Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[jammindude]

Season 1 of Agent Carter was fantastic. I really really loved it.

Season 2 just went....off. It was not good. The actors were lovely, and there were some good moments, but over all it was pretty poor.

I thought the same thing, but the rewatch was kinder.   

One thing this entire series reminds me of, is that in the very beginning they were really trying to make the TV shows harmonious with the movies, and certain events interacted.   I don't know if it just became way too much to maintain or what, but the entire MCU was a lot more fun that way.   I think it hit its peak around the time of CA:WS and the way those events tied into AoS.     I really wish they could have kept that idea alive.   AoS lost a step when they had to quit chasing the movie "squirrel".    But I guess the movie people weren't really keeping the TV shows in the loop, so they had no choice. 

[jammindude]

Finished ALL of Agent Carter.   Seeing things that I missed the first time were fun (Prof Vanko was a nice touch). 

Tonight I'm watching Captain Marvel.   It's mostly movies from here until just after Iron Man 3.   But I kinda just went through that early string of films, so I might just skip to Season 1 of Agents of SHIELD.   But we'll see.  I've got a month of quarantine, so maybe I'll decide to rewatch it all.

[jammindude]

This movie only reminded me how much I CAN'T STAND MCU FANS.   

Loved this movie.  Loved the callbacks, loved the winks, loved Brie Larson's portrayal.    And you know what really sucks?   The accusation of her acting being "wooden".   There was tons of emotion in this movie, and I absolutely cried when she went through her memories and she kept getting up.   It was awesome.   

On to Iron Man. 

[The Walrus]

This movie only reminded me how much I CAN'T STAND MCU FANS.   

Loved this movie.  Loved the callbacks, loved the winks, loved Brie Larson's portrayal.    And you know what really sucks?   The accusation of her acting being "wooden".   There was tons of emotion in this movie, and I absolutely cried when she went through her memories and she kept getting up.   It was awesome.   

On to Iron Man.

Captain Marvel rocks, Brie Larson's portrayal and performance was great, and it's one of my favorite phase 3 films.

[Adami]

Captain Marvel was a fine phase 1 film but a lackluster phase 3 film.

If it was released back in phase 1, it would've been better. Then have the post-credits scene be in Infinity War instead.

[The Walrus]

Hmm - why doesn't it work as a phase 3 film in your opinion? If we got rid of the idea of 'phases' would it still not work?

[Adami]

Hmm - why doesn't it work as a phase 3 film in your opinion? If we got rid of the idea of 'phases' would it still not work?

I think the phases (besides how Marvel uses them officially) represent a development in story telling. The first phase really was telling a certain type of story. They told how someone becomes a hero and they had a pretty nifty formula to do so. But over time, they experimented (mostly in phase 2) and learned a lot of lessons and  grew a whole lot. Captain Marvel followed the formulas of phase 1 and didn't seem to benefit from the lessons learned. I think one reason it wasn't so critically loved (by fans or critics) was because it didn't seem to have grown the way most Marvel movies had. It was a true "return to form" but the form was something from which Marvel had long since matured. If Captain America: First Avenger was released in 2019 or 2018, it would've been much more divisive than it was when it was released. If Captain Marvel came out in 2009 or 2010, it would've been much more accepted and enjoyed because it didn't have to measure up to things like Infinity War and so forth.

That make sense?

[The Walrus]

Yeah, that makes sense. I can see where you're coming from. I don't agree, but now I know what you mean.

[lordxizor]

And you know what really sucks?   The accusation of her acting being "wooden".   There was tons of emotion in this movie, and I absolutely cried when she went through her memories and she kept getting up.   It was awesome.   

I felt her acting was a bit wooden, personally, but I still enjoyed the movie and there was some emotion. I don't think it was bad acting. I think that was the way Larson, and the director, wanted the character portrayed. Thor was similar at first and he loosened up over time. Hopefully Captain Marvel will do the same.

[Adami]

Yea, Larson is a fantastic actor. I really like her. But her acting was a bit wooden. Not 100% of the time, she definitely had great moments. I think a big portion of it was the writers/directors/whomever, didn't really have a firm grasp on what they wanted the character to be. They had a plot, but the character was a bit underwritten, so it was hard to find ways to express her properly.

I think, given another movie or so, they can really find their footing with her. She CAN be a great character, and while they have a great foundation, they need more development to get there.

[Adami]

Yeah, that makes sense. I can see where you're coming from. I don't agree, but now I know what you mean.

