Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[jingle.boy]

New Ragnarok Trailer

Damn, this looks good

[Adami]

New Ragnarok Trailer

Damn, this looks good

I've gone through some stages with this movie.

When they first announced it, it was described as a huge dark epic movie. I was in. Then they said Taika was directing and I was like uhhhhh so now it's a comedy? Then the first teaser came out and I was all "Ohhhh they're going all Kirby on it!" now this shows that he found a really great tone. So I'm pumped!

[Adami]

Also it seems Captain Marvel will be a prequel movie of sorts, set in the 90's and will feature.....THE SKRULLS! I didn't even know Marvel got them back. Wonder who/what else they got back from Fox in the mean time.

Should be pretty cool. Doesn't have to feature a crap ton of Avengers tie ins and can have a new style.

[jingle.boy]

jingle.son told me that Fox has The Super Skrull (who is part of the FF universe??), but Marvel has The Skrulls (as a race).

I dunno, that's what he said, and it sounds plausible.

[Metro]

.

[hefdaddy42]

Been a while, but yeah, Spider-Man: Homecoming was fantastic.  Keaton was great, as was Holland.

For me, the most captivating sequence was prom night.  Starting with Toomes opening the door and Peter realizing who he is, to the car ride where Toomes eventually figures out who Peter is.  Just a fantastic sequence of actors doing fantastic work, perhaps the best such example in the entire MCU.  And not one superpower in sight.

[soupytwist]

So Spider-Man : Homecoming's total box office is surprisingly low.  Currently it's under the total The Amazing Spider-Man 2 took and that killed the franchise.  It's really quite odd the reviews have been good, word of mouth seems strong, the hype 'cameo' in Civil War was perfect - but for whatever reason it's not translated into box office gold.  I think a lot of people were expecting this to cross the billion line, and it's struggling to reach 700 million at the minute.

Are we starting to see Superhero fatigue?

[Cable]

I'm personally not too quick to jump to superhero fatigue, as these seem to be the new action blockbusters. I looked at the numbers for the stand-alones, and typically this is where they have sat (sans IM3 & CA:CW) money wise. I also recently heard that in the US, theatre attendance is going down. With attendance down, I also feel there are more big wazoo movies to see these days, vs. when I was younger. All the action films (1980s-1990s) were mostly R-rated films from my recollection, so these comic based films have filled that in and then some IMO. Perhaps just too many to pick from, vs. indifference and not going? I don't have total films on a yearly basis numbers or anything, so just speculating.

There is possibly Spider-man fatigue no doubt Soupytwist. This is the 6th since 2002, so that's about every three years there is one. But then if we go with overall fatigue; factor in the DCU had massive mis-firings until Wonder Women, Fantastic Four bombed, and Apocalypse was a massive MEH.

[jammindude]

Theater fatigue. 

I'm not sure why.   I only know that I've been an avid theater goer for my entire life.  My wife and I LOVE going to the movies.  There are SEVERAL movies we've been dying to see, but just have been too tired to go out.    Work is good, money is good (some unexpected things lately have made things a bit tight, but nothing unusual from times past when we were going to the movies often). 

We had to go on a week vacation just to have time to go see Spider Man.  We loved it.  But the other movie the whole family has been dying to see it the new Planet of the Apes movie.    And we just.....can't find the time.   

[bosk1]

So, apparently, Mark Ruffalo slammed Universal for there not being another Hulk standalone movie:  https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-ruffalo-slams-universal-says-its-the-reason-well-never-see-a-standalone-hulk-movie-again-2017-7

But this got me thinking:  Is there really a high demand for a Hulk standalone movie?  I mean, there is obviously some demand because fans like Hulk.  But his there sufficient demand that justify a film?  I could be wrong, but I don't think there is.  The Edward Norton film that is a part of the current MCU was pretty good and was necessary to set up the Avengers.  But the boxoffice numbers were just "good," not great, as compared to the other films.  Is there anywhere to go in a standalone Hulk film that has the potential to be significantly better than "pretty good?"  I am not really seeing that potential.  There's just nothing compelling that I see the character doing as the lead in a standalone film that would take it beyond "pretty good."  So, to me, that begs the question of, if it isn't likely to significantly surpass "pretty good," and the box office numbers are not likely to significantly surpass "good," is there much incentive for Marvel to do it?  I think the answer is no (unless there was a compelling reason to do so because the overall MCU storyline required it, which I don't see happening).  So I don't think it should come as a surprise that we shouldn't expect a standalone Hulk movie in the near future.

