Author Topic: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)  (Read 248547 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2380 on: March 13, 2019, 08:58:07 AM »
@King:  That'll work.  ;)
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2381 on: March 13, 2019, 09:29:41 AM »
Couple other things I enjoyed about Captain Marvel were no neck snappings, impalements, or lame love story angle.

Offline ariich

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2382 on: March 13, 2019, 09:33:26 AM »
I kinda of resent the narrative I see in the vast majority of articles about CM saying that the box office numbers now finally PROVE that people will turn out for a female led movie.  I don't think that any but a small minority needed any "proof."  Sure, there is a small vocal minority that will hate on any female led movie and try to write it off as radical feminism.  And sure, there is a vocal minority on the other side that screams that we "need" female-led movies because girls can't possibly look at guys as positive role models.  But in the middle, I think the vast majority of us just want a good movie and could not care less whether the primary protagonist is a man or a woman.  We'll go see it because the MCU continues to gain momentum by putting out fun movies that, 21 films in, continue to weave together as part of a huge tapestry.  And we'll enjoy it, not because CM is a woman, but because it's a good film.  I think it insults the integrity of Larson's performance and insults the intelligence of most moviegoers to make it about her being a woman rather than the movie being a good movie.

/rant
As I understand it, the proof isn't for audiences but for film studio execs who have typically been reluctant to invest in big budget female-led films on the basis that they wouldn't attract such big audiences. I agree that the general public (notwithstanding a minority of trolls) know this already but studio execs are still catching up.
OK, but studio execs aren't some alien species from another planet.  They are human too and should know what the rest of us know, which is that we don't care.  Give us a good film, and we don't care if the star is man, woman, or cat.

Agreed, sadly it's been on record that, in the past, they did not feel that way. Glad they are moving away from that.
Indeed, there's definitely been a lot of progress.

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2383 on: March 14, 2019, 06:23:10 AM »
New Endgame trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMBFSGVi1c

Giggity.  Only one 'reveal' - not like it was going to be a surprise though.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2384 on: March 14, 2019, 06:46:40 AM »
New Endgame trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMBFSGVi1c

Giggity.  Only one 'reveal' - not like it was going to be a surprise though.

 :omg: :o :metal

Offline The Walrus

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2385 on: March 14, 2019, 06:55:59 AM »
Captain Larson  :heart :heart  :heart
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2387 on: March 14, 2019, 08:37:50 AM »
Very cool trailer. Love how it's entirely about mood and they are holding almost everything back. Please continue this trend, and please do not release 20 minutes of battle sequences in TV spots.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2388 on: March 14, 2019, 08:45:26 AM »
New Endgame trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMBFSGVi1c

Giggity.  Only one 'reveal' - not like it was going to be a surprise though.

Cool trailer.  But I'm not really sure that counts as a "reveal."  It's established in the CM end credits scene, so...

But it IS kind of disappointing that, at least from the VERY brief clip in the trailer, Carol seems just as wooden and unlikable as she did in her own movie.  And bringing me back to the CM film, the longer it sets with me, the less I like it.  Now that the initial hype is wearing off, there just isn't a whole lot there.  What I liked mostly just boiled down to it being part of the MCU and feeling like it fit in as yet another piece of the overall MCU storyline.  Other than that and a few isolated positives, it really didn't do anything to make me like it.  And I think it significant that if you go character-by-character, there really isn't much there either.  In fact, let's do that:

