Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[The Walrus]

Black Widow is one of the least compelling characters in the MCU to me, unfortunately, although I did like her role in Endgame a lot. I just really do not care about her as a character much. She's been there since Iron Man 2 and yet... I dunno. Never really felt like that much of a spy to me, her lack of accent (I get it, expert spy, turn on/off accents at will, but still), lack of any superpowers just doesn't allow her character to connect with me the way even someone like Nick Fury does.

All that to say I think the trailer looks cool and fun and makes the film look potentially similar to The Winter Soldier in terms of vibe and big action sequences. I like the new characters so far, David Harbour is an instant plus to me as a big Stranger Things fan, and that enormous action sequence toward the end of the trailer has me excited. Not sure if this film will be of much consequence in the big picture, but it's nice that Black Widow finally gets her own time in the spotlight even if it's after her story's been wrapped up.

[Orbert]

That's the part that really baffles me.  She's been around since Iron Man 2, she's been part of The Avengers (at least in the MCU) from the beginning, and we got origin stories from most of the major players as part of the buildup to Infinity War and Endgame.  Multiple movies for Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, even Ant-Man.  It seems to me that by not having a standalone Black Widow movie (until now) or Hawkeye movie, they are clearly "secondary" heroes in some eyes.  So now that that huge arc is over and we already know how it ends for her, now we get her origin story?  Talk about anti-climactic.

Part of it, I get.  Black Widow and Hawkeye do not have super powers.  They're not aliens like Thor, superpowered through other means like Captain America and Hulk, or even "somewhat" augmented like Spider-man.  But neither is Iron Man.  Stark is 100% mortal, regular human, just with amazing tech, and he was the lynchpin of the Avengers.  So being a "super hero" is not because you're actually super-powered compared to regular people.  It's...

I have no idea.  But I've never considered Black Widow or Hawkeye "super heroes".  Cool characters, good guys, heroes for sure, but not really in the same league as Iron Man or Captain America.  And from how they've been handled within the MCU, apparently others agree with me.

[hefdaddy42]

It's a Marvel film, so I am going to see it.

But since it is, I guess, a prequel of sorts (at the very least, set in time before her known demise), which is a bit of a turn off for me under any circumstances, it is definitely my least-looked-forward-to Marvel release thus far.

[Grappler]

It's a Marvel film, so I am going to see it.

But since it is, I guess, a prequel of sorts (at the very least, set in time before her known demise), which is a bit of a turn off for me under any circumstances, it is definitely my least-looked-forward-to Marvel release thus far.

I read that it's set after the events of Captain America: Civil War.  So it still ties in pretty closely with the Marvel timeline.

[bosk1]

Black Widow is one of the least compelling characters in the MCU to me

Same here.  When she was introduced in IM2, it was really cool because all the crossover stuff and allusions to a much larger Marvel universe was really just starting, and introduction of a character like her was part of that.  She was fantastic in Avengers as the spy/assassin who you didn't want to mess with.  And she was a great supporting character in The Winter Soldier.  But after that, I feel that as the MCU grew, it kind of outgrew her and made her less compelling in comparison.  She was still a perfectly good character, and very well played.  But with so many "upper-tier" characters in the MCU, the thought of her taking a starring role has just never really appealed to me.

[jingle.boy]

I see your points Bosk, but I'm the opposite.  I think the character is far more relatable, being "just" human with no super powers.  You say "upper tier" but you use it in the context to really mean "bigger super powers".  I'm totally fine with a storyline that is less about  "super" powers, and more about the characters themselves - that's largely what we got with Winter Soldier, right?  And that (for most) is a Top 3 / Top 5 MCU movie.  That's what I'm excited for about this movie.

And yeah, we're going to get a back-story of sorts - she is afterall, dead.  Doesn't make sense to have a movie about her in the "now".   

[The Walrus]

I think that's largely why I don't like Winter Soldier but I realize I'm in the minority. It feels more like a typical action beat 'em up flick and I'm not about that. I want superpowers! Superstrength is to superpowers what beige is to the color spectrum.

[Adami]

Doesn't make sense to have a movie about her in the "now".   

Hmmm, you don't want a 2 hour movie that is just a shot of her lying dead?


I think it could be done well. 

[bosk1]

I see your points Bosk, but I'm the opposite.  I think the character is far more relatable, being "just" human with no super powers.  You say "upper tier" but you use it in the context to really mean "bigger super powers". 

That's all fine.  But just to be clear, I am NOT referring simply to bigger super powers.  As Katt said, she just isn't all that compelling as a character.  Neither is Captain Marvel, and she has HUGE super powers.  Same with Hulk, actually.   I use "upper tier" to simply refer to characters that just have a bigger presence and depth that makes them more compelling and interesting. 

