline Ninjabait

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2448 on: March 15, 2019, 10:12:38 PM »
I went to see Captain Marvel this evening. I honestly liked it a lot. It's a charming, fun movie that has a good tonal balance all the way through it. It's one of the better hero introductory movies, floating around Spidey and Dr. Strange in my MCU rankings. Is it as good as, say, Avengers or Black Panther or Captain America 2/3? Nah. Is it good? Yeah. Mostly spoiler free thoughts below:

Pros:
* The treatment of the Skrulls in the movie was really nice and genuinely caught me off guard. General Talos was one of the best parts of the movie.
* Brie Larson knocks it out of the park and it felt like she had great chemistry with nearly everyone.
* Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers feels like a combination of some of the more interesting traits of Thor, Cap, and Iron Man. From how I saw her in the movie, she feels like a good fit to "lead" the MCU from this point on.
* The jokes they gave her were on point.
* The memory dive scene from the beginning was really cool
* Nick Fury was great. His jokes were good. The spy stuff we saw him doing was pretty good. The teasing about his eye was good.
* Samuel L. Jackson and Brie Larson have just killer chemistry.
* The one use of the Avengers theme in this movie. Dang, that was on point.
* The final post-credits scene. I'm still processing that. What even was that?
* The mid credits scene was good in a different way.
* The were some subtle references to other MCU films. Like one of the Kree we see in the movie was in Guardians of the Galaxy.
* The space battles. Aw yiss.
* Goose.

Cons:
* Having watched Agents of Shield made some of the twists in the film really obvious
* I know the film was mostly centered around Danvers and Fury, but Yon-Rogg (Jude Law) and Coulson felt really underutilized.
* Speaking of Yon-Rogg, his final scene was a little underwhelming.
* Ronan the Accuser's final line being rendered moot by him getting exploded in Guardians.
* As usual, the score for the movie is rather unremarkable.

Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2449 on: March 16, 2019, 08:56:25 AM »
Continuing my Marvel re-watch, last night was The Incredible Hulk.

You know, this movie gets a lot of hate, but it's actually pretty damn good. I wonder if the dislike is mostly because of the recast, causing this movie to feel unconnected to anything. The final fight is a bit meh, but the rest of the movie is good. Pretty good directing, good acting, script was good, etc. I don't see where the hate comes from, other than it feeling disconnected.

Iron Man II is tomorrow.
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