-Carol:  We should have liked her, or at least been able to sympathize with her more.  She was okay.  But I think we should come away from a film feeling like our main character, the film's protagonist, and from every indication the one who is going to bear the Marvel standard going forward, needs to be a lot more than that.  And the pieces were there for us to connect with her.  But...nothing was ever really developed.
-Fury:  The MCU Fury has been pretty cool at times.  Often he's just decent.  This version of him really did nothing.  He was just a foil for CM.  And he was, more or less, and idiot.  I'm not sure if this was poor writing or poor directing.  But I have long been of the belief that Jackson NEEDS a good director to shine.  With a good director, he can be absolutely incredible.  Without one, he can be, at best, a wooden caricature of himself.  This performance was closer to the latter.
-Colson:  The awful CGI aside, Colson brought nothing to the table.  And him going so severely off script as an agent was...at best not believable.  Sure, Agents of SHIELD is basically about him doing just that.  But the whole point of that is that he has been relegated to being the leader of an outlaw agency who are, often times, the only hope of earth in the face of dire threats nobody is even aware of.  He has a reputation of going off script because he's been forced to abandon the "by-the-book" government playbook.  He can't be that as a brand new agent.  It's just not believable.
-Maria:  She's okay.  Some of her lines are pretty predictable, and it's pretty clear that she is there merely as a plot device.  I guess she's serviceable in that role.
-Monica:  She's great!  She might even be the best character in the film.  ...and to say that of such a minor character is kind of a problem.
-The Skrulls:  Other than Talos, I couldn't tell you, because he is the only one given any personality.  And, I guess that's fine.  He is such a strong character and does such a fine job that we can sympathize with the entire Skrull race simply through him.  That works.  Oh, and now that we're on him, I guess I was a bit premature in declaring Monica as perhaps the best character.  It is clearly Talos by a country mile.
-Star Force:  Unfortunately, we only really get to know Yon-Rogg in any kind of depth.  And he leaves a lot to be desired.  There isn't really one main villain.  It's basically the Kree race as a whole.  But he is the face of that and drives the plot.  He is probably far and away the least effective Marvel villain yet.  I got nothing from him at all.  I didn't like him.  But it had nothing to do with him being an effective villain.  My dislike was simply because there wasn't anything to him.  He was just a manipulative dude with nothing very likable about him.  As for the other members of the team, Korath was a waste.  We didn't really learn much about him.  He was cool merely because, with less screen time AND dialog, Guardians already set him up to be pretty cool.  Min-Erva was a cold-blooded elite military weapons specialist type.  But, again, she was merely a "type" and not a character with any depth.  The rest were just...there.
-Goose:  Made for some good comedy moments.  But after the initial "Yes!  Goose really IS a flerken!" wears off, there really isn't much there.
-Mar-Vell:  I'm not angry about the the gender swap, as some are.  But it was pretty pointless.  Mar-Vell/Lawson didn't need to be a woman for any good reason.  So why pull a switch if it isn't going to serve a purpose?  As an aside, I'm also not too upset that she wasn't actually the first Captain Marvel, and I'm okay that this is a completely different version of the character.  Marvel has been taking liberties with its MCU and deviated from the comics since day 1, and it has largely worked.  That's fine.  But as for the character herself, she was wooden and really didn't do anything.  She should have been the cool, almost-revered mentor figure.  But as with pretty much all the others, she fell flat.

That last description is actually pretty apt for virtually all the characters.  They all for the most part just fell flat.  There wasn't anything there.  And while this is "just a superhero movie," that's a problem.  People went out and saw it because it is MCU.  And because it is the connective tissue between Avengers 3 and 4.  But beyond that, there just isn't any substance to it.  And that's a shame, because if it foreshadows the future of the MCU, it means that we're pretty much at the end of an era as far as I'm concerned.  It was an era of overall greatness.  But I guess all good things must end.

I think I had said earlier that I was in the 5 or 6 out of 10 realm if I were to rate it.  After letting it sit with me a bit, I think I'm at a 5.  Maybe a repeat view will boost it a bit.  But that's where I am right now.  As it stands, unless I change my mind and pick it up just for completeness, this is likely to be the first MCU film that I don't buy.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2389 on: March 14, 2019, 08:58:45 AM »
You have some good points there, and as far as being "the end of an era" that is totally the truth - people like Downey, Evans, Hemsworth are irreplaceable when it comes to the charismatic glue that plays a large part in holding the MCU together and at such a high standard. I'm not interested in trying to getting to know dozens of new minor characters, all my favorites from the comics have already been given life.

Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2390 on: March 14, 2019, 09:05:34 AM »
All fair points. Even though I liked the movie quite a bit (still a 6.5) I can't disagree with much of that.