Hulk is an interesting example of how soft a concept this is.  I would consider him more of an "upper-tier"/"A-list" Avenger.  However, much like Black Widow, I don't find him to be all that compelling as a character on his own.  He's great in ensemble films in a supporting role.  But I, for one, have very little desire to see another Hulk solo movie.  Just not interesting to me.

[hefdaddy42]

It's a Marvel film, so I am going to see it.

But since it is, I guess, a prequel of sorts (at the very least, set in time before her known demise), which is a bit of a turn off for me under any circumstances, it is definitely my least-looked-forward-to Marvel release thus far.

I read that it's set after the events of Captain America: Civil War.  So it still ties in pretty closely with the Marvel timeline.

Yeah, but it's still in the past, and since we know what happens AFTER this story, I just won't be interested.  I generally don't like stories set in the past (prequels) if I know what happens afterward.  That's why I don't like shows like Gotham or Krypton (regardless of their production values or relative quality).  I just have no interest in that kind of story.  I want to know what happens NEXT, not BEFORE (flashbacks notwithstanding).

This isn't THAT drastic; I guess it's closer to, say, Indiana Jones & the Temple of Doom.  Which is my least favorite IJ film.

[Zook]

I hope this answers how her hair turned blonde.

[bosk1]

I hope this answers how her hair turned blonde.

*************SPOILERS**************

It's set after the events in Frozen.

[H2]

Maybe one part of the explanation of why I'm feeling kinda meh about the BW movie is that Phase 3 was just so good. The recent string of releases has been of much higher quality than the MCU in the early days, so much so that I feel that the MCU has set a new standard for itself. Since Civil War, almost every film has felt like an above-average Marvel movie. I guess there were a few films that were just OK (looking at you, Captain Marvel and Ant-Man 2), but those are the exception, not the rule. And then we were hit with Far From Home which is basically a Phase 4 movie that continued the trend of really good movies. So unless BW is good enough to be up to par with 'the new standard', it's going to feel like a disappointment. And going off of the trailer, it looks like it's not going to be good enough.

[King Postwhore]

I hope this answers how her hair turned blonde.

*************SPOILERS**************

It's set after the events in Frozen.

Let it go bosk1.

I'm with Hef.  Don't you want to see how she handles after they defeated Thanos?  I do. 

Of course like Hef stated, I'm still seeing it.

[lonestar]

And yeah, we're going to get a back-story of sorts - she is afterall, dead.  Doesn't make sense to have a movie about her in the "now".   

I was kind of hoping they'd go further back in the back story part and do a story on whatever the heck happened in Budapest.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Personally, I think Budapest should remain unseen. It's much more interesting and effective as a Noodle Incident than it would be if it were explicated.

[Adami]

Personally, I think Budapest should remain unseen. It's much more interesting and effective as a Noodle Incident than it would be if it were explicated.

I agree. Best case scenario is they show us and we say "Oh...fair enough."

Our imaginations are going to do a better job than whatever they could show us.

[gzarruk]

On the flip side, it's one of the most interesting things they could add to the film, imo.

[jammindude]

3rd episode of The Runaways.   I like it so far.

[The Walrus]

I watched Captain marvel twice this week, once with commentary and once without. I still love the character and LOVE Brie's portrayal of her. The little looks she gives with her eyes and the occasional dry smile make me feel ways. Okay, so I just have a crush on Brie Larson. But I still think the movie is super fun. 

[bosk1]

I enjoyed it on first viewing, but it doesn't have any repeat value for me at all.  That and a few storytelling missteps bring it to the bottom of the MCU catalog for me. 

[The Walrus]

I enjoyed it on first viewing, but it doesn't have any repeat value for me at all.  That and a few storytelling missteps bring it to the bottom of the MCU catalog for me.

I will say the whole origin story stuff makes it really hard for me to go back to many "entry" MCU films (Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Captain America, etc...), but there are a couple ensemble movies I don't replay either (Guardians 2, Avengers 2...). I chalk it up to Brie being fine as hell and Sam Jackson being funny. 

But I will say I don't think Marvel could release a film as boring or forgettable as The Incredible Hulk or the first two Thors...

[bosk1]

Like Captain Marvel, I really enjoyed Thor at the time, but saw it fade away in terms of replay value.  But where it considerably edges out Captain Marvel for me is in that, while it isn't the greatest story and may not have the greatest execution, it was incredibly important both in terms of setting up the coming together of the Avengers and setting the stage for the earth to be alerted to cosmic threats, AND in terms of Thor's overall, long-term character arc.  With both of those things as context, I enjoy it on the rare occasions I revisit it.  But that said, with all the quality films they have put out, I still put it down near the bottom.

I never had much of an issue with Thor 2.  I would easily put it above CM, GOTG2, the first Thor, Hulk, and possibly IM2 and Black Panther.