That said, I'm not slamming the character at all.  I think they've done a pretty good job developing the character, and I feel that the stories with him as a supporting character rather than a lead character have benefitted greatly by the inclusion of that character.  I guess what I'm saying is, the Hulk is a great co-lead or supporting character, but not a solo lead character, because there isn't anything compelling enough about his story arc at this state in the MCU to justify another standalone Hulk film. 

[jingle.boy]

Whether there is market "demand" or not, I'm sure Marvel doesn't (or wouldn't) care.  Was there demand for Dr. Strange, Ant-Man... hell, Iron Man back in 2007?  Yet, they still made those films, and still made them successful.  Were people begging for a Black Panther or Ms Marvel movie when they decided to go with those characters in Phase 3?  Marvel also has now proven with Spidey that they can take a franchise/character that had been shit on, and put out a great movie regardless.  So, I don't think the issue of demand is an issue at all.

I think if Marvel had full rights to The Hulk, I think they'd absolutely make a movie out of him.  There are so many possible stories to adapt.

[bosk1]

Yeah, there's something to be said for the fact that they may have made great movies for characters that may not have seemed to be in high demand.  But the difference is, those characters were pretty integral to the overall story they wanted to tell, so those movies made sense.  That is true of the Hulk movie back when it was done.  But another one now?  I'm just not seeing it.  That isn't to say they couldn't do a successful movie.  I'm just saying I don't see any sort of justification.  But, hey, I'm just offering my perspective.  I'm not saying you are wrong.

[jingle.boy]

... and the MCU is doing just fine without a standalone Hulk story, so you could be absolutely right as well.  I would disagree about how 'integral' Ant-Man has been to the MCU.  Dr. Strange... we'll see in Phase 3 I suppose.

[Adami]

This is the best position for the MCU. Obviously they'd never make another standalone Hulk movie, but now they can just shift all the blame to Universal. Pretty clever.


The only Hulk story line that was in demand was Planet Hulk. We're getting that (kind of). There's no other demand.

[bosk1]

... and the MCU is doing just fine without a standalone Hulk story, so you could be absolutely right as well.  I would disagree about how 'integral' Ant-Man has been to the MCU.  Dr. Strange... we'll see in Phase 3 I suppose.

Yeah, I mean, there are definitely different levels of important and different reasons for importance.  Ant Man certainly isn't indispensable for the storyline they are doing.  But Hank Pym's relationship to Stark and the world they have been building around the Stark family as the centerpiece of the MCU are pretty important, even if somewhat-tangential.  Add to that the fact that Marvel nerds went nuts over the Ant Man suit at Stark Expo in IM2, and there was, IMO, plenty of justification for adding Ant Man to the MCU. 

Dr. Strange, on the other hand, is pretty indispensable for Infinity Wars.  They need someone with that kind of power who deals with otherworldly realms and all that that entails.  Despite that many (myself included) think of him as a minor Marvel character, he is pretty important for what they are doing.

But I'm not really arguing with you, so please don't take it as that.  I'm just fleshing out what I was saying in light of your comment.

The only Hulk story line that was in demand was Planet Hulk. We're getting that (kind of). There's no other demand.

Yeah, there's that.  But in my opinion, I don't think it would have worked well with Hulk as just its own story with Hulk as the lead.  I think, again, he's better when part of an ensemble, so doing Planet Hulk as a buddy movie within Ragnarok seems like a smarter way to have gone.

[Adami]

Totally agree about Planet Hulk. It was an amazing comic story, but I don't think (as is) woudl have translated terribly well to the big screen.




Also.........Ant-Man suit at the Stark Expo? Are there pics? How did I miss this?

[bosk1]

Also.........Ant-Man suit at the Stark Expo? Are there pics? How did I miss this?

I remembered that theory being all over the Internet after IM2 was out, so I was surprised that YOU were surprised.  But just went back and looked it up, and now I remember that it was confirmed not too long after that upon taking a closer look that it was actually a human torch prototype suit, not Ant Man:  "The original Human Torch's costume was also briefly teased at the expo, encased in a glass tube as a nod to the comics."  Sorry.