It seems the writers/directors just didn't have a clear vision of Carol Danvers. I can't totally blame them. Her comics counterpart isn't much different. She is very strong, stoic, rigid, and so forth in the comics. She's the person that tells Iron Man to shut up when he's cracking wise. Problem is, that doesn't translate to a fun movie all that well. They needed to give her some personality. In the comics, she's at her best (personality wise) when she's just being herself with Jessica Drew or something, and the movie tried to do that a bit with Monica and Maria but ultimately had 400 other things to do and didn't spend much time with it.

You need a character that people WANT to hang out with, essentially. I don't have a strong desire to meet or hang out with Captain Marvel.

That said, her scene in the Endgame trailer is like 4 seconds long, so I hope people don't read much into it. Though, ultimately, they will because it's a bad idea to put a scene of her being stoic in right after people complain that she's too stoic.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2391 on: March 14, 2019, 09:23:46 AM »
Yeah, I'm with you, Adami.  And she really WAS supposed to be stoic, both as a military person and as a Kree Warrior.  But you are right that it is REALLY hard to make that translate into a likeable character.  But on top of that, it was also fairly clear that they weren't entirely sure what they wanted the character to be.  She also had a lot going on that really could have made her sympathetic.  But that fell flat too.  I dunno.  At the end of the day, when I take a cold, disconnected survey of the story itself, I see the makings of a character arc.  I can tell you exactly what the character journey of the film was.  There definitely was an arc there.  But at the end of the day, I just didn't feel any of it.  I saw it.  But I didn't feel it.  I just didn't care.  Maybe that's on me.  But it's not like I went into the movie with an ax to grind and not wanting to care.  I had an open mind and actually expected to be able to connect with it.  But the film didn't do itself any favors and help me to, you know?
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2392 on: March 14, 2019, 09:27:01 AM »
Wooden and unlikable? We saw very different movies. T'Challa is more wooden than her
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2393 on: March 14, 2019, 09:32:44 AM »
Also, when Thor called for (whatever new hammer is called...StormBreaker?) did anyone else half expect Carol to catch it?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2394 on: March 14, 2019, 09:43:12 AM »
Wooden and unlikable? We saw very different movies. T'Challa is more wooden than her

Oh, come on now.  She couldn't have been more wooden and unlikable if she was singing Draconian Love.

But in all seriousness, I'm not going to disagree with you too much on T'Challa (other than perhaps just the degree of woodenness, since I wouldn't say he was "more"; but they are definitely in the same tier as far as I'm concerned).

Also, when Thor called for (whatever new hammer is called...StormBreaker?) did anyone else half expect Carol to catch it?

:lol  Yes. 
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2395 on: March 14, 2019, 09:49:27 AM »
I just totally disagree with pretty much everything in that post about the Captain Marvel film. Oh well. I personally can't wait to see what they do with her. I also don't see why being stoic is a bad thing. Not everybody can or should be Peter Parker or Quill. I thought they did a fantastic job with Carol Danvers. Shrug...
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2396 on: March 14, 2019, 10:03:04 AM »
I also don't see why being stoic is a bad thing.

In and of itself, it's not a "bad" thing.  But can have the effect of leaving little room for things we as an audience can actually latch onto and sympathize with.  And with this film, I feel that they severely failed to fill in those gaps.  So we got a protagonist that was stoic and...nothing else.  No depth.  No warmth.  No emotion.  Nothing.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:25:02 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2397 on: March 14, 2019, 10:04:57 AM »
Exactly.

Captain America is stoic. VERY stoic. Yet he is also very vulnerable and shows a wide range of emotions.

Danvers was stoic. She started off the movie as a tough as nails warrior and ended the movie as a tough as nails warrior. There was never a moment where her tough as nails warrior aspect was in doubt or challenged. Thor is stoic (or was) and his entire first movie was him having to earn back that element to himself. That's what makes an arc. Carol just didn't have one. Not Larson's fault. I blame the writers.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2398 on: March 14, 2019, 11:04:36 AM »
New Endgame trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMBFSGVi1c

Giggity.  Only one 'reveal' - not like it was going to be a surprise though.

