Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[Kotowboy]

I read that the 4 hour Snyder cut of Justice League will have "F bombs in"...

Yeah I chose the right franchise.  I liked Wonder Woman ( dat theme ! ) but the rest of it was pretty terrible and I didn't bother with Suicide Squad or FishMan.


Also - Hot Take - Blade Trinity was a great movie. Ryan Reynolds makes every superhero movie he's in better.

[Kotowboy]

Does a singer releasing a crappy song hurt their other songs?  Why would a subpar movie hurt what came before it?

I don't mean one bad movie will completely ruin the last ten years. I'm just worried the overall quality will gradually trend downwards.

[Orbert]

They've been amazing so far, so yeah, it's a valid concern that they may not be able to keep things at that high level.  I just disagree with the mentality that something done now can adversely affect what came before it.  Sure, the average overall quality of the films may dip a bit, but people do say things like "...and then they made <movie> which ruined the whole series!"  No, they made a movie you didn't like.  Ignore it, and enjoy the others.  Simple as that.

The only exception I can think of is when a later movie retcons key elements in the series, and do it poorly or introduce something really stupid, to the point where you can't watch the older films without thinking about what is "really" going on supposedly.  Makes it harder to ignore, for sure, but it can be done.

[bosk1]

The only exception I can think of is when a later movie retcons key elements in the series, and do it poorly or introduce something really stupid, to the point where you can't watch the older films without thinking about what is "really" going on supposedly.  Makes it harder to ignore, for sure, but it can be done.

I hadn't thought about that specific possibility, but I guess that is actually a pretty reasonable possibility.  I mean, as has been said repeatedly, Marvel knows what they are doing, and they have a great track record of not falling into that trap.  But on the flip side, once you start dealing with time travel or multiverses, and all the zaniness and inherent conflicts those types of plot devices can inherently invoke, I think it is easier to fall into that trap.  And I think we actually started to see that a bit in Endgame.  There were definitely a few moments in that film that feel inconsistent and/or feel that there is some retconning going on.  But they are easily forgivable and easy to overlook because of how good the film is overall, how invested we are in all the characters, and how invested we are in the universe as a whole.  The second two factors will be present in any film going forward, and I think that will make it easy to forgive a lot of things in future films, even if the films themselves aren't as good. 

[ariich]

The only exception I can think of is when a later movie retcons key elements in the series, and do it poorly or introduce something really stupid, to the point where you can't watch the older films without thinking about what is "really" going on supposedly.  Makes it harder to ignore, for sure, but it can be done.

I hadn't thought about that specific possibility, but I guess that is actually a pretty reasonable possibility.  I mean, as has been said repeatedly, Marvel knows what they are doing, and they have a great track record of not falling into that trap.  But on the flip side, once you start dealing with time travel or multiverses, and all the zaniness and inherent conflicts those types of plot devices can inherently invoke, I think it is easier to fall into that trap.  And I think we actually started to see that a bit in Endgame.  There were definitely a few moments in that film that feel inconsistent and/or feel that there is some retconning going on.  But they are easily forgivable and easy to overlook because of how good the film is overall, how invested we are in all the characters, and how invested we are in the universe as a whole.  The second two factors will be present in any film going forward, and I think that will make it easy to forgive a lot of things in future films, even if the films themselves aren't as good. 

I agree with all that, but also more than that I think the way they brought in time travel (if you change something in the past, it creates a branch into another timeline - the past in your universe hasn't changed) was clever and avoided the trap of undoing everything in the previous films.

I'm aware there were also some more minor changes to past events than had previously been described, but none of those felt significant at all and you get that with any franchises included much smaller, simpler ones.

[lonestar]

Yeah I chose the right franchise.  I liked Wonder Woman ( dat theme ! )

The only thing hotter than that theme is the girl playing it.. Tina Guo is just

[Kotowboy]

Wonder Woman 1984 looks good but the trailer made it seem they were aping the Thor Ragnarok style a bit.