[Adami]

Yea. I remember Human Torch in Captain America. I was thrown off by Ant Man in IM 2.

I would also love a random movie about Cap, Bucky, human torch, toro, and Namor fighting in WWII.

[jingle.boy]

@ Bosk... didn't take it as an argument whatsoever.  And I agree 100%, Dr. Strange is going to be pretty important in the scheme of Infiinity Wars.

I do think could be stories that would translate on the big screen vis-a-vis Hulk... Adapting some story of World War Hulk (they were able to adapt Civil War), or Red/Grey Hulk story lines perhaps?  I'm not terrible versed in Hulk storylines, but I know WW Hulk(s) were a couple of biggies.

Alas... never gonna happen.

[bosk1]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on this until now:  https://screenrant.com/thor-ragnarok-taika-waititi-flash-gordon-inspiration/  From the trailers alone, some of the shots are clearly directly inspired by Flash Gordon. 

[bosk1]

Japanese Ragnarok trailer has some cool Doctor Strange in it.  It may very well be a continuation of the conversation in the Doctor Strange post-credits scene.

[Adami]

Japanese Ragnarok trailer has some cool Doctor Strange in it.  It may very well be a continuation of the conversation in the Doctor Strange post-credits scene.

Yea, I know that stuff is probably pretty early on in the movie.

Looks good though! Just hope they don't overdo it with the jokes. As Honest Trailers recently said, we've been with Marvel for about 10 years now. We can go a few minutes without a chuckle.


Also the guy doing the Inhumans show recently confessed that Marvel hired him to make the show very fast and very cheap. So that explains a lot.

[bosk1]

I don't think that is a realistic expectation for this particular film.

[Adami]

I don't think that is a realistic expectation for this particular film.

Probably. Luckily it never really distracts me in the moment. I always enjoy the super jokey ones. They just aren't the ones that stay with me over time.

Luckily I doubt Black Panther or Infinity War will be too joke heavy.

[countoftuscany42]

so, who's watched Defenders, and what are your thoughts?  I really enjoyed it, although i wouldn't have minded if they made it a longer season like the other shows instead of the shorter 8 episodes.  It's nice having things compact and not drawn out too much, but it almost starts to feel rushed considering how much buildup to this season there's been with four other shows.

[ariich]

Three episodes in and it's really good so far. First two were good exposition - bit of a slowish start but I'm fine with that. Third episode was absolutely excellent.

[jingle.boy]

jingle.son and I are going to start watching today.

[aurorablind]

Plowed through the entire season in one day 
I really liked it! I'd rank it as the third best Marvel Netflix-show, after Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones.

[lonestar]

Aaaaand let's go.... should be through it by Tuesday...

[jingle.boy]

Watched the first 2 with jingle.son.  Thought they were fantastic, great way to lay the foundation of bringing the four of them together.

[BlackInk]

Finished The Defenders today. Great show, and so rewarding to them all together.

[Adami]

Finished it yesterday.

Slow start, I would have edited the first two episodes a bit differently. Instead of giving each character like 25% of each episode, I'd make the first episode about two of them, and the second episode about the other two.

Few minor complaints about Iron Fist, but that isn't too shocking.

Beyond that, I really loved it. The only Marvel Netflix show I immediately want to re-watch.

[ariich]

Finished it this afternoon, loved it. On a par with Daredevil IMO and just a smidge below Jessica Jones.

One thing I really, really enjoyed was that while the general tone was still dark like the other shows, there was more in the way of light moments and humour thanks to the interactions between the four of them. They managed to get a great balance.

[jingle.boy]

Finished it this afternoon, loved it. On a par with Daredevil IMO and just a smidge below Jessica Jones.

One thing I really, really enjoyed was that while the general tone was still dark like the other shows, there was more in the way of light moments and humour thanks to the interactions between the four of them. They managed to get a great balance.

That's shrimp... he's got the pork.   

1/2 way thru - we're gonna tackle 2 episodes/day, and be done with it by Tuesday.  Digging it so far.

[Adami]

Finished it this afternoon, loved it. On a par with Daredevil IMO and just a smidge below Jessica Jones.

One thing I really, really enjoyed was that while the general tone was still dark like the other shows, there was more in the way of light moments and humour thanks to the interactions between the four of them. They managed to get a great balance.

And none of the humor was forced or out of place, it was all naturally from character interactions.