 :metal :metal :metal :metal

Gotta go see Capt. Marvel this weekend.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2399 on: March 14, 2019, 11:16:15 AM »
New Endgame trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMBFSGVi1c

Giggity.  Only one 'reveal' - not like it was going to be a surprise though.

Cool trailer.  But I'm not really sure that counts as a "reveal."  It's established in the CM end credits scene, so...

Actually, I was referring to Stark/Nebula being with the gang walking across the hangar.  Since they've spent a good chunk of time in each trailer on Tony as 'dead man floating' - while we obviously know that he'll survive - those were the first clips of him/Nebula outside of the ship.

And those uni's.  That'll take some getting used to.  They must be purpose built for something - perhaps traveling into the quantum realm?

And yes, I did expect something to happen with Carol grabbing Stormbreaker - though I don't remember if Eitri's speech established that only the "worthy" can lift it... and I don't remember if that's an aspect of it from the comics or not.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2400 on: March 14, 2019, 11:24:57 AM »
Actually, I was referring to Stark/Nebula being with the gang walking across the hangar.  Since they've spent a good chunk of time in each trailer on Tony as 'dead man floating' - while we obviously know that he'll survive - those were the first clips of him/Nebula outside of the ship.

Oh, haha!  Yeah, I gotcha. 

And those uni's.  That'll take some getting used to.  They must be purpose built for something - perhaps traveling into the quantum realm?

Yeah, that's been the speculation from day 1.  Seems pretty likely, unless they are intentionally leading us down the garden path on that one.

I'm glad the wait for the film is relatively short now.  After being let down by CM, I'm afraid that a long passage of time could perhaps prematurely sour more people on Endgame.  It's nice that there isn't too long to wait for it.  I hope it lives up to expectations.  After CM, I'm actually a bit nervous that it may be a letdown. 

What I do find interesting about the trailers, new poster, and other promotional material is that we have yet to see a villain, with the exception of the new poster showing Thanos in the background.  I think that's telling.  Obviously, Thanos is the unspoken focus.  But I'm not sure he will actually be the ultimate focus of the film, even though he obviously MUST be a big part of it.  I think there's something else.  And the toys that first showed those what we're assuming to be quantum suits (or was it Lego?) teased some other new threat.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2401 on: March 14, 2019, 11:47:03 AM »
jingle.son made reference to a rumour that there's a bit of Ultron sprinkled in the movie somehow.  If that's true, I wouldn't expect it to be much more than a cameo.

No clue what another threat might be.  Eros or Mentor?  Thane?  Trying to think who else in the Infinity group of comics might come in to play... Mephisto (though didn't someone say he is part of the FF Universe?)  Death herself?  The Eternals?

Oooh... The Eternals would be good.  Living Tribunal would be too, but I give that precisely 0% chance of happening.
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Online Orbert

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2402 on: March 14, 2019, 12:07:43 PM »
This is distressing.  I like the Marvel movies, and Mrs. Orbert has already expressed a desire to see Endgame in the theaters when it comes out.  But Captain Marvel will not be on home video before then, so we "have" to see it in the theater as well, if we want to continue our tradition of watching them all in production/release order.

But I don't see a lot of movies in theaters because of the expense and hassle, so Captain Marvel -- especially after all the mixed reviews -- is not one I'd planned to pay to see.  It was a definitely cable/Blu-ray option down the road, but just in case, I asked Mrs. Orbert last weekend if she wanted to go see it, and she said No, but she reiterated her desire to see Endgame when it comes out.  Argh!

So how important is it that we actually see Captain Marvel before Endgame?

 -- Not really.  A few points might not connect, but they're minor and/or will be explained.
 -- Very.  Captain Marvel is expected to play a major part in Endgame, so it will be good to know the backstory.
 -- We don't know.  Stop worrying about shit that no one else knows or cares about.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2403 on: March 14, 2019, 12:17:08 PM »
It's not crucial.  Yeah, it would be helpful to have the back story.  But I think it is probably unlikely that you will NEED to know anything from the CM film.  Here's a tiny font plot summary below, in case you feel it will help.  I'll do it in kind of two levels.  There IS a plot twist within the movie (two of them, actually), so I will do a more general summary, and then a "super-spoiler" tag with the twist stuff at the end.