Aside from my main point in story telling, how cool would've it have been if Captain Marvel came out in 2010, was never talked about again until the post credits scene in Infinity War, which would've been her post credits scene of her showing up. That would've had such a cooler impact.

[Zantera]

I think Brie Larson is great as an actress but her portrayal being 'wooden' as Captain Marvel I feel comes as a result of how the character is written. At times she's meant to be a 'take charge' Captain America type leader, at other times she's doing sarcastic Tony Stark remarks and in the next she's displaying the arrogance you might connect to Dr. Strange. I feel like my biggest problems with her character is I feel she has fragments of other characters but nothing that makes her THAT unique.

[lonestar]

I think Brie Larson is great as an actress but her portrayal being 'wooden' as Captain Marvel I feel comes as a result of how the character is written. At times she's meant to be a 'take charge' Captain America type leader, at other times she's doing sarcastic Tony Stark remarks and in the next she's displaying the arrogance you might connect to Dr. Strange. I feel like my biggest problems with her character is I feel she has fragments of other characters but nothing that makes her THAT unique.

Or maybe all the token personality archetypes for heroes were already displayed, and any new character would just resemble a mash up of them. At that point they had introduced a ton of superheroes, so anyone new will of course bring up ideas of the old ones. Quill also has that Stark sarcasm. T'challa has that Cap take charge attitude. I think she is her own person, and kind of agree with Adami that she would have sold better in Phase 1.

[Indiscipline]

Brie Larson is amazing, and I fell in love with her phenomenal work in Rampart.

I agree her talents have been a bit held back in CM; maybe those responsible for the writing/character building/screenplay were more concerned about displaying THE perfectly agreeable and social sensibility-proof woman character for this day/age/climate than breathing life into a more characterised individual?

Plus, It was impossible not being upstaged by that cat

[jammindude]

Yeah, that makes sense. I can see where you're coming from. I don't agree, but now I know what you mean.

Aside from my main point in story telling, how cool would've it have been if Captain Marvel came out in 2010, was never talked about again until the post credits scene in Infinity War, which would've been her post credits scene of her showing up. That would've had such a cooler impact.

And I can already tell that watching it in this order (as opposed to the release order) improves both this movie, and the bigger story for reasons you’ve already stated.

[Adami]

Brie Larson is amazing, and I fell in love with her phenomenal work in Rampart.

I agree her talents have been a bit held back in CM; maybe those responsible for the writing/character building/screenplay were more concerned about displaying THE perfectly agreeable and social sensibility-proof woman character for this day/age/climate than breathing life into a more characterised individual?

Plus, It was impossible not being upstaged by that cat

Oh yea, I can't imagine the pressure that whole team was under to create the perfect female superhero. Sadly, they did what usually happens in those scenarios. You get bland. It's a real shame. You try so hard to please everyone, you end up getting something with no flavor.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Seems like they're afraid or unwilling to write her with flaws, which makes her character feel incomplete, and boring as a result.

Tony Stark has the same kind of smartassy thing going on, but he works because the character is a whole mess of flaws.

[Adami]

Seems like they're afraid or unwilling to write her with flaws, which makes her character feel incomplete, and boring as a result.

Tony Stark has the same kind of smartassy thing going on, but he works because the character is a whole mess of flaws.

It's a real shame but an unfortunate fact that, in today's society, a female super hero can't be written as freely or with as many risks as a male superhero. I hope that now she's out of the gate, they can take some chances with her moving forward. The more worried they get about upsetting any potential part of the fan base, the worse her character will end up being. None of this, at all, is in Larson, but the writers/producers/directors/etc.

[Lonk]

I didn't care much for CM the character, and I agree with Adami that the movie felt like a phase 1 movie.

I think (and hope) that the more we see of her the more her character will develop. She's been in 1 movie and a quarter of another (if even that). It sucks that all the new movies were pushed back, we will have to wait a little longer to get the story going again.

[The Walrus]

I dunno guys. It seems like just about every solo character's first movie feels like a phase 1 flick but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Black Panther, Dr. Strange, even Spider-man: Homecoming. Honestly I think Guardians 1 might be the only one to not feel like a phase 1 movie in its first installment.

[Adami]

I dunno guys. It seems like just about every solo character's first movie feels like a phase 1 flick but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Black Panther, Dr. Strange, even Spider-man: Homecoming. Honestly I think Guardians 1 might be the only one to not feel like a phase 1 movie in its first installment.