But you know, again coming back to CM, I guess the issue I have with it is that it feels lower tier and right at home with the films I just mentioned.  But unlike at least the phase 1 films on that list (and possibly GOTG2, although I think CM is a better overall film than that one), it doesn't have that important emotional character arc aspect going for it to elevate it a bit beyond itself.  At least, not yet.  But again, that isn't necessarily a "problem" for me either.  The MCU has, overall, been fantastic, and I have no problem with every single film not being five-star.

[Lonk]

I think one of the comments I heard about CM was that it would have been a great Phase 1 movie, that this movie could've been released right before Avengers 1 and still fit the story (and also avoid the confusion during the pots-credit of Infinity Ward when most of the audience had no idea what Fury did).

[Orbert]

My biggest problem with Captain Marvel (the movie) is that it just doesn't engage me.  I won't go as far as saying it's boring, but a lot of it seems to just be there, giving us backstory and glorious green-screen scenes that look really nice, but is just paint by numbers plot.  The initial misdirection with her and the Kree was interesting, and important.  But Yon-Rogg was weird.  I couldn't tell if he was just an asshole, or was testing her, or somehow was going to end up betraying her or something, and it turns out it was all of the above.  It doesn't help that I've never liked Jude Law.  Nothing against him, I suppose, but he's like the male equivalent of a pretty blonde who can't act worth shit, but looks so good that people just don't care.  His characters all feel the same to me.  I like Annette Bening a lot, and they managed to make her boring as well (still a babe tho).  The backstory stuff with Fury and Coulson was fun, and the twist with Talos, but when the best part of an origin story is the side stories, you have a problem.

[gmillerdrake]

My biggest problem with Captain Marvel (the movie) is that it just doesn't engage me.  I won't go as far as saying it's boring, but a lot of it seems to just be there, giving us backstory and glorious green-screen scenes that look really nice, but is just paint by numbers plot.  The initial misdirection with her and the Kree was interesting, and important.  But Yon-Rogg was weird.  I couldn't tell if he was just an asshole, or was testing her, or somehow was going to end up betraying her or something, and it turns out it was all of the above.  It doesn't help that I've never liked Jude Law.  Nothing against him, I suppose, but he's like the male equivalent of a pretty blonde who can't act worth shit, but looks so good that people just don't care.  His characters all feel the same to me.  I like Annette Bening a lot, and they managed to make her boring as well (still a babe tho).  The backstory stuff with Fury and Coulson was fun, and the twist with Talos, but when the best part of an origin story is the side stories, you have a problem.

Nailed it!!!! These are my sentiments exactly.

Were this to have been one of the first Marvel Movies released it would have fallen flat on it's face. The 'power' and recognition of all the other movies combined powered this one IMO. On it's own.....it's pretty blah....

[The Walrus]

I dunno guys, I think Captain Marvel is better than Captain America in almost every way. I can't stand the first Cap film, or the first Thor film (or its sequel), or any of the Hulk movies, and even Ant-Man's first film was meh to me, but Captain Marvel is a pretty good one... tastes!   

[hefdaddy42]

I can't stand the first Cap film

WTF

[Zook]

I just watched The first Captain America movie, and I still don't see the problem with it.

Although, It does have that really bad expository line by Bucky though, saying his own name.

[The Walrus]

I can't stand the first Cap film

WTF

Man, it just sucks, sorry dude. I don't like anything about it. Boring story and characters, ugly visuals, awful villain with terrible makeup. Only reason I can see any interest in it in hindsight is due to the Tesseract.

[Adami]

I just watched The first Captain America movie, and I still don't see the problem with it.

Although, It does have that really bad expository line by Bucky though, saying his own name.

My only real issue with it is that it's basically a bookmark movie. Great job becoming Cap, great job getting him into the ice (mostly) but they really skipped over the entire 1940's life of Cap. Based solely on the movie, he was Cap battling Nazis for like 3 weeks. I wanted more of that, I wanted to see him be an awesome Cap. Not sure they could have done that in one movie though, and they needed him in the present for the Avengers, but it felt like a lot of really cool stuff wasn't put in there for that reason.

[Adami]

I can't stand the first Cap film

WTF

Man, it just sucks, sorry dude. I don't like anything about it. Boring story and characters, ugly visuals, awful villain with terrible makeup. Only reason I can see any interest in it in hindsight is due to the Tesseract.

Okay Stadler.

[The Walrus]

Dude, I don't even like Winter Soldier. I know my takes are hot. 

[Adami]

Dude, I don't even like Winter Soldier. I know my takes are hot. 

Hotter than 90's Winona Ryder.

[Stadler]

I can't stand the first Cap film

WTF

Man, it just sucks, sorry dude. I don't like anything about it. Boring story and characters, ugly visuals, awful villain with terrible makeup. Only reason I can see any interest in it in hindsight is due to the Tesseract.

Okay Stadler.

WAIT, what?