Okay, so here's the basic plot synopsis:

Carol Danvers is known as "Veers" by the Kree.  She is a Kree warrior that is part of Star Force, an elite Kree strike force led by Jude Law's character, Yonn-Rogg.  Djimon Hansou's character, Korath, from Guardians of the Galaxy, is also part of Star Force.  Veers does not remember her past, but it is clear she is powerful.  She apparently has trouble reining in her power, and is prone to letter her emotions get out of control, which Yonn-Rogg is trying to help her with.  She has some sort of inhibitor implanted into her neck (which is a cool nod to Agents of SHIELD, season 5). 

The Kree are at war with the Skrulls, who are branded as a threat and, basically, terrorist rebels.  A mission to liberate a Kree agent from the Skrulls turns out to be an ambush, and Veers is captured and interrogated by the Skrulls.  During the process, she breaks free.  The Skrulls are in the process of taking her to earth and using her to retrieve some technology developed by a dead Air Force officer named Wendy Lawson (Annette Benning), who Veers has some sort of connection with.

On earth, Veers unites with Fury and Colson in 1995.  She eventually also unites with her former best friend from the Air Force, Maria Rambeau, and Maria's daughter, Monica, and discovers her connection and her former life on earth, and how previous events associated with all of that culminated in the event that gave her her powers.  With the unlocking of her memories comes a similar unlocking of her powers.  She loses the inhibitor and unleashes the full fury of her powers.  Ronan the Accuser also shows up briefly, but is forced to retreat before earth becomes aware of his presence.

Danvers leaves to attend to unfinished galactic business and gives Fury a modified pager that he can use only in the event of a "real emergency."

**********EVEN MORE SPOILERY, BUT PROBABLY NECESSARY**************
















The tesseract is at the center of how Danvers gets her powers.  It shows up, with Lawson being at the forefront of Project PEGASUS, and an accident with it unleashes its power on Danvers, transforming her.  Goose the "cat" turns out to be a flerken (we saw that coming) who at one point "eats" the tesserat (we did NOT see that coming), but later deposits it on Fury's desk during a post-credit scene.

**********SUPER SPOILERY, AND PROBABLY NOT NECESSARY, BUT I'LL PUT IT HERE IN CASE YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW.
 BUT I WOULDN'T READ IT IF I WERE YOU**************










If you've watched Agents of SHIELD and seen Guardians, you may deduce at the outset of the film that the Kree are probably the "bad guys."  And depending on how far you follow that rabbit trail, you may think to yourself something along the lines of, "If the Kree are the 'bad guys,' and the Kree are fighting the Skrulls, then regardless of what happened in the comics...maybe the Skrulls are...'good guys' here?"  Yup.  At least some of them are.  They are basically refugees against whom the Kree are waging an unjust war to exterminate them.  Project PEGASUS was basically Lawson's attempt to create experimental tech from the tesseract that would permit even more advanced space travel than what the Kress already have so that the various scattered factions of the Skrull can escape their reach.  And Lawson is the renegade Kree, Mar-Vell.  But, at least as far as we know in this film, she is "just another Kree" and doesn't have any special powers.  When Danvers has her memory unlocked, she finds out that Yonn-Rogg actually shot down an experimental craft Lawson built that Danvers was piloting (with Lawson onboard).  Lawson dies, but first tells Danvers to destroy it.  Danvers shoots the energy core, which is powered by the tesseract, and the resulting explosion is what transforms her.


Okay, there it is.  Read at your own risk.  But, again, it doesn't seem like that knowledge is necessary for Endgame.  Maybe read just the first part and not the second.  But it's all there, so it's up to you.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 12:41:15 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2404 on: March 14, 2019, 12:41:22 PM »

-Carol:  We should have liked her, or at least been able to sympathize with her more.  She was okay.  But I think we should come away from a film feeling like our main character, the film's protagonist, and from every indication the one who is going to bear the Marvel standard going forward, needs to be a lot more than that.  And the pieces were there for us to connect with her.  But...nothing was ever really developed.
-Fury:  The MCU Fury has been pretty cool at times.  Often he's just decent.  This version of him really did nothing.  He was just a foil for CM.  And he was, more or less, and idiot.  I'm not sure if this was poor writing or poor directing.  But I have long been of the belief that Jackson NEEDS a good director to shine.  With a good director, he can be absolutely incredible.  Without one, he can be, at best, a wooden caricature of himself.  This performance was closer to the latter.