Oh and Thor Ragnarok has probably the greatest trailer in recent memory.

Whoever decided on Immigrant Song for that film needs all the money. It's fuckin PERFECT.

[Podaar]

Wonder Woman 1984 looks good but the trailer made it seem they were aping the Thor Ragnarok style a bit.

What they were going for was more of a Christopher Reeve Superman movie amped up the "decade of excess" that the 80's were know for.

[MinistroRaven]

I jujst finished watching WW84, man, there's no fucking wait to have my 2.24 hours back, right? Jeez!

[Lonk]

So it looks like Deadpool 3 will be part of the MCU (R-rated). Does this means we will see more X-Men characters in the MCU? 

https://collider.com/deadpool-3-mcu-confirmed-r-rating-filming-details-kevin-feige-interview/

[bosk1]

WandaVision on Friday! 

[Adami]

WandaVision on Friday! 

Really pumped for this!

[hefdaddy42]

I think I read that they are dropping 2 episodes for us the first week.

[Lonk]

I think I read that they are dropping 2 episodes for us the first week.

Correct, then 1 episode a week. It will end just in time for Falcon and Winter Soldier 

[Stadler]

Do I want to watch this?

[jingle.boy]

jingle.son told me Disney has pretty much timed/scheduled things so that all the upcoming Marvel and Star Wars series' are going to drop pretty consecutively with little/no gaps in between.  Between that and the four feature films, 2021 is gonna be a massive year for the MCU and Star Wars.

I'm also looking forward to checking out the Legends vignette's.

[Grappler]

Do I want to watch this?

I just read the premise - it's a sitcom show with Scarlet Witch and Vision (she supposedly recreates him in her memories via her powers, or through a multiverse scenario).   Each week/episode is themed after a different era of sitcoms (50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc.). 

It will directly set up Doctor Strange 2. 

[bosk1]

I'm also looking forward to checking out the Legends vignette's.

Without revealing too much, I'll just say:  They are nice to remind you of each character's story arc to get you anticipating the episodes this Friday.  But there is nothing "new" in them whatsoever, and you may walk away feeling underwhelmed if you are expecting new content.

[jingle.boy]

I'm also looking forward to checking out the Legends vignette's.

Without revealing too much, I'll just say:  They are nice to remind you of each character's story arc to get you anticipating the episodes this Friday.  But there is nothing "new" in them whatsoever, and you may walk away feeling underwhelmed if you are expecting new content.

I think I figured it was mostly (entirely) a "review" of them.  I'm ok with that.

[Stadler]

Do I want to watch this?

I just read the premise - it's a sitcom show with Scarlet Witch and Vision (she supposedly recreates him in her memories via her powers, or through a multiverse scenario).   Each week/episode is themed after a different era of sitcoms (50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc.). 

It will directly set up Doctor Strange 2.

When my daughter suggested we watch the MCU straight through, she was hoping to see Liam Helmsworth (inside joke: I know it's Chris Hemsworth), and I was almost exclusively looking forward to Dr. Strange.  One of my favorite characters in the Marvel comic books (Steve Ditko!).   So if this is part of that, I'll be watching.  Thanks!!

[Adami]

Don’t watch WandaVision hoping for it to be about Dr. Strange. It’ll connect to his movie but, unless he makes a surprise cameo, he’s not in it.

It’s about an Uber powerful mutant who creates her own reality out of grief and it slowly unravels as the outside world tries to reach her.

It sounds great.

[Stadler]

Don’t watch WandaVision hoping for it to be about Dr. Strange. It’ll connect to his movie but, unless he makes a surprise cameo, he’s not in it.

It’s about an Uber powerful mutant who creates her own reality out of grief and it slowly unravels as the outside world tries to reach her.

It sounds great.

I'm prepared for that (no appearance); I'm okay with the threads.  I got into a debate with my kid about watching Captain Marvel; she said it wasn't relevant, you don't need it, and I, being the completist I am, said yes you do.   I think, so far, grand scheme of things she's probably right, but I like the connectiveness I get from having watched it.