Oh yea, Doctor Strange also should've been phase 1, MAYBE phase 2 since it's way crazier than any other phase 1 film. Being a phase 1 film isn't bad at all. I love the phase 1 films more than most. I love First Avenger and even the first Thor movie quite a lot, so when I say Captain Marvel would've been better off in phase 1, I don't mean that as an insult. I just think it fits in more there than between movies like Thor Ragnarok and Infinity War.

[The Walrus]

I agree. However, let's not skip over the fact that you casually admitted to liking Thor 1 a lot. 

[Adami]

I agree. However, let's not skip over the fact that you casually admitted to liking Thor 1 a lot. 

Oh yea, I dig Thor. Hell, I even dig a decent amount of The Dark World. I just hated the villain and almost anything involving him.

But the first Thor ain't bad. It's just very very very small compared to what came later. It's not amazing, but it's enjoyable with lovely characters and a simple enough plot.

[jammindude]

Iron Man starts now....

[jammindude]

The chemistry between RDJ and Gwyneth is stunning.    She's a whack job IRL, but some of the subtleties of her performance and how perfectly she plays into Tony's character, and the way they talk over each other and her uncomfortable manor at the dance.   It's the little things that sometime make this movie brilliant. 

[jammindude]

Movie is over.  One thing that struck me this time is that, very much like The Matrix emulating anime, certain "frame shots" in this movie felt like a comic book panel, and I really thought it was a nice touch.   Before the MCU came along, "comic book movie" often came with a certain amount of camp tied to it.   But the comic books themselves were often far more dramatic and gripping that most of the movie going public was aware of.   I feel like the MCU, starting with Iron Man, tried to present honest comic book storytelling in movie form. 

A side note.   Seeing Captain Marvel last night made Coulson's ending statement of "this isn't my first rodeo" at the end of Iron Man far funnier than it would have been otherwise.   

A rewatch of The Incredible Hulk is in my near future.

[jammindude]

Different websites will put the next three movies in varying orders.  I think I've seen almost every sequence.  I even saw one today that went IM2/Thor/TIH.    But it seems most people tend to agree that the correct viewing order is TIH/IM2/Thor.   

It's been a few months since I've watched this one, but I've seen in 3 times I think now and all I remember is that each time I end up thinking "Why is this movie the red-headed step child of the MCU?"

[Adami]

Different websites will put the next three movies in varying orders.  I think I've seen almost every sequence.  I even saw one today that went IM2/Thor/TIH.    But it seems most people tend to agree that the correct viewing order is TIH/IM2/Thor.   

It's been a few months since I've watched this one, but I've seen in 3 times I think now and all I remember is that each time I end up thinking "Why is this movie the red-headed step child of the MCU?"

I would definitely agree with you on that correct order.

And hulk. I like the movie. Wish it wasn’t so ignored in the MCU.

[jammindude]

Taking a quick break to get some popcorn.

I was looking at the official "day to day" timeline at the MCU Wiki.   Interesting the way these events play out.   Apparently, these events are happening almost concurrently with IM2. 

Bruce's first "incident" about a half hour into the film apparently takes place one week after Tony's appearance before congress near the beginning of IM2.

[Adami]

Taking a quick break to get some popcorn.

I was looking at the official "day to day" timeline at the MCU Wiki.   Interesting the way these events play out.   Apparently, these events are happening almost concurrently with IM2. 

Bruce's first "incident" about a half hour into the film apparently takes place one week after Tony's appearance before congress near the beginning of IM2.

Yea there’s a scene in Iron Man II where parts of Hulk are being shown on the news in the background.

[jammindude]

That was a lot of fun.  Again.   

More so than the other films, this one spans over quite a bit of time.   That's probably what makes it hard to place.   Because according to the timeline, the Tony that walks into the bar to talk to Ross at the end is after the events of both IM2 and Thor.     So now I understand for the first time why this film moves around in the order so much.   Because the events are spread out and happening concurrently with the events not only from IM2, but with Thor also. 

Still, I like the placement of it here after the first Iron Man.   Because the events in the intro actually take place 5 years before Iron Man.   So with events that spread out so far across the timeline, it's a good spot to place it between the two Iron Man films. 

Iron Man 2 will be next.

[jingle.boy]

I always did like TIH... never understood the hate for it.

[The Walrus]

I always did like TIH... never understood the hate for it.

Ragnarok was a better Hulk film than either of the Hulk films imo! 

[jammindude]

Rum and cider......and Iron Man 2.

[jammindude]

"Don't think...drink."  - Tony Stark