Fury was my favorite part of the film. And as far as Carol, you say “we” should have liked her. Who exactly are you speaking for, other than yourself? You’re projecting your opinion onto others, assuming they feel the same, when actually many DID like the film just fine. It’s baffling to me that someone would be THAT nitpicky about a superhero movie, lol. It’s just meant to be a fun escape, to pass the time. If you feel that way, fine, but stop assuming others do. Don’t speak for others...let them speak for themselves.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2405 on: March 14, 2019, 12:46:05 PM »
I'm not really assuming or projecting.  "We" (the audience) should have liked her because she is the protagonist and is, apparently, going to be a big part of the Marvel universe going forward, and the MCU films generally operate on the principle that the protagonist is generally supposed to be likable.  Whether or not "we" actually did is obviously going to vary person by person.  But I can obviously observe what is being reported, which is that a majority of viewers do NOT particularly like her.  That, to me, is a shortcoming.

And discussing and analyzing is what a forum is for, and is part of the fun of being on a forum.  If you feel it's too nitpicky, that's your prerogative.  But that's why we are here: to respectfully discuss things.  You are welcome to disagree with, or to disregard, anything that I or others say.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2406 on: March 14, 2019, 12:46:56 PM »
Yeah, it's super fun imo... I might go back to see it in IMAX tonight actually. She shows plenty of emotion, and kicks ass while doing it. I liked her a lot.

Orb, no, it's not mandatory viewing, essentially she's a super soldier from the stars but originally born on Earth, and she works alongside Nick Fury in this film, which is of course who he pages at the end of IW. If you're not interested in seeing it in theaters, you aren't gonna miss much. Though you should see it on bluray :)
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2407 on: March 14, 2019, 12:47:48 PM »
Also, these movies are more than just brainless entertainment to pass the time. At least to people like me. If that's all it is to you, cool. But that's not what it is to many of us.


Anywho.


During the whole part of the trailers made up of former movies, thought it'd be funny if they included scenes of Edward Norton as Hulk. Someone needs to edit that together.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2408 on: March 14, 2019, 12:53:55 PM »
I'm not really assuming or projecting.  "We" (the audience) should have liked her because she is the protagonist and is, apparently, going to be a big part of the Marvel universe going forward, and the MCU films generally operate on the principle that the protagonist is generally supposed to be likable.  Whether or not "we" actually did is obviously going to vary person by person.  But I can obviously observe what is being reported, which is that a majority of viewers do NOT particularly like her.  That, to me, is a shortcoming.

And discussing and analyzing is what a forum is for, and is part of the fun of being on a forum.  If you feel it's too nitpicky, that's your prerogative.  But that's why we are here: to respectfully discuss things.  You are welcome to disagree with, or to disregard, anything that I or others say.

The vast majority of viewers? According to what source? Just several people here who share the same view? You are definitely assuming that most people who saw the film share your views on it, and there is no way for you to know exactly that the “vast majority” are displeased with the film the way you are. That’s all I’m saying.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2409 on: March 14, 2019, 12:59:24 PM »
I didn't say a "vast majority."  I said a "majority."  Those are not the same.  And I can observe that by reading/listening to what people are actually saying.  Most of what is being said publicly is less than favorable.  Not sure why that bothers you.  It simply is what it is.  You are perfectly entitled to have a different opinion.
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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2410 on: March 14, 2019, 01:00:25 PM »
Bosk, I think you need to cite from where you think the majority of people dislike her, especially because a lot of that is mixed up with idiots who blew her earlier comments out of proportion. Facebook shows lots of people loved her. My perception is definitely way different than yours.
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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2411 on: March 14, 2019, 01:01:21 PM »
To be fair to Bosk, even people, like myself, who liked the movie (but recognize the flaws) also think it was very hard to relate to Danvers and that her character lacked much depth. I have seen this opinion in many of the places I trust for reviews. People liked the movie. Even liked Carol, but recognized that she is a bit of a flat character.