I'll probably watch this.  This is the girl from the coda of... was it Captain Marvel Winter Soldier?

[Adami]

Don’t watch WandaVision hoping for it to be about Dr. Strange. It’ll connect to his movie but, unless he makes a surprise cameo, he’s not in it.

It’s about an Uber powerful mutant who creates her own reality out of grief and it slowly unravels as the outside world tries to reach her.

It sounds great.

I'm prepared for that (no appearance); I'm okay with the threads.  I got into a debate with my kid about watching Captain Marvel; she said it wasn't relevant, you don't need it, and I, being the completist I am, said yes you do.   I think, so far, grand scheme of things she's probably right, but I like the connectiveness I get from having watched it.

I'll probably watch this.  This is the girl from the coda of... was it Captain Marvel Winter Soldier?

Scarlet Witch? She was in Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame. Maybe the post credits for Winter Soldier.

Also the little girl from Captain Marvel (her friend's daughter) is in WandaVision, but all grown up.

[Stadler]

Don’t watch WandaVision hoping for it to be about Dr. Strange. It’ll connect to his movie but, unless he makes a surprise cameo, he’s not in it.

It’s about an Uber powerful mutant who creates her own reality out of grief and it slowly unravels as the outside world tries to reach her.

It sounds great.

I'm prepared for that (no appearance); I'm okay with the threads.  I got into a debate with my kid about watching Captain Marvel; she said it wasn't relevant, you don't need it, and I, being the completist I am, said yes you do.   I think, so far, grand scheme of things she's probably right, but I like the connectiveness I get from having watched it.

I'll probably watch this.  This is the girl from the coda of... was it Captain Marvel Winter Soldier?

Scarlet Witch? She was in Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame. Maybe the post credits for Winter Soldier.

Also the little girl from Captain Marvel (her friend's daughter) is in WandaVision, but all grown up.

Yes; I've only seen Winter Soldier from that list, and she was in the mid-credits scene.    Cool.

[bosk1]

  I thought you had seen them all.  Why did you watch Captain Marvel if you haven't watched those that preceded it?  I am so confused. 

[jingle.boy]

I think Captain Marvel is relevant and important.  It makes a subsequent appearance more impactful (imo).  It's a bottom tier MCU movie, but still a good one.

[Adami]

  I thought you had seen them all.  Why did you watch Captain Marvel if you haven't watched those that preceded it?  I am so confused.

Can't answer this. Obviously we all know Stads is wrong on everything all the time.

That said, whenever I do my Marvel rewatch (which I will at some point this year) I'll do Captain Marvel 2nd after Captain America, since I'll be doing it in "in universe" chronology. Maybe he's doing that?

[bosk1]

I think Captain Marvel is relevant and important.  It makes a subsequent appearance more impactful (imo).  It's a bottom tier MCU movie, but still a good one.

Agreed on all of that.

[Stadler]

  I thought you had seen them all.  Why did you watch Captain Marvel if you haven't watched those that preceded it?  I am so confused.

We're not watching it in order of theatrical release, but in order of the place in the MCU.  My daughter has this list from the internet - so it MUST be correct - and we're watching it in that order.  It's not perfectly chronological, because I had already seen Iron Man, TIH, and Iron Man 2 before.

I've seen:
- Iron Man
- The Incredible Hulk
- Iron Man 2
- Capt. America: The First Avenger (LOVED this movie)
- Capt. Marvel
- Thor
- The Avengers
- Iron Man 3
- Thor: Dark World (god is Jane Foster annoying; I would ditch her for Sif in a HEARTBEAT). 
- Capt. America: Winter Soldier
- Guardians Of The Galaxy
- Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2

Next up are:
- Avengers: Age Of Ultron
- Ant-Man
- Capt. America: Civil War

[Orbert]

I think Captain Marvel is relevant and important.  It makes a subsequent appearance more impactful (imo).  It's a bottom tier MCU movie, but still a good one.

Agreed on all of that.

Yep, not a super-great movie, but good enough, and an important part of the larger universe.

I've considered watching them all in chronological order, but first, anything that involves "watching them all" is a huge undertaking.  And while I like nearly all of the MCU movies, and have enormous respect for the universe they've built and how well they pulled off such a ridiculous endeavor, I'm not a raving fanboy.  Not enough to commit to 50+ hours (or whatever it works out to) just to do it.  Second reason is that I kinda like putting together the puzzle.  They weren't released in chronological order, but there are connections and callbacks everywhere, plus the all-important post-credits and mid-credits scenes.  I like the feeling of watching something and realizing how it connects to something I hadn't seen yet at the time, but now appreciate.  In other words, now that I've seen them all and have the entire picture, there's not really that much to be gained by watching them all again in order.  They weren't actually made to be viewed that way.  You can't spin the dial these days without catching an MCU movie, which we often do, so I'm fine just sitting down and watching a two-hour piece of the puzzle once in a while.

[bosk1]

  I thought you had seen them all.  Why did you watch Captain Marvel if you haven't watched those that preceded it?  I am so confused.

We're not watching it in order of theatrical release, but in order of the place in the MCU.  My daughter has this list from the internet - so it MUST be correct - and we're watching it in that order.  It's not perfectly chronological, because I had already seen Iron Man, TIH, and Iron Man 2 before.

Oh, OK.  I don't have any MAJOR beef with that order.  I mean, Cap. should go right before The Avengers.  It was released that way for a reason, and I think the flow of those two films back to back is the best potential order.  But at least that chronology that you have doesn't put Cap. as the first film.  I get why they would do that chronologically.  But in terms of the bigger universe story, it's really dumb and I hate it.  I would never watch in that order. 

Anyhow, as relevant to the discussion we were having, you are about to get the first real dose of Wanda/Scarlet Witch, as well as the introduction of Vision.  Hope you like Age of Ultron.  I did.  But there is a contingency of fans that felt it was a letdown.

[hefdaddy42]

Don’t watch WandaVision hoping for it to be about Dr. Strange. It’ll connect to his movie but, unless he makes a surprise cameo, he’s not in it.

It’s about an Uber powerful mutant who creates her own reality out of grief and it slowly unravels as the outside world tries to reach her.

It sounds great.

I'm prepared for that (no appearance); I'm okay with the threads.  I got into a debate with my kid about watching Captain Marvel; she said it wasn't relevant, you don't need it, and I, being the completist I am, said yes you do.   I think, so far, grand scheme of things she's probably right, but I like the connectiveness I get from having watched it.

I'll probably watch this.  This is the girl from the coda of... was it Captain Marvel Winter Soldier?

Scarlet Witch? She was in Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame. Maybe the post credits for Winter Soldier.

Also the little girl from Captain Marvel (her friend's daughter) is in WandaVision, but all grown up.

Yes; I've only seen Winter Soldier from that list, and she was in the mid-credits scene.    Cool.

Honestly, if you don't watch everything else BEFORE WandaVision, you're going to be confused as hell.

From what I've seen, I will be confused as hell, and I've seen every MCU film multiple times.

[Adami]

Yea, since half of the show is The Vision and what goes on with him in the last 2 Avengers films, not knowing that will make the show really weird.

[jingle.boy]

Yea, since half of the show is The Vision and what goes on with him in the last 2 Avengers films, not knowing that will make the show really weird.

This this this.  No one should watch W-V without getting to Infinity War and (to a lesser extent) Endgame.

Save W-V until you've finished the movies.

[bosk1]

Oh, absolutely.  I think Stadler knows that (and if he is watching chronologically, I don't think he would plan to watch Wandavision yet anyway).  But just in case:  STADLER, DO NOT FINISH WANDAVISION UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN ALL THE FILMS THROUGH ENDGAME.

I have spoken.