Again, I fault that to the writers.

But can you tell me much about Danvers based on the movie? She is a strong warrior who gets angry at times and has a soft spot for her friend's kid.

I can't come up with much else.
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Offline Jay T

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2412 on: March 14, 2019, 01:04:36 PM »
I didn't say a "vast majority."  I said a "majority."  Those are not the same.  And I can observe that by reading/listening to what people are actually saying.  Most of what is being said publicly is less than favorable.  Not sure why that bothers you.  It simply is what it is.  You are perfectly entitled to have a different opinion.

Whether or not you said “vast majority” or “majority” is really irrelevant. The point is, you are assuming (based on nothing more than YOUR dissatisfaction with the film) that MOST viewers share the same sentiments, and I’m sorry, but you are wrong. You shouldn’t ever assume that others share your sentiments on anything; instead, base it on FACTS. That’s all I’m saying. In your initial post that I quoted, you worded YOUR personal sentiments with “we”. In other words, your were speaking for everyone, assuming they feel the same. The fact is, they do not. Many people have enjoyed the film so far, and just because you didn’t, doesn’t mean you should project your feelings and opinions on to others. As I said before, one shouldn’t speak for others. Let everyone speak for themselves.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2413 on: March 14, 2019, 01:12:04 PM »
Bosk, I think you need to cite from where you think the majority of people dislike her, especially because a lot of that is mixed up with idiots who blew her earlier comments out of proportion. Facebook shows lots of people loved her. My perception is definitely way different than yours.

No, actually I don't "need" to at all  I don't feel any need to justify my own opinion of the film by trying to come up with numbers.  You are conflating two things.  I gave my own opinion on the movie, and gave a pretty detailed explanation for why I feel that way.  You disagree?  Cool.  :tup  You have every right, and I respect that.  And I don't feel the need to try to somehow prove that you are wrong or that your opinion is not justified.  It's your opinion.  After letting this movie sink in, I am of the opinion that I will likely rank this at or near the bottom of the MCU releases.  At least, that's where I am at the moment.  Not sure why that seems to bother some people. 

Separately, I raised my observation that the majority of reviews and online chatter about the film seems to be negative rather than positive.  That's a separate issue.  And I don't feel the "need" to justify that either.  It is what it is.  And, yes, there is also a lot of positive about it too.  And that's cool.  My sense from what I have seen is that, while there is a lot of positive, there seems to be more negative (or at the very least, underwhelmed).  That's all.  Take a scroll through a Google search of review or through the reviews showing up on YouTube, and you'll see a similar thing.  Again, not sure what the fuss is about that.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS* 2
« Reply #2414 on: March 14, 2019, 01:13:45 PM »
I didn't say a "vast majority."  I said a "majority."  Those are not the same.  And I can observe that by reading/listening to what people are actually saying.  Most of what is being said publicly is less than favorable.  Not sure why that bothers you.  It simply is what it is.  You are perfectly entitled to have a different opinion.

Whether or not you said “vast majority” or “majority” is really irrelevant. The point is, you are assuming (based on nothing more than YOUR dissatisfaction with the film) that MOST viewers share the same sentiments, and I’m sorry, but you are wrong. You shouldn’t ever assume that others share your sentiments on anything; instead, base it on FACTS. That’s all I’m saying. In your initial post that I quoted, you worded YOUR personal sentiments with “we”. In other words, your were speaking for everyone, assuming they feel the same. The fact is, they do not. Many people have enjoyed the film so far, and just because you didn’t, doesn’t mean you should project your feelings and opinions on to others. As I said before, one shouldn’t speak for others. Let everyone speak for themselves.

Well, no, sorry, but you are completely off.  And while I have tried to be polite up to this point, you are completely misreading my post.  The "we" does not apply to what you are trying to apply it to, and I already explained that.  Your reading comprehension skills are decidedly lacking if you are taking that away from what I wrote.  If you can't handle someone else having an opinion that differs from yours, you aren't getting the point of a "discussion forum," emphasis on the word "discussion."
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